Luke did let his emotions over run him temporarily in ROTJ when fighting Vader.
He also used a force choke, which is more synonymous with the dark side.
Naw he used the force to tickle the gamoreans under the chin, puts em to sleep everytime
Well, technically they were already sleepy because Luke had sent them a carton of warm blue milk as a care package, prior to his arrival. He just helped accelerate them falling asleep.
I am SO EXCITED for The Last Jedi. I can't wait! It comes out 5 days after my birthday so that's even more exciting. What is everyone hoping to see in it?
I am SO EXCITED for The Last Jedi. I can't wait! It comes out 5 days after my birthday so that's even more exciting. What is everyone hoping to see in it?
I am SO EXCITED for The Last Jedi. I can't wait! It comes out 5 days after my birthday so that's even more exciting. What is everyone hoping to see in it?
The chosen one was supposed to bring balance to the force. There were 2 sith and hundreds of jedi. By ANH there were 2 sith, and 2 jedi, yoda and ben. So in a way anakin did bring balance. But also Yoda says the prophecy could have been misread. In rebels, *spoiler* Old Ben refers to Luke as the chosen one. So I can't wait to see if luke is in fact the actual chosen one to bring balance to the force again, perhaps by ending the jedi he hopes to end the sith as well.
According to the Jedi - Anakin failed to bring balance, so look to Luke as their new chosen one. Anakin was the chosen one and indeed did bring balance.
True balance in the force I take it as use of dark & light as one entity rather than to individual factions. So although Luke is not directly the chosen one he is the product of the chosen one's action in life - through Luke perhaps the prophecy of balance is still at work which is why he trains Rey in both light and dark.
How do you know Luke trains Rey in both light and dark?
I guess no one is 100% sure, but in the trailer he asks what she sees in the force and her response if light and dark. He then shows her some old manuscript/tome in the jedi temple that shows light and dark in it.
He then says its time for the jedi to end.
In return of the jedi - like sith he used his emotions. It was the emotional love and attachment to his father that redeemed Anakin - something the jedi could not comprehend. He used passion and emotion for good, so use of the dark for good is not evil.
This is also all reflected in the storyline in Star Wars Rebels. It is pretty clear that Disney is taking us on a journey to experience a new side of the force we have not yet seen.
I'm sorry Boo but I'm not buying it. It's an interesting theory but your assumptions are based on the teaser for TLJ. We don't know the context of anything in the teaser. We don't know why Luke said the Jedi must end. We don't know if Luke is showing Rey those old manuscripts. We don't know if they are in a temple. And we don't know what content from the teaser will actually even be in TLJ.
Return of the Jedi:
Luke did not use his emotions like a sith and he did not use the dark for good. In star wars emotion and attachment are not synonymous for dark side.
Rebels:
Can you show me where you see this mixing of light and dark in Rebels? I haven't seen it yet. Ezra is not commended for using the dark side and we see him abandon it and his connection with Maul. Maul himself was all dark side. The Bendu is not grey but indifferent and ambiguous.
Disney may yet change our understanding of the force but up till now I don't think there is any grey in star wars.
You could be right about presumptions (not just of me, but a lot of people), some of what is in the trailer may not make the final cut - we saw this with Rogue One. But such a powerful statement made by the hero Luke Skywalker that the Jedi must end - is too powerful a statement to be "trailer only".
Return of the Jedi - Luke uses his anger to defeat Vader. He then used his connection and "emotion" to redeem vader. Like I said this is something the Jedi could not have had the knowledge to hope for. They believe in peace and serenity, clear thinking - emotions cloud thoughts and the sith rely on their emotions and passions to achieve their goals through the force.
Rebels - Bendu is quite clearly grey - he talks of light and dark and then goes on to say he is the one in the middle...the Bendu. Also his name cannot be a coincidence as in Legends the Dai Bendu were force users - not light or dark, but simple monks of the force that eventually founded the Jedi Order, or Jedaii Order it was then called. They were essentially grey Jedi.
In order to have ultimate power and knowledge, Maul and Ezra needed to work together (dark and light) and connect the Sith and Jedi Holocrons together as the absolute knowledge was only obtainable through Light & Dark working together.
These are strong themes introduced and the Rebels is not yet over so there may be more. It is also, therefore, not a coincidence that Disney seems to be going in this grey or light/dark path for the force and also not a coincidence that this is strongly implied in the trailer for the last jedi.
I'm excited, yet cautious. It's Star Wars, but Rian Johnson being able to do anything he wants scares me. Like his reasoning for moving Kylo Ren's scar was basically "I wanted to".
#CloneHelmets4Life...VICTORY!!!! "I don't like sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere." The more you tighten your grip, CG/EA, the more whales will slip through your fingers (and go F2P or quit).
The chosen one was supposed to bring balance to the force. There were 2 sith and hundreds of jedi. By ANH there were 2 sith, and 2 jedi, yoda and ben. So in a way anakin did bring balance. But also Yoda says the prophecy could have been misread. In rebels, *spoiler* Old Ben refers to Luke as the chosen one. So I can't wait to see if luke is in fact the actual chosen one to bring balance to the force again, perhaps by ending the jedi he hopes to end the sith as well.
According to the Jedi - Anakin failed to bring balance, so look to Luke as their new chosen one. Anakin was the chosen one and indeed did bring balance.
True balance in the force I take it as use of dark & light as one entity rather than to individual factions. So although Luke is not directly the chosen one he is the product of the chosen one's action in life - through Luke perhaps the prophecy of balance is still at work which is why he trains Rey in both light and dark.
How do you know Luke trains Rey in both light and dark?
I guess no one is 100% sure, but in the trailer he asks what she sees in the force and her response if light and dark. He then shows her some old manuscript/tome in the jedi temple that shows light and dark in it.
He then says its time for the jedi to end.
In return of the jedi - like sith he used his emotions. It was the emotional love and attachment to his father that redeemed Anakin - something the jedi could not comprehend. He used passion and emotion for good, so use of the dark for good is not evil.
This is also all reflected in the storyline in Star Wars Rebels. It is pretty clear that Disney is taking us on a journey to experience a new side of the force we have not yet seen.
I'm sorry Boo but I'm not buying it. It's an interesting theory but your assumptions are based on the teaser for TLJ. We don't know the context of anything in the teaser. We don't know why Luke said the Jedi must end. We don't know if Luke is showing Rey those old manuscripts. We don't know if they are in a temple. And we don't know what content from the teaser will actually even be in TLJ.
Return of the Jedi:
Luke did not use his emotions like a sith and he did not use the dark for good. In star wars emotion and attachment are not synonymous for dark side.
Rebels:
Can you show me where you see this mixing of light and dark in Rebels? I haven't seen it yet. Ezra is not commended for using the dark side and we see him abandon it and his connection with Maul. Maul himself was all dark side. The Bendu is not grey but indifferent and ambiguous.
Disney may yet change our understanding of the force but up till now I don't think there is any grey in star wars.
You could be right about presumptions (not just of me, but a lot of people), some of what is in the trailer may not make the final cut - we saw this with Rogue One. But such a powerful statement made by the hero Luke Skywalker that the Jedi must end - is too powerful a statement to be "trailer only".
Return of the Jedi - Luke uses his anger to defeat Vader. He then used his connection and "emotion" to redeem vader. Like I said this is something the Jedi could not have had the knowledge to hope for. They believe in peace and serenity, clear thinking - emotions cloud thoughts and the sith rely on their emotions and passions to achieve their goals through the force.
Rebels - Bendu is quite clearly grey - he talks of light and dark and then goes on to say he is the one in the middle...the Bendu. Also his name cannot be a coincidence as in Legends the Dai Bendu were force users - not light or dark, but simple monks of the force that eventually founded the Jedi Order, or Jedaii Order it was then called. They were essentially grey Jedi.
In order to have ultimate power and knowledge, Maul and Ezra needed to work together (dark and light) and connect the Sith and Jedi Holocrons together as the absolute knowledge was only obtainable through Light & Dark working together.
These are strong themes introduced and the Rebels is not yet over so there may be more. It is also, therefore, not a coincidence that Disney seems to be going in this grey or light/dark path for the force and also not a coincidence that this is strongly implied in the trailer for the last jedi.
I agree with you about Luke's line in the teaser. I think it's a good bet it will be in the trailer. I can't wait to see what he means and why he says it. My guess for now is that we will find Luke disenfranchised and unwilling to to get involved until Rey changes his mind. I think that may be the context for his statement but I could be wrong.
I also agree with you about Maul and Ezra in Rebels. What I was trying to say is that Rebels was not presenting "grey" as an achievable or wanted category in star wars. Maul and Ezra were like oil and water -- and that's what it's like when you try and mix the light side and the dark side. It will not work. It can't work. They are diametrically opposite one to another and it is not a category presented as something that is good.
Luke was the hero in ROTJ not because he used the dark and the light but because he resisted the emperors temptation to give into his hatred and kill his father and he resisted the bad advice of yoda and kenobi. Instead he chose love -- the very thing neither the sith comprehend nor the jedi adhere to. This made Luke different from the old jedi and the sith, but he was still 100% light side.
One more thing...be carefull with what characters say. For example, the emperor told Anakin that if he turned to the dark side he would learn how to save his wife. And Kenobi told Anakin that only sith deal in absolutes. Both of these statements were false but the characters said them as if they wanted you to believe them right? Well just because the Bendu appears to be wise and tells us that he is the one in the middle neither light nor dark, does this mean we should believe him? I don't think so if you look at all he did and said in Rebels. Honestly he doesn't come across in the end as "grey" but just simply annoyed of the new conflict our characters brought this his world, and more specifically his sleep. Even though he helped Kanan and Ezra, the Bendu seems to remain mysterious on purpose. He is just a force sensitive character that is indifferent to either our heroes or the empire and just wants to go back to bed
The chosen one was supposed to bring balance to the force. There were 2 sith and hundreds of jedi. By ANH there were 2 sith, and 2 jedi, yoda and ben. So in a way anakin did bring balance. But also Yoda says the prophecy could have been misread. In rebels, *spoiler* Old Ben refers to Luke as the chosen one. So I can't wait to see if luke is in fact the actual chosen one to bring balance to the force again, perhaps by ending the jedi he hopes to end the sith as well.
According to the Jedi - Anakin failed to bring balance, so look to Luke as their new chosen one. Anakin was the chosen one and indeed did bring balance.
True balance in the force I take it as use of dark & light as one entity rather than to individual factions. So although Luke is not directly the chosen one he is the product of the chosen one's action in life - through Luke perhaps the prophecy of balance is still at work which is why he trains Rey in both light and dark.
How do you know Luke trains Rey in both light and dark?
I guess no one is 100% sure, but in the trailer he asks what she sees in the force and her response if light and dark. He then shows her some old manuscript/tome in the jedi temple that shows light and dark in it.
He then says its time for the jedi to end.
In return of the jedi - like sith he used his emotions. It was the emotional love and attachment to his father that redeemed Anakin - something the jedi could not comprehend. He used passion and emotion for good, so use of the dark for good is not evil.
This is also all reflected in the storyline in Star Wars Rebels. It is pretty clear that Disney is taking us on a journey to experience a new side of the force we have not yet seen.
I'm sorry Boo but I'm not buying it. It's an interesting theory but your assumptions are based on the teaser for TLJ. We don't know the context of anything in the teaser. We don't know why Luke said the Jedi must end. We don't know if Luke is showing Rey those old manuscripts. We don't know if they are in a temple. And we don't know what content from the teaser will actually even be in TLJ.
Return of the Jedi:
Luke did not use his emotions like a sith and he did not use the dark for good. In star wars emotion and attachment are not synonymous for dark side.
Rebels:
Can you show me where you see this mixing of light and dark in Rebels? I haven't seen it yet. Ezra is not commended for using the dark side and we see him abandon it and his connection with Maul. Maul himself was all dark side. The Bendu is not grey but indifferent and ambiguous.
Disney may yet change our understanding of the force but up till now I don't think there is any grey in star wars.
You could be right about presumptions (not just of me, but a lot of people), some of what is in the trailer may not make the final cut - we saw this with Rogue One. But such a powerful statement made by the hero Luke Skywalker that the Jedi must end - is too powerful a statement to be "trailer only".
Return of the Jedi - Luke uses his anger to defeat Vader. He then used his connection and "emotion" to redeem vader. Like I said this is something the Jedi could not have had the knowledge to hope for. They believe in peace and serenity, clear thinking - emotions cloud thoughts and the sith rely on their emotions and passions to achieve their goals through the force.
Rebels - Bendu is quite clearly grey - he talks of light and dark and then goes on to say he is the one in the middle...the Bendu. Also his name cannot be a coincidence as in Legends the Dai Bendu were force users - not light or dark, but simple monks of the force that eventually founded the Jedi Order, or Jedaii Order it was then called. They were essentially grey Jedi.
In order to have ultimate power and knowledge, Maul and Ezra needed to work together (dark and light) and connect the Sith and Jedi Holocrons together as the absolute knowledge was only obtainable through Light & Dark working together.
These are strong themes introduced and the Rebels is not yet over so there may be more. It is also, therefore, not a coincidence that Disney seems to be going in this grey or light/dark path for the force and also not a coincidence that this is strongly implied in the trailer for the last jedi.
I agree with you about Luke's line in the teaser. I think it's a good bet it will be in the trailer. I can't wait to see what he means and why he says it. My guess for now is that we will find Luke disenfranchised and unwilling to to get involved until Rey changes his mind. I think that may be the context for his statement but I could be wrong.
I also agree with you about Maul and Ezra in Rebels. What I was trying to say is that Rebels was not presenting "grey" as an achievable or wanted category in star wars. Maul and Ezra were like oil and water -- and that's what it's like when you try and mix the light side and the dark side. It will not work. It can't work. They are diametrically opposite one to another and it is not a category presented as something that is good.
Luke was the hero in ROTJ not because he used the dark and the light but because he resisted the emperors temptation to give into his hatred and kill his father and he resisted the bad advice of yoda and kenobi. Instead he chose love -- the very thing neither the sith comprehend nor the jedi adhere to. This made Luke different from the old jedi and the sith, but he was still 100% light side.
One more thing...be carefull with what characters say. For example, the emperor told Anakin that if he turned to the dark side he would learn how to save his wife. And Kenobi told Anakin that only sith deal in absolutes. Both of these statements were false but the characters said them as if they wanted you to believe them right? Well just because the Bendu appears to be wise and tells us that he is the one in the middle neither light nor dark, does this mean we should believe him? I don't think so if you look at all he did and said in Rebels. Honestly he doesn't come across in the end as "grey" but just simply annoyed of the new conflict our characters brought this his world, and more specifically his sleep. Even though he helped Kanan and Ezra, the Bendu seems to remain mysterious on purpose. He is just a force sensitive character that is indifferent to either our heroes or the empire and just wants to go back to bed
Sure, but what I am saying is Luke in ROTJ resisted the temptation of going to the darkside, he also resisted the bad advise given by Yoda and Ben to kill vader and chose love - like you say.
What I am saying is this does make him different from Jedi of the past (like you have said) but he did use his anger to defeat Vader in combat, he also force choked Jabba's guards - he is able to rely on his passions and use aspects of the darkside, but does not allow that to corrupt him.
If dark and light is like oil and water as you say (because that is what we have been shown thus far about the force, Jedi and Sith), perhaps Luke, in his solitary hiding, has reflected on the force and found the right balance.
Sidious himself told Anakin that to be wise and powerful he was to embrace a larger view of the force (the dark side he was offering to teach as well as Anakin's existing knowledge of the light/Jedi).
Bendu was very much the one in the middle as he said, not being bothered with conflict but had the power of the darkside and wise knowledge of the light - he just chose to do nothing with it.
Perhaps now as the ST is yet another generation down the line, the thought of dark/light, grey, Bendu, one in the middle whatever you want to call it has been evolved by Luke.
Perhaps now there will truly be "balance" in the force?
Replies
Naw he used the force to tickle the gamoreans under the chin, puts em to sleep everytime
Well, technically they were already sleepy because Luke had sent them a carton of warm blue milk as a care package, prior to his arrival. He just helped accelerate them falling asleep.
Rey in Leia slave girl outfit!
My eyes! My eyes!
You could be right about presumptions (not just of me, but a lot of people), some of what is in the trailer may not make the final cut - we saw this with Rogue One. But such a powerful statement made by the hero Luke Skywalker that the Jedi must end - is too powerful a statement to be "trailer only".
Return of the Jedi - Luke uses his anger to defeat Vader. He then used his connection and "emotion" to redeem vader. Like I said this is something the Jedi could not have had the knowledge to hope for. They believe in peace and serenity, clear thinking - emotions cloud thoughts and the sith rely on their emotions and passions to achieve their goals through the force.
Rebels - Bendu is quite clearly grey - he talks of light and dark and then goes on to say he is the one in the middle...the Bendu. Also his name cannot be a coincidence as in Legends the Dai Bendu were force users - not light or dark, but simple monks of the force that eventually founded the Jedi Order, or Jedaii Order it was then called. They were essentially grey Jedi.
In order to have ultimate power and knowledge, Maul and Ezra needed to work together (dark and light) and connect the Sith and Jedi Holocrons together as the absolute knowledge was only obtainable through Light & Dark working together.
These are strong themes introduced and the Rebels is not yet over so there may be more. It is also, therefore, not a coincidence that Disney seems to be going in this grey or light/dark path for the force and also not a coincidence that this is strongly implied in the trailer for the last jedi.
I agree with you about Luke's line in the teaser. I think it's a good bet it will be in the trailer. I can't wait to see what he means and why he says it. My guess for now is that we will find Luke disenfranchised and unwilling to to get involved until Rey changes his mind. I think that may be the context for his statement but I could be wrong.
I also agree with you about Maul and Ezra in Rebels. What I was trying to say is that Rebels was not presenting "grey" as an achievable or wanted category in star wars. Maul and Ezra were like oil and water -- and that's what it's like when you try and mix the light side and the dark side. It will not work. It can't work. They are diametrically opposite one to another and it is not a category presented as something that is good.
Luke was the hero in ROTJ not because he used the dark and the light but because he resisted the emperors temptation to give into his hatred and kill his father and he resisted the bad advice of yoda and kenobi. Instead he chose love -- the very thing neither the sith comprehend nor the jedi adhere to. This made Luke different from the old jedi and the sith, but he was still 100% light side.
One more thing...be carefull with what characters say. For example, the emperor told Anakin that if he turned to the dark side he would learn how to save his wife. And Kenobi told Anakin that only sith deal in absolutes. Both of these statements were false but the characters said them as if they wanted you to believe them right? Well just because the Bendu appears to be wise and tells us that he is the one in the middle neither light nor dark, does this mean we should believe him? I don't think so if you look at all he did and said in Rebels. Honestly he doesn't come across in the end as "grey" but just simply annoyed of the new conflict our characters brought this his world, and more specifically his sleep. Even though he helped Kanan and Ezra, the Bendu seems to remain mysterious on purpose. He is just a force sensitive character that is indifferent to either our heroes or the empire and just wants to go back to bed
Sure, but what I am saying is Luke in ROTJ resisted the temptation of going to the darkside, he also resisted the bad advise given by Yoda and Ben to kill vader and chose love - like you say.
What I am saying is this does make him different from Jedi of the past (like you have said) but he did use his anger to defeat Vader in combat, he also force choked Jabba's guards - he is able to rely on his passions and use aspects of the darkside, but does not allow that to corrupt him.
If dark and light is like oil and water as you say (because that is what we have been shown thus far about the force, Jedi and Sith), perhaps Luke, in his solitary hiding, has reflected on the force and found the right balance.
Sidious himself told Anakin that to be wise and powerful he was to embrace a larger view of the force (the dark side he was offering to teach as well as Anakin's existing knowledge of the light/Jedi).
Bendu was very much the one in the middle as he said, not being bothered with conflict but had the power of the darkside and wise knowledge of the light - he just chose to do nothing with it.
Perhaps now as the ST is yet another generation down the line, the thought of dark/light, grey, Bendu, one in the middle whatever you want to call it has been evolved by Luke.
Perhaps now there will truly be "balance" in the force?