Why Asajj Ventress is not a Sith?

Ecormed

I just was wondering why the Sith Asajj Ventress is not a sith in this game, as you can read in his profile she is only NightSister and a Support, but is not a Sith! This issue could be relevant in the future: (5 siths needed for Palpatine event). Why do you think about it?

Alexadhauz

Well... don't want to ruin this for you, but you should watch Clone wars the series to find out why

Achilles

The Rule of two ... thats why she never was a Sith.

SamSausagehead

Achilles wrote: »

The Rule of two ... thats why she never was a Sith.

Lol but dooku is considered a sith and he was never a padawan to sidious.

Aggropox

Dooku was absolutely an apprentice of Sidious.

Achilles

Darth Sidious was Darth Plagues apprentice (Two)
Darth Maul was Darth Sidious apprentice (after Sidious killed Plagues - two)
Count Dooku was Darth Sidious apprentice (while he thought, that Maul was dead - two)
Savage Opress was Darth Maul's apprentice, at the same time, when Count Dooku still was Darth Sidious apprentice - they were rivals now, 1 couple has to die ... Darth Sidious attacked them both, killed Savage and took Maul as prisoner (Dooku still his apprentice - the rule of two was restored)
Dooku died and Darth Vader became Sid's new apprentice (two) ... i just dont know, what happened to Darth Maul.

Asajj Ventress was just an assassin, working for Dooku, who got the order to kill her, when she became to powerful in force.

(At least, that's how i understood the story )

CPMP

Achilles wrote: »

Darth Sidious was Darth Plagues apprentice (Two)
Darth Maul was Darth Sidious apprentice (after Sidious killed Plagues - two)
Count Dooku was Darth Sidious apprentice (while he thought, that Maul was dead - two)
Savage Opress was Darth Maul's apprentice, at the same time, when Count Dooku still was Darth Sidious apprentice - they were rivals now, 1 couple has to die ... Darth Sidious attacked them both, killed Savage and took Maul as prisoner (Dooku still his apprentice - the rule of two was restored)
Dooku died and Darth Vader became Sid's new apprentice (two) ... i just dont know, what happened to Darth Maul.

Asajj Ventress was just an assassin, working for Dooku, who got the order to kill her, when she became to powerful in force.

(At least, that's how i understood the story )

Is the rule of two still canon now that Disney took over?

fleurdelis3

Is the rule of two still canon now that Disney took over?[/quote]

Yes, because it's been mentioned in canon twice now. When Disney took over, they said movies were still canon. This, when Yoda says in Episode I, "Always 2 there are. A master, and an apprentice." It is canon. Further, Disney also restated it in the Clone Wars series when Yoda sees the ghost of Darth Bane. Bane asks, "Do you know who I am?" And Yoda replies, "Darth Bane, creator of the rule of two you are."

Robobob

The only Sith to exist in the new canon so far are: Darth Bane, Darth Plaqueis, Darth Sidious, Darth Maul, Darth Tyranus, Darth Vader.
Ventress and Oppress are considered Dark Jedi as are the Inquisitors.
Barriss Offee and Pong Krell are fallen Jedi.
As for Snoke and Kylo Ren. I'm not sure if the Knights of Ren are a new darkside faction or if they are fallen Jedi or what. Hopefully we find out in Episode VIII.

Achilles

Robobob wrote: »

The only Sith to exist in the new canon so far are: Darth Bane, Darth Plaqueis, Darth Sidious, Darth Maul, Darth Tyranus, Darth Vader.
Ventress and Oppress are considered Dark Jedi as are the Inquisitors.
Barriss Offee and Pong Krell are fallen Jedi.
As for Snoke and Kylo Ren. I'm not sure if the Knights of Ren are a new darkside faction or if they are fallen Jedi or what. Hopefully we find out in Episode VIII.

Oh, ic, and what "is" Ahsoka? She was a jedi, got booted and reinvited to the jedi-order but refused. ? So, she is no Jedi, but also no Dark Jedi ... she is? Just a force sensitive Togruta?

EDIT: Oh sorry, true ... Count Dooku never was a Sith, because his sith-name was Darth Tyranus. You are right.

Sonofnoob

Sith were an actual race and there were far more then just 2. Not mention that the Sith empire was full of Sith. So I don't see the point of not saying she isnt Sith. She was under then command of a Sith apprentice and was strong in force and Sith training.
It looks like a duck, sounds like duck, it must be a duck

Nutteralex

Sonofnoob wrote: »

Sith were an actual race and there were far more then just 2. Not mention that the Sith empire was full of Sith. So I don't see the point of not saying she isnt Sith. She was under then command of a Sith apprentice and was strong in force and Sith training.
It looks like a duck, sounds like duck, it must be a duck

Dark side force users =/= Sith.

Conor

What about darth revan, one of the stongest siths, self taught

Ecormed

Alexadhauz wrote: »

Well... don't want to ruin this for you, but you should watch Clone wars the series to find out why

Ive already seen the whole serie, And right now Im Watching Rebels. One thing, If Savage Opress and Darth Maul are Siths in this game, why Ventress isnt? If there's a Palpatine event, I believe they should consider Dark side sensitive characters: Siths and NightSisters together, or maybe Imperial synergy could be so sweet.

Robobob

Well, Savage Opress is a tricky one. He was created by Assajj and the nightsisters to infilitrate Dooku and pretend to be his apprentice so they could kill Dooku. Then Savage went rogue and found his brother Maul. Even though Darth Maul is no longer a true Sith, he still considers himself one and therefore he believes his apprentice, Savage, is one too. But, if you follow the Sith teachings than there can only be 2. When Sidious started training another apprentice in Tyranus, Maul was no longer a Sith, therefore his apprentice couldn't be one too.

Back to Assajj, she was never really trained as Dooku's apprentice. She was one of his many "acolytes" but when Sidious sensed that she was getting too strong he ordered Dooku to kill her.. in which he obeyed and tried.

In my opinion, an apprentice of an apprentice can never be a Sith until his/her master kills the true Sith Master. See what I'm saying? LOL The idea of a Sith apprentice is that once they become powerful enough they kill their master and become the new Sith Master and their acolyte or apprentice (if they have one) becomes a full Sith Apprentice. And the cycle continues.

Confusing, I know.

Deimos

In the words of Count Dooku to her:

You are not a Sith. You lack a vital quality. Sith have no fear. And I sense great fear in you...

Robobob

Achilles wrote: »

Oh, ic, and what "is" Ahsoka? She was a jedi, got booted and reinvited to the jedi-order but refused. ? So, she is no Jedi, but also no Dark Jedi ... she is? Just a force sensitive Togruta?

Ahsoka, might be considered one of the few Lost Jedi who were Jedi that resigned from the Order. Dooku was considered a Lost Jedi when he resigned after the death of Qui-Gon Jinn.

Puglio

Ahsoka never officially became a jedi, yet she is flagged as jedi because she is a force user allied with the "Jedi" group. Ventress is a force user allied with the "Sith" group. That's why I think she should be Sith.
But if you want to be a stickler, the canon is inconsistent.
Starwars.com says Ventress is not true Sith because of the Rule of 2.
http://www.starwars.com/databank/asajj-ventress
But they also call Savage Oppress and Darth Maul Sith.
http://www.starwars.com/databank/savage-opress
http://www.starwars.com/databank/darth-maul
But under the Rule of 2, Savage Oppress cannot be Sith. Yes, he was trained by Darth Maul, a former Sith apprentice. But Maul's master was still alive and had a new apprentice, Count Dooku.
So either Ventress should be Sith because she is a dark side force user working with the Sith, or Oppress should not be Sith because it's against the rules. One of them is bugged. Personally I would prefer Ventress be made Sith.

Conor

Savage oppress killed his brother( not darth maul) that might give him sith status I'm not shure tho

Nutteralex

Savage could be considered Sith if mail truly considered himself the new Sith master. He was trained to be a Sith, was a Sith, and knew the Sith rules.

Sonofnoob

This conversation is all well and good but the Devs seem to do what they want cause with HK-47 in the game they are pulling from the games which say the rule of two is bogus as in the era of the old republic there are many Sith.

Robobob

These are all mostly my opinions but:
Maul was no longer a Sith because he failed to kill his master to become the new Sith Master. He may call himself a Sith, but he was no longer one. When confronted by the true Sith Master Sidious.. Palpatine defeated him swiftly and put an end to that. If Maul was no longer a Sith, Savage can never be a Sith.
And Ahsoka is most definitely a Jedi as she is a member of the Jedi Order. Though never became a Jedi Knight she was a Jedi Padawan. Still 100% a Jedi.
And HK-47 is still not officially canon and considered part of the Legends continuity. Makes me hopeful that we will see other Legends characters in the game someday: Revan, Kyle Katarn, Mara Jade. I would lose my ****!. hehe

Puglio

Robobob wrote: »

These are all mostly my opinions but:
Maul was no longer a Sith because he failed to kill his master to become the new Sith Master. He may call himself a Sith, but he was no longer one. When confronted by the true Sith Master Sidious.. Palpatine defeated him swiftly and put an end to that. If Maul was no longer a Sith, Savage can never be a Sith.
And Ahsoka is most definitely a Jedi as she is a member of the Jedi Order. Though never became a Jedi Knight she was a Jedi Padawan. Still 100% a Jedi.
And HK-47 is still not officially canon and considered part of the Legends continuity. Makes me hopeful that we will see other Legends characters in the game someday: Revan, Kyle Katarn, Mara Jade. I would lose my ****!. hehe

Know how I know you didn't finish Clone Wars?

Tuscan21

I think Ezra is a sith.....

Triqui

CPMP wrote: »

Achilles wrote: »

Darth Sidious was Darth Plagues apprentice (Two)
Darth Maul was Darth Sidious apprentice (after Sidious killed Plagues - two)
Count Dooku was Darth Sidious apprentice (while he thought, that Maul was dead - two)
Savage Opress was Darth Maul's apprentice, at the same time, when Count Dooku still was Darth Sidious apprentice - they were rivals now, 1 couple has to die ... Darth Sidious attacked them both, killed Savage and took Maul as prisoner (Dooku still his apprentice - the rule of two was restored)
Dooku died and Darth Vader became Sid's new apprentice (two) ... i just dont know, what happened to Darth Maul.

Asajj Ventress was just an assassin, working for Dooku, who got the order to kill her, when she became to powerful in force.

(At least, that's how i understood the story )

Is the rule of two still canon now that Disney took over?

Yes

Primolandia

I thought Ventress was Dooku's apprentice? Dark Disciple gives that whole backstory.

It's all so confusing now that so many of the novels have been thrown out the window. I always Sith were a race of people, but apparently it's now a label that can be easily co-opted?

Triqui

Robobob wrote: »

These are all mostly my opinions but:
Maul was no longer a Sith because he failed to kill his master to become the new Sith Master. He may call himself a Sith, but he was no longer one. When confronted by the true Sith Master Sidious.. Palpatine defeated him swiftly and put an end to that. If Maul was no longer a Sith, Savage can never be a Sith.
And Ahsoka is most definitely a Jedi as she is a member of the Jedi Order. Though never became a Jedi Knight she was a Jedi Padawan. Still 100% a Jedi.
And HK-47 is still not officially canon and considered part of the Legends continuity. Makes me hopeful that we will see other Legends characters in the game someday: Revan, Kyle Katarn, Mara Jade. I would lose my ****!. hehe

HK47 re-appears 4000 years later as a Droid general and master, in planet Mustafar. Pretty much that one is the version we got. Hence his droid leadership, instead of assassin type skills

Triqui

Primolandia wrote: »

I thought Ventress was Dooku's apprentice? Dark Disciple gives that whole backstory.

It's all so confusing now that so many of the novels have been thrown out the window. I always Sith were a race of people, but apparently it's now a label that can be easily co-opted?

She was. But in theory was trained as an assassin, not as Sith. When Darth Sidious felt that she grew too much in power, demsnded Darth Tyranus to kill her, because of the Rule of Two.
When he discovered Dsrth Maul was alive and had an Apprentice he hunted him too.

Assajj never got her "Darth" treatment, unlike Maul and Tyrannus (Dooku)

2scars

Referring to Ahsoka: those who are jedi but don't follow the rules of the jedi order are called Gray Jedi.

Achilles

Im not even sure, if its right to call Asajj a "Dark Jedi" ... at the end of Clone Wars Series, she was saving Obi Wans life when he tried to kill Maul. She helped Ahsoka, when she tried to find the traitor. And while Asajj as doing her bounty hunter job, she freed a lil girl, which should get forced married ...

IMO Asajj is so special, she deserves its own category ... "Grey Side" (she can act in Dark as well as in Light missions), should get synergies to Nightsisters, Siths, Jedis, Scoundrels and even Droids (since the was a commander for a while, just like General Grievous was)! (kk, im kidding ... but still, she is pretty, pretty, real special!!

Robobob

Remember Ventress started out as a Jedi until her master was killed then she went bad for a very very long time. Towards the end of the Clone Wars she started to see herself redeemed. I would still consider her a Dark Jedi most of her life. Just like Darth Vader was a Sith Lord most of his.

Gray Jedi: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Gray_Jedi
Though this definition might not be canon anymore.
Qui-Gon Jinn was described as a Gray Jedi as he often didn't follow the rules of the Jedi Order.
@Achilles Yes Ventress is a cool character and it's too bad she wasn't used in the prequels. Would have been nice to see her on the big screen.