Are speed mods the best set for . . . everybody?

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So I took a few minutes to look at my arena shard's leaderboard and check out the mods on the top teams.

Pretty much every character has a speed set.

Normally, I go to gaming-fans or couching rancor or YouTube and check out recommended sets for toons. Attackers usually get cd/cc combo, tanks sometimes get health or defense, etc.

But when I look at top arena teams, none of that happens. It's just speed. On everyone. Every role.

So is it now the case that pretty much every toon on your arena team now needs a speed set (with insane speed secondaries)?

Replies

  • Kyno
    19337 posts Moderator
    Yes and no. At top arena spots every bit can matter. You can get what equates to 1 decent mod with of secondary speed about 12-15 from a speed set.

    If it helps you win more then sure, but a good crit damage set would probably be a wash if you have good speed secondaries.

    The real choice comes do you want to farm 3 different sets and hope to get the right combo of farm 1 set and at the end be able to make up th lacking secondary with the set bonus.
  • The AI is pretty bad, so the more actions you take the more chances you give the AI to accidentally do something right.
    Ceterum censeo Patientia esse meliat.
  • Speed wins. A speed sets gives +10% speed, so obviously heroes with higher base speeds benefit more, but this boost is somewhere between +9 (for Baze) to +17 (for TFP) extra. In my world, my best secondary is +16, so that is equal to a whole extra secondary. That is a significant boost.

    End goal is a speed set on everybody, if you can get the right primaries & secondaries on the rest.
  • For the arena possibly you could mod everyone with speed sets, but I would disagree for the rest of the game. Some tanks (like Baze) you want slow, and other mod sets would help them in other ways. Think Health sets on baze when paired with chirrut. Give him more health so that he gives chirrut more health and heals more with each heal over time. Plus he has a larger health pool to get him to his turn when he will heal a huge chunk of his health... The faster baze is, the faster he loses taunt and retribution...

    But for many characters, speed is one of the most important factors to consider in the arena specifically.
  • Off the top of my head, characters that (in my opinion) don't need speed:

    Baze
    Royal Guard
    B2 droid

    Everyone else needs speed. And lots of it.
  • TVF
    9359 posts Member
    Since I don't use Resistance in Arena, I'd rather have potency on them than speed.
  • Everybody is better with speed. As much speed as you can get. Even RG (stuns are always nice).

    You could make a weak argument for 2 health sets (+10%) on Baze instead of 1 speed set, but that still only gives him an extra ~3000 hp. If you stack him with protection primaries everywhere, you can get an extra ~37k in protection. The extra 3k health does not mean much; it is almost insignificant.

    Don't get me wrong, health bonuses do help Baze, especially when he's paired with Chirrut, but Baze does have other abilities that can come in handy ... if he's fast enough to use them.
  • More exceptions for speed sets in arena are the super DPS toons....specifically Raid Han, Leia, and even CLS. This is extremely shard depending, but it is more than beneficial to add a CD set to these toons so long as the speed you are losing doesn’t make you too slow.

    For instance....if your CLS is at 245 speed with his speed set on, or he can be at 239 with a CD set on, I’d sacrafice the 6 speed. Especially if you run him in lead. That’s a lot more damage on counters and without doing the math(if it’s even possible) or allowing for bonus TM gain, an arena match generally doenst last long enough for that 6 speed to cost your luke a complete turn.

    Players in the 100 range and above who may run Wiggs, they are another good candidate for a CD set. Obviously you want high speed secondaries, but their base speed is low so they don’t benefit much from a speed set anyways.

    Once again this is very shard dependent. You need to look at the speed of your opponents to know what you can get away with.
  • I'm running Speed Set on my entire Arena Squad even the tank (GK).
    I run other mods for raiding characters.
  • RH, Leia, Clone Serg, Echo, Fives, Possibly Rex, TFP, FOTP, Vader, DT, Rey and many more.
  • I just use a speed set on Thrawn, the rest of the team is either CC/CD, Potency or Defense mods. With Thrawn lead, you don't need this incredible speed due to the TM gain.

    Thrawn is 262 and the rest of the team is between 178 and 215. And it's enough against CLS teams.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    The real choice comes do you want to farm 3 different sets and hope to get the right combo of farm 1 set and at the end be able to make up th lacking secondary with the set bonus.
    I think that sums it up nicely. What do you want to farm? They won't be perfect for everyone, but it will certainly benefit everyone. I've even seen people put speed on toons like Shore so he can keep the crit immunity on everyone and keep healing himself.
  • No
  • speed mods are a poor man's equivalent of good mods. if you cant afford being a whale with 20+ speed secondaries, speed mods with 16 speed secondary may be your best option to survive
  • I disagree with the guy who said biggs and wedge dont benefit from speed due to low base speed.

    First of all, wedge gives them both +45 speed, making the duo extremely fast.

    Secondly, imagine i give my wiggs a speed set against your crit damage set. Whether biggs goes first, or wedge to inflict defense down, i just killed your wedge and i won the battle (after dispelling your tank if needed). I do this against g12 wedge, zHan every day.

    Third, for a character with low base speed, like GK, giving him a speed set will allow him to get a turn faster. If he gives his team counter before DN uses his special, DN gets hurt. To sacrifice 3,000 health set bonus from GK's 100k ehp is worth it to attack sooner.
  • And for all mods, speed secondary is vital, as is speed arrow (except for rare characters like Baze who gains TM in other ways)
  • Mobewan wrote: »
    I disagree with the guy who said biggs and wedge dont benefit from speed due to low base speed.

    First of all, wedge gives them both +45 speed, making the duo extremely fast.

    Secondly, imagine i give my wiggs a speed set against your crit damage set. Whether biggs goes first, or wedge to inflict defense down, i just killed your wedge and i won the battle (after dispelling your tank if needed). I do this against g12 wedge, zHan every day.

    Third, for a character with low base speed, like GK, giving him a speed set will allow him to get a turn faster. If he gives his team counter before DN uses his special, DN gets hurt. To sacrifice 3,000 health set bonus from GK's 100k ehp is worth it to attack sooner.

    All I got from this is you see wedge in arena. That would be awesome to see haven't seen him in months.
  • Good info here. There's a min/max side too. If the toons base speed is low, the speed set itself doesn't make a huge impact and you might consider making their turns, when they do come up, be more impactful.

    I went with potency and speed secondaries on Resistance.
    I went with critical damage mods and speed secondaries on FO.

    Still, what @Kyno said is the truest - if 80% of your roster all have Speed mod sets - it's easier to swap slots and more likely you'll have the combination of 4 speed plus 2 others you need. The 'real life' of farming mods means streamlining what you have.
    #AcolyteShootsTwice
  • Mobewan
    702 posts Member
    edited November 2017
    ProximaB1_ wrote: »

    All I got from this is you see wedge in arena. That would be awesome to see haven't seen him in months.

    The point of this discussion and my post is that speed is great for toons with low base speed and high base speed. The guy i disagreed with used wedge as an example, so i also wanted to correct his notion that wedge is slow for others.

    And you get a pat on the back for being in an older shard.

  • Mobewan wrote: »
    ProximaB1_ wrote: »

    All I got from this is you see wedge in arena. That would be awesome to see haven't seen him in months.

    The point of this discussion and my post is that speed is great for toons with low base speed and high base speed.

    And you get a pat on the back for being in an older shard.

    Lol he was making a joke, a kinda funny one too.
  • Mobewan
    702 posts Member
    edited November 2017
    :smile:
    I thought i was making a joke too
  • If you want to see wedge in arena, just start over
  • caldera
    108 posts Member
    Could you make a (weak) argument that speed is less important on any character with taunt? Apart from the taunt being removed, if they taunt for 2 turns, you want those 2 turns to take as long as possible.
  • Swordd
    161 posts Member
    Deell wrote: »
    Speed is great, but lets take Poe, you have all speed mods, with the best potency you can get, he still wont have enough potency, if Poe doesnt land expose the whole resistance team is sunk. So, speed sets that add 10 percent, you can make that 10 percent up off of one potency mod with a good speed secondary. I would not sink all your chips into speed sets. I dont think they are worth it.

    Nope. Speed is King on Poe. Just also give him a potency cross and a potency set and try to find some good potency secondaries if you can. There was literally an entire meta that involved having the fastest Poe. He just needs to land one expose to accelerate even the world's slowest RT to full TM, and that RT can then pop the expose to fill up everyone else. Let someone else go first and fracture him or get tenacity up and you are toast.

    Of course, Raid Hans rework ensured zFinn would never be arena viable again. Hard to outrun 100 pct free TM with guaranteed stun.

    Tank is another story, but bb8 negates the need for potency almost entirely, and JTR is a better option regardless.
  • CoastalJames
    2732 posts Member
    edited April 2018
    gufu21 wrote: »
    So I took a few minutes to look at my arena shard's leaderboard and check out the mods on the top teams.

    Pretty much every character has a speed set...So is it now the case that pretty much every toon on your arena team now needs a speed set (with insane speed secondaries)?

    Which pretty much answers your question doesn't it.


    The answer is - yes.

    For about 95% of your characters.

  • Dryff
    544 posts Member
    caldera wrote: »
    Could you make a (weak) argument that speed is less important on any character with taunt? Apart from the taunt being removed, if they taunt for 2 turns, you want those 2 turns to take as long as possible.

    Depends on the tank. Some tanks literally just need to be a meat shield. Some tanks need to use abilities to be effective.

    One post earlier mentioned Baze, B2, and Royal Guard. I'll add Sith Trooper to that list. I'll take my 118K health/prot over one that is faster.

    Old Ben needs turns. GK needs turns. KRU needs turns.

    Chewie, K2SO, Paploo, SRPF, Stormtrooper, and Sun Fac? You could make your argument for :)
  • Speed secondaries are king. Speed sets do matter, but they are not a must, they come close to it, but there are better alternatives in some situations.
    On average, a speed set gives you 12 speed. Most speed secondaries range from 10-20, so that is almost the same.
    So pulling a strong secondary (I know I know, nigh impossible) is equivalent to a whole set. The thing is that there are 2 kinds of percents with mods - percents that tie to a value (speed, hp) and percents that dont (potency, CC, CD)
    Meaning 10% speed translates to 12 speed-ish. 30% CD is going to be 30% CD regardless of which character you put it on.
    So it all boils down to your specific team. In a heavy dot meta like we have now, putting Thrawn in lead gives you basically no need for speed. Defense is another story, but one that will never have a definite "I found the strongest team and I dont drop anymore."
    So analyze your shard, analyze your team, and see what fits. Speed sets are desirable, to be sure. But not mandatory, and certainly not the best in all situations. Otherwise nobody would even farm other sets.
  • VonZant
    2399 posts Member
    As someone said, Auto-taunt tanks like Baze, RG and Sith Trooper should have maxed health and protection and speed is not as important. They have retribution. After thinking about it any RG rework should give him retribution when he taunts.

    Shore is iffy - he has a pretaunt and can get trashed at the beginning of a fight and he also provides TM with his unique, and his taunt has cooldown reduction. He also usually runs under a leader that provides TM or speed or both. Speed is helpful on him but not mandantory over EHP.

    All of the rest of the weaker Tanks like Chewie, Sun Fac and Gamorrean guard should get either a pre-taunt, retribution/counter, or auto taunt. Otherwise they are too slow to be viable. SF has a counter and self heal but I think he is just too slow.
  • Meerava
    481 posts Member
    No. Many characters don't care about speed. Back in Wiggs meta I neglected speed on Wedge completely, offense arrow, cause most his damage was from speed shooting frequently on Biggs. There are a lot more examples today where speed doesn't matter. Stick full defense on GK and set him as lead, put Zariss in the team, he's super tough to kill except with healing immunity and insta kill. Until RJT that was a super common tactic in arena.

    Even RJT doesn't need super speed, she gets so much TM from BB8 spreading secret intel and when others get debufs. Raid Han doesn't need super speed, etc etc etc.
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