Dark Side TB Findings & Guidance: AB & Strafe Impact

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  • @JohnnySteelAlpha Great Great posts. Thank you for them.
    Zeers led trooper team - shore,dt, snow, and storm only missed out on one wave for me so far. And I think that was more so to me being stubborn and trying to get at an elite rebel.

    Zader led teams are also doing just as well. With palp tarkin dn and a mix between boba and tfp has really worked well.

    I’m playing around with a gar lead with kren sunfac mando commando and thrawn. I’m still tweaking and only started it in phase 7 so not a good way to introduce them. But again Great posts!
  • @JohnnySteelAlpha Great Great posts. Thank you for them.
    Zeers led trooper team - shore,dt, snow, and storm only missed out on one wave for me so far. And I think that was more so to me being stubborn and trying to get at an elite rebel.

    Zader led teams are also doing just as well. With palp tarkin dn and a mix between boba and tfp has really worked well.

    I’m playing around with a gar lead with kren sunfac mando commando and thrawn. I’m still tweaking and only started it in phase 7 so not a good way to introduce them. But again Great posts!

    Yeah if you find other good combos feel free to post back here. Glad it helps a bit. That was my intent.
  • leef
    13458 posts Member
    Updating for Wave 6 Results

    Notes: Strafe was disabled, middle node assault platoon was 4/6 and the south node supplies was disabled 6/6 ...

    You're playing a different battle than (i assume) the majority of us.
    I don't mean that in a bad way, but players who are in guilds that can't fill the platoons should temper their expectations, even when using your exact strategy.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • Seems like a lot of words to say that if you don't want to get hit by the big attacks, just disable and prevent the big attacks.

    I find things like:
    FB_IMG_1511802254348.png

    Much more useful as a strategy directed towards the general user base, especially since the difficulty of the final battles is highly dependent on the enemies that RNG picks for you.
  • leef wrote: »
    Updating for Wave 6 Results

    Notes: Strafe was disabled, middle node assault platoon was 4/6 and the south node supplies was disabled 6/6 ...

    You're playing a different battle than (i assume) the majority of us.
    I don't mean that in a bad way, but players who are in guilds that can't fill the platoons should temper their expectations, even when using your exact strategy.

    Somewhat - the point of this post was ability blocking / +1 CD technique to block strafe. No one could disable strafe in waves 1-3. Also, we didn't fill most of the platoons in waves 2-5 - some we just had 1/6 (I tried to look back for exact platoons but once you move past the wave the game puts them all at 6/6 disabled). The platoons were brutal prior to wave 6. The only place we had the platoon benefit was on the rebel supplies South node on wave 6. That's where it helped a good deal. You can passively disable strafe though without platoons via ability block and +1 CDs. I did that in wave 3 with a DK-led squad. Another version could include DN / DT for multiple +1 CD tactic.
  • JohnnySteelAlpha
    2794 posts Member
    edited November 2017
    snowhut wrote: »
    Seems like a lot of words to say that if you don't want to get hit by the big attacks, just disable and prevent the big attacks.

    I find things like:
    FB_IMG_1511802254348.png

    Much more useful as a strategy directed towards the general user base, especially since the difficulty of the final battles is highly dependent on the enemies that RNG picks for you.

    Well - i'm saying here to prevent specials with ability block and +1 CD and you show me a chart with kill priority and enemy abilities? I'm not saying prevent "big attacks" I'm saying prevent the specials - which are not attacks. I disagree with that chart anyway and the kill priority. That chart also is incomplete because it doesn't include the elite versions and leaving off foresight spam ability from the Rebel Officer is a HUGE miss in his kit description. If something like that works for you more power to you sir....That chart though doesn't tell me much what toons to use, what tactics to take, and has incomplete information that I feel is critical.

    EDIT: Want to convey the chart is good for what's it's trying to do, which is something quick and concise for enemy skills, but your comparison of a tactical breakdown that includes team comps as well is just way off. Apples to oranges. Warrior does very good work on his channel and I hear he's a good guy.
  • leef
    13458 posts Member
    leef wrote: »
    Updating for Wave 6 Results

    Notes: Strafe was disabled, middle node assault platoon was 4/6 and the south node supplies was disabled 6/6 ...

    You're playing a different battle than (i assume) the majority of us.
    I don't mean that in a bad way, but players who are in guilds that can't fill the platoons should temper their expectations, even when using your exact strategy.

    Somewhat - the point of this post was ability blocking / +1 CD technique to block strafe. No one could disable strafe in waves 1-3. Also, we didn't fill most of the platoons in waves 2-5 - some we just had 1/6 (I tried to look back for exact platoons but once you move past the wave the game puts them all at 6/6 disabled). The platoons were brutal prior to wave 6. The only place we had the platoon benefit was on the rebel supplies South node on wave 6. That's where it helped a good deal. You can passively disable strafe though without platoons via ability block and +1 CDs. I did that in wave 3 with a DK-led squad. Another version could include DN / DT for multiple +1 CD tactic.

    I wasn't disagreeing and i do appriciate the post, but i thought it was worth mentioning that players should temper their expectations. It wasn't meant to negate the helpfullness of your post in any way.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • JohnnySteelAlpha
    2794 posts Member
    edited November 2017
    leef wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    Updating for Wave 6 Results

    Notes: Strafe was disabled, middle node assault platoon was 4/6 and the south node supplies was disabled 6/6 ...

    You're playing a different battle than (i assume) the majority of us.
    I don't mean that in a bad way, but players who are in guilds that can't fill the platoons should temper their expectations, even when using your exact strategy.

    Somewhat - the point of this post was ability blocking / +1 CD technique to block strafe. No one could disable strafe in waves 1-3. Also, we didn't fill most of the platoons in waves 2-5 - some we just had 1/6 (I tried to look back for exact platoons but once you move past the wave the game puts them all at 6/6 disabled). The platoons were brutal prior to wave 6. The only place we had the platoon benefit was on the rebel supplies South node on wave 6. That's where it helped a good deal. You can passively disable strafe though without platoons via ability block and +1 CDs. I did that in wave 3 with a DK-led squad. Another version could include DN / DT for multiple +1 CD tactic.

    I wasn't disagreeing and i do appriciate the post, but i thought it was worth mentioning that players should temper their expectations. It wasn't meant to negate the helpfullness of your post in any way.

    100% no worries there. You have well-thought out posts. Just noting that we didn't have platoon benefit till wave 6 South in this TB so the only part of this that is platoon-impacted is the last day in that South node because the rebel supplies skill there is insanely good. Strafe disabled helps a lot generally, but I was "disabling" strafe in prior waves with AB / +1 CD anyway. The team that would negatively impact the most would be the particular Troopers setup I have here with no DT in it - I'd likely move DT in that setup for later stages if Strafe wasn't disabled or at least damaged.

    Probably the reason to temper expectations the most would be around mods - I don't have the best mods in the game, but possibly better than many that are starting out new to DS or have more limited resources. I also did move mods around a decent amount for optimal usage. Further to your point, most of my DS stuff approaches max - so Omegas, key zetas are in place, and I didn't use anything lower than gear 11 while >50% of what I used was gear 12. There is room for lesser built toons though to still have a shot at 4/4 however since you can see in the screen shots I'm winning with some comfortable margins. There's some wiggle room there.

    EDIT: I also realize I'm more ahead of the curve on DS than many, so not trying to convey "hey it's doable now" type of deal, but just trying to show what can work once things are up to speed. Due to arena's heavy LS bias over the 2 years of this game we all realize DS characters are (deservedly so) less invested in than the LS at this time.
  • I did follow this post and it helped somewhat - I do have high tiered Sith, modded for speed -- but being unable to knock out the strafe was too much. It really does drop like a nuke. That's G12 using strategy. So, with Leef, I played a different game then you.
    Per an older post, yes, I did complete all waves with zzMT and Co. People are looking for the 'resistance team of DS' and NS is that team. I daresay the strafe is almost helpful.... by wave 4 Asajj is tearing through these guys in two hits and most of them are perma stunned between Plague and Daka's stun.
    So... the gall to ask us to put that team in platoons, ticks me off.
    #AcolyteShootsTwice
  • I did follow this post and it helped somewhat - I do have high tiered Sith, modded for speed -- but being unable to knock out the strafe was too much. It really does drop like a nuke. That's G12 using strategy. So, with Leef, I played a different game then you.
    Per an older post, yes, I did complete all waves with zzMT and Co. People are looking for the 'resistance team of DS' and NS is that team. I daresay the strafe is almost helpful.... by wave 4 Asajj is tearing through these guys in two hits and most of them are perma stunned between Plague and Daka's stun.
    So... the gall to ask us to put that team in platoons, ticks me off.

    Yes ns does seem to be that team but there’s issues. I can’t see people platooning a 7* mt. I couldn’t ask someone to do that. And res is such an easy farm which made them even more viable. Mt and zombie are the direct opposite of that lol
  • I did follow this post and it helped somewhat - I do have high tiered Sith, modded for speed -- but being unable to knock out the strafe was too much. It really does drop like a nuke. That's G12 using strategy. So, with Leef, I played a different game then you.
    Per an older post, yes, I did complete all waves with zzMT and Co. People are looking for the 'resistance team of DS' and NS is that team. I daresay the strafe is almost helpful.... by wave 4 Asajj is tearing through these guys in two hits and most of them are perma stunned between Plague and Daka's stun.
    So... the gall to ask us to put that team in platoons, ticks me off.

    Cool - what was your full NS setup that worked? Once I saw plague cleansed so fast I went away from a NS team so I never really got a good read on them.
  • Gawejn
    1086 posts Member
    Cool work:), big help for every player. But phase 6 without fulfilled platoons will be a nightmare to finish.
  • Nebulous
    1476 posts Member
    edited November 2017
    Gawejn wrote: »
    Cool work:), big help for every player. But phase 6 without fulfilled platoons will be a nightmare to finish.

    But that's okay. Not everyone should finish platoons. That being said, almost everyone should get 2/6 and a bunch could get 4/6 and fewer should get 6/6.

    So while this tb had a lot of 0/6 and 1/6, I don't fee 6/6 should be the norm. But 3/6 should be.
  • Gawejn
    1086 posts Member
    Nebulous wrote: »
    Gawejn wrote: »
    Cool work:), big help for every player. But phase 6 without fulfilled platoons will be a nightmare to finish.

    But that's okay. Not everyone should finish platoons. That being said, almost everyone should get 2/6 and a bunch could get 4/6 and fewer should get 6/6.

    So while this tb had a lot of 0/6 and 1/6, I don't fee 6/6 should be the norm. But 3/6 should be.

    There is no way in my guild for 3/6 in next few months. 2/6 also. If they will change req maybe. I should write that without 4/6 in platoons it will be impossible to finish 4/4 in phase 6.
  • Gawejn wrote: »
    Nebulous wrote: »
    Gawejn wrote: »
    Cool work:), big help for every player. But phase 6 without fulfilled platoons will be a nightmare to finish.

    But that's okay. Not everyone should finish platoons. That being said, almost everyone should get 2/6 and a bunch could get 4/6 and fewer should get 6/6.

    So while this tb had a lot of 0/6 and 1/6, I don't fee 6/6 should be the norm. But 3/6 should be.

    There is no way in my guild for 3/6 in next few months. 2/6 also. If they will change req maybe. I should write that without 4/6 in platoons it will be impossible to finish 4/4 in phase 6.

    It's not impossible to 4/4 without 4/6. I did 4/4 and didn't have 4/6.

    What I was suggesting was a change to platoons that allows 2/6 to everyone. 4/6 to those who can sacrifice solid heroes and 6/6 to those who can do all
  • Nebulous wrote: »
    Gawejn wrote: »
    Nebulous wrote: »
    Gawejn wrote: »
    Cool work:), big help for every player. But phase 6 without fulfilled platoons will be a nightmare to finish.

    But that's okay. Not everyone should finish platoons. That being said, almost everyone should get 2/6 and a bunch could get 4/6 and fewer should get 6/6.

    So while this tb had a lot of 0/6 and 1/6, I don't fee 6/6 should be the norm. But 3/6 should be.

    There is no way in my guild for 3/6 in next few months. 2/6 also. If they will change req maybe. I should write that without 4/6 in platoons it will be impossible to finish 4/4 in phase 6.

    It's not impossible to 4/4 without 4/6. I did 4/4 and didn't have 4/6.

    What I was suggesting was a change to platoons that allows 2/6 to everyone. 4/6 to those who can sacrifice solid heroes and 6/6 to those who can do all

    What team did this?
  • leef
    13458 posts Member
    Nebulous wrote: »
    Gawejn wrote: »
    Cool work:), big help for every player. But phase 6 without fulfilled platoons will be a nightmare to finish.

    But that's okay. Not everyone should finish platoons. That being said, almost everyone should get 2/6 and a bunch could get 4/6 and fewer should get 6/6.

    So while this tb had a lot of 0/6 and 1/6, I don't fee 6/6 should be the norm. But 3/6 should be.

    As far as setting the norm goes, LS TB was fine imo. We certainly didn't go 6/6 in all phases, but the p2p characters usually only showed up in platoons 5 and 6 (right center, bottom right).
    I'm not sure why they switched things up for DS TB. In phase 5 and 6 we could fill 1/6 max in every squad territory. It didn't make sence to me.
    Furthermore, DS platoons will be difficult even without requiring p2p characters. I'm reasonably sure 6/6 for each platoon will still be next to impossible for the average guild. That's totally fine though, but worth taking into consideration when talking about platoons.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • leef wrote: »
    Nebulous wrote: »
    Gawejn wrote: »
    Cool work:), big help for every player. But phase 6 without fulfilled platoons will be a nightmare to finish.

    But that's okay. Not everyone should finish platoons. That being said, almost everyone should get 2/6 and a bunch could get 4/6 and fewer should get 6/6.

    So while this tb had a lot of 0/6 and 1/6, I don't fee 6/6 should be the norm. But 3/6 should be.

    As far as setting the norm goes, LS TB was fine imo. We certainly didn't go 6/6 in all phases, but the p2p characters usually only showed up in platoons 5 and 6 (right center, bottom right).
    I'm not sure why they switched things up for DS TB. In phase 5 and 6 we could fill 1/6 max in every squad territory. It didn't make sence to me.
    Furthermore, DS platoons will be difficult even without requiring p2p characters. I'm reasonably sure 6/6 for each platoon will still be next to impossible for the average guild. That's totally fine though, but worth taking into consideration when talking about platoons.

    i agree with you. When talking about team comps, it's now important to discuss platooning. Lstb it was given that we could destroy or badly hinder the enemy. This isn't the case anymore.

    I feel 1/6 for any guild is wrong and a failure of the Platoon system itself. So long as the guild has 30 ds characters to Donate, a 2/6 should be easy to obtain. The 3/6 and 4/6 Should require some members to sacrifice solid heroes. And 5/6 + 6/6 should be challenging. The 1/6 and even 0/6 from this last tb were spawned from a fundamental flawed platoon system that should be addressed.
    Gawejn wrote: »
    Nebulous wrote: »
    Gawejn wrote: »
    Nebulous wrote: »
    Gawejn wrote: »
    Cool work:), big help for every player. But phase 6 without fulfilled platoons will be a nightmare to finish.

    But that's okay. Not everyone should finish platoons. That being said, almost everyone should get 2/6 and a bunch could get 4/6 and fewer should get 6/6.

    So while this tb had a lot of 0/6 and 1/6, I don't fee 6/6 should be the norm. But 3/6 should be.

    There is no way in my guild for 3/6 in next few months. 2/6 also. If they will change req maybe. I should write that without 4/6 in platoons it will be impossible to finish 4/4 in phase 6.

    It's not impossible to 4/4 without 4/6. I did 4/4 and didn't have 4/6.

    What I was suggesting was a change to platoons that allows 2/6 to everyone. 4/6 to those who can sacrifice solid heroes and 6/6 to those who can do all

    What team did this?

    South ds mission:

    zVader, zSid, boba fett, tarkin and dn.

    The stacking of dots does far more damage than the 20% health gain. Boba fett applies AB to everyone to delay the strafe. Dn +1 cd to delay the strafe (try not to use the +1 while they have AB and it's kind of redundant) additionally, dn's annihilate cooldown doesn't reset between transitions so you can open up the 4th phase with an instant kill. Tarkin applies offense down and cc down (intimidation tactics) which severely limits offense and his ultimate firepower reduces tm which further delays strafe.
  • Nebulous wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    Nebulous wrote: »
    Gawejn wrote: »
    Cool work:), big help for every player. But phase 6 without fulfilled platoons will be a nightmare to finish.

    But that's okay. Not everyone should finish platoons. That being said, almost everyone should get 2/6 and a bunch could get 4/6 and fewer should get 6/6.

    So while this tb had a lot of 0/6 and 1/6, I don't fee 6/6 should be the norm. But 3/6 should be.

    As far as setting the norm goes, LS TB was fine imo. We certainly didn't go 6/6 in all phases, but the p2p characters usually only showed up in platoons 5 and 6 (right center, bottom right).
    I'm not sure why they switched things up for DS TB. In phase 5 and 6 we could fill 1/6 max in every squad territory. It didn't make sence to me.
    Furthermore, DS platoons will be difficult even without requiring p2p characters. I'm reasonably sure 6/6 for each platoon will still be next to impossible for the average guild. That's totally fine though, but worth taking into consideration when talking about platoons.

    i agree with you. When talking about team comps, it's now important to discuss platooning. Lstb it was given that we could destroy or badly hinder the enemy. This isn't the case anymore.

    I feel 1/6 for any guild is wrong and a failure of the Platoon system itself. So long as the guild has 30 ds characters to Donate, a 2/6 should be easy to obtain. The 3/6 and 4/6 Should require some members to sacrifice solid heroes. And 5/6 + 6/6 should be challenging. The 1/6 and even 0/6 from this last tb were spawned from a fundamental flawed platoon system that should be addressed.
    Gawejn wrote: »
    Nebulous wrote: »
    Gawejn wrote: »
    Nebulous wrote: »
    Gawejn wrote: »
    Cool work:), big help for every player. But phase 6 without fulfilled platoons will be a nightmare to finish.

    But that's okay. Not everyone should finish platoons. That being said, almost everyone should get 2/6 and a bunch could get 4/6 and fewer should get 6/6.

    So while this tb had a lot of 0/6 and 1/6, I don't fee 6/6 should be the norm. But 3/6 should be.

    There is no way in my guild for 3/6 in next few months. 2/6 also. If they will change req maybe. I should write that without 4/6 in platoons it will be impossible to finish 4/4 in phase 6.

    It's not impossible to 4/4 without 4/6. I did 4/4 and didn't have 4/6.

    What I was suggesting was a change to platoons that allows 2/6 to everyone. 4/6 to those who can sacrifice solid heroes and 6/6 to those who can do all

    What team did this?

    South ds mission:

    zVader, zSid, boba fett, tarkin and dn.

    The stacking of dots does far more damage than the 20% health gain. Boba fett applies AB to everyone to delay the strafe. Dn +1 cd to delay the strafe (try not to use the +1 while they have AB and it's kind of redundant) additionally, dn's annihilate cooldown doesn't reset between transitions so you can open up the 4th phase with an instant kill. Tarkin applies offense down and cc down (intimidation tactics) which severely limits offense and his ultimate firepower reduces tm which further delays strafe.

    BINGO! That's a great team in DS TB. Lots of special blocking / delaying there.
  • Thanks JSA et al for your thoughts here. Appreciate the time you've all taken to put this together.
    | ANZGC | Exile |
  • No screen shots...but wanted to update a few teams:

    NS with no Zombie can pass day 7 fine (Talia fills in nice).

    KRU lead with FO also does very well. SFTFP is made for DSTBs.

    Once people are able to fill out their rosters with one or both of these non-Empire squads then DSTBs and the Empire-heavy platoons will not be an issue. This was not true early on in DSTB before having NS and FO ready, but with the two squads above now I'm readily able to donate Thrawn, Shore, TFP, and other key units like Tarkin or DK at the same time without performance being impacted at all.
  • leef
    13458 posts Member
    I'll have to adjust my opinion quite a bit since i last posted in this thread. Platoons aren't that important as i initialy thought. Obviously filling them all makes it quite a bit easier, but guilds that can fill them all probably weren't struggling in the first place. Seemed only right to rectify that error in judgement.
    With good teams you can 4/4 all the missions even with minimal platoons. With 2/6 platoons post phase 3 it's still very doable to get max waves.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • leef wrote: »
    I'll have to adjust my opinion quite a bit since i last posted in this thread. Platoons aren't that important as i initialy thought. Obviously filling them all makes it quite a bit easier, but guilds that can fill them all probably weren't struggling in the first place. Seemed only right to rectify that error in judgement.
    With good teams you can 4/4 all the missions even with minimal platoons. With 2/6 platoons post phase 3 it's still very doable to get max waves.

    Yeah I agree. 4/6 or 2/6...don't need full clear. You're probably better off skipping platoons and keeping key units (if necessary) later on in the TB. A lot of it really came down to the fact that people's DS rosters were pretty bad relative to LS and that was made it hard...and also people didn't have the DS depth either. The enemies are also tough, but once you have a sufficiently built DS roster like LS than the enemies here are just as easy (or easier?) to deal with as the LS TB.
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