HSTR ruined my 119m guild...

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We lost 12 members today and I'm expecting more to leave after haat payout in a few minutes. This raid has divided the community die to being so hard.

Before you try to compare this to Hpit and Haat, let me say to you that this is a poor excuse...

First of all Han Solo was a bad character until his rework. Many players had him and they didn't even use him...

General Kenobi was always awesome but the need for Kenobi was mitigated by the fact that Baze was a great Tank at the time as well and also with Darth Maul being meta, Kenobi would have been useless at the time. It wasn't until the Zolo rework and CLS that people realized how powerful the Titans were. And also most people didn't have a 7 star R2 and Trawn anyways. As Rex began to counter Maul people saw the opportunity to use Kenobi with Zarriss against the Rex teams and then guilds did break over haat.

But this feels different, Traya's kit looks disgusting and she's gonna be without a doubt the next big thing in arena. She's gonna be bigger than Solo and Kenobi and this is why most people are too scared not to have her.

HAAT could be completed by most guilds around the 60 million GP mark, depending on how many p2 and p3 teams they had, up until BB8. Now a single person can solo it all.

The sith raid however requires GPs in the range of 130+ million. These are players that average GPs between 2 and 3 million who have played for a while.

They know what's at stake with arena because they have experience of how important it is to be viable in arena. They are all in panic mode knowing that others in their shard are farming Traya and thus they know they must move on. Nobody has the patience to wait until their guild is strong enough to do it because every week that passes now is another week on your payout later.

The raid is perceived as a challenge for whales but whales aren't the only people who play this game. Most players are in the 2-2.5 million GP and most of them are currently unable to do HSTR.

My proposition is to lower the difficulty of the raid to make it available to more guilds in the 120+ million GP. And secondly to boost the rewards of tier 5 and 6. Tier 6 should drop the exact same gear, credits and guild coins as heroic minus the Traya shards!

This is still going to incentivize players to do the heroic version but it will provide some comfort to those who are close, that they are at least not falling behind in gear and credits.

Replies

  • Shaddes
    18 posts Member
    I think you should have read the large announced post about the raid reward changes before saying they need to be changed, because they will be changing.
  • You complain an awful lot

    And usually for a good reason
  • BazeMalbus wrote: »
    You complain an awful lot

    And usually for a good reason

    Usually is debatable, but this time you are def off. In left field
  • Never seen the acronym HSTR but I don't like it.
  • RaylekZen wrote: »
    Never seen the acronym HSTR but I don't like it.

    I actually don't like it myself by people understand it so whatever
  • BazeMalbus wrote: »
    You complain an awful lot

    And usually for a good reason

    Usually is debatable, but this time you are def off. In left field

    I mean do you think 120 million GP guilds shouldn't be able to complete it?
  • Hellios
    42 posts Member
    GhostTruckin +1
  • BazeMalbus wrote: »
    BazeMalbus wrote: »
    You complain an awful lot

    And usually for a good reason

    Usually is debatable, but this time you are def off. In left field

    I mean do you think 120 million GP guilds shouldn't be able to complete it?

    Lol, ok, I'll humour you briefly,

    120 mil guild, not really no. Let's overlook how absolutely useless using GP as a measuring stick is , but as an average guild with a GP of 120 mil, nope, you shouldn't be able to just jump on heroic STR .

    Think about it, new raid, new design, made hard as hell for what is currently used. A average guild will have a diversely built roster collection. I mean come one, the average GP per member is less then 2.5 mil, and most will have nearly 1 mil in ships, plus, most will favor LS chars usually, so . .see the point there?

    K, next,

    If you had a guild of fifty specific players, with the specific squads for the new raid. And they had a GP of 100-120 mil, then yes they would be able to beat the raid, . .. What does that tell you . . Point of fact, the Devs have clearly,stated in interviews previously that they intend to shake up guilds and cause mass restructuring because the game isn't supposed to be three guys soloing raids while 47 log a zero. Hence why the STR is done in such a way that it requires every member to pull their weight or get replaced.

    So,. .

    If you have a solid crew, and you work together, that dreaded teamwork thing again I know, and you build the new required squads, just like we all did when Haat launched, and yes they ARE comparable , claiming they aren't is the true foolishness, then you will achieve all the way up to heroic STR .

    Now, just because folks that have invested whichever medium , time or money or both, are able to handle heroic right away, doesn't mean that you need to copy them, traya looks good for sure, but is traya going to be the only good char? Nope.

    Isn't it better to develop and build towards a goal ? Is there not a sense of accomplishment for getting better and hitting a goal? Why should you be able to to just automatically clear heroic of the latest and toughest raid just because you have a certain GP number? Do you see how that is absolutely out to lunch to assume your 2 mil roster should be good enough to take on the newest raid without getting better first?

    I agree up to a point. You're right about everything but I strongly disagree about the Traya part. You say that she won't be the only good character but honestly her kit looks like it counters everything in the meta.

    She has anti buff, anti TM gain, anti counter attack, anti heal, anti everything mechanics. Her kit is so strong that she will become the meta and you're a smart guy, you know how the meta works. You know that if the meta shifts around just one team, nothing else around it can survive. That's the entire definition of the meta.

    Now having that said, those who own her will almost without a doubt dominate arena effortlessly. The arena right now is built to the point where all teams can lose on defense. The things about Traya is that she won't lose on defense and therefore those who run her will simply dominate.

    This is the problem for me, I wouldn't mind not having her if she was a regular character with decent capabilities, but she seems almost impossible to beat and that's why having patience isn't an option. This could guarantee some players a free top arena pass for months while you're missing out on crystals because you don't have her.

    Yes I most certainly understand the sense of accomplishment but when it comes to arena payouts nothing matter more than possition and crystals, I'm not willing to compromise on that.

    Now you're probably going to try and debate on whether she is as strong as I'm saying. Yes I know the same was said about CLS until GK-Zarriss started beating him consistently. The same was said about Talzin until imp troopers and CLS started beating her. And the same was said about JTR until NS and Palpatine beat her and the same was said about Palpatine until Rex comes from the graveyard and beats him.

    But I have a feeling that this is different, nothing we currently have in the game can beat Traya's kit and if a character comes later on to beat her, they won't be farmable for months. Those are months during which Traya users dominate for free and with no effort and everyone else is losing crystals.

    I hope I'm wrong but I kind of doubt it.
  • Why stop at lowering it just so 120m+ can do it? My guild at 30m should be able to do it too!
  • I don't think the devs have thought this through. Arena contains players from a wide range of guilds with a wide range of power. Some will be carried by their guilds and hey Traya way sooner than other and that's what scares me the most
  • Why stop at lowering it just so 120m+ can do it? My guild at 30m should be able to do it too!

    I shouldn't even respond to this troll comment but I'm just drawn to shut down the insanity.

    No your 30 million guild shouldn't be able to do heroic, your 30 million guild shouldn't even be able to do HAAT. Please stop and get serious.

    I didn't use 120 mil randomly. 120 million / 50 players averages a 2.4 million GP, this is actually pretty high and it's the kind of GP you achieve at around 2 years of playing the game.

    So to answer your question if someone's played for 2 years I think they should be able to complete it, given that they are in a guild full of people who have played for that long also.

    If all you're gonna do is throw out a ridiculous comment like that just to prove a point, you better do something more constructive and explain your reasoning
  • Ruark_Icefire
    296 posts Member
    edited April 2018
    BazeMalbus wrote: »
    Why stop at lowering it just so 120m+ can do it? My guild at 30m should be able to do it too!

    I shouldn't even respond to this troll comment but I'm just drawn to shut down the insanity.

    No your 30 million guild shouldn't be able to do heroic, your 30 million guild shouldn't even be able to do HAAT. Please stop and get serious.

    I didn't use 120 mil randomly. 120 million / 50 players averages a 2.4 million GP, this is actually pretty high and it's the kind of GP you achieve at around 2 years of playing the game.

    So to answer your question if someone's played for 2 years I think they should be able to complete it, given that they are in a guild full of people who have played for that long also.

    If all you're gonna do is throw out a ridiculous comment like that just to prove a point, you better do something more constructive and explain your reasoning

    My reasoning is the same as yours. You want the cut off to be where you can do it. And my original post was sarcasm in case you somehow missed that.
  • Dztn
    44 posts Member
    edited April 2018
    Sorry, but i agree with BazeMalbus. But we need to trust the dev's.

    "The Community" isn't just about the 2-3m GP Players. The largest playerbase be located under this 2-3m limit.
    And if Traya does an huge impact on the game (PvE or PvP) we can not foresee, but we will in future.
    And then it depends from CG what will happen, but we can't talk about things that have not happened yet.
    We have to trust in CG that they will react on this situations that Traya splits the community.
    I can't imagine that CG don't care about this if it's happen.

    The biggest problem is that many humans can not wait. They want it now. Let them leave. If the next raid comes... maybe the guild is struggling - they will leave again ;)

    The Vultures of Time :wink:

    Progress also takes time.
  • I dont understand why only heroic should reward shards for these raid toons. Other tiers can have shards as well in lesser quantities, so the more powerful the guild is, the faster it will unlock that toon.
  • Peer
    299 posts Member
    edited April 2018


    With regards to Treya: kitten on Treya. You don’t need to go for every kitten designed toon in this game. You don’t have to follow meta. If you don’t like it don’t do it. I do not care about the cheap Palp meta.
    Post edited by Fauztin on
  • There hasn't been an exodus of anyone in my guild, so I don't see any shake up
  • Peer
    299 posts Member
    edited April 2018
    There are no flies in my kitchen so flies do not exist. Think twice before posting.
    Post edited by Fauztin on
  • leef
    11273 posts Member
    BazeMalbus wrote: »
    Before you try to compare this to Hpit and Haat, let me say to you that this is a poor excuse...
    Not a poor excuse, it's a fair comparrison. Loads of guilds died or merged in pursuit of hansolo/kenobi shards.
    General Kenobi was always awesome but the need for Kenobi was mitigated by the fact that Baze was a great Tank at the time as well and also with Darth Maul being meta, Kenobi would have been useless at the time. It wasn't until the Zolo rework and CLS that people realized how powerful the Titans were. And also most people didn't have a 7 star R2 and Trawn anyways. As Rex began to counter Maul people saw the opportunity to use Kenobi with Zarriss against the Rex teams and then guilds did break over haat.
    Whut ?! Best part: "Kenobi would have been useless at the time." I mean, come on man. We get it that you want to paint kenobi as a scrub and traya as the only ever unbeatable character, but come on man.
    that said, it's never fun to be in a guild that breaks up. I don't like it either, but i'm unwilling to blame the raid. It's the difference in levels of commitment between the players that results in the break up.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • At some point in future..i believe that hstr will be solo'able alteast each phase.
    There will be toons reworked or released that will be the most optimum teams for just.this raid.
    I mean already we hear that talia, ns initiate are useful in this raid (whom i have and it helps me finish always in top 10, sometimes 5..i otherwise finish in haat in 20 to 30)
    Its just about waiting for it..ofc if people are in a hurry becauae of arena meta...well...nothing can be done.
    However the alternative would be find out what team composition she will gel well and how to crush it with the existing meta..i 95% believe it is possible with existing toons (just like the current sith trooper rework+other siths meta can be defeated)
  • What i learned from HAAT when it came out: you will have a hard life as a single guild.
    We merged, helped others afterwards, they joined us and followed our way of doing things. And within 1 year we grew from 1 single guild + a merger for HAAT to 10 guilds now. Currently 3 of our guilds clear HSith, and we still have several guilds close to heroic ready (120m GP+) we will support now, step by step. This only works if you are part of an alliance or if you have a group of loyal players who don´t mind waiting a bit. Personally i don´t care too much about 1 mega whale guild we could build, i rather want to help all my alliance guildies to earn Heroic rewards, even if we have to share power, swap our top players with weaker ones from other guilds for a while, sending mercs to our other guilds so they clear a few Heroic raids per month at least. There is a lot you can do - the only thing you should not do as a single guild is "wait". If you know it will take your guild another 3 months for getting heroic ready then leadership should talk to all guildies, and especially talk to all your top players. If you don´t keep them happy they might leave and it will take very long to recover from it, throwing you back even more until you will become heroic ready. Just filling all spots again won´t be enough: in a few weeks a lot of others will be heroic ready and you need to have a plan now - otherwise the next few heroic ready players will leave you. Not saying you have to join an alliance, but maybe consider a merger with a guild in the same boat, combine your power and let 50 guildies go for heroic, merge back once your guilds are ready for it and you can carry the ones you put into the weaker guild. Nice if everyone sticks together in a single guild, but you could let half your guildies unlock Traya until the rest is ready for it. Here casuals and weaker f2p have to understand that they will have to wait a bit, and that everyone has to go his pace for a while. Otherwise they will just slow down the progress of all others. I could write an essay about it, but believe me when i say: none of our guilds fell apart, of course there are some unhappy once who have to wait, but we will help them asap. It works - if you have short term and long term plans for your guild(s).
    Alliance Leader and Leader of DeathStarVentDesigners - Discord App: Kelthuzad#5528

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  • Riegorn
    98 posts Member
    edited April 2018
    I understand why people leave and to go the stronger guilds for the raids, it can be frustrating when you have couple people who are just not carrying their weight. We want to try our first heroic soon and a lot of people are farming the best squads for each phase, but i am afraid that there is gonna be couple people who will not contribute enough and we fail.

    Same thing happend with Pit and haat, both raids did break a lot of guilds and it is expected that this raid will do too. Han might have kittened before rework, but GK was always amazing. If the raid gonna need 40+ people to actively participate for months, thats gonna be big issue for more casual guilds, but who knows, most likely some reworks or new character will make it a lot easier eventually or maybe we get lvl 90 soon or something.

    Post edited by Fauztin on
  • Dztn
    44 posts Member
    At some point in future..i believe that hstr will be solo'able alteast each phase.
    There will be toons reworked or released that will be the most optimum teams for just.this raid.
    I mean already we hear that talia, ns initiate are useful in this raid (whom i have and it helps me finish always in top 10, sometimes 5..i otherwise finish in haat in 20 to 30)
    Its just about waiting for it..ofc if people are in a hurry becauae of arena meta...well...nothing can be done.
    However the alternative would be find out what team composition she will gel well and how to crush it with the existing meta..i 95% believe it is possible with existing toons (just like the current sith trooper rework+other siths meta can be defeated)

    It can't be solo'd. No turnmeter reduce.
  • I can't wait for this account to go the way of your previous account.
  • evoluza
    1393 posts Member
    First of all. Han solo came out with the Droid meta. Shot first destroyed jawa engineer.
    Kenobi was also great at the start in combination with chaze.
    Traya will also ramp up the arena.
    Every raid destroyed guild's. Don't tell me heroic sith raid is something different....
  • At some point in future..i believe that hstr will be solo'able alteast each phase.
    There will be toons reworked or released that will be the most optimum teams for just.this raid.
    I mean already we hear that talia, ns initiate are useful in this raid (whom i have and it helps me finish always in top 10, sometimes 5..i otherwise finish in haat in 20 to 30)
    Its just about waiting for it..ofc if people are in a hurry becauae of arena meta...well...nothing can be done.
    However the alternative would be find out what team composition she will gel well and how to crush it with the existing meta..i 95% believe it is possible with existing toons (just like the current sith trooper rework+other siths meta can be defeated)

    This raid is intentionally un-soloable. The stacking tenacity and speed ensure that regardless of how good your team is, you will eventually hit a brick wall with each phase. Unless they nerf the tenacity or speed when hit thing, no one is going to be soloing this raid, even pieces of it.
  • BazeMalbus wrote: »
    I didn't use 120 mil randomly. 120 million / 50 players averages a 2.4 million GP, this is actually pretty high and it's the kind of GP you achieve at around 2 years of playing the game.

    Pretty high
    Around 2 years


    While it may not be random it isn't all that well supported by reason.

    Coincidentally, I started in April 2016. Exactly 2 years ago. My GP is 2.85M. I'm pretty average in my arena. Based on this the GP floor for Heroic STR should be 142.5M GP.
  • DBane
    56 posts Member
    Don't agree with OP.

    This raid even in heroic is easy once you have the correct teams, zetas and guild. If you don't have 50ppl joining the fight - well dump them or the ones which lead the scoreboard will look out for other opportunities.

    As you mentioned nobody wants to be behind in arena. So if you have the correct roster for this raid you will do it. If not farm until you can do it. This was always the case.

    Concerning your 120mio GM boarder - well, don't agree here either. Me and my shardmates have to fight for the top of arena daily and our competition are ppl with 1,3mio GM who just have one team (either palp lead or NS) which allows them to compete.

    They came out of nowhere with Palp rework and once Traya hits the holotables for us in Arena - they will be gone again for sure... luckily
  • Fauztin
    963 posts Moderator
    Moved to Feedback: Raids
    "I am a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar." ~ Hoban Washburne
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