Difficulty vs Enjoyment, same thing or different concepts?
April 28, 2018 4:38PM
edited April 2018
I've wanted to ask this for a while. Some here have voiced they find certain things impossibly hard, with either little or no reward (gear etc..). Others find the challenge and completion rewarding enough. Still others say these events are for those willing to pay to build strong teams. Now, with all that and concepts some will no doubt mention (and please do) what is your point of view? Do you prefer impossible tasks, and completing them? What would you prefer as a happy medium?
Added: I will watch and read, there are no wrong or right answers.
Added: I will watch and read, there are no wrong or right answers.
Post edited by DuneSeaFarmer on
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And then the rest of us can win them in a few months for free.
Just how it works.
I guess it's a bit frustrating when, as in the Sith Raid, it's not only very hard but the rewards are very poor. That's a problem for me.
If I can walk into an event and makeup a team based on outside knowledge of the event (non game play), and then drive the train right through it, I am just a little let down.
That being said, I like to play the game, I would very easily have never stopped slugging through the old GW every day for the rewards we have today. TM loaded, taunt ignoring events get me going, I love seeing the unexpected, learning on my feet while feeling off balance. Added skills to new content that just make "the old tricks", well old and not useful. I dont want to rebuild a pit TMR team to take on a new challenge.
I also know as an "elder player" that I have a decent roster to fall back on and understand that people who are " at the same level" as far as requirements for an event/raid go may not have the same breath in their roster and things like this can be frustrating because they just dont see or dont have the path to complete it. That is what I would think makes things interesting from the development side of things.
I think many lose sight of the fact that it's ok to not get something the first time, half the fun is figuring it out.IMHO
A lot of sense there- good post, thank you.
The optimal balance is somewhere in between, and different for every person's tolerance/skill level. Also there are people at vastly different roster development levels in the game who will have different experiences with the same content.
So the right balance is to have a variety of different difficulty levels, and as long as there is something for low level players to do they shouldn't gripe that content exists they can't finish yet. However that doesn't mean that there isn't occasionally some content that's a bit overturned.
I did the Mythic tier of the Thrawn event (against Phoenix) with g12 toons, multiple Zetas, and arena quality mods. I lost between 1 to 3 characters before my first move with the opponent taking 12-15 moves before me most of the time. I kept having to restart to get RNGesus to permit me to actually have 5 characters with a pulse before I could attempt to play it, and that required just restarting repeatedly for 30 min. I didn't find it fun really, and didn't get a sense of accomplishment because it was just way too coinflip dependant. But another level of gear will likely make it about right. The Ewok event on the other hand, wasn't easy, but was beatable on the first try. It probably could have been slightly harder, and will be too easy come the next gear/mod/level increase of some kind.
So trying to have content that pleases everyone, and stays engaging as rosters grow is difficult. As long as there are things to do at my level, and things to work towards I'm not going to get too mad about it.
I think you've just nailed it.
In part my comments reflect that I also dont care about how they setup the challenge. If they feel a a string of attacks puts us on the defensive in a way that they desire, I'm ok with that.
I'm a big fan of events putting us on your heels and in away we are not used to.
I'm also ok with losing, even with a team of g12 toons ,but that is definitely just me.
I think what some may feel is, trial and error is fine. But sometimes the deck is stacked against you, to increase revenues, not enjoyment. Some mechanics are a tad obvious. "Your hero is passe, but our new and improved..".
I think a problem in this game currently is that the devs are consistently breaking the rules of the game to give us a challenge. Somewhat in the sith raid with bosses immune to everything, and moreso in the special events with all kinds of hidden abilities and buffs.
At least in the sith raid, all the new rules are detailed for you to read. You have to read Reddit to learn the mechanics of the special events.
I really wanted 20 wampa shards in the last event. I honestly think my bh were good enough to win if I swapped in mods. But I estimated the total time to win, mod the toons correctly, then replace all the mods would be about two hours. I decided not to do it just because that sounded like a really unfun two hours.
That's the first time I've skipped something I could've gotten in this game. That's my choice of course, but I know the devs want engagement in the game, and content worked on and released that reduces engagement is probably not what they're going for.
But there’s differences right?
I don’t want to Solo the Sith raid out the gate.
But an event that requires my fav faction or certain toons that I suped up I expect to beat it but give props to devs who make me think about and play around with different comps.
Also with mythic events I don’t mind that opponents are loaded with tm or tenacity because it’s a bonus. ESP the legendary mythics. You got the legendary toon 2 zetas can be recouped in a few days.
If my team is g12 max arena mods with a bunch of zetas and I’m getting my keester handed to me there’s probably a bug. But like Kyno my roster is pretty deep over 2 years playing this game. And if I’m having a crazy time that means the forums are on fire. (Not trying to sound conceited here)
I do think the immediacy of this game has changed, the stakes feel like they are so much higher for other players. Idk if that’s the “missing out” factor or just how the game moved along. This started with CLS I think, and then towards LSTB where CLS was required. I think it elevated the stakes of what happens when you miss out. So with one toon released you had the possibility of missing out raid rewards and a requirement with lstb not to mention falling far in arena. But there are always counters. And I think that’s when guilds kind of had those toon requirements come in and have members feeling slighted.
A great example of this was the Yoda legendary (this how I actually learned how to farm correctly)
Wasn’t eligible the 1st time. Unlocked at 5* the 2nd time. When the 3rd time rolled around yoda was nuts! I think there was like a level cap increase or something. I couldn’t beat it at all. Like no shot, it was so frustrating. Devs scaled it back and I played and beat it like way too easy didn’t feel rewarding at all. But there were no stakes to it. My guild didn’t cut me for not having him. Same for palp, I didn’t get him at all till the 2nd time. The counter to that it’s a game and this game has the hard task of trying to cater to a very ranged player base. As a recruiter I would love for a way to have newer players to up theor rosters faster. (Maybe PHX as a starter team) but as a player at my level I don’t want to just sim this latest event for Ewoks I already have 7* and mods that will not even go on pilots I don’t use. It’s a hard balance and I think the devs do a great job with it.
Tldr- time and/or money will advance you in this game, choose which works best for you. Events always come back. We build our rosters everyday, brick by brick.
Ps. Sorry for the long post. I am doing my best to procrastinate studying for the GRE.
Good luck on your GRE, oh.. one word, decafe lol couldn't resist.
There are multiple tiers. You can beat everything but the mythic tier of this event with sub-dominant toons.
Also you can have several of these dominant teams without having to pay. I've played for one year and spent $40. I beat this mythic tier because I've been working on a lot of different teams over that year, not because I paid money.
I'm sorry, but no. Something being difficult, even extremely difficult does not all have to do with revenue. The feeling that you need to do this the first time is what people choose to use as a driving force behind their enjoyment of the game is not the devs choice.
Nothing in this game is $$ only. If someone "cant wait" to beat an event as a business they will gladly take your $$ and help you out, as just about any business will. If a raid/event/anything is out of my reach I am immediately planning my moves to either change my current long term plan to fit it in or see where it will fall if I wait.
Yes events are built with a team in mind as was explained with thrawn event originally, but it was doable with at least 2 different combos. Same can be said for the mythic, people did claim to do it without shore, but as soon as anyone says that the response is only because they had "great rng".... I think there is more to be said for strategy and mods, but that's just me.
Everything a gaming company does is profit driven, nothing is by chance, nothing is accidental, nothing reaches daylight without being carefully weighed (pros and cons, impact short term, long term). Even when it's just in the idea stage they toss the idea around internally, and rip it apart. Revenues are one of if not the most important topic in any discussion. Will it boost revenues, restrict the games overall development (player base progress etc.,), will it hurt the game over time, detract from building new teams, etc.. The list is endless. But this is not some dark plot, it's called keeping the bottom line in sight. If my comment gave another impression, it was not intended in a derogatory sense. It was intended to infer that sometimes things being revenue motivated are a bit obvious, but such is the way of things. A developer once told me, if everyone in game was happy, he would worry, because something was wrong.
All that said, great responses everyone. Hope more are added.
Hahaha I completely disagree. How can you say that the rewards are very poor when the reward is the most powerful character currently in the game?
We really don't know yet if she's the most powerful. Also he could have meant tier 6 which is a very long slog for junk rewards, or the "improved" rewards that got rolled back. Those were aweful. The current HSR gives pretty good rewards... for now.
I'm sorry but I disagree with @CoastalJames . Yes in theory most events start difficult and mostly those who pay can complete them, then after some time f2p can complete them too.
However in practice it's not how it works. I am still unable to complete a single tier of the ewok event. I simply don't have the chance to gear my ewoks. I'm not making any progress with wicket and it's not really my choice.
Gear is very difficult to get unless you save all your crystals which I can't really do since I'm also behind in mod farming. Also the recent additions to hard nodes of Talzin, wicket and zombie are forcing me to refresh for regular energy too.
I'm currently way undergeared in multiple factions. My FO is horribly undergeared, other than pilot who's g11 and officer and kylo at g10 everyone else is at gear 7-8.
My ewoks are all sitting with blue gear still with a couple exceptions at g7-8. I'm never going to get shards for wicket from the event or do the assult battles. Additionally my Bounty Hunters are undergeared, sitting at g7-8 except Boba and Ig88 at g11. Droids, same story. Clones, everyone but Rex is gear 7-8 too. My imperial troopers are undergeared too, other than my Death trooper at g12 and shore at g10 everyone else is g8. I won't even mention Jawas. Ohh and my Phoenix is all at g8 except Ezra who's 11.
I have been very careful with who I gear, I haven't been wasteful at all, I have literally not wasted a single raid piece in nearly 2 years and I'm still nowhere near getting some of these factions to be viable.
I used to like events that had a certain star requirement and then let you use event units but those aren't very profitable. I want an easy path to gear 10 and sometimes I find myself stuck at gear 7 due to lack of carbantis. Or being stuck at g8 due to lack of rancor raid pieces.
Our forces are split into farming for many multiple events/game modes. The new game model is kind of forcing players to utilize their entire roster which is a good thing, except it should also cause gear to be aquired more easily.
That's my take on all this
If you have blue gear Ewoks then of course you can't beat it. But you are super close. I could get through the Wicket event with gear 7 and 8 Ewoks, levels in the 70s, and junk mods. All that requires is easy to get stuff you have lying around. That was before they drastically slashed its health, so it should be easier now.
I was talking about imperial invasion too
I was just pointing out that you could spend literally a day or two, and have your Ewoks viable for that event. Not that all characters can be maxed out effortlessly. Not disagreeing if you are saying that lower gear levels take a very long time.
There are some of those events that don't need to be all the way to the max to use. I could get 6/6 in LSTB with my Phoenix all at g8 if I didn't get horrible RNG. I've completed all the BH missions in DSTB with the same gear level on all my toons you have pre rework. And leftover/below average mods on them too.
It sounds like you have a bunch of half finished teams that you leave off finishing right before you get the payoff to go chase something new. You more than once used language about being "forced" or having "no choice." As a free player myself I will tell you that we have a choice. When it comes to event requirements I choose to stick to one team until I have put the bare minimum amount of resources into them needed to get them to do what I need them to do. If something else comes along I choose to miss it, and that's lousy. But I finish one team, then get the next one. Doing that, the only thing I've been excluded from lately was the upper levels of that Bounty event. I had no chance there. Next time... maybe.
Stepping away from the OT for a second. To any in a similar situation, build one team at a time. Whatever the team, build one at a time. Ignore meta, events, and just focus on one. You will be surprised how fast it goes and you have a viable team. Then on to the next.
I really liked this mythic. Unlike the other "survive the barrage, then win" mythics, Forest Moon actually made sense. There's a guy on my arena shard that runs g12, zetaed ewoks and battling him is very similar to stage 8 - crazy tm, buffs,debuffs, assists,revives, all while you sit back and watch. So it didn't feel contrived or like it was using dirty tricks. The fact that it required different tactics than the previous tiers was a good twist too (my troopers did the first 3 tiers and first 7 stages without breaking a sweat, then got picked to pieces).
So I hope the devs add more mythics like this one instead of a single, preloaded TM battle with completely altered enemy kits. Those were difficult and unenjoyable.
^This. I hope the current Ewok mythic will return each time the event returns. OR they tell us it was a one off. So no time is wasted or pulled from current build endeavors.