Han Solo's bonus action
In a Facebook group that I'm in someone asked why their Raid Han wasn't going first. We problem solved this to the following situation. There was no Han on the opposing team, it was an empire team. The battle was happening in TW, and the team had been attacked before. The acting theory is that there was another character in the opposing team that had 100% turn meter, and that they coin flipped for who went first. My understanding is that Han shouldn't have to coin flip with anyone but an opposing Han. Have we missed something, or is that something that needs to be fixed?
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It gives him a bonus turn. A turn in game is 100% TM.
If multiple toons have 100% TM, then it is decided by RNG who goes first.
WAI.
Is that defined somewhere? I don't read "Han takes a bonus action at the start of each encounter" as "Han receives 100% turn meter at the start of each encounter".
More likely what seems more reasonable to me is they didn't give any consideration to the preexisting TM in TW, and gave Han 100% TM as an equivalent way to ensure opposing Han's got their fair shot. But really, I think this should be adjusted, either the wording in the ability, or fix the TW loophole. Know what I mean??
WAI
This. This has been a long standing issue--it is not just a TW thing. There is also the issue of if Han doesn't go first and gets attacked and counters, his counter will stun, but then on his (bonus) turn, his basic won't stun but he'll have all abilities available to him.
it says Turn, not action. No need to change anything as it clearly states Turn. and a turn is 100% TM.
However, I think it’s worth mentioning that the name of the skill is “Shoots First.” Based on the name, it would make more sense to say that Han takes the first action and doesn’t have to roll with other characters at 100% TM, otherwise he would not be shooting first.
It’s just the name and it doesn’t mean much in the rest of the game, but when we talked about NS Zombie’s Endless Horde in reference to Annihilate and Execute, the name was part of the discussion to explain why Endless Horde was WAI.
I know it doesn’t matter, just wanted to say that I can understand why someone would think Han would........shoot first.
Titles are not descriptions.
i.e. -
is it really a trap?
I'm sure there are others that dont make sense when you look at what they do. which is why we have descriptions.
How others use titles to make sense of an ability doesn't make that a catch all reason. But sometimes it helps.
Watch the Start of the battle solo will be at 100% tm and most others will not.
All the other stuff that goes along with that like rng for multiple characters at 100% tm as to who goes first applies.
That said if it us a fresh battle start as far as I can recall there is no other charater that should be at 100% tm other than Han in a pvp scenario. Baze would need opponents to start with 20 buffs, Zaul sith only start with 20%, all droid squad with bb8 would only be at 40%.
I never said titles were descriptions. In fact, I thought I kept the two clearly separated from each other in my comment, while also giving reference to a skill title that was used to describe a skill. Sorry if that confused you. I’ll go dig up the link here in a few.
Um...what? No.
214 is slow for Vader, and I can tell you I fight 1-2 Hans each and every day for the last 3 months and at 227 (still slow) and not once has my Vader gone before a Han...
I'm aware that it's WAI but it is in no way what is described. In case Han is stunned or has his TM reduced by an opponent before taking his bonus turn then he never gets his unresistable stunning bonus turn. In that case he never takes that bonus turn. Yes, he starts off with bonus TM, which is all fine and dandy, but he doesn't act as described. However much you twist and turn the wording in some cases he never takes that bonus turn.
On a similar note:
If any other character is in a situation with multiple characters at 100% TM. This character has a status effect which lasts for 2 turns. His TM is then reduced to less than 100% before performing an action by some other character going first. Shortly after he regains his full TM. Does the status effect then expire? According to the logic in this thread he took his 2 turns already by reaching 100% TM twice even though he didn't take any action the first time.
Another question:
Do 'at the start of turn' effects (F.ex. ST Han with his Bluff ability) happen immediately when the character reaches 100% TM? Or don't they happen until that characters takes an action? According to the logic stated in this thread they should happen immediately when they reach 100% TM (because that's what taking a turn means) and not at the point of taking an action, but I doubt that this is true (just a guess, though).
If multiple characters with such 'start of turn effects' reach 100% TM at the same time will there then be several coin tosses — the first to decide which 'start of turn' effect happens first and the next to decide which character takes the first action? Could the order be different for the two coin tosses? If taking a turn really simply means 'reaching 100% TM' then we should see those two different coin tosses.
If taking a turn really means 'reaching 100% TM' then why don't status effects expire upon reaching 100% TM instead of after the character takes an action?
Again, I'm aware that Han is WAI, but I challenge that it is working as described in his ability description.
Yes, I believe that 100% TM and then reduced from 100% TM counts as a turn. I think (but j could be wrong) that I have seen Han get tmr and then come back and not be locked to only his basic, so yes as the logic is that moment counts as a turn.
As far as status effects they are probably programmed to happen after the action not according to the TM meter. So they may not be effected as the same logic, because they count a turn by the action taken.
But as far as being given a "bonus turn" for han, he is given 100% tm that he didn't "earn" naturally, therefore it is a bonus. Yes it could be coded differently so he gets the "first action" only to coin toss with another Han, but this not what they decided to do. They make all toon subject to the same system.
Haha yeah, absolutely not in arena. Han always goes before Vader, unless something else crazy is going on like the other team also has Han, he stuns your Han, then Vader goes. Speed has literally no impact on Han going first. None of the other characters will have any tm, unless it's something like BB8s zeta, that gives droids tm to start.
Regardless, I gotta agree with people that it does feel misleading. It says bonus turn, as if out of the norm of the round. Like even if he gets stunned by an opposing Han, the language makes it sound like he should still have that bonus turn. I think it wasn't an issue when he first came out, cuz there was very limited situations where this would have an impact. I think it was only possible against another Han, or in GW initially, but there would be very limited situations in GW where it would happen. Much more likely to run into it now with TWs.
So I think the original language didn't matter much initially, but it really should be updated to just say he starts with 100% tm, not that he gets a bonus turn. I get it's wai and has always worked this way, but the game has evolved, and it would clear things up to change the wording.
Yes it is WAD, he recieved 100% TM. That is a "bonus turn" according to the in game mechanics that 100% TM is how you take a turn. If he was given a bonus action, then you would be correct because he didn't take an action.
See my above post, they made all toons subject to the same game mechanics, yes he can lose his ability in that situation, but that doesn't mean he wasnt given 100% TM he didn't earn naturally.
I really think that the intention behind Shoots First did not include being beaten on initiative in TW. Also, sorry for bringing up what's clearly been brought up before, I didn't see a post.
@electricnick260 No. This doesn’t happen. If your Vader has 1000000 speed he won’t go before raid han. If it’s arena, han always goes first unless another hand stuns him. If you could record this I’d be more inclined to believe you.
As it has been previously stated in this thread, Han takes a BONUS TURN therefore, he can, and will, be outrun by some characters if their speeds are high enough. A Darth Vader with 300 speed can in fact out run a Han with 136 speed. It's rare, but it happens. Like I have said several times, IT'S RARE!
Only in TW or GW, NOT in Arena.
Not in arena, as mentioned, and record it in Arena to prove your wild claim
Because they decided to word it differently, and in that case also the toon gaining TM may not be at 0 TM so they may have wanted to differentiate
you are mistaken. at the start of a match in arena or where the other team was not given TM from a previous match, no one has TM from speed. Han will have 100% TM, BB8 with other droids will have TM gained from a unique skill, and maul lead will give the TM from his lead. but toons do not gain TM naturally, when another toon has 100% TM, which Han would. so speed means nothing at that point in time.
@electricnick260 Sorry but no. He always goes first in arena with the exception of another han. A 500 speed Vader couldn’t outrun a 1 speed han IN ARENA.