So, will critical damage mod sets now be useless?
I could be doing the math wrong, but with offense sets increasing to 15%, and critical damage triangles getting the bump to 42% at 6 dot, it seems like cd sets will now very rarely give you more damage than offensive sets. As soon as your critical damage hits 200, then an offense set which gives you +15% offense would then be +30% on a critical hit, right? Which means that even without leader abilities that add to critical damage or critical damage up buffs, a cd of 192 with an offense set would give you ~29% extra damage. So, even in this scenario you’d only get an extra 1% damage on each critical with 15% less on non-criticals. If I did the math right, you’d need to have 96% critical chance for the average damage to break even, more if you factor in critical avoidance and immunity. Maybe useful for Ventress, but I think everyone else that has that hi of cc will have a higher cd as well.
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A full set of CC + CD gives 5% CC and 30% CD, with a triangle it goes to 66% and with the base stat, 216% CD.
With the update, with the same set, you have 8% CC and 216% CD.
On the other hand, with a set of CC + Offense you have 5% CC and 10% offense now while the update will give you a 8% CC and a 15% Offense.
With a character like Han Solo and his Zeta, Crit damage set will always be better than offense set. The reason is simple, his zeta gives 20% CC and he's around 57% base crit chance. So, with 8% more, han is going to be 85% crit chance all by himself, while he'll have only 2559 offense at maximum. With 10% more or 15% more, it's 255 or 385.5 damage that are added at maximum. Now, I'm pretty bad with math but I guess that having a 216 or 222% bonus on crit damage is saying that you multiply your crit damage by 3.16 (1+T/100 -> 1+2.16).
So I'm quite sure this will be better.
Ok, looking back at this, it is the boost from things like Crit Damage up. Even with five dot values, it seems like the extra 5% offense is what is needed to push the multiplicative offense up over the additive crit damage.
I'll have to think about it more and maybe also redo my calculations for Wampa stacking damage, but I won't have time to do that until next week.
For now, I think characters with high CC but no crit damage bonuses may still benefit from CD sets, but offense will be better under extra CD bonuses. Will have to check with Boba lead too.
So in cases where you can boost non-set CD over 200% in the new system, put offense set. Else, CD. I think also offense for CC under 50%.
TLDR; Use CD set when total CC is over 50%, and total boosted CD (without set) is under 200%.
1.15X = X + 0.3, Where X is total critical damage multiplier.
X = 2, or 200% CD.
Under current system, 1.1X = X + 0.3, or X = 3.
You are right, everything in the equation after mods is multiplied, so the order won’t matter.
So it looks like the Crit Damage increase by adding a Crit Damage set will be 16% (assuming we are using a Crit Damage triangle).
Calculating the increase offense with an offense set gets tricky because of offense secondaries. If we assume an offense cross then we are at 1.17 base offense. You could easily add another 10% via secondary mods, although that might be high if it’s not the focus (ex: speed is still the focus). If we assume 5% then that puts us at 1.22 base offense, and an addition 15% is 12% of that.
So we are getting very close there to Crit damages being the same with offense vs Crit Damage mods. Offense seems to be more reliable there.
I can’t imagine it will take that long. With TW we all have a dozen teams we use, each with a unique mod. It shouldn’t be that hard to slice a single one of them.
Won't know till released but I think it will take 2 weeks or more to aquire the Salavge to slice a single 5A mod to 6E.
That would be absolutely terrible if true. At 2 weeks per mod, it would take over 1 year just to upgrade a single arena teams mod, and that’s if the mods are already gold! That’s not workable.
Only spenders get to have nice things, and that’s exactly their target of focus. Just look at the pattern of how things are moving forward.
Exclusivity has always been a word associated with those that have, opposed to the have nots.
Disparity was already a thing with the introduction of mods and those that have speed to those that don’t. Then they introduced marquees, which sure a f2p can get a toon, but those that have can get a fully functional one a half year or more sooner due to Hard Node only. No one could ever forget the doozy that is Sith Raid with its epitome of exclusivity “g12+” for a substantial disparity in the making. Follow that up with the icing on the cake; layer upon layer on top of the already intensive mod system to create yet another substantial gap.
If these people have the audacity to think that anyone in any sense of normal reality could possibly keep up with the top %, then they are completely off their rocker.
They can try fluff it up and toss rainbows at us by saying mod management improvements, and it’s own energy, or marquee means free toon! You all have it so good!
I simply stand in awe at the blatant disgust. Since what good does all of that do in the grand scheme of things? We all have a sense of competitiveness in us. Whether it be PvP, PvE, or otherwise. Yet the vast majority regardless of such competitiveness are forced to swallow the bitter truth that we will never in our lives be able to compete without selling a kidney, risking our posessions to be seized, or just flat out treating this game as if it’s a job.
That is the legacy they are creating. If it could even be measured as such.
They’ve had so many opportunities to close the gap, and make it more dependent on strategy but they refuse. Such as introducing these improvements, but without tier 6 mods. By making Sith tier rewards be a measurement of progress towards the next tier. By placing toons so in more places than just Hard Nodes (and not just the bad ones that have no use anywhere except for TW fodder too).
Point is that they are typically introducing things that add to the grind, the stress, the financial strain, and etc at exponential paces that even the spenders themselves have admitted is difficult to keep up with. Most of these aren’t QoL’s improvements at all. Just more and more instant gratification cash grabs that the majority of us can’t even begin to fathom what it would be like to participate in.
you know its true
Getting a naturaly high crit chance character to the max crit damage possible, then putting offense primary on the plus, and tons of offense, and crit chance on secondary stats is the best way to go.
Meanwhile characters that do special damage have a huge special damage number (meaning the offense % has a bigger effect), and usually nonexistent special crit chance. The offense mods will make them hit drastically harder.
the problem is that a game lasts, and keeps being healthy if the difference isnt that large.
Edited for language. - EA_Cian
Yeah I think the math is pointing to modded cc below 50% go with offense.
Firstly, offense set only gives 15% of offense before you count in offense from mods. Crit damage takes into account all offense from mods. However 30% crit damage increase is not a 30% increase in the damage you inflict when you crit. With no triangle, it is only a 20% increase in damage. with a 6e triangle it is actually a 222/192 = 1.15.. 15% increase in your crit damage.
Since we are talking about maximizing damage with offense or crit damage here, we can assume 3 offense secondaries and one crit damage with the offense set. Offense primaries will give 8.5% offense meaning 3 of them will be a 25.5% increase in offense. This means the amount of offense we get from the offense set will be 1405/1255 = 1.11... an 11% increase in offense This is before offense secondaries are taken into account, which will only decrease the value of the offense set. The primaries not being counted would increase the value. As it is, the break even crit chance point for crit damage vs. offense before secondaries are taken into account is 11/15 = 73% crit chance.
So, counting a crit damage triangle, the breakpoint where crit damage sets will do better than offense is now around 75% crit chance unless you have amazingly high offensive boosts in mod secondaries/primaries.
This value will decrease as more offense secondaries are added, but increase as crit damage bonuses are added in comp.
So, all relevant math included new guideline is around 75% final crit chance (counting mods and leader/composition abilities) is when you start using crit damage over offense.
That’s what you’re saying?
But other than that yes.
Cases:
Purple (Triangle Comparison: No CD Set) | Green (Triangle Comparison: w/CD Set)
Orange (Set Comparison: No CD Triangle) | Blue (Set Comparison: w/CD Triangle)
Cheers.
can you translate this graphic into something resembling english
Looks pretty good. Doesn't seem like you've included a base offense level though. Which since we are talking about maximizing damage, we can usually plan on at least 2 offense primaries making base offense for 5A 111.76%, and 6E 117%. Really we'd probably see further increases in the base % with secondaries and more potential primaries as well, but sticking with 2 primaries as an average base is relatively safe.
This is a relatively minor oversight, but it does skew offense set mods towards being slightly better than they are. Right now the crit chance breakpoint with a set and triangle is closer to 25%.
There are currently only 2 places to get Critical Damage from mods: the Critical Damage set bonus, and the Triangle Mod Primary Stat. That means there are four cases to compare [Comparing Triangle Primary w/o CD Set (Purple); Comparing Triangle Primary w/ CD Set (Green); Comparing Set Bonus w/o CD Triangle (Orange); Comparing Set Bonus w/ CD Triangle (Blue)]. For comparison purposes, I assume all other stats are identical (which is obviously unlikely in reality because we don't all have identical mods lying around, but this is a theoretical exercise). The idea is hold everything else constant and compare the item in question to determine which on average gives more damage. I would not consider these numbers definitive by any means, there are many other factors to consider, but it's how the math worked out for me on average damage.
So for the purple case, lets assume we had two identical Triangle mods, except one has Critical Damage as the primary stat, and the other has Offense as the primary stat and you do not have a Critical Damage set bonus. All your other mods and mod bonuses are identical. Currently with 5A mods, if your critical chance is above 17.79%, it is on average better to use a Triangle mod with Critical Damage rather than offense. If we upgraded both of these mods to 6E mods, then your critical chance would have to be higher than 22.52% for the critical damage primary to yield more damage than the offense primary.
The green case repeats the purple case, but assuming you do have a CD set active.
For the orange case, lets assume we had two identical mod sets, except one is a Critical Damage set bonus and the other has an Offense set bonus and you do not have a critical damage primary on the triangle. All of the other stats and bonuses on all your other mods are the same. Currently with 5A mods, if your critical chance is above 40%, it is on average better to use a Critical Damage set than an Offense set. If we upgraded both of these sets to 6E mods, then your critical chance would have to be higher than 66.67% for the critical damage set to yield more damage, otherwise the offense set would be better.
The final blue case repeats the orange case, but assuming you do have a CD triangle.
Woodroward, unless I am misunderstanding how critical damage is applied (which is certainly a possibility, I by no means claim to have perfect knowledge of the game), base offense doesn't matter. To use the saying: a high tide raises all ships. If offense goes up, it increases critical and non-critical damage by the same percentage to their original values. It starts in the equation I used, but actually cancels out (see attached).
I'll give it a whirl.