Does anyone else think Vader's "no escape" zeta is completely useless?

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  • For bastilla teams I use IPD with zeta. Works well. And I agree Vader ship still one of the best and still meta
  • VonZant wrote: »
    kevsmart wrote: »
    VonZant wrote: »
    Tempted to remove him from nightmare and replace him with Sith assassin. The Bastila plague has hit my shard hard and Vader can't land any of his debuffs. Maybe I need to pump his potency higher.

    If you're running EP teams against Bastila teams you are going to lose no matter what Sith you put in there.

    False. Put marauder in and profit $$. His pot up is pretty much game over for bastilla, unless they are running an aoe cleanser (which no one does).

    Oh did not think about him and dont have him farmed. How does it work?

    Tell me tell me tell me how you do that trick.

    His special gives the team potency up
  • The zeta has its uses. While it doesn't swing the team it does stop tm removal teams from keeping vader from going. Yes, ability block and stun still work but having to use it on vader makes it where you aren't using it on someone else. So in that way it helps. And the healing helps in some situations. I'll admit that usually it doesn't swing the battle but healing on applying debuffs under ep lead and on dot expiration does help keep vader alive longer. And even if he's kept locked down being alive means the other team has to keep him stunned or ability blocked rather than doing it to someone else. And even if he is ability blocked he can still apply ability block on his basic which can still be helpful. Better than being dead. At the time of his rework, the zeta along with other additions to his kit made him good but not unbeatable which is a good balance. I would love to see him get future reworks to keep him relevant but it isn't his zeta being bad that made him less good, it is power creep.
  • Completely useless? No, not at all. No Escape was added to Vader's kit to counter the CLS teams that were dominating the squad arena. Alongside the EP rework, Vader became an extremely powerful character. Everybody was using him and loving it, we finally had a Vader to be feared!

    He is not as effective against the teams running around in arena today, but that does not mean the zeta is now useless.
  • It's very useful. If I don't land ability block or daze with jtr which happens once in a while, the battle goes downhill.
  • kevsmart wrote: »
    My only issue with the no escape zeta is tie pilot is faster in arena with no zetas and Vader with two.

    My personal gripe

    There are 9 ships faster than Vader, really has nothing to do with anything.

    Has everything to do with fleet. If vader goes first and target locks and tiefighter and biggs uses specials it is a completely different scenario than an rng target lock tie fighter goes first.

    With the tarkin zetas the speed increase vs other ships is evident with zeta addition. Vader zeta addition has zero effect that is noticeable in Fleet arena. So in effect both zetas are worthless when it comes to fleet battles. Poor choice for zeta spending.

    You must not play fleet on a very active shard to not realize this kevsmart.

    I love it when Vader or FOTP target lock my guys. That pulls Biggs taunt, and my Geos rip him apart. Two moves he is dead. Stun him with Fac and assist with geo spy, all 3 Geos attack +1 more attack, and Biggs is down. Then it's time to bring Poe in and take out tie pilot or Vader and it's game over usually after one reinforcement. And it all starts with that Biggs taunt.
  • Having the fastest vader is a huge advantage in Fleet. If your TFP target locks their vader, and their TFP doesn't target lock, your vader will TM reduce and ability block the enemy vader, and then your biggs will take it out with an assist attack. The fleet battle is then over.
    Same scenario above is repeatable with enemy biggs. Or it could happen to your fleet if you have the slower vader.
  • KueChael wrote: »
    IMO, Vader and most of his abilities center around DoTs and TM Reduction. With characters like Wampa and even Zidious, and most recently Zaalbar, The DoTs will flow.
    I’m always eager to see how the game modes, (raids, TW, TB and arena) and new character introductions could improve or make powerful this zeta.

    that's true but the problem with that is Wampa, Zaalbar and Mission don't trigger the TM Reduction as they are not Sith or empire, which is why I think they should of dropped the sith/empire requirement. what I would of done with his leader is keep the TM reduction same but for all allies, dropped the 30% offense and replaced with 5% tenacity/Potency/offence/defence per DoT (max stack 10) to all allies
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Back when I ran Vader against JTR teams try would often target Vader with her TM remove ability. Same for cls or when ever raid ham basics him. It's not the worst zeta. Sure a player isn't **** but the AI defence is
    Plus nest can't slow him down

    In both the cases, he's already ability blocked/dazed. Which makes him taking a turn useless anyway.

    It's a great zeta for the ship, but overall? Hardly useful. Only good counter is against raid han, and hardly anyone runs him these days.

    There is more to the game than arena.

    Totally useless, no. It speeds his ship up, therefore it has at least 1 use.

    On top of that, raids, TW, and TB. He is a great lead and that zeta adds survivability which is very important in all those game modes.

    sorry if asked, but zetas do help ships? speed/and/or?
  • Ultra
    1174 posts Member
    Gifafi wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Back when I ran Vader against JTR teams try would often target Vader with her TM remove ability. Same for cls or when ever raid ham basics him. It's not the worst zeta. Sure a player isn't **** but the AI defence is
    Plus nest can't slow him down

    In both the cases, he's already ability blocked/dazed. Which makes him taking a turn useless anyway.

    It's a great zeta for the ship, but overall? Hardly useful. Only good counter is against raid han, and hardly anyone runs him these days.

    There is more to the game than arena.

    Totally useless, no. It speeds his ship up, therefore it has at least 1 use.

    On top of that, raids, TW, and TB. He is a great lead and that zeta adds survivability which is very important in all those game modes.

    sorry if asked, but zetas do help ships? speed/and/or?
    Sometimes the zeta increases speed of ship. Its different for every ship / pilot. Some get 1 speed increase per zeta and some might get a speed increase if you equip 2 zetas.

    Speed is the most important factor in ships so other stats are largely ignored (health / protection / damage increases) when it comes to the discussion of equipping a zeta on a pilot and what stats it changes on that particular ship

  • MangaMan wrote: »
    KueChael wrote: »
    IMO, Vader and most of his abilities center around DoTs and TM Reduction. With characters like Wampa and even Zidious, and most recently Zaalbar, The DoTs will flow.
    I’m always eager to see how the game modes, (raids, TW, TB and arena) and new character introductions could improve or make powerful this zeta.

    that's true but the problem with that is Wampa, Zaalbar and Mission don't trigger the TM Reduction as they are not Sith or empire, which is why I think they should of dropped the sith/empire requirement. what I would of done with his leader is keep the TM reduction same but for all allies, dropped the 30% offense and replaced with 5% tenacity/Potency/offence/defence per DoT (max stack 10) to all allies

    I like your enthusiasm, but:

    1) this thread is months old
    2) it was never even about Vader's lead zeta, it was his unique.
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  • Anyone who doesn't have a G12+ Vader with the health steal pieces should consider this a decent (but not great) zeta depending on what type of guild they are in, their Vader's current gear level, and what areas they use him in. Depending on your arena shard the TMR immunity can still be quite beneficial too, as there are still plenty of compositions out there with CLS + Han. Gives them pause to consider your zPalp team vs someone else's.

    I run a zVader lead in numerous areas, including raids and TB, and the ability to heal himself by DoTs seems worth it alone.
  • I've found the second zeta useful in DSTB. I like running Zader lead because the AI will waste a bunch of turns trying to cleanse DOTs. The heals have pulled out some extra wins for me when Vader ends up the last one standing in wave 4.
  • MangaMan wrote: »
    KueChael wrote: »
    IMO, Vader and most of his abilities center around DoTs and TM Reduction. With characters like Wampa and even Zidious, and most recently Zaalbar, The DoTs will flow.
    I’m always eager to see how the game modes, (raids, TW, TB and arena) and new character introductions could improve or make powerful this zeta.

    that's true but the problem with that is Wampa, Zaalbar and Mission don't trigger the TM Reduction as they are not Sith or empire, which is why I think they should of dropped the sith/empire requirement. what I would of done with his leader is keep the TM reduction same but for all allies, dropped the 30% offense and replaced with 5% tenacity/Potency/offence/defence per DoT (max stack 10) to all allies

    I like your enthusiasm, but:

    1) this thread is months old
    2) it was never even about Vader's lead zeta, it was his unique.

    I know but the person I was talking to was talking about his leader skill. IMO his Unique had potential but is extremely specialized.
  • Back when I ran Vader against JTR teams try would often target Vader with her TM remove ability. Same for cls or when ever raid ham basics him. It's not the worst zeta. Sure a player isn't **** but the AI defence is
    Plus nest can't slow him down

    Only good counter is against raid han, and hardly anyone runs him these days.

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