The Paper Zombie Nerf

Ariella

It’s going to happen one way or another. This is not to discuss the reasons why but the possibilities to make it palatable.

My feeling is that Zombie should be rebuilt in such a way that so long as she is taunting, Nightsister allies gain bonuses.
The premise here is that you’re incentivised to build a steel hard G12 Zombie so that she isn’t dying from 1-2 hits off the bat, but rather continues to taunt and therefore share bonuses.

There are a lot of existing game mechanics at the disposal of the development team to apply as bonuses. Here are a few I like the sound of:

While taunting, share the following with NS allies:
Offence Up
Health Steal Up
Daze immunity

A Zombie “Stance” (similar mechanic to CLS)
This was a really interesting idea suggested by an alliance member (JessicaSky).
This would be an interesting opportunity to offer players the best of both worlds:
The default stance could be strong and equivalent to gear level, the optional stance could be weak.
Here’s a couple of ideas:
Default Stance: While Zombie has taunt, Nightsister allies are immune to Daze. Nightsister Zombie gains Health Up and Protection up equal to 5% of combined allied Nightsister health and protection.
(This would be excellent for Arena, TW & TB and a great reason to gear up Zombie)
Optional Stance: Nightsister Zombie’s health and protection pool are reduced by 75%. Nightsister allies gain Offence Up and Health Steel Up.
(This would significantly weaken the G12 Zombie and enable players to still utilise the classic paper zombie tactic, but with the added bonus of extra health steel which would be desirable in raids)
I think the stance skill itself would have to be added as a new special ability and at a high gear level (I.e. existing paper zombies couldn’t benefit from the optional stance making them even weaker, which would defeat the point). So say G9 or 10, which would be a little unusual for a character as I think G7 is currently the highest gate for a skill.

Anyways... feel free to critique (I’m aware it’s quite a lot to ask for!) or throw in your own ideas about how Zombie could be re-worked in a such a way that might satisfy all sorts of NS users, but within the spirit of the game.

Please don’t derail to discuss the rights and wrongs of whether she ought to be changed - I’m pretty sure it’s coming and would rather see more voices heard on how that might look. And besides, there are plenty of other threads and Discord channels to rant in about

freshprince19888

Many of the other nightsisters skills are based off of things dying. If you make zombie not die its a heavy nerf for the whole team. The solution should be that zombie's health and protection go down as her gear goes up. This would keep the mechanics while making the paper zombie ineffective.

Dazewalker

I think this is an excellent compromise. It encourages people expend resources on gear and abilities which is inline with the dev game plan and it provides incentive for players to gear her something that doesn't exist at the moment. I like the if/then of the stance I think it is a mechanic that hasn't been utilized enough in the game.

cannonfodder_iv

Could also lock the last part of the ability behind a zeta, like Call to Action on CLS (while continuing to keep it gated behind a higher gear level). Great idea. I would feel differently about this 'change' than a straight up nerf of invested resources since you're not taking anything away from the player (ahem, Reaper), just forcing them to invest to maximize a character's utility.

Ariella

Another method to encourage high gear level could be to link the health and protection % reduction in the weak stance directly to gear tier.
So you could still unlock the Stance ability at G8 which is in line with some other characters (such as BH payouts), but the lower your gear level, the less your health/Protection is reduced by the weak stance, and also, the less % offence/heal steal you gain?
Just a thought there ;-)

yossgold

I personally love the stance idea. Very underutilized in the game and perfect for Zombie. Make her worth gearing up without killing my boo in the process (Old Daka, in case you were wondering who my boo is)

Whiteroom

Another idea could be like Old Ben. Give her a double taunt. That way they would either need to kill her to get to the others or have two dispellers?

Ramborn1988

I really like this stance idea. Means those who have geared up zombie won't be regretting gearing her. In fact it will be better to gear up zombie for both stances but also allows people who currently have paper zombie and used zeta on daka and ventres unique ability to feel like they have not wasted 2 zeta which would be the case if the complete paper zombie relationship with their zetas was completely removed.

metal_samurai

interesting ideas here. i'd like to see the taunt harder to get rid of too, be it like ben's double taunt as someone else here suggested or simply make the taunt locked until the first time the zombie dies. that would certainly make you want her as durable as possible.

Ariella

metal_samurai wrote: »

interesting ideas here. i'd like to see the taunt harder to get rid of too, be it like ben's double taunt as someone else here suggested or simply make the taunt locked until the first time the zombie dies. that would certainly make you want her as durable as possible.

Mmm I’ve heard the Ben double taunt suggestion a few times

Pepsiholicman

Add a zeta ability that can only be obtained at gear X or XII and it would be that taunt cannot be dispelled. This would get rid of DN clearing taunt on his first turn then annihilate someone else

DaPowerfulJedi

Pepsiholicman wrote: »

Add a zeta ability that can only be obtained at gear X or XII and it would be that taunt cannot be dispelled. This would get rid of DN clearing taunt on his first turn then annihilate someone else

Taunting is not the problem with zombie, the problem is that when she dies over and over because she doesn’t have much gear, your nightsisters get bonuses, such as bonus turn meter, stacking health and stacking damage. A well geared zombie doesn’t die as often because it’s strong, so your team doesn’t get as many bonuses. We need to find a way to get more bonuses with a stronger zombie, probably by making a strong one die more easily, and a weak one less easily.

Ariella

DaPowerfulJedi wrote: »

Pepsiholicman wrote: »

Add a zeta ability that can only be obtained at gear X or XII and it would be that taunt cannot be dispelled. This would get rid of DN clearing taunt on his first turn then annihilate someone else

Taunting is not the problem with zombie, the problem is that when she dies over and over because she doesn’t have much gear, your nightsisters get bonuses, such as bonus turn meter, stacking health and stacking damage. A well geared zombie doesn’t die as often because it’s strong, so your team doesn’t get as many bonuses. We need to find a way to get more bonuses with a stronger zombie, probably by making a strong one die more easily, and a weak one less easily.

While I think it would be really interesting to see an inverse relationship between gear level and survival, so that those bonuses can be fed to the likes of Asajj and Daka upon death, don't forget that there are circumstances where a strong Zombie is useful.
TB, TW, Arena, and indeed Phase 3 of the Sith raid can all work just as well if not better with a stronger Zombie than weaker one. This is why my overall feeling was that a stance would be the best solution here, making the Zombie extremely adaptable to different needs.