Instead turns should be RNG based (at least in Arena), this would make most characters viable. Or at least the first turn should be RNG based, then all other turns afterwards could remain determined by speed. Thoughts?
This actually wouldn't fix squat. I'll still find a way to make this work to my advantage. And it will be the same people loosing asking for some other change instead of figuring how to win.
Sorry if that sounds harsh but I don't know how else to say it.
You can't not have a speed aspect in a fighting game. That just won't work. Speed isn't the problem here, it's too much damage and little HP. If those were fixed then having faster characters won't make much of a difference but you cannot just ignore speed completely and make everything random
I'm all for this! Let's take away speed. Make everyone's stats the EXACT SAME but they can all have different abilities. But I want all those abilities to damage and or heal the exact same as well.
And while we're at it lets just do away with all these names toons. Some are way cooler than others and that upsets me. They should just switch over to using numbers. Come to think of it though, someone would have to be number 1 and that wouldn't be fair to number 2. So maybe skip that and we can just start naming them ourselves
I'm all for this! Let's take away speed. Make everyone's stats the EXACT SAME but they can all have different abilities. But I want all those abilities to damage and or heal the exact same as well.
And while we're at it lets just do away with all these names toons. Some are way cooler than others and that upsets me. They should just switch over to using numbers. Come to think of it though, someone would have to be number 1 and that wouldn't be fair to number 2. So maybe skip that and we can just start naming them ourselves
I understand your thought, first turn is too important. The real fix though would be increasing health/armor across the board so that you can't kill people before they get a turn. Also doesn't make sense that the hardest hitting characters are also the fastest.
Why not just make the win a coin flip? You hit battle and rng gives you who won...
Having speed actually adds some strategy to the battles.
The reason everyone is using the same teams is because of the mechanics of the arena battle is fought, not true pvp. If it was there would be many more viable and different teams.
It shouldn't be removed, but it should be less important than it is now. You shouldn't have characters that can move twice in the time another moves once.
And the excess damage relative to health and armor makes this worse. If tanks could actually tank, speed would become much less important as there would be time for slower teams to get set up and working.
I understand your thought, first turn is too important. The real fix though would be increasing health/armor across the board so that you can't kill people before they get a turn. Also doesn't make sense that the hardest hitting characters are also the fastest.
or......Or.......OR!!!!! Make armor do something, besides nothing.
than you go back to the POE status, Poe goes first, than now all your team would go first even slow like FOTP
There are so many chars you don't even realize you have so little knowledge of this it appalling to read. My eyes are burning by the though of the myriad other chars that can make your team go first if speed is changed, starting with Talia, Phasma (with team advantage buff!), FOO and many others.
Guys, accept it, eliminating speed wreaks the entire (flimsy) balance of the game remaining. Fast chars should hit less because they go first, and more often. If Rey could go last, she'd no be viable. If Dooku goes last same thing.
What I propose is something in the middle: make speed a highly probable but not an absolute certainty. Give chars a random +\- chance to go 1-10% faster or slower each game.
Speed is fine. Make defense and Armor scale better with level/star level and you have a different game, with more viablity for the likes of Chewie and such.
☮ Consular ☮American Rebel Rebel Force (Endor)JedhaYavin IV
I understand your thought, first turn is too important. The real fix though would be increasing health/armor across the board so that you can't kill people before they get a turn. Also doesn't make sense that the hardest hitting characters are also the fastest.
or......Or.......OR!!!!! Make armor do something, besides nothing.
It DOES do something. 30 off of that 6749 double-shot Rey just got you with. See? It's only 6719.
In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie
In game guild: TNR Uprising I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
You can't not have a speed aspect in a fighting game. That just won't work. Speed isn't the problem here, it's too much damage and little HP. If those were fixed then having faster characters won't make much of a difference but you cannot just ignore speed completely and make everything random
Absolutely agree. Damage to Health ratio actually balloons as you level up, since the armour damage mitigation formula is as follows:
So yes, damage reduction % did go up significantly. But compared to Offense up for say, a base damage of 3000:
Normal damage, Normal Defense = 3000 * (1 - 0.2222) = 2333.4
Normal damage, Defense up = 3000 * (1 - 0.3000) = 2100
Offense up damage, Normal Defense = (3000 * 1.5) * (1 - 0.2222) = 3500.1
Offense up damage, Defense up = (3000 * 1.5) * (1 - 0.3000) = 3150
From these simple calulations, it is painfully obvious why defense becomes more and more irrelevant as level goes up.
Yes, health and armour does go up with increased level, but the net damage mitigation % does not seem to go up to compensate for ever increasing damage, hence the rampant 1 or 2 shotting of even the tankiest characters. Not to mention absurd design flaws such as GS being allowed to go to Gear Level 9 and thus, being much faster and toughe than he's supposed to be. Another case of a glass cannon that's made of metal, like FOTP, only worse because he's a death star that can outrun and outmaneuver an X-Wing.
What I propose is something in the middle: make speed a highly probable but not an absolute certainty. Give chars a random +\- chance to go 1-10% faster or slower each game.
.....and I disagree. This will bring us back to the coin-flip era (where speed was in tiers)where everyone took coinflips to see who started first. At least with the new speed changes we can better theorize who starts first and so on and formulate a strategy against it.
Second, giving characters a chance to go 1-10% chance enables more dps characters and characters with potent abilities (etc, poe/phasma/han/old ben) to go first. Not only does this not solve the current issue, it will also exacerbate the problem further.
Randomness is nice(etc crit) but too much randomness will only make people feel that their counters aren't working(e.g dooku against qgj) because the extra randomness in speed allows their target to move before them.
I understand your thought, first turn is too important. The real fix though would be increasing health/armor across the board so that you can't kill people before they get a turn. Also doesn't make sense that the hardest hitting characters are also the fastest.
or......Or.......OR!!!!! Make armor do something, besides nothing.
In the next level cap there are gonna be some seriously high hp toons. I honestly think that by that time the meta will be much different and we will all be singing praised to any toon like GS or Rey who can put a dent in them before Bariss equalizes.
Speed is no the problem. Lack of HP and DEF system is. Cant see where in the seven hells a QGJ is one shoted by a GS when you are talking about SW franchising.
Replies
Sorry if that sounds harsh but I don't know how else to say it.
Darn trolls smell the food and they come into the forums. Always throw away your garbage and use zipblock bags
And while we're at it lets just do away with all these names toons. Some are way cooler than others and that upsets me. They should just switch over to using numbers. Come to think of it though, someone would have to be number 1 and that wouldn't be fair to number 2. So maybe skip that and we can just start naming them ourselves
I call buttface
Having speed actually adds some strategy to the battles.
The reason everyone is using the same teams is because of the mechanics of the arena battle is fought, not true pvp. If it was there would be many more viable and different teams.
Would be cool though if, on the character screen, you could sort by more stats
And the excess damage relative to health and armor makes this worse. If tanks could actually tank, speed would become much less important as there would be time for slower teams to get set up and working.
or......Or.......OR!!!!! Make armor do something, besides nothing.
I disagree.
Pwned
There are so many chars you don't even realize you have so little knowledge of this it appalling to read. My eyes are burning by the though of the myriad other chars that can make your team go first if speed is changed, starting with Talia, Phasma (with team advantage buff!), FOO and many others.
Guys, accept it, eliminating speed wreaks the entire (flimsy) balance of the game remaining. Fast chars should hit less because they go first, and more often. If Rey could go last, she'd no be viable. If Dooku goes last same thing.
What I propose is something in the middle: make speed a highly probable but not an absolute certainty. Give chars a random +\- chance to go 1-10% faster or slower each game.
It DOES do something. 30 off of that 6749 double-shot Rey just got you with. See? It's only 6719.
In game guild: TNR Uprising
I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
No, not at all, we are all entitled to our opinion. I just don't agree.
Absolutely agree. Damage to Health ratio actually balloons as you level up, since the armour damage mitigation formula is as follows:
Damage Reduction % = (Armour) / (Armour + Level * 10) * 100
For instance, let's use a level 70 character with 200 armour as an example:
Damage Reduction % = (200) / (200 + 70 * 10) * 100 = 22.22%
Let's say he gets defense up and thus, + 50% armour:
Damage Reduction % = (200 * 1.5) / (200 * 1.5 + 70 * 10) * 100 = 30%
So yes, damage reduction % did go up significantly. But compared to Offense up for say, a base damage of 3000:
Normal damage, Normal Defense = 3000 * (1 - 0.2222) = 2333.4
Normal damage, Defense up = 3000 * (1 - 0.3000) = 2100
Offense up damage, Normal Defense = (3000 * 1.5) * (1 - 0.2222) = 3500.1
Offense up damage, Defense up = (3000 * 1.5) * (1 - 0.3000) = 3150
From these simple calulations, it is painfully obvious why defense becomes more and more irrelevant as level goes up.
Yes, health and armour does go up with increased level, but the net damage mitigation % does not seem to go up to compensate for ever increasing damage, hence the rampant 1 or 2 shotting of even the tankiest characters. Not to mention absurd design flaws such as GS being allowed to go to Gear Level 9 and thus, being much faster and toughe than he's supposed to be. Another case of a glass cannon that's made of metal, like FOTP, only worse because he's a death star that can outrun and outmaneuver an X-Wing.
.....and I disagree. This will bring us back to the coin-flip era (where speed was in tiers)where everyone took coinflips to see who started first. At least with the new speed changes we can better theorize who starts first and so on and formulate a strategy against it.
Second, giving characters a chance to go 1-10% chance enables more dps characters and characters with potent abilities (etc, poe/phasma/han/old ben) to go first. Not only does this not solve the current issue, it will also exacerbate the problem further.
Randomness is nice(etc crit) but too much randomness will only make people feel that their counters aren't working(e.g dooku against qgj) because the extra randomness in speed allows their target to move before them.
In the next level cap there are gonna be some seriously high hp toons. I honestly think that by that time the meta will be much different and we will all be singing praised to any toon like GS or Rey who can put a dent in them before Bariss equalizes.
Total guess on my part though