Is there a bug with GW matchmaking?

Prev1
AOHNH
43 posts Member
edited November 22
I've seen many posts saying that there's probably a bug with GW. Lately, the matchmaking has been getting more and more king sofa (rev) bad, I now I'm thinking there's a lot of truth to those posts.

Node 3 is almost always easy. It's supposed to be a team below your arena GP, right? Today there's an unbeatable brick wall team on it. This doesn't make any sense. It's like matchmaking goes nuts and picks a team based on your cumulative GP and not just the arena team.

Why are we, the players, being ignored by the developers? There's a problem with GW, it needs to be acknowledged and addressed.

Replies

  • Waqui
    3750 posts Member
    Arena teams have nothing to do with GW matchmaking. Neither does GP. Matchmaking is still based on the old power rating called stat power of your 5 highest power toons — disregarding what your arena team is. One difference between GP and stat power is, that zetas don't influence stat power.

    I believe the first problem here is to understand how GW matchmaking is actually designed/implemented.
  • Waqui wrote: »
    I believe the first problem here is to understand how GW matchmaking is actually designed/implemented.

    Can't see the forest for the trees.


    Prior to early October there weren't teams with 1.5-2x your top 5 chars in GP on any single node. If your top 5 were in the 25k range, your hardest battle GP wise would be about 30K. I do know synergy doesn't count. I do know that things like Zetas do not count. But if the abilites don't count for the opponent Galactic War Power Rating (I made that term up to mean WHATEVER score the GW sytem uses to determine your opponents) they sure as heck don't count for yours. I don't know all the Galactic War Power Rating specifics, but i do know that under ZERO circumstances should a 25K GP top 5 account be facing a team with 50K power on any node in a GW. And I had never seen it happen prior to early October.
  • Until you can see Stat Power again, you can't definitively claim that there's a bug. I believe someone has already logged it at Answers HQ anyway.
  • How is this acceptable:
    96d4uv1vdyvf.png

    2rfhn9amu3q5.png

    z9w2f6hq8mhk.png

    0az9hda689jr.png

    arpdsl4rbxsm.png

    evpx0l3eo1xe.png

    ro7sdj4z2r1h.png

    over 70,000 GP with 3 G10 and 2 G8 against a top 5 of just under 22000 with barely 3 G7 characters??

    Something is wrong with GW. The sooner people stop worrying about the semantics of the EXACT way it determines opponents and see the bigger picture, hopefully the faster we can get some answers.





  • Jpplayer
    35 posts Member
    edited November 22
    Thank you !!
  • AOHNH
    43 posts Member
    edited November 22
    Waqui wrote: »
    I believe the first problem here is to understand how GW matchmaking is actually designed/implemented.
    Well, some players are posting that it's based on arena team and some say that it's based on top 5 chars. I've even seen a quote being posted that made it look like devs themselves said it was based on the highest GP arena win.

    In my case the two scenarios are the same anyways.

    But in the end, like the above poster said, it doesn't really matter. There's a problem with GW matchmaking system. It needs to be addressed.
  • Waqui
    3750 posts Member
    BucMan55 wrote: »
    How is this acceptable:

    Acceptable? The OP is discussing a possible bug in the GW matchmaking. Discussing wether it's acceptable or not is a discussion of the design. A bug would be if the implementation doesn't match the specification/design.

  • Waqui
    3750 posts Member
    AOHNH wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    I believe the first problem here is to understand how GW matchmaking is actually designed/implemented.
    Well, some players are posting that it's based on arena team and some say that it's based on top 5 chars. I've even seen a quote being posted that made it look like devs themselves said it was based on the highest GP arena win.

    Highest arena win? That was the widely accepted theory back in 2016. What's the date of that quote?
  • BucMan55
    169 posts Member
    edited November 23
    Waqui wrote: »
    AOHNH wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    I believe the first problem here is to understand how GW matchmaking is actually designed/implemented.
    Well, some players are posting that it's based on arena team and some say that it's based on top 5 chars. I've even seen a quote being posted that made it look like devs themselves said it was based on the highest GP arena win.

    Highest arena win? That was the widely accepted theory back in 2016. What's the date of that quote?

    Latest I had seen was top 5 of your roster, regardless of if they had been used in a squad together.

    And by my previous comment of acceptable, I am meaning as in acceptable to a properly functioning GW matchmaking system. Answer: It isn't.

    Longer answer:

    Since this phenomenon only recently appeared in the beginning of October, we can deduce that it is indeed some kind of error. Having gone thru probably 1000 GWs over several devices and family accounts who play, to not see it ONE time from the time I got in to GW in April of 2018 til the beginning of October would indeed be one hell of a lucky stretch. I have seen it about every other day since then. Usually in battles that aren't usually hard(like 1-5 or 7, and 8).
  • Waqui
    3750 posts Member
    BucMan55 wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    AOHNH wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    I believe the first problem here is to understand how GW matchmaking is actually designed/implemented.
    Well, some players are posting that it's based on arena team and some say that it's based on top 5 chars. I've even seen a quote being posted that made it look like devs themselves said it was based on the highest GP arena win.

    Highest arena win? That was the widely accepted theory back in 2016. What's the date of that quote?

    Latest I had seen was top 5 of your roster, regardless of if they had been used in a squad together.

    Same for me.
    And by my previous comment of acceptable, I am meaning as in acceptable to a properly functioning GW matchmaking system. Answer: It isn't.

    Yes, that was obvious

    (Continues)

  • Waqui
    3750 posts Member
    BucMan55 wrote: »
    Longer answer:

    Since this phenomenon only recently appeared in the beginning of October, we can deduce that it is indeed some kind of error. Having gone thru probably 1000 GWs over several devices and family accounts who play, to not see it ONE time from the time I got in to GW in April of 2018 til the beginning of October would indeed be one hell of a lucky stretch. I have seen it about every other day since then. Usually in battles that aren't usually hard(like 1-5 or 7, and 8).

    The best way forward is to document those cases with screen shots of both teams and calculations of stat power and then submit it to CG/EA.

  • Honestly, it doesn't look like CG/EA cares that much. GW feedback is flooded with simple complaints, elaborate explanations, and tons of examples. There's no reply. Not even "we're looking into this".
  • They’re pretty happy with it, it hasn’t changed that much in the past 3 years despite thousands and thousands of complaints about it lol.
    The Sim option implemented doesn’t help you since it requires you to complete 150.
    The difficulty cap at the top end doesn’t affect you either since that only kicks in when you’re 85.
    That’s pretty much the only 2 changes I know to GW.
    So yea, unless you can prove that there’s a bug, you can shove your complaints together with the other few thousand complaints in the GW mega thread.
  • Huatimus wrote: »
    So yea, unless you can prove that there’s a bug, you can shove your complaints together with the other few thousand complaints in the GW mega thread.

    Those are the only documented changes to GW.


    Again, unless I was historically lucky, I made it from April to the time documented in early October without the OP teams showing up on over 1000 GW campaigns(I have several devices, and several family members who play - and nobody saw this until early October)....The complaints on here before that were at least teams in the same ballpark as the one complaining, just OP based on zetas(not counted) or synergy(again not counted).

    An account with a 70000 GP top 5 facing an 80000 GP CLS team with Zetas is not the same issue as an account with a 22000 top 5 facing a 45000 team. (or the 70000 team I just documented at the top of this thread)

    There really is only two options. One it is a bug. Or two it is intentional. The only thing that makes me think it is a bug is going 4-5 months without seeing it - and seeing it at least every other day since on accounts who just got into GW thru level 85 accounts.
  • AOHNH wrote: »
    Honestly, it doesn't look like CG/EA cares that much. GW feedback is flooded with simple complaints, elaborate explanations, and tons of examples. There's no reply. Not even "we're looking into this".


    I tried to consolidate but the thread got watered down with semantic arguments over how we can't determine if the system is broken because we don't know the minutia of how it works. I have posted pics of when this stuff happens hoping we can get a dev to check it out. Not going to hold my breath though.
  • AOHNH wrote: »
    Honestly, it doesn't look like CG/EA cares that much. GW feedback is flooded with simple complaints, elaborate explanations, and tons of examples. There's no reply. Not even "we're looking into this".

    And the reason they don't care much is the choir of "you're doing it wrong" and "it's always been this way" from older players who have never faced this issue in this severe form and can't fathom that something has changed. As long as the devs read five reassurances that everything is working fine from players who don't have to put up with this issue for every bug report, they're not going to act.
  • AOHNH
    43 posts Member
    edited November 26
    And the reason they don't care much is the choir of "you're doing it wrong" and "it's always been this way" from older players who have never faced this issue in this severe form and can't fathom that something has changed. As long as the devs read five reassurances that everything is working fine from players who don't have to put up with this issue for every bug report, they're not going to act.
    I really wish all these posts from older players would stop already. They're all long time at 85, have been simming for months, and don't have a good idea what the new players are experiencing. I keep seeing some posts like "I went from 50 to 150 without losing" and can't help myself but call that a straight out lie. It's just not possible with the current matchmaking system for players under 85.
  • AOHNH wrote: »
    I really wish all these posts from older players would stop already. They're all long time at 85, have been simming for months, and don't have a good idea what the new players are experiencing. I keep seeing some posts like "I went from 50 to 150 without losing" and can't help myself but call that a straight out lie. It's just not possible with the current matchmaking system for players under 85.


    I didn't do all 150 in a row, but got there pretty easily, especially after I got Bastila. But that was before the issue that plagues us now. I do have other accounts(PC, tablet, phone guest acct, family) that I see regularly that aren't at 150 so it is easy for me to see the issue.

    Pro tip for those in the 50-60 range. Get Bastila and 4 other Jedi. My son has ran into teams that are much higher power then him according to the GW power by node research and has been able to either outright defeat them, or use a lower power team to take out one or two guys, and then finish easily with Bastila Jedi.

    Empire with Tarkin lead, Vader, Tie Pilot, Snowtrooper, and RG are quite formidable if you keep them up with the rest of your roster(helps to get a couple 10 pack bonus shards from the bronziums on RG and Snow). Think he said they(19k power) beat a team that was almost 30K. Well, only Vader and Tie Pilot survived, but he got thru that battle 9 to go on and complete the war.
  • Waqui
    3750 posts Member
    AOHNH wrote: »
    Honestly, it doesn't look like CG/EA cares that much. GW feedback is flooded with simple complaints, elaborate explanations, and tons of examples. There's no reply. Not even "we're looking into this".

    And the reason they don't care much is the choir of "you're doing it wrong" and "it's always been this way" from older players who have never faced this issue in this severe form and can't fathom that something has changed. As long as the devs read five reassurances that everything is working fine from players who don't have to put up with this issue for every bug report, they're not going to act.

    "Older players who have never faced this issue" can still analyze well documenred complaints and give critique to the ones, where the matchmaking appears to be as designed (cases with no apparent bugs).

    "Older players who have never faced this issue" can still ask posters, who include no detail or documentation with their simple complaint, to provide details and documentation.

    Complaints with no details and no documentation is just noise and won't be taken seriously by the devs. Complaints when there's not problem and everything is working as intended is just noise. Those types of complaints just water everything down, and may cover the complaints where the complainer may have a point.
  • FerLandrossa
    135 posts Member
    edited November 26
    AOHNH wrote: »
    And the reason they don't care much is the choir of "you're doing it wrong" and "it's always been this way" from older players who have never faced this issue in this severe form and can't fathom that something has changed. As long as the devs read five reassurances that everything is working fine from players who don't have to put up with this issue for every bug report, they're not going to act.
    I really wish all these posts from older players would stop already. They're all long time at 85, have been simming for months, and don't have a good idea what the new players are experiencing. I keep seeing some posts like "I went from 50 to 150 without losing" and can't help myself but call that a straight out lie. It's just not possible with the current matchmaking system for players under 85.

    And you've got no idea what older experienced players faced.

    Are you meeting maxxed out and unbeatable Revans the second he was in game? Didn't think so.

    That was our experience whenever meta defining toons like thrawn or CLS were introduced. If you didn't get them yourself at first pass there were virtually no GW wins for you for the next 3 to 6 months.

    GW is easier than it used to be. They did this change about a year ago. That is absolutely the reason older players don't greet these posts with the sympathy many seek.

    That doesn't mean it's easy, far from it, and that curve from about mid level 70's up is absolutely brutal. Some of us forget that and also forget that new additions like nightsisters and bastilla will present newer players with a much different challenge that you can't just throw a zeta on finn at and breeze through.

    But, by the same logic, you've got access to far more powerful at a low star/GP lineups than we ever did that can get the job done for you; nightsisters, bastilla jedi, resistance, first order all good examples.

    It is frustrating, because you probably have been doing ok but have now reached the tipping point, when you begin to hit unbeatable teams. every. single. GW.

    The goalposts no longer keep moving like they used to. Every team has a counter and by broadening your roster you will get over these hurdles. Eventually. Good luck.
  • It is frustrating, because you probably have been doing ok but have now reached the tipping point, when you begin to hit unbeatable teams. every. single. GW.

    The goalposts no longer keep moving like they used to. Every team has a counter and by broadening your roster you will get over these hurdles. Eventually. Good luck.


    Under normal circumstances this would be valid advice. And it still is to a certain extent. Only question is how do you explain to a new player (or player with an alt account) who just hit GW at level 40 with a top 5 in the 10-11K range having to face a team with 25K GP on battle 7??
  • Waqui wrote: »
    Complaints with no details and no documentation is just noise and won't be taken seriously by the devs. Complaints when there's not problem and everything is working as intended is just noise. Those types of complaints just water everything down, and may cover the complaints where the complainer may have a point.

    That's why I suggested in another thread to just post pics with data and the numbers that are available so it can be seen clearly. I'm getting just as frustrated with some of the complaints (though DeVito has been more helpful than others) that just muddy the waters. Don't need to talk about synergy opponents , as there has never been anything in the algorithm about that.

    And I guess my only real question is not how the matchmaking system works or what not. It is "Should this opponent be on this GW node for the player account in question?"

    Now, if it IS supposed to be a level 80 team with 75K GP going against that level 64 guy with 30K GP top 5, we can delve further into that.
  • Waqui
    3750 posts Member
    BucMan55 wrote: »
    Now, if it IS supposed to be a level 80 team with 75K GP going against that level 64 guy with 30K GP top 5, we can delve further into that.

    If those match—ups are intentional / as designed, then it's not a bug seeing them. You may want / request a redesign, but that's not the same thing as a bug fix. OP discusses a possible bug.

  • BucMan55 wrote: »
    It is frustrating, because you probably have been doing ok but have now reached the tipping point, when you begin to hit unbeatable teams. every. single. GW.

    The goalposts no longer keep moving like they used to. Every team has a counter and by broadening your roster you will get over these hurdles. Eventually. Good luck.


    Under normal circumstances this would be valid advice. And it still is to a certain extent. Only question is how do you explain to a new player (or player with an alt account) who just hit GW at level 40 with a top 5 in the 10-11K range having to face a team with 25K GP on battle 7??

    You have to start to rely on more than just one squad. No other way.

    There are also many tricks that can help you. You may, or may not know these. I don't mean to insult if you do, but these all help, so worth knowing.

    Preload best toons with TM in early phases and dont leave their specials on cooldown.

    Exit and restart if the battle doesnt unfold as needed (you can do this as many times as you like).

    Try different attack combos next time; the exact same events and turns always happen the same way from the AI unless you change your own choices. That sometimes means you'll end up beating a squad if you choose a less obvious move for yourself making the AI do something different like taunt unstead of attack.

    Try different slot positions. Have a toon that will counter attack but AI is targeting someone else first? Your mass assist caller always gets picked on and stunned out the blocks? Exit, switch the slot in the squad those toons are in. Use the exact same lineup. The AI usually ends up hitting the toon you might want it to now instead.

    Likewise, stick a dud in see where the AI hits, restart and move to the correct spot to soak up an early powerful enemy attack or special.

    If you can't defeat the whole enemy squad, what about the leader. They'll loose their lead ability when you come round for a 2nd pass.

    Having toons like wedge/biggs sitting on some TM can make them beat up a leader in a difficult squad opening a way for another squad to push through.

    Yes, your enemy is stronger. But you have more toons, infinite re-do's and the AI's choices are the same and can be manipulated.
  • Kyno
    17439 posts Moderator
    BucMan55 wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    Complaints with no details and no documentation is just noise and won't be taken seriously by the devs. Complaints when there's not problem and everything is working as intended is just noise. Those types of complaints just water everything down, and may cover the complaints where the complainer may have a point.

    That's why I suggested in another thread to just post pics with data and the numbers that are available so it can be seen clearly. I'm getting just as frustrated with some of the complaints (though DeVito has been more helpful than others) that just muddy the waters. Don't need to talk about synergy opponents , as there has never been anything in the algorithm about that.

    And I guess my only real question is not how the matchmaking system works or what not. It is "Should this opponent be on this GW node for the player account in question?"

    Now, if it IS supposed to be a level 80 team with 75K GP going against that level 64 guy with 30K GP top 5, we can delve further into that.

    one minor issue with your evidence is that the current GP is not relative to the matching. The matching is based on the old power system and the values are very different, and may be numerically closer than we are seeing today.

    I would have to look back, but there was a post a while back that the devs said was close to the actual system based all on analysis of the power of each team. The basis is that you have a rated power (either top 5 or arena team power, it's not clear since they are usually within the margin of error difference of each other), then nodes are based on % of this value. There are several nodes that are above 100%.

    GW is it's own mode and has it's own strategy, older players have faced a lot of challenges with this mode and should not be discounted. Many players dont utilize specific strategies that are designed to help you get through it and the rewards it offers are not enough for new players to develop specific to that game mode.

    I have run an alt account and went through GW, only hitting 85 about 2 months ago. It doesnt seem to have changed at all.

    Anyone thinking there is a bug, posting and collecting data here, is kind of pointless. This needs to be posted at Answers HQ and all that evidence needs to be there to get it the attention you think it deserves.
  • BucMan55
    169 posts Member
    edited November 26
    Kyno wrote: »

    one minor issue with your evidence is that the current GP is not relative to the matching. The matching is based on the old power system and the values are very different, and may be numerically closer than we are seeing today.

    I would have to look back, but there was a post a while back that the devs said was close to the actual system based all on analysis of the power of each team. The basis is that you have a rated power (either top 5 or arena team power, it's not clear since they are usually within the margin of error difference of each other), then nodes are based on % of this value. There are several nodes that are above 100%.

    GW is it's own mode and has it's own strategy, older players have faced a lot of challenges with this mode and should not be discounted. Many players dont utilize specific strategies that are designed to help you get through it and the rewards it offers are not enough for new players to develop specific to that game mode.

    I have run an alt account and went through GW, only hitting 85 about 2 months ago. It doesnt seem to have changed at all.

    Anyone thinking there is a bug, posting and collecting data here, is kind of pointless. This needs to be posted at Answers HQ and all that evidence needs to be there to get it the attention you think it deserves.

    Yes i am aware of that differences in what data the GW system uses vs what we are able to see. The stat power vs galactic power would in my opinion offer minor percentage in what we can expect to see per node based on the research and what we are actually seeing. When the research says battle 1 is supposed to be 60% of your GP(which is all they had to use to research it) and they got that number over the course of dozens of battle 1 examples, I would assume it is pretty close to accurate. When people are getting teams at battle 1 with 150% the GP of their top 5, I would think something is wrong.


    I got to level 85 well after your alt account did(early November) and had GW ready to sim when I got there. I got that many completions by doing exactly what you and others suggested earlier regarding strats and squad building. I never saw these supremely overpowered teams until early October.


    Unfortunately those starting their accounts since this issue started don't have that benefit. They are just hitting brick walls that no amount of squad diversity or focus or what not will solve. It is happening from fresh GW all the way thru to those at 85. I'm seeing it on my main account now but at least if it is insurmountable I have the luxury of hitting sim. My top 5 is 60K now and I am talking about teams 90K+. According to the research, I shouldn't be seeing any teams on any node more than 15% my top 5 power. (node 12 is highest at 15%) Which would max out at about 70K. I haven't seen them on node 1 yet but have on nodes 2 all the way thru 12.

    I have sent this to the Answers HQ.

  • Kyno
    17439 posts Moderator
    edited November 26
    BucMan55 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »

    one minor issue with your evidence is that the current GP is not relative to the matching. The matching is based on the old power system and the values are very different, and may be numerically closer than we are seeing today.

    I would have to look back, but there was a post a while back that the devs said was close to the actual system based all on analysis of the power of each team. The basis is that you have a rated power (either top 5 or arena team power, it's not clear since they are usually within the margin of error difference of each other), then nodes are based on % of this value. There are several nodes that are above 100%.

    GW is it's own mode and has it's own strategy, older players have faced a lot of challenges with this mode and should not be discounted. Many players dont utilize specific strategies that are designed to help you get through it and the rewards it offers are not enough for new players to develop specific to that game mode.

    I have run an alt account and went through GW, only hitting 85 about 2 months ago. It doesnt seem to have changed at all.

    Anyone thinking there is a bug, posting and collecting data here, is kind of pointless. This needs to be posted at Answers HQ and all that evidence needs to be there to get it the attention you think it deserves.

    Yes i am aware of that differences in what data the GW system uses vs what we are able to see. The stat power vs galactic power would in my opinion offer minor percentage in what we can expect to see per node based on the research and what we are actually seeing. When the research says battle 1 is supposed to be 60% of your GP(which is all they had to use to research it) and they got that number over the course of dozens of battle 1 examples, I would assume it is pretty close to accurate. When people are getting teams at battle 1 with 150% the GP of their top 5, I would think something is wrong.


    I got to level 85 well after your alt account did(early November) and had GW ready to sim when I got there. I got that many completions by doing exactly what you and others suggested earlier regarding strats and squad building. I never saw these supremely overpowered teams until early October.


    Unfortunately those starting their accounts since this issue started don't have that benefit. They are just hitting brick walls that no amount of squad diversity or focus or what not will solve. It is happening from fresh GW all the way thru to those at 85. I'm seeing it on my main account now but at least if it is insurmountable I have the luxury of hitting sim. My top 5 is 60K now and I am talking about teams 90K+. According to the research, I shouldn't be seeing any teams on any node more than 15% my top 5 power. (node 12 is highest at 15%) Which would max out at about 70K. I haven't seen them on node 1 yet but have on nodes 2 all the way thru 12.

    I have sent this to the Answers HQ.

    Basing things on assumptions is never a good idea. The power rating system changed drastically and includes factors that were not included before. They are not relative to each other in any way, and that is an issue when you assume they are.

    Also, please post the link to your Answers HQ post so others can add information there. It will be more effective.
  • From the anecdotes I have seen, something does seem out of whack to me ...

    or they intentionally changed the algorithm.
  • Waqui wrote: »
    Arena teams have nothing to do with GW matchmaking. Neither does GP. Matchmaking is still based on the old power rating called stat power of your 5 highest power toons — disregarding what your arena team is. One difference between GP and stat power is, that zetas don't influence stat power.

    I believe the first problem here is to understand how GW matchmaking is actually designed/implemented.

    If what you're saying is true (is there an official post where the Devs have explained this?) then your response is not really a defense of GW working correctly, but rather an identification of what is wrong. Regardless of what the methodology is that is being used, it is broken and needs to be fixed because it is producing match-ups that are completely insane and impossible. That is true whether they are using GP or stat power.
  • Huatimus wrote: »
    Until you can see Stat Power again, you can't definitively claim that there's a bug. I believe someone has already logged it at Answers HQ anyway.

    I disagree. Unless the Devs intention is to create impossible match-ups for people in GW, then the fact that impossible match-ups are taking place is evidence of a bug... at least in terms of game-play, if not in the actual product of the code as well.
Sign In or Register to comment.