Dynamic Adjustment
From the other thread before Kyno closed it:
CG_SBCrumb wrote: »
As we mentioned in the Q&A, we don't do any manual changing of odds in general. Additionally, we don't modify the drop rates of challenges from release to release.
Nice try - manual means the Devs intervene to change the odds. That's not what we are asking.
We are asking if an algorithm dynamically changes (no manual intervention, no dev changing values) adjusts any rates in this game.
Thanks
CG_SBCrumb wrote: »
As we mentioned in the Q&A, we don't do any manual changing of odds in general. Additionally, we don't modify the drop rates of challenges from release to release.
Nice try - manual means the Devs intervene to change the odds. That's not what we are asking.
We are asking if an algorithm dynamically changes (no manual intervention, no dev changing values) adjusts any rates in this game.
Thanks
0
This discussion has been closed.
- 60.9K General Discussion
- 9 Developer Q&A Archive
- 2.6K New Players
- 30.5K Arena and Character Strategy
- 4K Individual Events
- 4.6K Guild Events
- 4.6K PVP and Rivalry
- 50.1K Guild Recruitment
- 731 Art and Media
- 4.1K Off Topic
Howdy, Stranger!
Replies
It is either used or it is not used. My thoughts are that it is used. It's "industry standard". And "bosses are asking for it to be used" (to paraphrase).
If that's an issue to me then I wouldn't play.
If they were going to admit to using such a system, they would have by now. If you still believe they're using such a system, you're not going to believe they aren't no matter what they say.
Believe what you want to believe, personally i'd pick the option that enrages me the most so i can get more and more upset every time i get bad drops. Works like a charm, really enjoyable.
The semantics of their response said 'manual'. A dynamic algorithm is anything but manual, especially when it's based on machine learning.
A game that takes money from people should be transparent in how it does so. If an algorithm dynamically changes drop rates to induce you in to playing longer or spending money then it prays on gambling.
It's not about whether you agree or disagree with it - however it certainly puts the 'RNG' arguement to bed as that doesn't exist in a game that dynamically adapts to the situation based on trained data
Also, you do know this is a silly response? In lieu of dynamically changing drops or adjustments, Drop rates would be fixed.
Since they can just flat out lie without consequenses, i don't see why you want to argue sementics here. Transparancy on such a system would definately not benefit the game, or the players for that matter.
So what is it about? A hypothetical discussion about RNG not excisting under the assumption that they're using such a system? What purpose would that serve?
It's the same as the dealer being able to change his hand in blackjack to fit the situation.
Now the question is whether CG implemented it or not. I think it depends on how can they meet the monetary expectations (or even requirements) of EA. Usually I'm pessimistic about the intents of profit-driven companies, though I'm willing to give the benefit of doubt to CG. The fact is that we'll never know as it's obvious that they never ever admit it if they use that technology.
So these kinds of speculations and discussions make no sense and lead nowhere.
*Edit: I mean if that's their main and only goal, which is clearly shown by the iterations of basically the same games over and over (I'm looking at you Fifa and co.)
There's only one way in which you can be negatively affected by this and that's if you are easily frustrated and choose to spend to relive that frustration. If you just accept the fact that farming slows down at 99/100 and carry on doing your normal amount of sims per day then the inclusion of dynamic drop rates has exactly zero impact on you.
If you also come back to reality and accept the fact that with a flat drop rate you will very regularly be stuck at 99/100 getting a string of zeros, you'll realize that they don't need to implement drop rate manipulation to frustrate a great number of people that post on these forums
In the end we'll probably never know the truth, so just play the game and stop worrying about it.
Is making you waste more energy and even more crystals than you should as the umpteenth attempt to manipulate you into spending zero impact?
If you chose to accept lies and live a happy life with that just do as you like. They will never admit that they use it somewhere, of course not. But if they have such patents they will use them, especially when they have to pay money to get it in first place. The sheer existence is evidence enough, believe it or not.
- Grand Admiral Thrawn
point 1: The average is still 33%, if the expenditure of energy/crystals comes at the end or in the middle it's irrelevant unless you let it be.
point 2: If you accept a constant drop rate you already accept they are manipulating you to spend more. With at constant droprate the randomness means you will be stuck a 99/100 for long periods on a regular basis as well. If being stuck at 99/100 is manipulating you to spend then the game is manipulating you to spend whether it engineers this circumstance or it occurs through randomness.
It's a fremium mobile game, of course it's manipulating you to spend. Not only with random drops, but with time gated energy growth, other limited resource incomes and PvP competition based on regularly released power increments and PvE competition with regularly released difficulty levels. If you don't like being manipulated to spend you are playing the wrong game.
Yeah lets take the one example they have published/advertised constant drop rates for.
That's NOT what I said. What I said is that this is not zero impact, I'm not arguing the fact that they make the most numerous and pitiful attempts to force you to spend, that's quite clear even if you played the game for 2 days, a surface knowledge of EA is totally enough to know that. You said all of this has zero impact and that you can't be negatively affected by this and I politely disagree. That's all.
What's the alternative?
Don't accept their lies and stop playing because you believe that the existence of such a patent is evidence enough for you to know that they're using it?
What impact does it have if you don't spend?
A slightly lower average droprate isn't a big deal in the grand scheme of things, so i'd consider that zero impact.
It's not and it's not an anwser to the question.
If you look into Carrie’s comments on Reddit, she flat out says they do not do dynamic RNG in very clear words
Yes, she also said that she never saw that patent before but then she said she has a lot of bosses (she works for EA now, she's no more CG_Carrie) and that adding the algorythm contained in that patent is something they've been asked for regularly. So she basically said that she never heard about that patent but then she said they've been asked to use it for long time. Isn't this a little bit contradictory? Besides, they also have a patent for an algorythm that regulates matchmaking and matches f2ps with whales on purpose to manipulate f2ps into spending even more.
Fine, if we are quibbling about zero and non-zero but very close to zero then I concede the point. I mean clearly some number of people would spend more through frustration, but that's the entire philosophy of the games revenue source and there are much larger pressures to spending. One additional tiny pressure (the existence of which has been denied whether you believe it or not) will make, almost exactly zero difference to the way I personally play the game.
That's one way to deal with it, yes. Another one is to continue playing with that knowledge and keep it in mind for future if it comes to questions like 'To spend or not to spend'.
Even if they don't use it for this game they will use it somewhere and some people may chose to not spend money to a business that uses such bad tricks.
- Grand Admiral Thrawn
The conspiracy theorist can post baseless allegations backed up by scant or often non-existent evidence. And they refute any suggestion that they should have to provide it.
The devs have responded by categorically stating, on more than one occasion, that they do not alter the odds or drop rates. This is not and will not ever be enough for the conspiracy theorist.
And there's the rub. Some people on this forum will always believe that the odds are rigged, and no amount of actual data or evidence or testimony from the devs will change that.
> unironically thinking that EA devs (that are, in fact, EA) would admit they're rigging the drop rates as the umpteenth attempt to manipulate you into spending, especially after all the poopstorm they've endured in these years and they're still enduring.
So basically just keep playing like you were playing before you were aware that they owned such a patent. Maybe pretent to be outraged a bit here and there, blame EA for being greedy once again, referrence their horrible reputation a few times and most importantly; potentially stop spending like this is the last straw that broke the camel's back.
I'm sorry, it's just funny to me.
She already addressed this.