Erik's QoL Question: Guild Mentoring Ideas
August 6, 2019 9:16PM
edited August 2019
Erik: Unfortunately, we didn't have a chance to get to the QOL of life bucket of questions. One interesting thing I noticed reading through the full list of questions was the number of times elder players commented expressing concern about new players being left behind and unable to catch up. This is something that we that we're talking about quite a bit as a team, so I wanted to highlight this question and hear your feedback:
Any chance you could implement some type of feature that would encourage Guilds to accept/value newer players? The features you currently have in place encourage high-level players to leave mid-tier guilds for better ones. Could you introduce an incentive for Guilds to shepherd new players? Maybe even a Guild Event bonus?
The above question was posted by @CG_Erik in the Q&A discussion.
I wanted to bring up something commonly used in sports leagues, specifically the way the NHL or NFL handles issues where players aren't available to play in the games at the time of gameday. There is the PUP (Physically unable to perform), Injured Reserve, or practice squad. This has also been adapted into fantasy rosters, where if a players is designated as injured, they can be slotted into a roster in their reserve slots.
The issue is that we don't necessarily want an influx of players making secondary accounts of a low GP and being able to flood a guilds "PUP List" with those accounts. Therefore, the amount of slots available for this type of player needs to be very limited.
I would suggest adding a few spots to a guild where a player who is at least 50% or below the guild's average GP can be designated for the PUP list and allowed to join the guild and not count against the total QTY. This allows guilds to mentor players, allow them to grow, without the risk of the getting bored of the grind, quiting, and allow players who are new to be able to participate in raids, receive rewards, lowering the wall they are hitting, slightly, and drastically lowering the skill curve required for level 85 play.
For a 50 person guild, I would recommend at most 3 spots. 3 positions where players can join at drastically lower GP and allowed to participate, experience, and be a part of a high end guild. This alone would help with recruiting, skill creep, gear grinding, and so many other issues that players tend to run into when looking for a guild or trying to learn and develop their rosters and skill in the game.
Post edited by nabokovfan on
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Its never going to work so just dont even try.
The developers asked for ideas, concepts. Posting to not even bother is really not constructive.
If anyone has any other thoughts or concepts please post them, let's discuss this.
I know that any system implemented will be abused by some, even as far as creating their own ALT accounts; but under the TOS there aren't supposed to be any ALT accounts in this game.
Agreed, and it's going to be some guilds that really utilize that feature.
we sold them the concept of listen to our guidance and you'll do well, we actually did "interviews", with the idea of bringing in some very focus farmed young accounts, who we could train to be at the sharp end of arena and therefore quickly build the meta squads with easy access to Traya and Kenobi
one lasted a few days, the other fresh account lasted a couple of months and the 900k became a fully integrated member of the guild and quickly showed up some of the long term players with some decent scores.
The conclusion was, however, that it was a bit of a waste of time.. 33% success rate and these were people actively looking for a leg up, and whilst we had them were holding us back from max potential, even the guy we looked after for 2 months never made a dent in any raid/tw/tb.
Introducing extra slots is a good idea in principle, but what's the end game? once they hit a threshold do they have to be promoted/booted? what is my incentive as a guild leader to spend time training these guys for them to leave at the end or cause me a headache as I have to choose between a veteran and my apprentice? and finally, as has already been stated, this is probably going to be used for guild members alt accounts rather than it's intended purpose
Don't get me wrong I really like the idea, unfortunately practically it's very difficult to implement without it being abused
It's kind of interesting in how you implemented the concept. I would encourage this to be used without the "guidance" being that they should farm X squad. Obviously there are teams you should farm, but there's a bit more to it when you are coaching or mentoring someone. The best thing to do would be to explain the modes in the game, the teams that work, why they work. Handing someone a Skelturix video for your Heroic raid guild and telling them they need to farm JTR/NS to earn there spot is something that a ton of guilds do. I don't want to be in a guild that forces me to farm something. Of course I farm the important teams and I'll be the second in my guild to go for Wat Tambor shards. I think the approach could've been one of the reasons why you didn't have the best results in your efforts. It's really awesome to see that you tried it out and that your guild was open to the idea of inviting in lower tier members.
To answer your question, "what happens when...."
If you think about how long it takes for a player to make up that much progress, it should determine a certain timeline that can be expected when you sign them up for this slot. If you think it takes a year, or X months, for someone to hit 2 mil GP, then you have a good idea of how long they will be on standby. Once they hit the threshold, a guild leader would get a message stating that they either need to accept/reject this person as a full member of their guild. I would hope that in a years time, a few months, you have had enough time to evaluate their personality, what fits, what doesn't, and you would have a good idea in your actual members pool of someone that may be dropping their activity, or just isn't helping out the group as much as the new member might. Guilds typically are always full, but there is always a low man on the totem pole. It encourages those who are in the guild to perform as they need to be, and it reminds them that there is always going to be a next man up and the gap is always closing. I have always been one of the lower GP members, but I still do my part and I have a lot of stronger squads then some of the members that have double my GP. I would've definitely been a part of this for the guild I am in now, and I've brought in 3-5 more members that are very motivated and have really lean rosters. Either they prove themselves, or they don't.
I wanted to discuss this comment further. I didn't really understand what you meant by saying that you had people who were "looking for a leg up". You mentioned a specific roster/member who didn't make a dent in a raid. My second guild I joined was the first time we pushed in the HSTR. We tried for a few months to prepare for it and then finally hit the button. I didn't have JTR or Nightsisters and I still don't. I am slowly working on them, but definitely isn't a top priority for where I'm at. Phase 2 seemed to be the only chance I ever had at getting some damage, and that phase usually lasts about 5 minutes no matter what. I tried to get some damage in after nihilus down in p4, but it's just not that easy when you don't have the gear. Maybe it's because of my own struggles, but you should be able to see someone's roster and know exactly what they are farming, if they are gear limited in some squads, and a few characters they really should focus on to greatly improve their damage in a certain mode of the game. I think there's a lot that goes into working with someone and it takes a lot of patience. It takes a lot of time and energy, cheering them for their accomplishments when they do happen. I hope that you did learn something from the process, even if it didn't work out for you. I would hope that if something like this does happen in the game, that you and your guild are excited to give it another shot.
You're taking the game too seriously when you start conditioning noobs to play the way you like.
Yes. If taking in such newer players would hold special rewards for the guild such as gear, as well as maybe faster exp gain and select character shards for the noob?
The thing is that it would have to fulfill the three criteria of a: being worthwhile, b: not be disruptive to competitive play, and c: be hard to exploit. Easier said than done.
Maybe the quest system could be incorporated into this somehow? It wouldn't hurt with more quests at least they're fun. And even though there's no immediately obvious financial gain from them they do improve the quality of the game and keep us interested. Which is ultimately very valuable.
Honestly, being able to try someone out for an extended period, without the risk of their GP affecting events, it's reward enough. There shouldn't be gear or rewards attached to it. That would encourage people to use it just to waste new players time and get the rewards without mentoring them. They wouldn't be motivated to work with them and coach them the way they should.
It's interesting you mentioned a quest system. Maybe allow guild officers to set 1 challenge a week for them that offers the player X guild currency or coins for completing.