Can we fix the SLK vs 5s AI Targetting issue?

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Broxxor
595 posts Member
That , imo, CANNOT be what the devs intended when they originally made the AI programming (i.e. taking out 5s first in a GAS lead).

I'm all for legitimate counters to Kylo, but this one literally causes a loop that is designed for failure (i.e. 5s taunts, continually heals via Padme and characters only hammer him with basics). That, if applied to other things in the game, cannot be what the devs intended (it's literally an infinite loop that creates an auto win scenario).

Replies

  • Options
    Easy fix while CG is fixing issues with a sledgehammer:

    Give Kylo another +30 speed and 'Dark side allies cannot be damaged while they have advantage' in his leadership.
  • Deany123
    88 posts Member
    Options
    Broxxor wrote: »
    That , imo, CANNOT be what the devs intended when they originally made the AI programming (i.e. taking out 5s first in a GAS lead).

    I'm all for legitimate counters to Kylo, but this one literally causes a loop that is designed for failure (i.e. 5s taunts, continually heals via Padme and characters only hammer him with basics). That, if applied to other things in the game, cannot be what the devs intended (it's literally an infinite loop that creates an auto win scenario).

    Then swap out any characters that attack out of turn! Simples! Just as it was with the Gas+1...add in malak and the counter was dead. Seriously, people come out with counters or find ways to beat you so YOU in turn work out a way to stop that.
  • littleMAC77
    2397 posts Member
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    There is no infinite loop, just taking advantage of how the AI operates. Its no different that why GAS mirror matches are so easy to win (AI usually triggers sacrifice), and its not a counter that encourages less investmemt in characters like the GAS+1 that was just fixed.

    And besides, this strategy has always existed, and is not new.
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  • Mirkraag
    509 posts Member
    edited June 2020
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    yes and good luck making it happens with malak on your side. Fives gets destroyed. Use the good team, period.

    What a whinner. 1 small counter exist now for a specific Kylo team and the guy has to whine. You just need to learn how to play instead of just paying for an autowin button.
  • Options
    Your problem is you're using ST. Take him out and you win. Simple.
    I have a bad feeling about this.
  • Options
    I think everyone’s missing OP point. It’s not about buffing kylo, or having to take sith trooper out. It’s a serious flaw in the AI.
    Everyone seems to forget, that they changed it to suit Rey when people was using the fives cheese with wat.
    They just need to change the AI so kylo will aid to actually use his siphon. Nothing needs buffing or nerfing. Just fix the AI.
  • Options
    I think I'd personally prefer some playable content than CG spending time fiddling with AI programming in the literally tens of thousands of unit combination/permutations that exist, especially when your team comp can be easily adjusted to avoid this being an issue.
  • Ggdjqjchsabjdj
    780 posts Member
    edited June 2020
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    I think everyone’s missing OP point. It’s not about buffing kylo, or having to take sith trooper out. It’s a serious flaw in the AI.
    Everyone seems to forget, that they changed it to suit Rey when people was using the fives cheese with wat.
    They just need to change the AI so kylo will aid to actually use his siphon. Nothing needs buffing or nerfing. Just fix the AI.

    Or literally just stop using Sith Trooper.
    If you complain you might delay the RA another month. Stop!
    I have a bad feeling about this.
  • Options
    So make an entire character completely void in pvp because the AI is coded wrong? Yea great one @Ggdjqjchsabjdj
  • Options
    So make an entire character completely void in pvp because the AI is coded wrong? Yea great one @Ggdjqjchsabjdj

    Every single toon in this game for the most part is void because of the "AI" though of your really want to think about it.
  • littleMAC77
    2397 posts Member
    Options
    I think everyone’s missing OP point. It’s not about buffing kylo, or having to take sith trooper out. It’s a serious flaw in the AI.
    Everyone seems to forget, that they changed it to suit Rey when people was using the fives cheese with wat.
    They just need to change the AI so kylo will aid to actually use his siphon. Nothing needs buffing or nerfing. Just fix the AI.

    No, the fixed the AI so that GLs would not be dumb enough to trigger 5s sacrifice, and thus make it harder for GAS to counter them. So if you fix the AI, it will just open the door for the old dumb AI to be exploited
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  • Options
    This game is not a real time pvp or a MMO turn based game, this is SWGOH-VISA.
    Whale harder .
    But no really this is not a big deal , I spend more time theory crafting around the games AI than actually playing , if you want the AI to do the perfect move every turn then you need to wait for skynet or find a new game.
  • Legend91
    2441 posts Member
    Options
    That's what happens when you go the lazy way and program the AI "semi smart" and focus on specific chars without taking all possibilities into account. Traya vs JKR is another example where ppl were modding her extremely tanky with crit avoidance arrows etc. to tank the initial JKR onslaught by his mark.
    Legend#6873 | YouTube | swgoh.gg
  • Options
    So make an entire character completely void in pvp because the AI is coded wrong? Yea great one @Ggdjqjchsabjdj

    It is not coded wrong from what I’ve heard. This was meant to be this way.
    I have a bad feeling about this.
  • TVF
    36625 posts Member
    Options
    Legend91 wrote: »
    That's what happens when you go the lazy way and program the AI "semi smart" and focus on specific chars without taking all possibilities into account. Traya vs JKR is another example where ppl were modding her extremely tanky with crit avoidance arrows etc. to tank the initial JKR onslaught by his mark.

    So you want them to program it for every possible situation?

    Good luck with that. Any chance of getting new content this year is now gone.
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Options
    I agree with this. I’d rather it stays this way then get everything delayed. All I’m going to say is just put up with it for now, and maybe you’ll get heard in the future.
    I have a bad feeling about this.
  • Legend91
    2441 posts Member
    Options
    TVF wrote: »
    Legend91 wrote: »
    That's what happens when you go the lazy way and program the AI "semi smart" and focus on specific chars without taking all possibilities into account. Traya vs JKR is another example where ppl were modding her extremely tanky with crit avoidance arrows etc. to tank the initial JKR onslaught by his mark.

    So you want them to program it for every possible situation?

    Good luck with that. Any chance of getting new content this year is now gone.

    I would have never started with this hardcoded stuff and kept it random.
    Legend#6873 | YouTube | swgoh.gg
  • Daishi
    718 posts Member
    Options
    Broxxor wrote: »
    That , imo, CANNOT be what the devs intended when they originally made the AI programming (i.e. taking out 5s first in a GAS lead).

    I'm all for legitimate counters to Kylo, but this one literally causes a loop that is designed for failure (i.e. 5s taunts, continually heals via Padme and characters only hammer him with basics). That, if applied to other things in the game, cannot be what the devs intended (it's literally an infinite loop that creates an auto win scenario).

    So what would you consider a legitimate counter? Using GS+1 to stop his ultimate wasnt legit. Now using a team of very high end characters and 2 major metas together to beat him isnt legit. Please help me understand what a legitimate counter would be. You mean you want only rey (and only a 50% win rate) and other SLKR to beat him? Rey is EASILY countered with 80%+ win rate with DR and GBA. That's a much cheaper counter in terms of investment than needing padme and GS +clones.

    So if all the counters so far aren't "legitimate" counters, what would you suggest as a legitimate counter?
  • Options
    Daishi wrote: »
    So what would you consider a legitimate counter? Using GS+1 to stop his ultimate wasnt legit. Now using a team of very high end characters and 2 major metas together to beat him isnt legit. Please help me understand what a legitimate counter would be. You mean you want only rey (and only a 50% win rate) and other SLKR to beat him? Rey is EASILY countered with 80%+ win rate with DR and GBA. That's a much cheaper counter in terms of investment than needing padme and GS +clones.

    So if all the counters so far aren't "legitimate" counters, what would you suggest as a legitimate counter?

    Probably one that doesn't only work as a result of a piece of bad AI coding.
  • Broxxor
    595 posts Member
    Options
    Daishi wrote: »
    So what would you consider a legitimate counter? Using GS+1 to stop his ultimate wasnt legit. Now using a team of very high end characters and 2 major metas together to beat him isnt legit. Please help me understand what a legitimate counter would be. You mean you want only rey (and only a 50% win rate) and other SLKR to beat him? Rey is EASILY countered with 80%+ win rate with DR and GBA. That's a much cheaper counter in terms of investment than needing padme and GS +clones.

    So if all the counters so far aren't "legitimate" counters, what would you suggest as a legitimate counter?

    Probably one that doesn't only work as a result of a piece of bad AI coding.

    Bingo.

    You can counter him with equally modded dr, gba, thrawn. Im not opposed to that counter.

    Theres a jkr counter as well.

    And both GLs have 100% win rates assuming modding is equal vs each other. So thats 4 counters. Im perfectly fine with ftp having a counter, im just not fine with counters that exploit an obvious oversight in the ai coding.
  • Daishi
    718 posts Member
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    Lol, all I know is in my arena, I'd much rather climb against Rey, shes SSSOOOOOO much easier to counter in 5v5 using a non GL team. Kylos kit is so offense heavy, he AOEs and gets stronger while weakening the enemy, gives his tanks undispellable taunts at start of battle and gets 3 turns back to back with FOO and hux. Hes immune to taunt effects so you cant get around the tanks to target him, and can chain ultimate. That offense heavy kit makes him difficult to counter already and they made them all immune to crit. Without playing against the AI limitations, IDK how to even consider countering him. Even with my maxed ultimate GL Rey, I'm at best 50/50 against Kylo, meanwhile Kylo can auto my rey team.

    So change Reys kit to let her auto kylo on offense, make her team immune to critical while in ultimate form and make her damage immunity activate when a unit would have died. That would maybe balance them so they can both reliably beat each other on offense. Because right now, rey is hot garbage compared to Kylo in every measure except LSTB, and that's probably only because Kylo cant be used there, otherwise he'd probably outshine Rey there too.

    And anyone who wants to bring up meta report. Everyone claimed Rey was better so many people went for Rey first, or they had resistance closer due to using it for HSTR. Let's see the meta report in 6 months when everyone who got Rey is unlocking Kylo as well, and see what it looks like. Because right now I've got MAJOR buyers remorse about Rey, and using that padme team with rey to counter kylo on my arena climb is the only thing that is fighting off the desire to quit entirely due to my last 4 months of hard farming being totally inferior to the alternative.
  • littleMAC77
    2397 posts Member
    Options
    Daishi wrote: »
    So what would you consider a legitimate counter? Using GS+1 to stop his ultimate wasnt legit. Now using a team of very high end characters and 2 major metas together to beat him isnt legit. Please help me understand what a legitimate counter would be. You mean you want only rey (and only a 50% win rate) and other SLKR to beat him? Rey is EASILY countered with 80%+ win rate with DR and GBA. That's a much cheaper counter in terms of investment than needing padme and GS +clones.

    So if all the counters so far aren't "legitimate" counters, what would you suggest as a legitimate counter?

    Probably one that doesn't only work as a result of a piece of bad AI coding.

    why does everyone pretend like beating other teams hasn't historically relied upon dumb AI?
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  • prime311
    52 posts Member
    Options
    Slkr is far better than Rey in virtually every way and you still have people that got slkr whining. You people suck.
  • Options
    why does everyone pretend like beating other teams hasn't historically relied upon dumb AI?

    There's dumb AI, and then there's a hard coding where a character literally won't use half his kit.
  • littleMAC77
    2397 posts Member
    Options
    If they changed it, you could just employ a paper clone strategy and run GAS + 501st against him. His AOE would wipe a clone and trigger sacrifice, then the clones go crazy. Then you win due to dumb AI just like GAS mirrors.
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  • TVF
    36625 posts Member
    Options
    Lol at the "allow Rey to auto Kylo" comment above.
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Options
    Maybe I'm the only one that can't get the Padme lead with 5s counter to work, but to me at least this is nowhere near as straightforward as "plug in a couple of crappy 501st toons under Padme and press go". I've got 200k H+P on Fives and even against non-ultimate Kylo with Red SiT, I get wiped every time.
  • Mirkraag
    509 posts Member
    Options
    People that think Kylo and Rey are on the same level have to much sand in their eyes.

    Kylo outpass Rey by far far away. There is no more competition now.

    Rey out, Kylo for the win.

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