GAC matchmaking bad with new GL's? Update matchmaking please

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Akenno
522 posts Member
edited September 15
Hey guys,

I feel that the GAC matchmaking with ~80 top toons are not good enough once we get the new GL pairs.
Top 80 would be too low. Some people out there got more than 120 Chars at G13.

How can a match be fair once every 80 toons are maxed?

We'd need higher top chars, more divisions and maybe full GP matchmaking.

What do you think about it?

Replies

  • They should add 2 more Divisions. Change 4.5+ to 4.5-5.19 and add 5.2-5.99 and 6.00+.

    For the last two divisions u have to set 2 more teams in defense and 1 more ship.

    The matchmaking should be top 100 for this Divisions.
  • But then they'd have to give us better rewards
  • Anarkid wrote: »
    But then they'd have to give us better rewards

    And as well all know cg is stingy at best with "better rewards"
  • Kyno
    25044 posts Moderator
    Akenno wrote: »
    Hey guys,

    I feel that the GAC matchmaking with ~80 top toons are not good enough once we get the new GL pairs.
    Top 80 would be too low. Some people out there got more than 120 Chars at G13.

    How can a match be fair once every 80 toons are maxed?

    If you only set 40 and only need 40 to attack, then it is fair. that doesn't change if they are maxed out. matchmaking should only be based on what you "should need".
    Akenno wrote: »

    We'd need higher top chars, more divisions and maybe full GP matchmaking.

    What do you think about it?

    more divisions would be good, but no need to change matchmaking past 2x the number of placed toons.
  • Waqui
    7623 posts Member
    edited September 15
    Check GAC histories. In div. 1 and 2 round winners use just about 70 characters to win the round (with 7 defensive slots on 5v5). Some times more - sometimes less. On average only a couple more in the rounds I checked. Also, round winners use more or less the same teams/characters over and over again to win. They don't switch between a lot of different teams in different rounds (still 5v5). Matching by top-X GP is very close to matching by the GP of the toons, you actually use to win a round.
  • But yes, adding one more division at the top would be good. According to CG themselves, they plan on doing it at some point, but they haven't said anything specific about when.
  • Kyno
    25044 posts Moderator
    Waqui wrote: »
    But yes, adding one more division at the top would be good. According to CG themselves, they plan on doing it at some point, but they haven't said anything specific about when.

    I think it was Bulldog in another thread gave a breakdown of why it was more complicated than just adding to the top. basically with the current player load at the higher GP, they would actually need to re structure the whole bracket system. they would need to make a whole new set of ranges to balance out the numbers of players in each bracket.

    just an FYI, not saying its more difficult or anything, just that its not as simple as breaking up the top bracket into 2.
  • Well, they need to do something about the top Divisions. There are too many scrubs that get top 100 with junk rosters. The top division should be split in to no less than 3 divisions.
  • Kyno
    25044 posts Moderator
    Themy wrote: »
    Well, they need to do something about the top Divisions. There are too many scrubs that get top 100 with junk rosters. The top division should be split in to no less than 3 divisions.

    While i know what you mean, more divisions will not change this. the top winners will always be the ones with a more lean GAC designed roster, which generally speaking means they will be from the lower end of the division.
  • vincentlondon
    4250 posts Member
    edited September 15
    Does GAC matchmaking consider top-X ships GP also or only the top-X characters ?

    Also if GAC format changes, does the matchmaking calculation change too ? For example is the matchmaking calculated the same with a GAC 100% character or with a GAC with both fleet and character?
  • Does GAC matchmaking consider top-X ships GP also or only the top-X characters ?

    Also if GAC format changes, does the matchmaking calculation change too ? For example is the matchmaking calculated the same with a GAC 100% character or with a GAC with both fleet and character?

    Not that I am aware of.
  • We definitely need more divisions. Most of the game population is now in division 1, and that just doesn't make sense. That should also come with better rewards in the higher divisions, and more defenses.

    Though I think the MM is fine. If they add more divisions and defenses they would need to modify the top X for each division, but so far it seems to actually work pretty well.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Akenno wrote: »
    Hey guys,

    I feel that the GAC matchmaking with ~80 top toons are not good enough once we get the new GL pairs.
    Top 80 would be too low. Some people out there got more than 120 Chars at G13.

    How can a match be fair once every 80 toons are maxed?

    If you only set 40 and only need 40 to attack, then it is fair. that doesn't change if they are maxed out. matchmaking should only be based on what you "should need".
    Akenno wrote: »

    We'd need higher top chars, more divisions and maybe full GP matchmaking.

    What do you think about it?

    more divisions would be good, but no need to change matchmaking past 2x the number of placed toons.

    I'm not sure how you can say this with a straight face.....

    If someone has 120 g13 to 80. The person with 80 HAS to win in one shot or he's done (I know you don't have to clear to win but just as an example). The other person can wittle down let's say a kylo, use dr to get rid of the accompanying characters and use cls to finish off kylo whole the person who has 80 doesn't have this luxury and shows that those plus 40 g13 characters are an advantage and won't be included in match making.
    Now that aside.....with the new gls, people could have 3 or 4, 120 g13 and be matched with people who have 80 g13 and 1gl (this is possible with zetas, omegas, relicing to r7 etc). Now that's not a fair match, No matter how you want to spin it. In div 1 I think they should increase the 80 toons that is the base at the moment.
    Not that it's impossible to win since my last match was 88 g13 to 64, 6.6mil to 5.2mil (I know it doesn't matter but just shows depth beyond 80 characters, more mods etc), 2gls to 1 and I got over the line by going ultra defensive which meant I had to use toons outside my 80 and so did my opponents. With the new gls and increased relic'd characters the divide would be too big with the current mm if it stays at 80.
  • Saada wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Akenno wrote: »
    Hey guys,

    I feel that the GAC matchmaking with ~80 top toons are not good enough once we get the new GL pairs.
    Top 80 would be too low. Some people out there got more than 120 Chars at G13.

    How can a match be fair once every 80 toons are maxed?

    If you only set 40 and only need 40 to attack, then it is fair. that doesn't change if they are maxed out. matchmaking should only be based on what you "should need".
    Akenno wrote: »

    We'd need higher top chars, more divisions and maybe full GP matchmaking.

    What do you think about it?

    more divisions would be good, but no need to change matchmaking past 2x the number of placed toons.

    I'm not sure how you can say this with a straight face.....

    If someone has 120 g13 to 80. The person with 80 HAS to win in one shot or he's done (I know you don't have to clear to win but just as an example). The other person can wittle down let's say a kylo, use dr to get rid of the accompanying characters and use cls to finish off kylo whole the person who has 80 doesn't have this luxury and shows that those plus 40 g13 characters are an advantage and won't be included in match making.
    Now that aside.....with the new gls, people could have 3 or 4, 120 g13 and be matched with people who have 80 g13 and 1gl (this is possible with zetas, omegas, relicing to r7 etc). Now that's not a fair match, No matter how you want to spin it. In div 1 I think they should increase the 80 toons that is the base at the moment.
    Not that it's impossible to win since my last match was 88 g13 to 64, 6.6mil to 5.2mil (I know it doesn't matter but just shows depth beyond 80 characters, more mods etc), 2gls to 1 and I got over the line by going ultra defensive which meant I had to use toons outside my 80 and so did my opponents. With the new gls and increased relic'd characters the divide would be too big with the current mm if it stays at 80.

    I disagree with your premise and conclusion. 80 characters is appropriate as it stands now. If you don't want bad characters included in your MM, make better roster choices.

    Also, while it is likely the 120 g13 roster will beat the 80 g13 roster, this is not a guarantee, and is not necessarily a bad matchup. There is so much more to consider, but the top 80 is way better than whatever it was before. It is not perfect, but in my experience it does a pretty good job.
  • Saada
    433 posts Member
    edited September 15
    StarSon wrote: »
    Saada wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Akenno wrote: »
    Hey guys,

    I feel that the GAC matchmaking with ~80 top toons are not good enough once we get the new GL pairs.
    Top 80 would be too low. Some people out there got more than 120 Chars at G13.

    How can a match be fair once every 80 toons are maxed?

    If you only set 40 and only need 40 to attack, then it is fair. that doesn't change if they are maxed out. matchmaking should only be based on what you "should need".
    Akenno wrote: »

    We'd need higher top chars, more divisions and maybe full GP matchmaking.

    What do you think about it?

    more divisions would be good, but no need to change matchmaking past 2x the number of placed toons.

    I'm not sure how you can say this with a straight face.....

    If someone has 120 g13 to 80. The person with 80 HAS to win in one shot or he's done (I know you don't have to clear to win but just as an example). The other person can wittle down let's say a kylo, use dr to get rid of the accompanying characters and use cls to finish off kylo whole the person who has 80 doesn't have this luxury and shows that those plus 40 g13 characters are an advantage and won't be included in match making.
    Now that aside.....with the new gls, people could have 3 or 4, 120 g13 and be matched with people who have 80 g13 and 1gl (this is possible with zetas, omegas, relicing to r7 etc). Now that's not a fair match, No matter how you want to spin it. In div 1 I think they should increase the 80 toons that is the base at the moment.
    Not that it's impossible to win since my last match was 88 g13 to 64, 6.6mil to 5.2mil (I know it doesn't matter but just shows depth beyond 80 characters, more mods etc), 2gls to 1 and I got over the line by going ultra defensive which meant I had to use toons outside my 80 and so did my opponents. With the new gls and increased relic'd characters the divide would be too big with the current mm if it stays at 80.

    I disagree with your premise and conclusion. 80 characters is appropriate as it stands now. If you don't want bad characters included in your MM, make better roster choices.

    Also, while it is likely the 120 g13 roster will beat the 80 g13 roster, this is not a guarantee, and is not necessarily a bad matchup. There is so much more to consider, but the top 80 is way better than whatever it was before. It is not perfect, but in my experience it does a pretty good job.

    That's silly. If you have 80 relicd characters, it doesn't matter about your choices even if you've chosen all meta characters besides the upcoming gls. If your not a huge whale or kraken who go on to get the next two gls straight away, you could be matched 120 to 80 and 4 gl to 2. Now roster choices can't change that if that's what your roster is now.....

    Also now is ok even when it's 80 to 120 but with the new gls it's going to be near impossible. People always relate to the "new meta" everyone always complains about but with 4 characters susupposedly on the same footing creating 4 meta teams at once is going to be a joke if you are matched 4gls to 1 or 2. It's like before going against a guy who has gas when he first came out and you dont but this time he has 2 or 3 gas squads to your none and are expected to have a chance of winning.
  • They need to weigh individual characters far more than anything else. Two characters can provide the same amount of GP but are most definitely not the same value. Matchmaking sucks
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    But yes, adding one more division at the top would be good. According to CG themselves, they plan on doing it at some point, but they haven't said anything specific about when.

    I think it was Bulldog in another thread gave a breakdown of why it was more complicated than just adding to the top. basically with the current player load at the higher GP, they would actually need to re structure the whole bracket system. they would need to make a whole new set of ranges to balance out the numbers of players in each bracket.

    just an FYI, not saying its more difficult or anything, just that its not as simple as breaking up the top bracket into 2.

    I don't think balancing out populations is necessary as long as the top most new division doesn't have too few people. Current gp thresholds in division breakdown is working with a gp-step system, not a population system. Div 2-3 has 700 k thresholds, 4 600k, 5 500k, 6 400k and so on. Since the game has seen serious gp creep due to new mechanics going around new tiers can jump with say 1m and then 1.25m and so on.
  • Kyno
    25044 posts Moderator
    Saada wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    Saada wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Akenno wrote: »
    Hey guys,

    I feel that the GAC matchmaking with ~80 top toons are not good enough once we get the new GL pairs.
    Top 80 would be too low. Some people out there got more than 120 Chars at G13.

    How can a match be fair once every 80 toons are maxed?

    If you only set 40 and only need 40 to attack, then it is fair. that doesn't change if they are maxed out. matchmaking should only be based on what you "should need".
    Akenno wrote: »

    We'd need higher top chars, more divisions and maybe full GP matchmaking.

    What do you think about it?

    more divisions would be good, but no need to change matchmaking past 2x the number of placed toons.

    I'm not sure how you can say this with a straight face.....

    If someone has 120 g13 to 80. The person with 80 HAS to win in one shot or he's done (I know you don't have to clear to win but just as an example). The other person can wittle down let's say a kylo, use dr to get rid of the accompanying characters and use cls to finish off kylo whole the person who has 80 doesn't have this luxury and shows that those plus 40 g13 characters are an advantage and won't be included in match making.
    Now that aside.....with the new gls, people could have 3 or 4, 120 g13 and be matched with people who have 80 g13 and 1gl (this is possible with zetas, omegas, relicing to r7 etc). Now that's not a fair match, No matter how you want to spin it. In div 1 I think they should increase the 80 toons that is the base at the moment.
    Not that it's impossible to win since my last match was 88 g13 to 64, 6.6mil to 5.2mil (I know it doesn't matter but just shows depth beyond 80 characters, more mods etc), 2gls to 1 and I got over the line by going ultra defensive which meant I had to use toons outside my 80 and so did my opponents. With the new gls and increased relic'd characters the divide would be too big with the current mm if it stays at 80.

    I disagree with your premise and conclusion. 80 characters is appropriate as it stands now. If you don't want bad characters included in your MM, make better roster choices.

    Also, while it is likely the 120 g13 roster will beat the 80 g13 roster, this is not a guarantee, and is not necessarily a bad matchup. There is so much more to consider, but the top 80 is way better than whatever it was before. It is not perfect, but in my experience it does a pretty good job.

    That's silly. If you have 80 relicd characters, it doesn't matter about your choices even if you've chosen all meta characters besides the upcoming gls. If your not a huge whale or kraken who go on to get the next two gls straight away, you could be matched 120 to 80 and 4 gl to 2. Now roster choices can't change that if that's what your roster is now.....

    Also now is ok even when it's 80 to 120 but with the new gls it's going to be near impossible. People always relate to the "new meta" everyone always complains about but with 4 characters susupposedly on the same footing creating 4 meta teams at once is going to be a joke if you are matched 4gls to 1 or 2. It's like before going against a guy who has gas when he first came out and you dont but this time he has 2 or 3 gas squads to your none and are expected to have a chance of winning.

    I think you are working within a very selective situation, which is fine, but is not reality.

    you are talking about a scenario that could happen but would only have a very limited window of appearance and take a very particular set of players.

    yes if the 120 was able to get the 2 new GLs in a very short period of time and the 80 didn't do anything in that same period of time, then this situation starts to line up. but since there is a period of time that things take place in, it is unlikely that the 80 player would just be standing still while the 120 player built up 2 new teams with the new GLs.

    you also assume that there would be no counter teams, and that the 80 player wouldn't be able to build those counter teams from the 80 he already has. you also need to keep in mind that the 120 didn't get to place any more teams than he did previously, so he will be removing teams to replace them with new teams, which means counters are freed up. which is why basing this on the 2x number of placed toons is a good base theory for matchmaking numbers. expanding that out past that starts to hurt the 80 player as they could have mistakes or bad choices they have been working around to develop past and now they are counted against them.
  • Saada wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    Saada wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Akenno wrote: »
    Hey guys,

    I feel that the GAC matchmaking with ~80 top toons are not good enough once we get the new GL pairs.
    Top 80 would be too low. Some people out there got more than 120 Chars at G13.

    How can a match be fair once every 80 toons are maxed?

    If you only set 40 and only need 40 to attack, then it is fair. that doesn't change if they are maxed out. matchmaking should only be based on what you "should need".
    Akenno wrote: »

    We'd need higher top chars, more divisions and maybe full GP matchmaking.

    What do you think about it?

    more divisions would be good, but no need to change matchmaking past 2x the number of placed toons.

    I'm not sure how you can say this with a straight face.....

    If someone has 120 g13 to 80. The person with 80 HAS to win in one shot or he's done (I know you don't have to clear to win but just as an example). The other person can wittle down let's say a kylo, use dr to get rid of the accompanying characters and use cls to finish off kylo whole the person who has 80 doesn't have this luxury and shows that those plus 40 g13 characters are an advantage and won't be included in match making.
    Now that aside.....with the new gls, people could have 3 or 4, 120 g13 and be matched with people who have 80 g13 and 1gl (this is possible with zetas, omegas, relicing to r7 etc). Now that's not a fair match, No matter how you want to spin it. In div 1 I think they should increase the 80 toons that is the base at the moment.
    Not that it's impossible to win since my last match was 88 g13 to 64, 6.6mil to 5.2mil (I know it doesn't matter but just shows depth beyond 80 characters, more mods etc), 2gls to 1 and I got over the line by going ultra defensive which meant I had to use toons outside my 80 and so did my opponents. With the new gls and increased relic'd characters the divide would be too big with the current mm if it stays at 80.

    I disagree with your premise and conclusion. 80 characters is appropriate as it stands now. If you don't want bad characters included in your MM, make better roster choices.

    Also, while it is likely the 120 g13 roster will beat the 80 g13 roster, this is not a guarantee, and is not necessarily a bad matchup. There is so much more to consider, but the top 80 is way better than whatever it was before. It is not perfect, but in my experience it does a pretty good job.

    That's silly. If you have 80 relicd characters, it doesn't matter about your choices even if you've chosen all meta characters besides the upcoming gls. If your not a huge whale or kraken who go on to get the next two gls straight away, you could be matched 120 to 80 and 4 gl to 2. Now roster choices can't change that if that's what your roster is now.....

    Also now is ok even when it's 80 to 120 but with the new gls it's going to be near impossible. People always relate to the "new meta" everyone always complains about but with 4 characters susupposedly on the same footing creating 4 meta teams at once is going to be a joke if you are matched 4gls to 1 or 2. It's like before going against a guy who has gas when he first came out and you dont but this time he has 2 or 3 gas squads to your none and are expected to have a chance of winning.

    Why is 4 gl to 2 gl a problem? I guess you are in the camp of "I have no malak, I get matched with malak". No gl and 80+ relics isn't a thing, if there's such a player in abundance of resources, they should ask themselves why they have no gl. Also relics doesn't mean equal or similar gp either. Managing relic tiers goes a long way to get favorable matchups. GLs are gp monsters. I'm en route to pushing some of the relic 3s out of my top 80.

    This is not to say I don't think matchmaking can be improved. But it should never go in the way where meta toons are tried to be fit 1:1, all of these already add their gp which significantly effects matchmaking.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Saada wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    Saada wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Akenno wrote: »
    Hey guys,

    I feel that the GAC matchmaking with ~80 top toons are not good enough once we get the new GL pairs.
    Top 80 would be too low. Some people out there got more than 120 Chars at G13.

    How can a match be fair once every 80 toons are maxed?

    If you only set 40 and only need 40 to attack, then it is fair. that doesn't change if they are maxed out. matchmaking should only be based on what you "should need".
    Akenno wrote: »

    We'd need higher top chars, more divisions and maybe full GP matchmaking.

    What do you think about it?

    more divisions would be good, but no need to change matchmaking past 2x the number of placed toons.

    I'm not sure how you can say this with a straight face.....

    If someone has 120 g13 to 80. The person with 80 HAS to win in one shot or he's done (I know you don't have to clear to win but just as an example). The other person can wittle down let's say a kylo, use dr to get rid of the accompanying characters and use cls to finish off kylo whole the person who has 80 doesn't have this luxury and shows that those plus 40 g13 characters are an advantage and won't be included in match making.
    Now that aside.....with the new gls, people could have 3 or 4, 120 g13 and be matched with people who have 80 g13 and 1gl (this is possible with zetas, omegas, relicing to r7 etc). Now that's not a fair match, No matter how you want to spin it. In div 1 I think they should increase the 80 toons that is the base at the moment.
    Not that it's impossible to win since my last match was 88 g13 to 64, 6.6mil to 5.2mil (I know it doesn't matter but just shows depth beyond 80 characters, more mods etc), 2gls to 1 and I got over the line by going ultra defensive which meant I had to use toons outside my 80 and so did my opponents. With the new gls and increased relic'd characters the divide would be too big with the current mm if it stays at 80.

    I disagree with your premise and conclusion. 80 characters is appropriate as it stands now. If you don't want bad characters included in your MM, make better roster choices.

    Also, while it is likely the 120 g13 roster will beat the 80 g13 roster, this is not a guarantee, and is not necessarily a bad matchup. There is so much more to consider, but the top 80 is way better than whatever it was before. It is not perfect, but in my experience it does a pretty good job.

    That's silly. If you have 80 relicd characters, it doesn't matter about your choices even if you've chosen all meta characters besides the upcoming gls. If your not a huge whale or kraken who go on to get the next two gls straight away, you could be matched 120 to 80 and 4 gl to 2. Now roster choices can't change that if that's what your roster is now.....

    Also now is ok even when it's 80 to 120 but with the new gls it's going to be near impossible. People always relate to the "new meta" everyone always complains about but with 4 characters susupposedly on the same footing creating 4 meta teams at once is going to be a joke if you are matched 4gls to 1 or 2. It's like before going against a guy who has gas when he first came out and you dont but this time he has 2 or 3 gas squads to your none and are expected to have a chance of winning.

    I think you are working within a very selective situation, which is fine, but is not reality.

    you are talking about a scenario that could happen but would only have a very limited window of appearance and take a very particular set of players.

    yes if the 120 was able to get the 2 new GLs in a very short period of time and the 80 didn't do anything in that same period of time, then this situation starts to line up. but since there is a period of time that things take place in, it is unlikely that the 80 player would just be standing still while the 120 player built up 2 new teams with the new GLs.

    you also assume that there would be no counter teams, and that the 80 player wouldn't be able to build those counter teams from the 80 he already has. you also need to keep in mind that the 120 didn't get to place any more teams than he did previously, so he will be removing teams to replace them with new teams, which means counters are freed up. which is why basing this on the 2x number of placed toons is a good base theory for matchmaking numbers. expanding that out past that starts to hurt the 80 player as they could have mistakes or bad choices they have been working around to develop past and now they are counted against them.

    It's not that selective. I'm on 64 have kylo and no rey, chasing jkl then luke. I'll probably hit close 80 before I get luke which means I'll be in that selective group. I won't be standing still but working towards those gls means I'll slide into that situation without anything I can do about it.

    As for the not being able to set more teams is irrelevant. On the 70 we are using at the moment, He'll just set up 4 gls on defence plus droids, padme and bh. Keep strong offensive squads and counters for attack and be able to use his relicd depth to either clear me if I go defensive (where I'd probably not clear a sector with the new gls) or if I go offensive, I won't be able to mix and match squads for counters nor have enough depth on defence to win anyway.

    I am not saying increase for all divs. Even if it was just an increase for those over 6mil/div 1 only or forget about that and chuck in more divisions or maybe leagues.
    But I'll revisit this when the situation arrives
  • MaruMaru wrote: »
    Saada wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    Saada wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Akenno wrote: »
    Hey guys,

    I feel that the GAC matchmaking with ~80 top toons are not good enough once we get the new GL pairs.
    Top 80 would be too low. Some people out there got more than 120 Chars at G13.

    How can a match be fair once every 80 toons are maxed?

    If you only set 40 and only need 40 to attack, then it is fair. that doesn't change if they are maxed out. matchmaking should only be based on what you "should need".
    Akenno wrote: »

    We'd need higher top chars, more divisions and maybe full GP matchmaking.

    What do you think about it?

    more divisions would be good, but no need to change matchmaking past 2x the number of placed toons.

    I'm not sure how you can say this with a straight face.....

    If someone has 120 g13 to 80. The person with 80 HAS to win in one shot or he's done (I know you don't have to clear to win but just as an example). The other person can wittle down let's say a kylo, use dr to get rid of the accompanying characters and use cls to finish off kylo whole the person who has 80 doesn't have this luxury and shows that those plus 40 g13 characters are an advantage and won't be included in match making.
    Now that aside.....with the new gls, people could have 3 or 4, 120 g13 and be matched with people who have 80 g13 and 1gl (this is possible with zetas, omegas, relicing to r7 etc). Now that's not a fair match, No matter how you want to spin it. In div 1 I think they should increase the 80 toons that is the base at the moment.
    Not that it's impossible to win since my last match was 88 g13 to 64, 6.6mil to 5.2mil (I know it doesn't matter but just shows depth beyond 80 characters, more mods etc), 2gls to 1 and I got over the line by going ultra defensive which meant I had to use toons outside my 80 and so did my opponents. With the new gls and increased relic'd characters the divide would be too big with the current mm if it stays at 80.

    I disagree with your premise and conclusion. 80 characters is appropriate as it stands now. If you don't want bad characters included in your MM, make better roster choices.

    Also, while it is likely the 120 g13 roster will beat the 80 g13 roster, this is not a guarantee, and is not necessarily a bad matchup. There is so much more to consider, but the top 80 is way better than whatever it was before. It is not perfect, but in my experience it does a pretty good job.

    That's silly. If you have 80 relicd characters, it doesn't matter about your choices even if you've chosen all meta characters besides the upcoming gls. If your not a huge whale or kraken who go on to get the next two gls straight away, you could be matched 120 to 80 and 4 gl to 2. Now roster choices can't change that if that's what your roster is now.....

    Also now is ok even when it's 80 to 120 but with the new gls it's going to be near impossible. People always relate to the "new meta" everyone always complains about but with 4 characters susupposedly on the same footing creating 4 meta teams at once is going to be a joke if you are matched 4gls to 1 or 2. It's like before going against a guy who has gas when he first came out and you dont but this time he has 2 or 3 gas squads to your none and are expected to have a chance of winning.

    Why is 4 gl to 2 gl a problem? I guess you are in the camp of "I have no malak, I get matched with malak". No gl and 80+ relics isn't a thing, if there's such a player in abundance of resources, they should ask themselves why they have no gl. Also relics doesn't mean equal or similar gp either. Managing relic tiers goes a long way to get favorable matchups. GLs are gp monsters. I'm en route to pushing some of the relic 3s out of my top 80.

    This is not to say I don't think matchmaking can be improved. But it should never go in the way where meta toons are tried to be fit 1:1, all of these already add their gp which significantly effects matchmaking.

    Read what I said about people talking about just a "new meta" which is just what you did....
    I explained the difference since its not a you have malak and I have none situation with gls or is it you have 501st and I have none. It's more like you have 4 501st squads and I have one since there is going to be 4 meta squads bouncing around that will require breaking apart way to many squads to counter especially if you are down 80 g13 to 100+. If it comes out that a rebel squad can take down palp with thrawn then there is no issue but I don't think that's going to be the case...
  • What about this:

    First round randomly. From second round the groups are automatically compose by your GAC rank. So 1-8 in one group, 9-16 etc. Round three and four the same.
    This would be much more competitive and in the last round the best of each division would fight each other.

    I know that this would make it more difficult for players with lower GP in each division but more GP doesn't mean better roster and with the actual matchmaking it also happens that lower GP have to fight some overpowered opponent.
  • Hopefully new divisions will bring on new slots as it is for the current division structure and however it evolves, it will be different from the current one with 7-8 slots for incredibly high gps who can't even get to use numerous well built teams.
  • Kyno
    25044 posts Moderator
    Saada wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Saada wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    Saada wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Akenno wrote: »
    Hey guys,

    I feel that the GAC matchmaking with ~80 top toons are not good enough once we get the new GL pairs.
    Top 80 would be too low. Some people out there got more than 120 Chars at G13.

    How can a match be fair once every 80 toons are maxed?

    If you only set 40 and only need 40 to attack, then it is fair. that doesn't change if they are maxed out. matchmaking should only be based on what you "should need".
    Akenno wrote: »

    We'd need higher top chars, more divisions and maybe full GP matchmaking.

    What do you think about it?

    more divisions would be good, but no need to change matchmaking past 2x the number of placed toons.

    I'm not sure how you can say this with a straight face.....

    If someone has 120 g13 to 80. The person with 80 HAS to win in one shot or he's done (I know you don't have to clear to win but just as an example). The other person can wittle down let's say a kylo, use dr to get rid of the accompanying characters and use cls to finish off kylo whole the person who has 80 doesn't have this luxury and shows that those plus 40 g13 characters are an advantage and won't be included in match making.
    Now that aside.....with the new gls, people could have 3 or 4, 120 g13 and be matched with people who have 80 g13 and 1gl (this is possible with zetas, omegas, relicing to r7 etc). Now that's not a fair match, No matter how you want to spin it. In div 1 I think they should increase the 80 toons that is the base at the moment.
    Not that it's impossible to win since my last match was 88 g13 to 64, 6.6mil to 5.2mil (I know it doesn't matter but just shows depth beyond 80 characters, more mods etc), 2gls to 1 and I got over the line by going ultra defensive which meant I had to use toons outside my 80 and so did my opponents. With the new gls and increased relic'd characters the divide would be too big with the current mm if it stays at 80.

    I disagree with your premise and conclusion. 80 characters is appropriate as it stands now. If you don't want bad characters included in your MM, make better roster choices.

    Also, while it is likely the 120 g13 roster will beat the 80 g13 roster, this is not a guarantee, and is not necessarily a bad matchup. There is so much more to consider, but the top 80 is way better than whatever it was before. It is not perfect, but in my experience it does a pretty good job.

    That's silly. If you have 80 relicd characters, it doesn't matter about your choices even if you've chosen all meta characters besides the upcoming gls. If your not a huge whale or kraken who go on to get the next two gls straight away, you could be matched 120 to 80 and 4 gl to 2. Now roster choices can't change that if that's what your roster is now.....

    Also now is ok even when it's 80 to 120 but with the new gls it's going to be near impossible. People always relate to the "new meta" everyone always complains about but with 4 characters susupposedly on the same footing creating 4 meta teams at once is going to be a joke if you are matched 4gls to 1 or 2. It's like before going against a guy who has gas when he first came out and you dont but this time he has 2 or 3 gas squads to your none and are expected to have a chance of winning.

    I think you are working within a very selective situation, which is fine, but is not reality.

    you are talking about a scenario that could happen but would only have a very limited window of appearance and take a very particular set of players.

    yes if the 120 was able to get the 2 new GLs in a very short period of time and the 80 didn't do anything in that same period of time, then this situation starts to line up. but since there is a period of time that things take place in, it is unlikely that the 80 player would just be standing still while the 120 player built up 2 new teams with the new GLs.

    you also assume that there would be no counter teams, and that the 80 player wouldn't be able to build those counter teams from the 80 he already has. you also need to keep in mind that the 120 didn't get to place any more teams than he did previously, so he will be removing teams to replace them with new teams, which means counters are freed up. which is why basing this on the 2x number of placed toons is a good base theory for matchmaking numbers. expanding that out past that starts to hurt the 80 player as they could have mistakes or bad choices they have been working around to develop past and now they are counted against them.

    It's not that selective. I'm on 64 have kylo and no rey, chasing jkl then luke. I'll probably hit close 80 before I get luke which means I'll be in that selective group. I won't be standing still but working towards those gls means I'll slide into that situation without anything I can do about it.

    As for the not being able to set more teams is irrelevant. On the 70 we are using at the moment, He'll just set up 4 gls on defence plus droids, padme and bh. Keep strong offensive squads and counters for attack and be able to use his relicd depth to either clear me if I go defensive (where I'd probably not clear a sector with the new gls) or if I go offensive, I won't be able to mix and match squads for counters nor have enough depth on defence to win anyway.

    I am not saying increase for all divs. Even if it was just an increase for those over 6mil/div 1 only or forget about that and chuck in more divisions or maybe leagues.
    But I'll revisit this when the situation arrives

    you were saying 80 maxed toons, not 80 (various) relic toons. there is a difference. 80 relic toons still gives you rooms to move things around as you develop. 80 maxed toons r7 are topped out, that is the selective part that makes your scenario more rigid and less likely.
  • Saada
    433 posts Member
    edited September 15
    Kyno wrote: »
    Saada wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Saada wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    Saada wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Akenno wrote: »
    Hey guys,

    I feel that the GAC matchmaking with ~80 top toons are not good enough once we get the new GL pairs.
    Top 80 would be too low. Some people out there got more than 120 Chars at G13.

    How can a match be fair once every 80 toons are maxed?

    If you only set 40 and only need 40 to attack, then it is fair. that doesn't change if they are maxed out. matchmaking should only be based on what you "should need".
    Akenno wrote: »

    We'd need higher top chars, more divisions and maybe full GP matchmaking.

    What do you think about it?

    more divisions would be good, but no need to change matchmaking past 2x the number of placed toons.

    I'm not sure how you can say this with a straight face.....

    If someone has 120 g13 to 80. The person with 80 HAS to win in one shot or he's done (I know you don't have to clear to win but just as an example). The other person can wittle down let's say a kylo, use dr to get rid of the accompanying characters and use cls to finish off kylo whole the person who has 80 doesn't have this luxury and shows that those plus 40 g13 characters are an advantage and won't be included in match making.
    Now that aside.....with the new gls, people could have 3 or 4, 120 g13 and be matched with people who have 80 g13 and 1gl (this is possible with zetas, omegas, relicing to r7 etc). Now that's not a fair match, No matter how you want to spin it. In div 1 I think they should increase the 80 toons that is the base at the moment.
    Not that it's impossible to win since my last match was 88 g13 to 64, 6.6mil to 5.2mil (I know it doesn't matter but just shows depth beyond 80 characters, more mods etc), 2gls to 1 and I got over the line by going ultra defensive which meant I had to use toons outside my 80 and so did my opponents. With the new gls and increased relic'd characters the divide would be too big with the current mm if it stays at 80.

    I disagree with your premise and conclusion. 80 characters is appropriate as it stands now. If you don't want bad characters included in your MM, make better roster choices.

    Also, while it is likely the 120 g13 roster will beat the 80 g13 roster, this is not a guarantee, and is not necessarily a bad matchup. There is so much more to consider, but the top 80 is way better than whatever it was before. It is not perfect, but in my experience it does a pretty good job.

    That's silly. If you have 80 relicd characters, it doesn't matter about your choices even if you've chosen all meta characters besides the upcoming gls. If your not a huge whale or kraken who go on to get the next two gls straight away, you could be matched 120 to 80 and 4 gl to 2. Now roster choices can't change that if that's what your roster is now.....

    Also now is ok even when it's 80 to 120 but with the new gls it's going to be near impossible. People always relate to the "new meta" everyone always complains about but with 4 characters susupposedly on the same footing creating 4 meta teams at once is going to be a joke if you are matched 4gls to 1 or 2. It's like before going against a guy who has gas when he first came out and you dont but this time he has 2 or 3 gas squads to your none and are expected to have a chance of winning.

    I think you are working within a very selective situation, which is fine, but is not reality.

    you are talking about a scenario that could happen but would only have a very limited window of appearance and take a very particular set of players.

    yes if the 120 was able to get the 2 new GLs in a very short period of time and the 80 didn't do anything in that same period of time, then this situation starts to line up. but since there is a period of time that things take place in, it is unlikely that the 80 player would just be standing still while the 120 player built up 2 new teams with the new GLs.

    you also assume that there would be no counter teams, and that the 80 player wouldn't be able to build those counter teams from the 80 he already has. you also need to keep in mind that the 120 didn't get to place any more teams than he did previously, so he will be removing teams to replace them with new teams, which means counters are freed up. which is why basing this on the 2x number of placed toons is a good base theory for matchmaking numbers. expanding that out past that starts to hurt the 80 player as they could have mistakes or bad choices they have been working around to develop past and now they are counted against them.

    It's not that selective. I'm on 64 have kylo and no rey, chasing jkl then luke. I'll probably hit close 80 before I get luke which means I'll be in that selective group. I won't be standing still but working towards those gls means I'll slide into that situation without anything I can do about it.

    As for the not being able to set more teams is irrelevant. On the 70 we are using at the moment, He'll just set up 4 gls on defence plus droids, padme and bh. Keep strong offensive squads and counters for attack and be able to use his relicd depth to either clear me if I go defensive (where I'd probably not clear a sector with the new gls) or if I go offensive, I won't be able to mix and match squads for counters nor have enough depth on defence to win anyway.

    I am not saying increase for all divs. Even if it was just an increase for those over 6mil/div 1 only or forget about that and chuck in more divisions or maybe leagues.
    But I'll revisit this when the situation arrives

    you were saying 80 maxed toons, not 80 (various) relic toons. there is a difference. 80 relic toons still gives you rooms to move things around as you develop. 80 maxed toons r7 are topped out, that is the selective part that makes your scenario more rigid and less likely.

    Pretty sure I never said "maxed" so don't put words in my mouth. When creating my scenario a person does not need 80 r7 to be put into a situation that I've described.

    If a person has 60 r7 20 r5 and someone else has 40r7 and 80r3 they'll still have a chance on equaling their top 80 toons gp. As well as zetas that can balance out the difference.
  • Saada wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Saada wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    Saada wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Akenno wrote: »
    Hey guys,

    I feel that the GAC matchmaking with ~80 top toons are not good enough once we get the new GL pairs.
    Top 80 would be too low. Some people out there got more than 120 Chars at G13.

    How can a match be fair once every 80 toons are maxed?

    If you only set 40 and only need 40 to attack, then it is fair. that doesn't change if they are maxed out. matchmaking should only be based on what you "should need".
    Akenno wrote: »

    We'd need higher top chars, more divisions and maybe full GP matchmaking.

    What do you think about it?

    more divisions would be good, but no need to change matchmaking past 2x the number of placed toons.

    I'm not sure how you can say this with a straight face.....

    If someone has 120 g13 to 80. The person with 80 HAS to win in one shot or he's done (I know you don't have to clear to win but just as an example). The other person can wittle down let's say a kylo, use dr to get rid of the accompanying characters and use cls to finish off kylo whole the person who has 80 doesn't have this luxury and shows that those plus 40 g13 characters are an advantage and won't be included in match making.
    Now that aside.....with the new gls, people could have 3 or 4, 120 g13 and be matched with people who have 80 g13 and 1gl (this is possible with zetas, omegas, relicing to r7 etc). Now that's not a fair match, No matter how you want to spin it. In div 1 I think they should increase the 80 toons that is the base at the moment.
    Not that it's impossible to win since my last match was 88 g13 to 64, 6.6mil to 5.2mil (I know it doesn't matter but just shows depth beyond 80 characters, more mods etc), 2gls to 1 and I got over the line by going ultra defensive which meant I had to use toons outside my 80 and so did my opponents. With the new gls and increased relic'd characters the divide would be too big with the current mm if it stays at 80.

    I disagree with your premise and conclusion. 80 characters is appropriate as it stands now. If you don't want bad characters included in your MM, make better roster choices.

    Also, while it is likely the 120 g13 roster will beat the 80 g13 roster, this is not a guarantee, and is not necessarily a bad matchup. There is so much more to consider, but the top 80 is way better than whatever it was before. It is not perfect, but in my experience it does a pretty good job.

    That's silly. If you have 80 relicd characters, it doesn't matter about your choices even if you've chosen all meta characters besides the upcoming gls. If your not a huge whale or kraken who go on to get the next two gls straight away, you could be matched 120 to 80 and 4 gl to 2. Now roster choices can't change that if that's what your roster is now.....

    Also now is ok even when it's 80 to 120 but with the new gls it's going to be near impossible. People always relate to the "new meta" everyone always complains about but with 4 characters susupposedly on the same footing creating 4 meta teams at once is going to be a joke if you are matched 4gls to 1 or 2. It's like before going against a guy who has gas when he first came out and you dont but this time he has 2 or 3 gas squads to your none and are expected to have a chance of winning.

    Why is 4 gl to 2 gl a problem? I guess you are in the camp of "I have no malak, I get matched with malak". No gl and 80+ relics isn't a thing, if there's such a player in abundance of resources, they should ask themselves why they have no gl. Also relics doesn't mean equal or similar gp either. Managing relic tiers goes a long way to get favorable matchups. GLs are gp monsters. I'm en route to pushing some of the relic 3s out of my top 80.

    This is not to say I don't think matchmaking can be improved. But it should never go in the way where meta toons are tried to be fit 1:1, all of these already add their gp which significantly effects matchmaking.

    Read what I said about people talking about just a "new meta" which is just what you did....
    I explained the difference since its not a you have malak and I have none situation with gls or is it you have 501st and I have none. It's more like you have 4 501st squads and I have one since there is going to be 4 meta squads bouncing around that will require breaking apart way to many squads to counter especially if you are down 80 g13 to 100+. If it comes out that a rebel squad can take down palp with thrawn then there is no issue but I don't think that's going to be the case...

    I think I already answered that on principle. How are you getting matched with a 4 gl player with your 1 gl while their top most part of the roster drives their top 80 gp like crazy? The gp difference will be significant unless you are r6-7ing unnecessary portions of your top 80.

    We can go off of current cases, I sometimes get matched with 2gls to my 1 (and won against one such player last round). Since I curate my top 80 this is not the norm. Everything in my top 80 is g12+ being a veteran and all. On all the 3 cases this happened to me I found out their top 80s drop to g11s at the bottom of the 80. They are probably much newer players who never drove their g12 count up and immediately went for the cream of the crop meta teams of last 2 years.

    This give and take equilibrium makes sense to me. I don't see the 4:1 hypothetical case happening unless the 1gl player is sabotaging themselves even though they know how current mm works and bloat their top 80 with relic extremities.

    New divs+new slots should completely change this equation hopefully and you'll even be in an advantegous spot with slimmer top X bottom.
  • MaruMaru wrote: »
    Saada wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Saada wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    Saada wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Akenno wrote: »
    Hey guys,

    I feel that the GAC matchmaking with ~80 top toons are not good enough once we get the new GL pairs.
    Top 80 would be too low. Some people out there got more than 120 Chars at G13.

    How can a match be fair once every 80 toons are maxed?

    If you only set 40 and only need 40 to attack, then it is fair. that doesn't change if they are maxed out. matchmaking should only be based on what you "should need".
    Akenno wrote: »

    We'd need higher top chars, more divisions and maybe full GP matchmaking.

    What do you think about it?

    more divisions would be good, but no need to change matchmaking past 2x the number of placed toons.

    I'm not sure how you can say this with a straight face.....

    If someone has 120 g13 to 80. The person with 80 HAS to win in one shot or he's done (I know you don't have to clear to win but just as an example). The other person can wittle down let's say a kylo, use dr to get rid of the accompanying characters and use cls to finish off kylo whole the person who has 80 doesn't have this luxury and shows that those plus 40 g13 characters are an advantage and won't be included in match making.
    Now that aside.....with the new gls, people could have 3 or 4, 120 g13 and be matched with people who have 80 g13 and 1gl (this is possible with zetas, omegas, relicing to r7 etc). Now that's not a fair match, No matter how you want to spin it. In div 1 I think they should increase the 80 toons that is the base at the moment.
    Not that it's impossible to win since my last match was 88 g13 to 64, 6.6mil to 5.2mil (I know it doesn't matter but just shows depth beyond 80 characters, more mods etc), 2gls to 1 and I got over the line by going ultra defensive which meant I had to use toons outside my 80 and so did my opponents. With the new gls and increased relic'd characters the divide would be too big with the current mm if it stays at 80.

    I disagree with your premise and conclusion. 80 characters is appropriate as it stands now. If you don't want bad characters included in your MM, make better roster choices.

    Also, while it is likely the 120 g13 roster will beat the 80 g13 roster, this is not a guarantee, and is not necessarily a bad matchup. There is so much more to consider, but the top 80 is way better than whatever it was before. It is not perfect, but in my experience it does a pretty good job.

    That's silly. If you have 80 relicd characters, it doesn't matter about your choices even if you've chosen all meta characters besides the upcoming gls. If your not a huge whale or kraken who go on to get the next two gls straight away, you could be matched 120 to 80 and 4 gl to 2. Now roster choices can't change that if that's what your roster is now.....

    Also now is ok even when it's 80 to 120 but with the new gls it's going to be near impossible. People always relate to the "new meta" everyone always complains about but with 4 characters susupposedly on the same footing creating 4 meta teams at once is going to be a joke if you are matched 4gls to 1 or 2. It's like before going against a guy who has gas when he first came out and you dont but this time he has 2 or 3 gas squads to your none and are expected to have a chance of winning.

    Why is 4 gl to 2 gl a problem? I guess you are in the camp of "I have no malak, I get matched with malak". No gl and 80+ relics isn't a thing, if there's such a player in abundance of resources, they should ask themselves why they have no gl. Also relics doesn't mean equal or similar gp either. Managing relic tiers goes a long way to get favorable matchups. GLs are gp monsters. I'm en route to pushing some of the relic 3s out of my top 80.

    This is not to say I don't think matchmaking can be improved. But it should never go in the way where meta toons are tried to be fit 1:1, all of these already add their gp which significantly effects matchmaking.

    Read what I said about people talking about just a "new meta" which is just what you did....
    I explained the difference since its not a you have malak and I have none situation with gls or is it you have 501st and I have none. It's more like you have 4 501st squads and I have one since there is going to be 4 meta squads bouncing around that will require breaking apart way to many squads to counter especially if you are down 80 g13 to 100+. If it comes out that a rebel squad can take down palp with thrawn then there is no issue but I don't think that's going to be the case...

    I think I already answered that on principle. How are you getting matched with a 4 gl player with your 1 gl while their top most part of the roster drives their top 80 gp like crazy? The gp difference will be significant unless you are r6-7ing unnecessary portions of your top 80.

    We can go off of current cases, I sometimes get matched with 2gls to my 1 (and won against one such player last round). Since I curate my top 80 this is not the norm. Everything in my top 80 is g12+ being a veteran and all. On all the 3 cases this happened to me I found out their top 80s drop to g11s at the bottom of the 80. They are probably much newer players who never drove their g12 count up and immediately went for the cream of the crop meta teams of last 2 years.

    This give and take equilibrium makes sense to me. I don't see the 4:1 hypothetical case happening unless the 1gl player is sabotaging themselves even though they know how current mm works and bloat their top 80 with relic extremities.

    New divs+new slots should completely change this equation hopefully and you'll even be in an advantegous spot with slimmer top X bottom.

    Read what I said about my "64 relic characters chasing jkl then luke" to kyno cause I can't be bothered writing it all again.
    I could definitely be matched 4 to 1 without "sabotaging" myself (again explained in that post. Zetas and going to r7 can make up the difference of someone who has 4 gl to 1. There was no way of knowing who the next batch of gls were going to be. I have my bh well prepared and if now they decided to drop a bh gl then they're not a waste but they instead drop palp for example that needs lots of empire toons that I don't have relicd or geared. Would I love to switch my bh for those characters for palp... Yep. But I'm stuck with them cause I had no idea what they were going to release.
  • Kyno
    25044 posts Moderator
    Saada wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Saada wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Saada wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    Saada wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Akenno wrote: »
    Hey guys,

    I feel that the GAC matchmaking with ~80 top toons are not good enough once we get the new GL pairs.
    Top 80 would be too low. Some people out there got more than 120 Chars at G13.

    How can a match be fair once every 80 toons are maxed?

    If you only set 40 and only need 40 to attack, then it is fair. that doesn't change if they are maxed out. matchmaking should only be based on what you "should need".
    Akenno wrote: »

    We'd need higher top chars, more divisions and maybe full GP matchmaking.

    What do you think about it?

    more divisions would be good, but no need to change matchmaking past 2x the number of placed toons.

    I'm not sure how you can say this with a straight face.....

    If someone has 120 g13 to 80. The person with 80 HAS to win in one shot or he's done (I know you don't have to clear to win but just as an example). The other person can wittle down let's say a kylo, use dr to get rid of the accompanying characters and use cls to finish off kylo whole the person who has 80 doesn't have this luxury and shows that those plus 40 g13 characters are an advantage and won't be included in match making.
    Now that aside.....with the new gls, people could have 3 or 4, 120 g13 and be matched with people who have 80 g13 and 1gl (this is possible with zetas, omegas, relicing to r7 etc). Now that's not a fair match, No matter how you want to spin it. In div 1 I think they should increase the 80 toons that is the base at the moment.
    Not that it's impossible to win since my last match was 88 g13 to 64, 6.6mil to 5.2mil (I know it doesn't matter but just shows depth beyond 80 characters, more mods etc), 2gls to 1 and I got over the line by going ultra defensive which meant I had to use toons outside my 80 and so did my opponents. With the new gls and increased relic'd characters the divide would be too big with the current mm if it stays at 80.

    I disagree with your premise and conclusion. 80 characters is appropriate as it stands now. If you don't want bad characters included in your MM, make better roster choices.

    Also, while it is likely the 120 g13 roster will beat the 80 g13 roster, this is not a guarantee, and is not necessarily a bad matchup. There is so much more to consider, but the top 80 is way better than whatever it was before. It is not perfect, but in my experience it does a pretty good job.

    That's silly. If you have 80 relicd characters, it doesn't matter about your choices even if you've chosen all meta characters besides the upcoming gls. If your not a huge whale or kraken who go on to get the next two gls straight away, you could be matched 120 to 80 and 4 gl to 2. Now roster choices can't change that if that's what your roster is now.....

    Also now is ok even when it's 80 to 120 but with the new gls it's going to be near impossible. People always relate to the "new meta" everyone always complains about but with 4 characters susupposedly on the same footing creating 4 meta teams at once is going to be a joke if you are matched 4gls to 1 or 2. It's like before going against a guy who has gas when he first came out and you dont but this time he has 2 or 3 gas squads to your none and are expected to have a chance of winning.

    I think you are working within a very selective situation, which is fine, but is not reality.

    you are talking about a scenario that could happen but would only have a very limited window of appearance and take a very particular set of players.

    yes if the 120 was able to get the 2 new GLs in a very short period of time and the 80 didn't do anything in that same period of time, then this situation starts to line up. but since there is a period of time that things take place in, it is unlikely that the 80 player would just be standing still while the 120 player built up 2 new teams with the new GLs.

    you also assume that there would be no counter teams, and that the 80 player wouldn't be able to build those counter teams from the 80 he already has. you also need to keep in mind that the 120 didn't get to place any more teams than he did previously, so he will be removing teams to replace them with new teams, which means counters are freed up. which is why basing this on the 2x number of placed toons is a good base theory for matchmaking numbers. expanding that out past that starts to hurt the 80 player as they could have mistakes or bad choices they have been working around to develop past and now they are counted against them.

    It's not that selective. I'm on 64 have kylo and no rey, chasing jkl then luke. I'll probably hit close 80 before I get luke which means I'll be in that selective group. I won't be standing still but working towards those gls means I'll slide into that situation without anything I can do about it.

    As for the not being able to set more teams is irrelevant. On the 70 we are using at the moment, He'll just set up 4 gls on defence plus droids, padme and bh. Keep strong offensive squads and counters for attack and be able to use his relicd depth to either clear me if I go defensive (where I'd probably not clear a sector with the new gls) or if I go offensive, I won't be able to mix and match squads for counters nor have enough depth on defence to win anyway.

    I am not saying increase for all divs. Even if it was just an increase for those over 6mil/div 1 only or forget about that and chuck in more divisions or maybe leagues.
    But I'll revisit this when the situation arrives

    you were saying 80 maxed toons, not 80 (various) relic toons. there is a difference. 80 relic toons still gives you rooms to move things around as you develop. 80 maxed toons r7 are topped out, that is the selective part that makes your scenario more rigid and less likely.

    Pretty sure I never said "maxed" so don't put words in my mouth. When creating my scenario a person does not need 80 r7 to be put into a situation that I've described.

    If a person has 60 r7 20 r5 and someone else has 40r7 and 80r3 they'll still have a chance on equaling their top 80 toons gp. As well as zetas that can balance out the difference.

    you are correct, sorry i misinterpreted what you were saying.

    in any case there is nothing wrong with having a player 80 vs 120 g13. yes i can say that with a straight face. The 2x placement "rule" is a solid thing for matchmaking and allowing players to play smart and show off skill.

    the whole premise behind the matchmaking is that players can develop their rosters into this situation and work from there. expanding that to toons beyond what would be used on a clean run, only hurts players that are not at the higher end, as i said the player at 80 is more likely to have "missteps and bad choices" including those is not helpful.

    but i think we are all in agreement that they need more divisions.
  • Kyno
    25044 posts Moderator
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    But yes, adding one more division at the top would be good. According to CG themselves, they plan on doing it at some point, but they haven't said anything specific about when.

    I think it was Bulldog in another thread gave a breakdown of why it was more complicated than just adding to the top. basically with the current player load at the higher GP, they would actually need to re structure the whole bracket system. they would need to make a whole new set of ranges to balance out the numbers of players in each bracket.

    just an FYI, not saying its more difficult or anything, just that its not as simple as breaking up the top bracket into 2.

    I don't think balancing out populations is necessary as long as the top most new division doesn't have too few people. Current gp thresholds in division breakdown is working with a gp-step system, not a population system. Div 2-3 has 700 k thresholds, 4 600k, 5 500k, 6 400k and so on. Since the game has seen serious gp creep due to new mechanics going around new tiers can jump with say 1m and then 1.25m and so on.

    i agree, I think this was brought up in the post showing the very top heavy distribution of the current setup.
  • MaruMaru wrote: »
    Saada wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Saada wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    Saada wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Akenno wrote: »
    Hey guys,

    I feel that the GAC matchmaking with ~80 top toons are not good enough once we get the new GL pairs.
    Top 80 would be too low. Some people out there got more than 120 Chars at G13.

    How can a match be fair once every 80 toons are maxed?

    If you only set 40 and only need 40 to attack, then it is fair. that doesn't change if they are maxed out. matchmaking should only be based on what you "should need".
    Akenno wrote: »

    We'd need higher top chars, more divisions and maybe full GP matchmaking.

    What do you think about it?

    more divisions would be good, but no need to change matchmaking past 2x the number of placed toons.

    I'm not sure how you can say this with a straight face.....

    If someone has 120 g13 to 80. The person with 80 HAS to win in one shot or he's done (I know you don't have to clear to win but just as an example). The other person can wittle down let's say a kylo, use dr to get rid of the accompanying characters and use cls to finish off kylo whole the person who has 80 doesn't have this luxury and shows that those plus 40 g13 characters are an advantage and won't be included in match making.
    Now that aside.....with the new gls, people could have 3 or 4, 120 g13 and be matched with people who have 80 g13 and 1gl (this is possible with zetas, omegas, relicing to r7 etc). Now that's not a fair match, No matter how you want to spin it. In div 1 I think they should increase the 80 toons that is the base at the moment.
    Not that it's impossible to win since my last match was 88 g13 to 64, 6.6mil to 5.2mil (I know it doesn't matter but just shows depth beyond 80 characters, more mods etc), 2gls to 1 and I got over the line by going ultra defensive which meant I had to use toons outside my 80 and so did my opponents. With the new gls and increased relic'd characters the divide would be too big with the current mm if it stays at 80.

    I disagree with your premise and conclusion. 80 characters is appropriate as it stands now. If you don't want bad characters included in your MM, make better roster choices.

    Also, while it is likely the 120 g13 roster will beat the 80 g13 roster, this is not a guarantee, and is not necessarily a bad matchup. There is so much more to consider, but the top 80 is way better than whatever it was before. It is not perfect, but in my experience it does a pretty good job.

    That's silly. If you have 80 relicd characters, it doesn't matter about your choices even if you've chosen all meta characters besides the upcoming gls. If your not a huge whale or kraken who go on to get the next two gls straight away, you could be matched 120 to 80 and 4 gl to 2. Now roster choices can't change that if that's what your roster is now.....

    Also now is ok even when it's 80 to 120 but with the new gls it's going to be near impossible. People always relate to the "new meta" everyone always complains about but with 4 characters susupposedly on the same footing creating 4 meta teams at once is going to be a joke if you are matched 4gls to 1 or 2. It's like before going against a guy who has gas when he first came out and you dont but this time he has 2 or 3 gas squads to your none and are expected to have a chance of winning.

    Why is 4 gl to 2 gl a problem? I guess you are in the camp of "I have no malak, I get matched with malak". No gl and 80+ relics isn't a thing, if there's such a player in abundance of resources, they should ask themselves why they have no gl. Also relics doesn't mean equal or similar gp either. Managing relic tiers goes a long way to get favorable matchups. GLs are gp monsters. I'm en route to pushing some of the relic 3s out of my top 80.

    This is not to say I don't think matchmaking can be improved. But it should never go in the way where meta toons are tried to be fit 1:1, all of these already add their gp which significantly effects matchmaking.

    Read what I said about people talking about just a "new meta" which is just what you did....
    I explained the difference since its not a you have malak and I have none situation with gls or is it you have 501st and I have none. It's more like you have 4 501st squads and I have one since there is going to be 4 meta squads bouncing around that will require breaking apart way to many squads to counter especially if you are down 80 g13 to 100+. If it comes out that a rebel squad can take down palp with thrawn then there is no issue but I don't think that's going to be the case...

    I think I already answered that on principle. How are you getting matched with a 4 gl player with your 1 gl while their top most part of the roster drives their top 80 gp like crazy? The gp difference will be significant unless you are r6-7ing unnecessary portions of your top 80.

    We can go off of current cases, I sometimes get matched with 2gls to my 1 (and won against one such player last round). Since I curate my top 80 this is not the norm. Everything in my top 80 is g12+ being a veteran and all. On all the 3 cases this happened to me I found out their top 80s drop to g11s at the bottom of the 80. They are probably much newer players who never drove their g12 count up and immediately went for the cream of the crop meta teams of last 2 years.

    This give and take equilibrium makes sense to me. I don't see the 4:1 hypothetical case happening unless the 1gl player is sabotaging themselves even though they know how current mm works and bloat their top 80 with relic extremities.

    New divs+new slots should completely change this equation hopefully and you'll even be in an advantegous spot with slimmer top X bottom.

    Also just cause you noticed there drop off on the bottom end if their top 80 doesn't make it true for all cases. I have fought 0 GL to 2 and have been against 2-1 for ever it seems and these guys don't have any drop off. Last match was 88 g13 to 64, 2gl to 1, 6.6mil to 5.2mil, 30g12 to 21. And ii did have more r7, it was 28 my way to 24 but they had 4 r6 to my 1,. With those numbers you would have thought I had 40r7 to 20 or something but it isn't always as simple as "you r7nd too many"
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