Han shoots first bug

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Replies

  • Kyno
    25686 posts Moderator
    Mirkraag wrote: »
    So if it is not a bug, it is a nerf. Han doesnt shoot first anymore

    incorrect. it is only unique edge cases where this will happen.
  • Kyno
    25686 posts Moderator
    Ltswb1 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ltswb1 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ltswb1 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    yankeeh8er wrote: »
    Yeah it is beyond stupid. Every time krennic goes first it drives me insane. They need to change the wording of Han's ability to be: "Han sometimes goes first".

    ability titles have nothing to do with the description. which is still accurate.

    Except that they specifically mentioned this situation in the post releasing the new TM system, and said that Han should always go first. This is a bug, pure and simple. Sure it’s not a huge one in the grand scheme of things, but it is a bug. Otherwise, in the old system, it would have been a 50/50 coin flip and Krennik still would have gone sometimes. But he never did.

    If you feel this is a bug than you should be reporting it as such on <<Answers HQ>>.


    If you are referring to the line below, then you should realize that this is in specific reference to Han and Wat.
    ac6x70z2ueub.png

    I agree that he should shoot first, according to the mechanics listed, but I also recognize that issues of this nature should be treated as a low priority, as they have a very minor effect across the board.

    I believe it’s been posted as a bug already. I will look and see. You are ignoring the last part of my statement. Which I’ve seen you do several times from other posters.

    If it’s not a bug, then how come Krennik never went first in the old system? If they both got bonus turns, and there was no mechanic saying that Han should ALWAYS go first, then Krennik would have won 50/50 coin flips at least half the time. He NEVER did before. Which means there WAS a mechanic saying that Han always goes first. Which is now missing. For some reason you keep ignoring this reasoning and claiming that it’s WAI

    the interaction of Krennik is how they way the system is coded in that event and how Han is coded and how they interact in the new system.

    he never did this before because there was no overshoot system in place. nothing is missing, it was the thing that is added doing exactly what it is now told to do. NO there was not a mechanic to tell Han to go first, there was just no mechanic to look at the TM situation of Krennik and tell him to go before Han.

    Nothing you just said makes any sense. Nor does it jibe with what you have said on this topic before. You have stated before that the reason Krennik now goes first is because he has always gotten a bonus turn and the new system now gives him more priority because he has more TM than Han.

    You are now saying that there was nothing to compare Krennik and Han before. So did Krennik get a bonus turn or not? Because if he had a bonus turn before (your words), then yes there was a system to compare who should go first.

    no there was nothing in place before to compare the 2, so they would both get the bonus turns and Han would go first because there was nothing to tell the system to do other wise. now there is.

    it also only happens situationally, even in this event. it depends on the TM situation that you end with in the previous wave.

    which all jives with what I had said before.

    I was merely pointing out that Han didn't have any extra code that was removed that would have him go first, thats not what happened.
  • Gifafi wrote: »
    for like the 10th time already, han shoots first except in very few, very specific instances against computer teams in pve. it's irrelevant, ignore it. If you need han to shoot first in the last phase of smuggler's run my advice is to git gud and stop worrying about minutia that don't matter

    consistency is important even in pve, design team should streamline and update old tool tips. it is annoying now in a specific event, but can come up later in other game mode.

    If ability says takes a bonus turn at start of turn then be it that way. no +90 speed or 100%turn meter , no exceptions.. bonus turn, hands down. if both characters have this ability (han mirror) then higher speed should decide not a coin flip
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Ltswb1 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ltswb1 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ltswb1 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    yankeeh8er wrote: »
    Yeah it is beyond stupid. Every time krennic goes first it drives me insane. They need to change the wording of Han's ability to be: "Han sometimes goes first".

    ability titles have nothing to do with the description. which is still accurate.

    Except that they specifically mentioned this situation in the post releasing the new TM system, and said that Han should always go first. This is a bug, pure and simple. Sure it’s not a huge one in the grand scheme of things, but it is a bug. Otherwise, in the old system, it would have been a 50/50 coin flip and Krennik still would have gone sometimes. But he never did.

    If you feel this is a bug than you should be reporting it as such on <<Answers HQ>>.


    If you are referring to the line below, then you should realize that this is in specific reference to Han and Wat.
    ac6x70z2ueub.png

    I agree that he should shoot first, according to the mechanics listed, but I also recognize that issues of this nature should be treated as a low priority, as they have a very minor effect across the board.

    I believe it’s been posted as a bug already. I will look and see. You are ignoring the last part of my statement. Which I’ve seen you do several times from other posters.

    If it’s not a bug, then how come Krennik never went first in the old system? If they both got bonus turns, and there was no mechanic saying that Han should ALWAYS go first, then Krennik would have won 50/50 coin flips at least half the time. He NEVER did before. Which means there WAS a mechanic saying that Han always goes first. Which is now missing. For some reason you keep ignoring this reasoning and claiming that it’s WAI

    the interaction of Krennik is how they way the system is coded in that event and how Han is coded and how they interact in the new system.

    he never did this before because there was no overshoot system in place. nothing is missing, it was the thing that is added doing exactly what it is now told to do. NO there was not a mechanic to tell Han to go first, there was just no mechanic to look at the TM situation of Krennik and tell him to go before Han.

    Nothing you just said makes any sense. Nor does it jibe with what you have said on this topic before. You have stated before that the reason Krennik now goes first is because he has always gotten a bonus turn and the new system now gives him more priority because he has more TM than Han.

    You are now saying that there was nothing to compare Krennik and Han before. So did Krennik get a bonus turn or not? Because if he had a bonus turn before (your words), then yes there was a system to compare who should go first.

    no there was nothing in place before to compare the 2, so they would both get the bonus turns and Han would go first because there was nothing to tell the system to do other wise. now there is.

    it also only happens situationally, even in this event. it depends on the TM situation that you end with in the previous wave.

    which all jives with what I had said before.

    I was merely pointing out that Han didn't have any extra code that was removed that would have him go first, thats not what happened.

    This still doesn’t make sense. If they both got bonus turns before and there was nothing to compare the two, then how did Han always go first?
  • Ltswb1 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ltswb1 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ltswb1 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ltswb1 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    yankeeh8er wrote: »
    Yeah it is beyond stupid. Every time krennic goes first it drives me insane. They need to change the wording of Han's ability to be: "Han sometimes goes first".

    ability titles have nothing to do with the description. which is still accurate.

    Except that they specifically mentioned this situation in the post releasing the new TM system, and said that Han should always go first. This is a bug, pure and simple. Sure it’s not a huge one in the grand scheme of things, but it is a bug. Otherwise, in the old system, it would have been a 50/50 coin flip and Krennik still would have gone sometimes. But he never did.

    If you feel this is a bug than you should be reporting it as such on <<Answers HQ>>.


    If you are referring to the line below, then you should realize that this is in specific reference to Han and Wat.
    ac6x70z2ueub.png

    I agree that he should shoot first, according to the mechanics listed, but I also recognize that issues of this nature should be treated as a low priority, as they have a very minor effect across the board.

    I believe it’s been posted as a bug already. I will look and see. You are ignoring the last part of my statement. Which I’ve seen you do several times from other posters.

    If it’s not a bug, then how come Krennik never went first in the old system? If they both got bonus turns, and there was no mechanic saying that Han should ALWAYS go first, then Krennik would have won 50/50 coin flips at least half the time. He NEVER did before. Which means there WAS a mechanic saying that Han always goes first. Which is now missing. For some reason you keep ignoring this reasoning and claiming that it’s WAI

    the interaction of Krennik is how they way the system is coded in that event and how Han is coded and how they interact in the new system.

    he never did this before because there was no overshoot system in place. nothing is missing, it was the thing that is added doing exactly what it is now told to do. NO there was not a mechanic to tell Han to go first, there was just no mechanic to look at the TM situation of Krennik and tell him to go before Han.

    Nothing you just said makes any sense. Nor does it jibe with what you have said on this topic before. You have stated before that the reason Krennik now goes first is because he has always gotten a bonus turn and the new system now gives him more priority because he has more TM than Han.

    You are now saying that there was nothing to compare Krennik and Han before. So did Krennik get a bonus turn or not? Because if he had a bonus turn before (your words), then yes there was a system to compare who should go first.

    no there was nothing in place before to compare the 2, so they would both get the bonus turns and Han would go first because there was nothing to tell the system to do other wise. now there is.

    it also only happens situationally, even in this event. it depends on the TM situation that you end with in the previous wave.

    which all jives with what I had said before.

    I was merely pointing out that Han didn't have any extra code that was removed that would have him go first, thats not what happened.

    This still doesn’t make sense. If they both got bonus turns before and there was nothing to compare the two, then how did Han always go first?

    Start by saying I have a simple hypothesis why this all happens. Krennic starts with a bonus turn not 100% TM this is important and you will see why.

    Old Version: It was likely just hard programmed that if han is on the field at the start of any battle (or phase) he shoots first.

    New Version: In the event two things get bonus turns it goes: who has more TM overflow, if tied then who has higher base speed, if tied then random.
    In the case where han goes last at the end of the previous phase (he now has 0% TM):
    Han TM overflow = 0
    Krennic TM Overflow = 0

    So then who has higher base speed (likely krennic)
    - because stats are disproportionately boosted in challenge teirs, krennic likely has higher base speed which is why it's not a 50/50

    In the case where han does not go last at the end of the previous phase (he now has TM>0% ):
    NOW in the order of operations when han gets a bonus turn he has overflow which is why he goes first before krennic!

    Mike Drop

    I think the reason they made the TM system changes was because of the convoluted nature of hard coding TM effects. Which is a good thing, it's now more predictable. I think this is an unintended consequence, but it's also not a big deal as many have pointed out.

    If my hypothesis is right the simple way to fix it would be to start there characters at 100% TM not with bonus turns.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Mirkraag wrote: »
    So if it is not a bug, it is a nerf. Han doesnt shoot first anymore

    incorrect. it is only unique edge cases where this will happen.

    Still. Even if it happens once, he is not shooting first anymore. They should test this, and add a specific rule for this case to let han shoot first.

    It is called proper work and not amateur game design
  • Mirkraag wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Mirkraag wrote: »
    So if it is not a bug, it is a nerf. Han doesnt shoot first anymore

    incorrect. it is only unique edge cases where this will happen.

    Still. Even if it happens once, he is not shooting first anymore. They should test this, and add a specific rule for this case to let han shoot first.

    It is called proper work and not amateur game design

    I agree with you to an extent please look two comments above to see the likely explanation I made of why this happens.

    But to your own fault no where in his unique ability descriptions does it say han shoots first, it says he gains a bonus turn at the start of a round. The unique ability is called "shoots first" and the character description says he shoots first but when you look at his unique description he gets a bonus turn.

    I don't think it's fair for you to say it's amateur game design, when it is quite the opposite in the older TM system that was very much more random for bonus turns and TM %s every TM related thing was likely hard coded which is not how you should design something (and is amateur game design), given they created a new system with essentially 6 cases (SIMPLE) this became an unintended consequence that I am sure they could fix.
  • Darion wrote: »
    Ltswb1 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ltswb1 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ltswb1 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ltswb1 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    yankeeh8er wrote: »
    Yeah it is beyond stupid. Every time krennic goes first it drives me insane. They need to change the wording of Han's ability to be: "Han sometimes goes first".

    ability titles have nothing to do with the description. which is still accurate.

    Except that they specifically mentioned this situation in the post releasing the new TM system, and said that Han should always go first. This is a bug, pure and simple. Sure it’s not a huge one in the grand scheme of things, but it is a bug. Otherwise, in the old system, it would have been a 50/50 coin flip and Krennik still would have gone sometimes. But he never did.

    If you feel this is a bug than you should be reporting it as such on <<Answers HQ>>.


    If you are referring to the line below, then you should realize that this is in specific reference to Han and Wat.
    ac6x70z2ueub.png

    I agree that he should shoot first, according to the mechanics listed, but I also recognize that issues of this nature should be treated as a low priority, as they have a very minor effect across the board.

    I believe it’s been posted as a bug already. I will look and see. You are ignoring the last part of my statement. Which I’ve seen you do several times from other posters.

    If it’s not a bug, then how come Krennik never went first in the old system? If they both got bonus turns, and there was no mechanic saying that Han should ALWAYS go first, then Krennik would have won 50/50 coin flips at least half the time. He NEVER did before. Which means there WAS a mechanic saying that Han always goes first. Which is now missing. For some reason you keep ignoring this reasoning and claiming that it’s WAI

    the interaction of Krennik is how they way the system is coded in that event and how Han is coded and how they interact in the new system.

    he never did this before because there was no overshoot system in place. nothing is missing, it was the thing that is added doing exactly what it is now told to do. NO there was not a mechanic to tell Han to go first, there was just no mechanic to look at the TM situation of Krennik and tell him to go before Han.

    Nothing you just said makes any sense. Nor does it jibe with what you have said on this topic before. You have stated before that the reason Krennik now goes first is because he has always gotten a bonus turn and the new system now gives him more priority because he has more TM than Han.

    You are now saying that there was nothing to compare Krennik and Han before. So did Krennik get a bonus turn or not? Because if he had a bonus turn before (your words), then yes there was a system to compare who should go first.

    no there was nothing in place before to compare the 2, so they would both get the bonus turns and Han would go first because there was nothing to tell the system to do other wise. now there is.

    it also only happens situationally, even in this event. it depends on the TM situation that you end with in the previous wave.

    which all jives with what I had said before.

    I was merely pointing out that Han didn't have any extra code that was removed that would have him go first, thats not what happened.

    This still doesn’t make sense. If they both got bonus turns before and there was nothing to compare the two, then how did Han always go first?

    Start by saying I have a simple hypothesis why this all happens. Krennic starts with a bonus turn not 100% TM this is important and you will see why.

    Old Version: It was likely just hard programmed that if han is on the field at the start of any battle (or phase) he shoots first.

    New Version: In the event two things get bonus turns it goes: who has more TM overflow, if tied then who has higher base speed, if tied then random.
    In the case where han goes last at the end of the previous phase (he now has 0% TM):
    Han TM overflow = 0
    Krennic TM Overflow = 0

    So then who has higher base speed (likely krennic)
    - because stats are disproportionately boosted in challenge teirs, krennic likely has higher base speed which is why it's not a 50/50

    In the case where han does not go last at the end of the previous phase (he now has TM>0% ):
    NOW in the order of operations when han gets a bonus turn he has overflow which is why he goes first before krennic!

    Mike Drop

    I think the reason they made the TM system changes was because of the convoluted nature of hard coding TM effects. Which is a good thing, it's now more predictable. I think this is an unintended consequence, but it's also not a big deal as many have pointed out.

    If my hypothesis is right the simple way to fix it would be to start there characters at 100% TM not with bonus turns.

    Except that this goes against what Kyno just said. He specifically stated that there was nothing in the the old system that said Han always goes first. What you described is exactly what I started the conversation with. That Han had something in game that said he always went first, and now that something is gone. Kyno specifically states that that is not true. I find that hard to believe as evidence states otherwise.
  • Ltswb1 wrote: »
    Darion wrote: »
    Ltswb1 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ltswb1 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ltswb1 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ltswb1 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    yankeeh8er wrote: »
    Yeah it is beyond stupid. Every time krennic goes first it drives me insane. They need to change the wording of Han's ability to be: "Han sometimes goes first".

    ability titles have nothing to do with the description. which is still accurate.

    Except that they specifically mentioned this situation in the post releasing the new TM system, and said that Han should always go first. This is a bug, pure and simple. Sure it’s not a huge one in the grand scheme of things, but it is a bug. Otherwise, in the old system, it would have been a 50/50 coin flip and Krennik still would have gone sometimes. But he never did.

    If you feel this is a bug than you should be reporting it as such on <<Answers HQ>>.


    If you are referring to the line below, then you should realize that this is in specific reference to Han and Wat.
    ac6x70z2ueub.png

    I agree that he should shoot first, according to the mechanics listed, but I also recognize that issues of this nature should be treated as a low priority, as they have a very minor effect across the board.

    I believe it’s been posted as a bug already. I will look and see. You are ignoring the last part of my statement. Which I’ve seen you do several times from other posters.

    If it’s not a bug, then how come Krennik never went first in the old system? If they both got bonus turns, and there was no mechanic saying that Han should ALWAYS go first, then Krennik would have won 50/50 coin flips at least half the time. He NEVER did before. Which means there WAS a mechanic saying that Han always goes first. Which is now missing. For some reason you keep ignoring this reasoning and claiming that it’s WAI

    the interaction of Krennik is how they way the system is coded in that event and how Han is coded and how they interact in the new system.

    he never did this before because there was no overshoot system in place. nothing is missing, it was the thing that is added doing exactly what it is now told to do. NO there was not a mechanic to tell Han to go first, there was just no mechanic to look at the TM situation of Krennik and tell him to go before Han.

    Nothing you just said makes any sense. Nor does it jibe with what you have said on this topic before. You have stated before that the reason Krennik now goes first is because he has always gotten a bonus turn and the new system now gives him more priority because he has more TM than Han.

    You are now saying that there was nothing to compare Krennik and Han before. So did Krennik get a bonus turn or not? Because if he had a bonus turn before (your words), then yes there was a system to compare who should go first.

    no there was nothing in place before to compare the 2, so they would both get the bonus turns and Han would go first because there was nothing to tell the system to do other wise. now there is.

    it also only happens situationally, even in this event. it depends on the TM situation that you end with in the previous wave.

    which all jives with what I had said before.

    I was merely pointing out that Han didn't have any extra code that was removed that would have him go first, thats not what happened.

    This still doesn’t make sense. If they both got bonus turns before and there was nothing to compare the two, then how did Han always go first?

    Start by saying I have a simple hypothesis why this all happens. Krennic starts with a bonus turn not 100% TM this is important and you will see why.

    Old Version: It was likely just hard programmed that if han is on the field at the start of any battle (or phase) he shoots first.

    New Version: In the event two things get bonus turns it goes: who has more TM overflow, if tied then who has higher base speed, if tied then random.
    In the case where han goes last at the end of the previous phase (he now has 0% TM):
    Han TM overflow = 0
    Krennic TM Overflow = 0

    So then who has higher base speed (likely krennic)
    - because stats are disproportionately boosted in challenge teirs, krennic likely has higher base speed which is why it's not a 50/50

    In the case where han does not go last at the end of the previous phase (he now has TM>0% ):
    NOW in the order of operations when han gets a bonus turn he has overflow which is why he goes first before krennic!

    Mike Drop

    I think the reason they made the TM system changes was because of the convoluted nature of hard coding TM effects. Which is a good thing, it's now more predictable. I think this is an unintended consequence, but it's also not a big deal as many have pointed out.

    If my hypothesis is right the simple way to fix it would be to start there characters at 100% TM not with bonus turns.

    Except that this goes against what Kyno just said. He specifically stated that there was nothing in the the old system that said Han always goes first. What you described is exactly what I started the conversation with. That Han had something in game that said he always went first, and now that something is gone. Kyno specifically states that that is not true. I find that hard to believe as evidence states otherwise.

    I see what your saying now, and although I still stand by my hypothesis about the new system I could be mistaken about the old system then...

    But I doubt it 😁 you have two characters who gain bonus turns at the start of an encounter Han and Wat.
    If it wasnt hard coded their would be many more cases of it being random who went first in the old system (to the best of my knowledge that was never an issue) THEREFORE it had to have been hard-coded that han took precedence over what.
  • Darion wrote: »
    Ltswb1 wrote: »
    Darion wrote: »
    Ltswb1 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ltswb1 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ltswb1 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ltswb1 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    yankeeh8er wrote: »
    Yeah it is beyond stupid. Every time krennic goes first it drives me insane. They need to change the wording of Han's ability to be: "Han sometimes goes first".

    ability titles have nothing to do with the description. which is still accurate.

    Except that they specifically mentioned this situation in the post releasing the new TM system, and said that Han should always go first. This is a bug, pure and simple. Sure it’s not a huge one in the grand scheme of things, but it is a bug. Otherwise, in the old system, it would have been a 50/50 coin flip and Krennik still would have gone sometimes. But he never did.

    If you feel this is a bug than you should be reporting it as such on <<Answers HQ>>.


    If you are referring to the line below, then you should realize that this is in specific reference to Han and Wat.
    ac6x70z2ueub.png

    I agree that he should shoot first, according to the mechanics listed, but I also recognize that issues of this nature should be treated as a low priority, as they have a very minor effect across the board.

    I believe it’s been posted as a bug already. I will look and see. You are ignoring the last part of my statement. Which I’ve seen you do several times from other posters.

    If it’s not a bug, then how come Krennik never went first in the old system? If they both got bonus turns, and there was no mechanic saying that Han should ALWAYS go first, then Krennik would have won 50/50 coin flips at least half the time. He NEVER did before. Which means there WAS a mechanic saying that Han always goes first. Which is now missing. For some reason you keep ignoring this reasoning and claiming that it’s WAI

    the interaction of Krennik is how they way the system is coded in that event and how Han is coded and how they interact in the new system.

    he never did this before because there was no overshoot system in place. nothing is missing, it was the thing that is added doing exactly what it is now told to do. NO there was not a mechanic to tell Han to go first, there was just no mechanic to look at the TM situation of Krennik and tell him to go before Han.

    Nothing you just said makes any sense. Nor does it jibe with what you have said on this topic before. You have stated before that the reason Krennik now goes first is because he has always gotten a bonus turn and the new system now gives him more priority because he has more TM than Han.

    You are now saying that there was nothing to compare Krennik and Han before. So did Krennik get a bonus turn or not? Because if he had a bonus turn before (your words), then yes there was a system to compare who should go first.

    no there was nothing in place before to compare the 2, so they would both get the bonus turns and Han would go first because there was nothing to tell the system to do other wise. now there is.

    it also only happens situationally, even in this event. it depends on the TM situation that you end with in the previous wave.

    which all jives with what I had said before.

    I was merely pointing out that Han didn't have any extra code that was removed that would have him go first, thats not what happened.

    This still doesn’t make sense. If they both got bonus turns before and there was nothing to compare the two, then how did Han always go first?

    Start by saying I have a simple hypothesis why this all happens. Krennic starts with a bonus turn not 100% TM this is important and you will see why.

    Old Version: It was likely just hard programmed that if han is on the field at the start of any battle (or phase) he shoots first.

    New Version: In the event two things get bonus turns it goes: who has more TM overflow, if tied then who has higher base speed, if tied then random.
    In the case where han goes last at the end of the previous phase (he now has 0% TM):
    Han TM overflow = 0
    Krennic TM Overflow = 0

    So then who has higher base speed (likely krennic)
    - because stats are disproportionately boosted in challenge teirs, krennic likely has higher base speed which is why it's not a 50/50

    In the case where han does not go last at the end of the previous phase (he now has TM>0% ):
    NOW in the order of operations when han gets a bonus turn he has overflow which is why he goes first before krennic!

    Mike Drop

    I think the reason they made the TM system changes was because of the convoluted nature of hard coding TM effects. Which is a good thing, it's now more predictable. I think this is an unintended consequence, but it's also not a big deal as many have pointed out.

    If my hypothesis is right the simple way to fix it would be to start there characters at 100% TM not with bonus turns.

    Except that this goes against what Kyno just said. He specifically stated that there was nothing in the the old system that said Han always goes first. What you described is exactly what I started the conversation with. That Han had something in game that said he always went first, and now that something is gone. Kyno specifically states that that is not true. I find that hard to believe as evidence states otherwise.

    I see what your saying now, and although I still stand by my hypothesis about the new system I could be mistaken about the old system then...

    But I doubt it 😁 you have two characters who gain bonus turns at the start of an encounter Han and Wat.
    If it wasnt hard coded their would be many more cases of it being random who went first in the old system (to the best of my knowledge that was never an issue) THEREFORE it had to have been hard-coded that han took precedence over what.

    Edit: I just saw one of his comments, he never said han wasn't hard coded, he said there was no system before to compare two bonus turns
  • Darion wrote: »
    Darion wrote: »
    Ltswb1 wrote: »
    Darion wrote: »
    Ltswb1 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ltswb1 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ltswb1 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ltswb1 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    yankeeh8er wrote: »
    Yeah it is beyond stupid. Every time krennic goes first it drives me insane. They need to change the wording of Han's ability to be: "Han sometimes goes first".

    ability titles have nothing to do with the description. which is still accurate.

    Except that they specifically mentioned this situation in the post releasing the new TM system, and said that Han should always go first. This is a bug, pure and simple. Sure it’s not a huge one in the grand scheme of things, but it is a bug. Otherwise, in the old system, it would have been a 50/50 coin flip and Krennik still would have gone sometimes. But he never did.

    If you feel this is a bug than you should be reporting it as such on <<Answers HQ>>.


    If you are referring to the line below, then you should realize that this is in specific reference to Han and Wat.
    ac6x70z2ueub.png

    I agree that he should shoot first, according to the mechanics listed, but I also recognize that issues of this nature should be treated as a low priority, as they have a very minor effect across the board.

    I believe it’s been posted as a bug already. I will look and see. You are ignoring the last part of my statement. Which I’ve seen you do several times from other posters.

    If it’s not a bug, then how come Krennik never went first in the old system? If they both got bonus turns, and there was no mechanic saying that Han should ALWAYS go first, then Krennik would have won 50/50 coin flips at least half the time. He NEVER did before. Which means there WAS a mechanic saying that Han always goes first. Which is now missing. For some reason you keep ignoring this reasoning and claiming that it’s WAI

    the interaction of Krennik is how they way the system is coded in that event and how Han is coded and how they interact in the new system.

    he never did this before because there was no overshoot system in place. nothing is missing, it was the thing that is added doing exactly what it is now told to do. NO there was not a mechanic to tell Han to go first, there was just no mechanic to look at the TM situation of Krennik and tell him to go before Han.

    Nothing you just said makes any sense. Nor does it jibe with what you have said on this topic before. You have stated before that the reason Krennik now goes first is because he has always gotten a bonus turn and the new system now gives him more priority because he has more TM than Han.

    You are now saying that there was nothing to compare Krennik and Han before. So did Krennik get a bonus turn or not? Because if he had a bonus turn before (your words), then yes there was a system to compare who should go first.

    no there was nothing in place before to compare the 2, so they would both get the bonus turns and Han would go first because there was nothing to tell the system to do other wise. now there is.

    it also only happens situationally, even in this event. it depends on the TM situation that you end with in the previous wave.

    which all jives with what I had said before.

    I was merely pointing out that Han didn't have any extra code that was removed that would have him go first, thats not what happened.

    This still doesn’t make sense. If they both got bonus turns before and there was nothing to compare the two, then how did Han always go first?

    Start by saying I have a simple hypothesis why this all happens. Krennic starts with a bonus turn not 100% TM this is important and you will see why.

    Old Version: It was likely just hard programmed that if han is on the field at the start of any battle (or phase) he shoots first.

    New Version: In the event two things get bonus turns it goes: who has more TM overflow, if tied then who has higher base speed, if tied then random.
    In the case where han goes last at the end of the previous phase (he now has 0% TM):
    Han TM overflow = 0
    Krennic TM Overflow = 0

    So then who has higher base speed (likely krennic)
    - because stats are disproportionately boosted in challenge teirs, krennic likely has higher base speed which is why it's not a 50/50

    In the case where han does not go last at the end of the previous phase (he now has TM>0% ):
    NOW in the order of operations when han gets a bonus turn he has overflow which is why he goes first before krennic!

    Mike Drop

    I think the reason they made the TM system changes was because of the convoluted nature of hard coding TM effects. Which is a good thing, it's now more predictable. I think this is an unintended consequence, but it's also not a big deal as many have pointed out.

    If my hypothesis is right the simple way to fix it would be to start there characters at 100% TM not with bonus turns.

    Except that this goes against what Kyno just said. He specifically stated that there was nothing in the the old system that said Han always goes first. What you described is exactly what I started the conversation with. That Han had something in game that said he always went first, and now that something is gone. Kyno specifically states that that is not true. I find that hard to believe as evidence states otherwise.

    I see what your saying now, and although I still stand by my hypothesis about the new system I could be mistaken about the old system then...

    But I doubt it 😁 you have two characters who gain bonus turns at the start of an encounter Han and Wat.
    If it wasnt hard coded their would be many more cases of it being random who went first in the old system (to the best of my knowledge that was never an issue) THEREFORE it had to have been hard-coded that han took precedence over what.

    Edit: I just saw one of his comments, he never said han wasn't hard coded, he said there was no system before to compare two bonus turns

    But there was. It was a system of chance. 50/50 coin flip. Which is why two Hans facing each other was always a tossup.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Ltswb1 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    yankeeh8er wrote: »
    Yeah it is beyond stupid. Every time krennic goes first it drives me insane. They need to change the wording of Han's ability to be: "Han sometimes goes first".

    ability titles have nothing to do with the description. which is still accurate.

    Except that they specifically mentioned this situation in the post releasing the new TM system, and said that Han should always go first. This is a bug, pure and simple. Sure it’s not a huge one in the grand scheme of things, but it is a bug. Otherwise, in the old system, it would have been a 50/50 coin flip and Krennik still would have gone sometimes. But he never did.

    If you feel this is a bug than you should be reporting it as such on <<Answers HQ>>.


    If you are referring to the line below, then you should realize that this is in specific reference to Han and Wat.
    ac6x70z2ueub.png

    If wat has more speed than Han will Han still shoot first?
  • TVF
    25530 posts Member
    Ltswb1 wrote: »
    Darion wrote: »
    Darion wrote: »
    Ltswb1 wrote: »
    Darion wrote: »
    Ltswb1 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ltswb1 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ltswb1 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ltswb1 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    yankeeh8er wrote: »
    Yeah it is beyond stupid. Every time krennic goes first it drives me insane. They need to change the wording of Han's ability to be: "Han sometimes goes first".

    ability titles have nothing to do with the description. which is still accurate.

    Except that they specifically mentioned this situation in the post releasing the new TM system, and said that Han should always go first. This is a bug, pure and simple. Sure it’s not a huge one in the grand scheme of things, but it is a bug. Otherwise, in the old system, it would have been a 50/50 coin flip and Krennik still would have gone sometimes. But he never did.

    If you feel this is a bug than you should be reporting it as such on <<Answers HQ>>.


    If you are referring to the line below, then you should realize that this is in specific reference to Han and Wat.
    ac6x70z2ueub.png

    I agree that he should shoot first, according to the mechanics listed, but I also recognize that issues of this nature should be treated as a low priority, as they have a very minor effect across the board.

    I believe it’s been posted as a bug already. I will look and see. You are ignoring the last part of my statement. Which I’ve seen you do several times from other posters.

    If it’s not a bug, then how come Krennik never went first in the old system? If they both got bonus turns, and there was no mechanic saying that Han should ALWAYS go first, then Krennik would have won 50/50 coin flips at least half the time. He NEVER did before. Which means there WAS a mechanic saying that Han always goes first. Which is now missing. For some reason you keep ignoring this reasoning and claiming that it’s WAI

    the interaction of Krennik is how they way the system is coded in that event and how Han is coded and how they interact in the new system.

    he never did this before because there was no overshoot system in place. nothing is missing, it was the thing that is added doing exactly what it is now told to do. NO there was not a mechanic to tell Han to go first, there was just no mechanic to look at the TM situation of Krennik and tell him to go before Han.

    Nothing you just said makes any sense. Nor does it jibe with what you have said on this topic before. You have stated before that the reason Krennik now goes first is because he has always gotten a bonus turn and the new system now gives him more priority because he has more TM than Han.

    You are now saying that there was nothing to compare Krennik and Han before. So did Krennik get a bonus turn or not? Because if he had a bonus turn before (your words), then yes there was a system to compare who should go first.

    no there was nothing in place before to compare the 2, so they would both get the bonus turns and Han would go first because there was nothing to tell the system to do other wise. now there is.

    it also only happens situationally, even in this event. it depends on the TM situation that you end with in the previous wave.

    which all jives with what I had said before.

    I was merely pointing out that Han didn't have any extra code that was removed that would have him go first, thats not what happened.

    This still doesn’t make sense. If they both got bonus turns before and there was nothing to compare the two, then how did Han always go first?

    Start by saying I have a simple hypothesis why this all happens. Krennic starts with a bonus turn not 100% TM this is important and you will see why.

    Old Version: It was likely just hard programmed that if han is on the field at the start of any battle (or phase) he shoots first.

    New Version: In the event two things get bonus turns it goes: who has more TM overflow, if tied then who has higher base speed, if tied then random.
    In the case where han goes last at the end of the previous phase (he now has 0% TM):
    Han TM overflow = 0
    Krennic TM Overflow = 0

    So then who has higher base speed (likely krennic)
    - because stats are disproportionately boosted in challenge teirs, krennic likely has higher base speed which is why it's not a 50/50

    In the case where han does not go last at the end of the previous phase (he now has TM>0% ):
    NOW in the order of operations when han gets a bonus turn he has overflow which is why he goes first before krennic!

    Mike Drop

    I think the reason they made the TM system changes was because of the convoluted nature of hard coding TM effects. Which is a good thing, it's now more predictable. I think this is an unintended consequence, but it's also not a big deal as many have pointed out.

    If my hypothesis is right the simple way to fix it would be to start there characters at 100% TM not with bonus turns.

    Except that this goes against what Kyno just said. He specifically stated that there was nothing in the the old system that said Han always goes first. What you described is exactly what I started the conversation with. That Han had something in game that said he always went first, and now that something is gone. Kyno specifically states that that is not true. I find that hard to believe as evidence states otherwise.

    I see what your saying now, and although I still stand by my hypothesis about the new system I could be mistaken about the old system then...

    But I doubt it 😁 you have two characters who gain bonus turns at the start of an encounter Han and Wat.
    If it wasnt hard coded their would be many more cases of it being random who went first in the old system (to the best of my knowledge that was never an issue) THEREFORE it had to have been hard-coded that han took precedence over what.

    Edit: I just saw one of his comments, he never said han wasn't hard coded, he said there was no system before to compare two bonus turns

    But there was. It was a system of chance. 50/50 coin flip. Which is why two Hans facing each other was always a tossup.

    Actually it wasn't, there was a change a while back (before all of this) to make the AI Han always go first. Same with Wat.
    The CGDF is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Ltswb1 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    yankeeh8er wrote: »
    Yeah it is beyond stupid. Every time krennic goes first it drives me insane. They need to change the wording of Han's ability to be: "Han sometimes goes first".

    ability titles have nothing to do with the description. which is still accurate.

    Except that they specifically mentioned this situation in the post releasing the new TM system, and said that Han should always go first. This is a bug, pure and simple. Sure it’s not a huge one in the grand scheme of things, but it is a bug. Otherwise, in the old system, it would have been a 50/50 coin flip and Krennik still would have gone sometimes. But he never did.

    If you feel this is a bug than you should be reporting it as such on <<Answers HQ>>.


    If you are referring to the line below, then you should realize that this is in specific reference to Han and Wat.
    ac6x70z2ueub.png

    If wat has more speed than Han will Han still shoot first?
    Yes.
  • TVF wrote: »
    Ltswb1 wrote: »
    Darion wrote: »
    Darion wrote: »
    Ltswb1 wrote: »
    Darion wrote: »
    Ltswb1 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ltswb1 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ltswb1 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ltswb1 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    yankeeh8er wrote: »
    Yeah it is beyond stupid. Every time krennic goes first it drives me insane. They need to change the wording of Han's ability to be: "Han sometimes goes first".

    ability titles have nothing to do with the description. which is still accurate.

    Except that they specifically mentioned this situation in the post releasing the new TM system, and said that Han should always go first. This is a bug, pure and simple. Sure it’s not a huge one in the grand scheme of things, but it is a bug. Otherwise, in the old system, it would have been a 50/50 coin flip and Krennik still would have gone sometimes. But he never did.

    If you feel this is a bug than you should be reporting it as such on <<Answers HQ>>.


    If you are referring to the line below, then you should realize that this is in specific reference to Han and Wat.
    ac6x70z2ueub.png

    I agree that he should shoot first, according to the mechanics listed, but I also recognize that issues of this nature should be treated as a low priority, as they have a very minor effect across the board.

    I believe it’s been posted as a bug already. I will look and see. You are ignoring the last part of my statement. Which I’ve seen you do several times from other posters.

    If it’s not a bug, then how come Krennik never went first in the old system? If they both got bonus turns, and there was no mechanic saying that Han should ALWAYS go first, then Krennik would have won 50/50 coin flips at least half the time. He NEVER did before. Which means there WAS a mechanic saying that Han always goes first. Which is now missing. For some reason you keep ignoring this reasoning and claiming that it’s WAI

    the interaction of Krennik is how they way the system is coded in that event and how Han is coded and how they interact in the new system.

    he never did this before because there was no overshoot system in place. nothing is missing, it was the thing that is added doing exactly what it is now told to do. NO there was not a mechanic to tell Han to go first, there was just no mechanic to look at the TM situation of Krennik and tell him to go before Han.

    Nothing you just said makes any sense. Nor does it jibe with what you have said on this topic before. You have stated before that the reason Krennik now goes first is because he has always gotten a bonus turn and the new system now gives him more priority because he has more TM than Han.

    You are now saying that there was nothing to compare Krennik and Han before. So did Krennik get a bonus turn or not? Because if he had a bonus turn before (your words), then yes there was a system to compare who should go first.

    no there was nothing in place before to compare the 2, so they would both get the bonus turns and Han would go first because there was nothing to tell the system to do other wise. now there is.

    it also only happens situationally, even in this event. it depends on the TM situation that you end with in the previous wave.

    which all jives with what I had said before.

    I was merely pointing out that Han didn't have any extra code that was removed that would have him go first, thats not what happened.

    This still doesn’t make sense. If they both got bonus turns before and there was nothing to compare the two, then how did Han always go first?

    Start by saying I have a simple hypothesis why this all happens. Krennic starts with a bonus turn not 100% TM this is important and you will see why.

    Old Version: It was likely just hard programmed that if han is on the field at the start of any battle (or phase) he shoots first.

    New Version: In the event two things get bonus turns it goes: who has more TM overflow, if tied then who has higher base speed, if tied then random.
    In the case where han goes last at the end of the previous phase (he now has 0% TM):
    Han TM overflow = 0
    Krennic TM Overflow = 0

    So then who has higher base speed (likely krennic)
    - because stats are disproportionately boosted in challenge teirs, krennic likely has higher base speed which is why it's not a 50/50

    In the case where han does not go last at the end of the previous phase (he now has TM>0% ):
    NOW in the order of operations when han gets a bonus turn he has overflow which is why he goes first before krennic!

    Mike Drop

    I think the reason they made the TM system changes was because of the convoluted nature of hard coding TM effects. Which is a good thing, it's now more predictable. I think this is an unintended consequence, but it's also not a big deal as many have pointed out.

    If my hypothesis is right the simple way to fix it would be to start there characters at 100% TM not with bonus turns.

    Except that this goes against what Kyno just said. He specifically stated that there was nothing in the the old system that said Han always goes first. What you described is exactly what I started the conversation with. That Han had something in game that said he always went first, and now that something is gone. Kyno specifically states that that is not true. I find that hard to believe as evidence states otherwise.

    I see what your saying now, and although I still stand by my hypothesis about the new system I could be mistaken about the old system then...

    But I doubt it 😁 you have two characters who gain bonus turns at the start of an encounter Han and Wat.
    If it wasnt hard coded their would be many more cases of it being random who went first in the old system (to the best of my knowledge that was never an issue) THEREFORE it had to have been hard-coded that han took precedence over what.

    Edit: I just saw one of his comments, he never said han wasn't hard coded, he said there was no system before to compare two bonus turns

    But there was. It was a system of chance. 50/50 coin flip. Which is why two Hans facing each other was always a tossup.

    Actually it wasn't, there was a change a while back (before all of this) to make the AI Han always go first. Same with Wat.

    But that goes against Kyno’s statement that there was nothing in the game that said Han goes first. So....
  • Kyno wrote: »
    yankeeh8er wrote: »
    Yeah it is beyond stupid. Every time krennic goes first it drives me insane. They need to change the wording of Han's ability to be: "Han sometimes goes first".

    ability titles have nothing to do with the description. which is still accurate.

    thats weird, where they get the abilities name then when it has nothing to do w it
  • TVF
    25530 posts Member
    Ltswb1 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Ltswb1 wrote: »
    Darion wrote: »
    Darion wrote: »
    Ltswb1 wrote: »
    Darion wrote: »
    Ltswb1 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ltswb1 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ltswb1 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ltswb1 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    yankeeh8er wrote: »
    Yeah it is beyond stupid. Every time krennic goes first it drives me insane. They need to change the wording of Han's ability to be: "Han sometimes goes first".

    ability titles have nothing to do with the description. which is still accurate.

    Except that they specifically mentioned this situation in the post releasing the new TM system, and said that Han should always go first. This is a bug, pure and simple. Sure it’s not a huge one in the grand scheme of things, but it is a bug. Otherwise, in the old system, it would have been a 50/50 coin flip and Krennik still would have gone sometimes. But he never did.

    If you feel this is a bug than you should be reporting it as such on <<Answers HQ>>.


    If you are referring to the line below, then you should realize that this is in specific reference to Han and Wat.
    ac6x70z2ueub.png

    I agree that he should shoot first, according to the mechanics listed, but I also recognize that issues of this nature should be treated as a low priority, as they have a very minor effect across the board.

    I believe it’s been posted as a bug already. I will look and see. You are ignoring the last part of my statement. Which I’ve seen you do several times from other posters.

    If it’s not a bug, then how come Krennik never went first in the old system? If they both got bonus turns, and there was no mechanic saying that Han should ALWAYS go first, then Krennik would have won 50/50 coin flips at least half the time. He NEVER did before. Which means there WAS a mechanic saying that Han always goes first. Which is now missing. For some reason you keep ignoring this reasoning and claiming that it’s WAI

    the interaction of Krennik is how they way the system is coded in that event and how Han is coded and how they interact in the new system.

    he never did this before because there was no overshoot system in place. nothing is missing, it was the thing that is added doing exactly what it is now told to do. NO there was not a mechanic to tell Han to go first, there was just no mechanic to look at the TM situation of Krennik and tell him to go before Han.

    Nothing you just said makes any sense. Nor does it jibe with what you have said on this topic before. You have stated before that the reason Krennik now goes first is because he has always gotten a bonus turn and the new system now gives him more priority because he has more TM than Han.

    You are now saying that there was nothing to compare Krennik and Han before. So did Krennik get a bonus turn or not? Because if he had a bonus turn before (your words), then yes there was a system to compare who should go first.

    no there was nothing in place before to compare the 2, so they would both get the bonus turns and Han would go first because there was nothing to tell the system to do other wise. now there is.

    it also only happens situationally, even in this event. it depends on the TM situation that you end with in the previous wave.

    which all jives with what I had said before.

    I was merely pointing out that Han didn't have any extra code that was removed that would have him go first, thats not what happened.

    This still doesn’t make sense. If they both got bonus turns before and there was nothing to compare the two, then how did Han always go first?

    Start by saying I have a simple hypothesis why this all happens. Krennic starts with a bonus turn not 100% TM this is important and you will see why.

    Old Version: It was likely just hard programmed that if han is on the field at the start of any battle (or phase) he shoots first.

    New Version: In the event two things get bonus turns it goes: who has more TM overflow, if tied then who has higher base speed, if tied then random.
    In the case where han goes last at the end of the previous phase (he now has 0% TM):
    Han TM overflow = 0
    Krennic TM Overflow = 0

    So then who has higher base speed (likely krennic)
    - because stats are disproportionately boosted in challenge teirs, krennic likely has higher base speed which is why it's not a 50/50

    In the case where han does not go last at the end of the previous phase (he now has TM>0% ):
    NOW in the order of operations when han gets a bonus turn he has overflow which is why he goes first before krennic!

    Mike Drop

    I think the reason they made the TM system changes was because of the convoluted nature of hard coding TM effects. Which is a good thing, it's now more predictable. I think this is an unintended consequence, but it's also not a big deal as many have pointed out.

    If my hypothesis is right the simple way to fix it would be to start there characters at 100% TM not with bonus turns.

    Except that this goes against what Kyno just said. He specifically stated that there was nothing in the the old system that said Han always goes first. What you described is exactly what I started the conversation with. That Han had something in game that said he always went first, and now that something is gone. Kyno specifically states that that is not true. I find that hard to believe as evidence states otherwise.

    I see what your saying now, and although I still stand by my hypothesis about the new system I could be mistaken about the old system then...

    But I doubt it 😁 you have two characters who gain bonus turns at the start of an encounter Han and Wat.
    If it wasnt hard coded their would be many more cases of it being random who went first in the old system (to the best of my knowledge that was never an issue) THEREFORE it had to have been hard-coded that han took precedence over what.

    Edit: I just saw one of his comments, he never said han wasn't hard coded, he said there was no system before to compare two bonus turns

    But there was. It was a system of chance. 50/50 coin flip. Which is why two Hans facing each other was always a tossup.

    Actually it wasn't, there was a change a while back (before all of this) to make the AI Han always go first. Same with Wat.

    But that goes against Kyno’s statement that there was nothing in the game that said Han goes first. So....

    So Kyno was wrong (for that period at least).
    The CGDF is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • The advantages of the overflow changes still massively outweigh the negatives.

    It greatly reduces RNG in pretty much all battles.

    I will take that if the cost is a small bug in an old event that should probably be simmable anyway.
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