Is nerfing Kylo for raids really a bad idea?

Hera_from_Ryloth
2 posts Member
edited July 12
Hear me out on this. I know the first reaction for a lot of people when they hear nerf and Kylo in the same sentence would (at best) probably go something like: just don't go there. But I want to put this out there for consideration anyway.

What if CG just added a raid specific clause in his kit that limited his mastery stacking against raid bosses and raid side enemies? They've put in conditional clauses like that for raids before. The positives seems numerous and the negatives few.
- It would only affect raids, leaving no possibility of Kylo being affected for squad fights, events, or TBs.
- It would let CG have more freedom designing future raids if they don't have to design everything around the Kylo factor, which means less dev time, and faster production of new raids for us (would you like more new raids faster? I would).
- The Sith raid: right now, you can have a guild where all 50 get the same score. At that point, it's just a chore with random rewards and why not just add a sim option and at least make players lives easier and reduce the level of grumbling about "I soloed the raid and still got last place" because that's a legitimate thing to have just cause to grumble about.
- The Crancor raid: Again, it gives CG more freedom when updating this, so we'll probably get a better result because they'll have more options to chose from.

I hope this idea is considered and not just dismissed, because I think it would really help matters.
Post edited by Ultra on

Replies

  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    There are no plans to limit any specific toon in a limited number or selection of game modes.

    That is bad for the game, as it doesnt show respect for investment made by the players.

    They dont need to make changes to Kylo to help give them more time for development.
  • I didn't expect there would be plans for it, that's why I brought it up. And as to your point about it not showing respect for investment, I respectfully disagree. Doing this, as I said, would not affect Kylo in any way outside raids. The investment would remain unchanged there. Within the raids, it wouldn't make him a bad character at all, it would just limit his damage to be more in line of that with other GLs. Is that lessening of value to an extent? Yes, somewhat, but it's far from disrespectful if it's in a good cause. All those positives I mentioned would affect Kylo owners as well as non-Kylo owners. And I maintain, those benefits far exceed a limited diminishment of value.

    It's far from unprecedented for a game company to edit a kit when doing so would have a positive affect on the entire game, and not doing so would have a continuing negative affect. Yes, some will no doubt have a negative initial reaction if my suggestion is implemented, but if it's explained properly and limited in the way I suggest, I think most people will see it as either positive or at least reasonable. Even for those truly unhappy with it, I really don't think it will matter that much to them in the end, where the positives would matter much much more.

    Again, I ask for fair consideration on this, even if some will likely be very tempted towards a snap judgment.
  • What is the effective difference in changing a raid to accommodate a character and changing a character to accomodate a raid though? To a player, no difference at all if the change to the character only affects them in the raid. On the dev side though, I think it’s no great leap of logic, given that they designed Crancor to limit Kylo and failed at doing so, that it’s much more difficult to plan the raid around Kylo than it would be to add a simple clause to his kit that would fix the problem across the board with minimal effort on their part.

    Ask any Kylo owner: assuming this is true (and the recent experience with Crancor says it is), would you be willing to give up your average 27th place Sith raid finishes to get the whole community raids fasters and with less need for reworks? I have faith enough to think most would actually be good enough spots about it to say yes without a second thought. I certainly would.
  • Vendi1983
    4917 posts Member
    edited February 2021
    Why not have the enrage timer engage at a certain % damage rather than after X turns? Then you can prevent phase solos.

    You would have less time to ramp up damage, Kylo can still do decent numbers, no kit changes.
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    What is the effective difference in changing a raid to accommodate a character and changing a character to accomodate a raid though? To a player, no difference at all if the change to the character only affects them in the raid. On the dev side though, I think it’s no great leap of logic, given that they designed Crancor to limit Kylo and failed at doing so, that it’s much more difficult to plan the raid around Kylo than it would be to add a simple clause to his kit that would fix the problem across the board with minimal effort on their part.

    Ask any Kylo owner: assuming this is true (and the recent experience with Crancor says it is), would you be willing to give up your average 27th place Sith raid finishes to get the whole community raids fasters and with less need for reworks? I have faith enough to think most would actually be good enough spots about it to say yes without a second thought. I certainly would.

    Not placing a direct limitation on a single toon is the difference. A change to the raid future proofs it to an issue, without doing anything directly to a single toon.

    That is assuming that doing this changes anything on the dev side, for any reason. Which there is no evidence that it will. The investigation towards changing the raid was already on the table before Kylo came into the situation, so it would have done nothing for this raid.

    There just doesnt seem to be a solid reason or benefit to limit this single toon in any one particular location in game.
  • Gifafi
    5899 posts Member
    just don't go there
    Maybe End Game isn't for you
  • Kyno wrote: »
    There are no plans to limit any specific toon in a limited number or selection of game modes.

    That is bad for the game, as it doesnt show respect for investment made by the players.

    They dont need to make changes to Kylo to help give them more time for development.

    look at thrawns fracture
    it is raid specific
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    Shuster123 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    There are no plans to limit any specific toon in a limited number or selection of game modes.

    That is bad for the game, as it doesnt show respect for investment made by the players.

    They dont need to make changes to Kylo to help give them more time for development.

    look at thrawns fracture
    it is raid specific

    Many characters have raid specific effects for certain debuffs.

    No raid has a specific limitation on any character, that is what I was talking about.
  • Nikoms565
    14242 posts Member
    Shuster123 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    There are no plans to limit any specific toon in a limited number or selection of game modes.

    That is bad for the game, as it doesnt show respect for investment made by the players.

    They dont need to make changes to Kylo to help give them more time for development.

    look at thrawns fracture
    it is raid specific

    How is that relevant? Thrawn's kit has been like that for a very long time and the investment required to obtain Thrawn is vastly different from that of a GL. Many kits were designed with "raid specific modifications" - but that is far different than nerfing one (especially a GL) literally years after the fact.
    In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: TNR Uprising
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
  • Nrm53
    39 posts Member
    I have taken the time to get slkr and he is the only gl I have at the moment... my guild has 3 people that can currently possibly solo the sith raid and only 2 that have actually done it or pretty dang close (myself being 1) one of the main reasons I went for slkr was simply because of how good he is in raids (crancor also which we can't finish) limiting him would put a huge hamper on many mid range guilds like our own... it sounds like what u more want is for cg to hurry up and give a sim to the sith raid like they have said that they would to prevent 50 people from getting random rewards (which I would Def have to agree with)but to take slkr and nerf him is very disrespectful to slkr owners when raids is one of the main reasons people get him in the first place
  • Nrm53 wrote: »
    I have taken the time to get slkr and he is the only gl I have at the moment... my guild has 3 people that can currently possibly solo the sith raid and only 2 that have actually done it or pretty dang close (myself being 1) one of the main reasons I went for slkr was simply because of how good he is in raids (crancor also which we can't finish) limiting him would put a huge hamper on many mid range guilds like our own... it sounds like what u more want is for cg to hurry up and give a sim to the sith raid like they have said that they would to prevent 50 people from getting random rewards (which I would Def have to agree with)but to take slkr and nerf him is very disrespectful to slkr owners when raids is one of the main reasons people get him in the first place

    Look at the date of when this was posted. Don't necro.
    @Ultra or @crzydroid Mind closing this?
This discussion has been closed.