GL Hondo Ohnaka Kit Idea

MegaCrunchi

Hello there fellows,

with still too much time on hand and the influence of someone talking about wanting a GL Jabba the Hutt... I tried myelf on a GL Kit Idea... but not for Jabba cause I simply don't like that slug <.<

But to keep it in the same direction i thought it would be funny to do a Hondo Ohnaka Kit cause he could the counterpart to Jabba

Galactic Legend Hondo Ohnaka

UNIT NAME: Hondo Ohnaka
ALIGNMENT: Light
CATEGORIES: Light Side, Supporter, Leader, Galactic Legend, Scoundrel, Smuggler
Relic Amplifier: Pilf Mukmuk
Basic: SMOOTH TALK
FINAL TEXT: (ZETA) Inflict target enemy with Confuse for 3 turns (max 3 stacks, can't be evaded or copied), call a random Light Side Smuggler ally to assist and gain 3% Turn Meter for every enemy with at least 1 stack of Confuse. If target already was Confused, duration ist reset to 3 turns.
Confuse: Detrimental effects build based on the cumulative number of stacks.
1: Cannot gain buffs
2: Cannot counter, assist, gain bonus Turn Meter (Raid Bosses: -30% Counter Chance)
3: When this character uses their Basic ability, increase their cooldowns by 1, which can't be resisted (Raid Bosses: -50% Defense, doesn't stack with Defense Down)
Gain 3% Ultimate Charge for each stack of Confuse on target enemy.[/color]
Special 1: Go get them! (Cooldown 2)
FINAL TEXT: (ZETA) Deal Physical Damage to target enemy twice, call all Smuggler allies to assist and stun target enemy for 1 turn which can't be resisted or dispelled. Hondo gains 15% Ultimate Charge, doubled if an enemy was defeated this round.
Special 2: This effort is no longer profitable (Cooldown 5)
FINAL TEXT: (ZETA) Dispell all debuffs from all allies. Then target ally recovers 100% Health and Protection, looses all stacks of Loot and gains the unique buff Wealth which can't be prevented, copied or removed.
Wealth: Prevents this unit from gainig stacks of Loot and gains benefitial effects based on the removed stacks of Loot:
< 25: + 15% Mastery, + 10 Speed
< 50: + 25% Mastery, + 20 Speed
< 75: + 35% Mastery, + 30 Speed
100: + 50% Mastery, + 50 Speed
Gain 1% Ultimate Charge for each stack of Loot that was removed.
Leader: I smell profit
FINAL TEXT: (ZETA) All Light Side Scoundrel allies have +30% Mastery +25 Speed and +20% Max Health. At the start of the battle, Smuggler allies gain Stealth for 2 turns which can't be prevented or removed.
At the start of battle if all allies are Light Side Scoundrels, all allies gain 1 stack of Loot (stacking, max 100) every time an ally uses a Basic ability.
Loot: +0,5% Mastery and +1% Max Health
Unique 1: The infamous Outlaw
FINAL TEXT: (ZETA) Hondo Ohnaka gains + 20% Potency for each Smuggler ally and is called to assist whenever an ally uses a Special ability. Hondo gains Foresight for 1 turn when he evades or attacks out of turn.
The first time Hondo falls below 50% Health, he recovers 50% Health, gains Stealth for 2 turns and takes an immediate bonus turn.
Unique 2: Galactic Legend
FINAL TEXT: (ZETA) This unit takes reduced damage from percent Health damage effects and massive damage effects. They take massive damage from destroy effects (excludes raid bosses) and are immune to stun effects.
This unit has +10% Max Health and Max Protection per Relic Amplifier level, and damage they receive is decreased by 30%.
Ultimate: We are Pirates!
FINAL TEXT: Requires 100% Ultimate Charge to activate.
Ultimate Charge: Hondo Ohnaka gains Ultimate Charge when he uses his abilities.
Revive all Light Side allies at 100% Health and Protection. All allies dispell all debuffs from themselves, recover 50% Health and Protection and gain buffs based on their role which can't be prevented or removed:
Tanks gain Critical Hit Immunity, Defense Up, Retribution, Taunt for 3 Turns
Attackers gain Advantage, Offense Up, Health Steal Up, Critical Damage Up for 3 turns
Supporters and Healers gain Speed Up, Health Up, Tenacity Up, Stealth for 3 turns
Hondo Ohnaka gains the Party! status effect for 4 turns.
Party!: Can't gain Ultimate Charge.

I'm gratefull for every comment ^^

YodasAdoy

This seems like quite a powerful kit. I was going to say something about using confusion again but then I remembered Tech. I have noticed that the transition between profit and wealth is not quite linear, and that the only way to get profit is by all allies being LS scoundrels, the latter not quite working synergising entirely with the ultimate, the reviving all light side allies doesn't click with the scoundrel-exclusive leader ability. For the first special, the one turn stun seems like a poor alternative to the mass assist (which again, if you are wanting to be LS Scoundrel, could just call them instead of all allies). What could be done is either to change it all to LS scoundrel, or you could add penalties for non LS scoundrels.
Overall, it's a good kit - well done

Xcien

Sebek wrote: »

How would undispellable Advantage work?

I assume 100% Critical Hits until the buff wears off.

MegaCrunchi

Well, while undispelledable doesn't mean he can't loose it after a critical hit but only that he can't loose it trough a dispell from another unit, it was meant to be until the buff wears out ^^"

StealthGOBLIN32

Hondo doesn't actually deal damage himself on his basic, he just calls an assist. That could be an issue if he is the only one remaining (GLs often are).
Also, if you have 90 stacks of profit, and you gain wealth, you loose mastery. Profit in general may be a bit too powerful.
He also gains 100% ultimate charge if someone has 100 stacks of profit, which leads to a mass revive the next turn. When someone counters, the use a basic ability. If Nest was in the team, she could stack Profit quite quickly. Also, reviving her would be a bit too powerful if it could be done so easily.

Ichiraikou

I'm seeing this one just now. I'm kinda pressed for time at the moment, so I'll leave a more in-dept review for later when I have the time. One thing I'd want to say right now that I haven't seen anyone else talk about is that "Profit" already exists in the game. It's used by Nute Gunray and grants +10% Crit Chance and Crit Damage per stack (with 5 stacks max).

MegaCrunchi

Ichiraikou wrote: »

I'm seeing this one just now. I'm kinda pressed for time at the moment, so I'll leave a more in-dept review for later when I have the time. One thing I'd want to say right now that I haven't seen anyone else talk about is that "Profit" already exists in the game. It's used by Nute Gunray and grants +10% Crit Chance and Crit Damage per stack (with 5 stacks max).

Uff kinda missed out on this :x
Guess I should think of another name ^^"

MegaCrunchi

StealthGOBLIN32 wrote: »

Hondo doesn't actually deal damage himself on his basic, he just calls an assist. That could be an issue if he is the only one remaining (GLs often are).
Also, if you have 90 stacks of profit, and you gain wealth, you loose mastery. Profit in general may be a bit too powerful.
He also gains 100% ultimate charge if someone has 100 stacks of profit, which leads to a mass revive the next turn. When someone counters, the use a basic ability. If Nest was in the team, she could stack Profit quite quickly. Also, reviving her would be a bit too powerful if it could be done so easily.

Well If you think reviving Nest is a too powerful ability... I guess Vandor Chewbacca is way too op too? Cause he can basically revive every turn...
And I think you might underestimate MY POWER! ... ahm... I meant how slow the stacks of Profit are built up... cause even if Nest counters a lot... it will still take quiet some time before she reaches 100 Stacks ^^"

Also that you loose mastery if you don't get the 100 stacks isintended this way because the full heal + the 100 stacks of profit would be too powerful in my opinion ^^"
Altough I just realized that I forgot to add the part that Wealth prevents you from getting Profit ._.

Concerning the issue of his basic dealing no dmg... I simply don't want him to be less effective if he's alone... and it's not like he can't do damage if he's alone since he still has his first Special.

Xcien

MegaCrunchi wrote: »

StealthGOBLIN32 wrote: »

Hondo doesn't actually deal damage himself on his basic, he just calls an assist. That could be an issue if he is the only one remaining (GLs often are).
Also, if you have 90 stacks of profit, and you gain wealth, you loose mastery. Profit in general may be a bit too powerful.
He also gains 100% ultimate charge if someone has 100 stacks of profit, which leads to a mass revive the next turn. When someone counters, the use a basic ability. If Nest was in the team, she could stack Profit quite quickly. Also, reviving her would be a bit too powerful if it could be done so easily.

Well If you think reviving Nest is a too powerful ability... I guess Vandor Chewbacca is way too op too? Cause he can basically revive every turn...
And I think you might underestimate MY POWER! ... ahm... I meant how slow the stacks of Profit are built up... cause even if Nest counters a lot... it will still take quiet some time before she reaches 100 Stacks ^^"

Also that you loose mastery if you don't get the 100 stacks isintended this way because the full heal + the 100 stacks of profit would be too powerful in my opinion ^^"
Altough I just realized that I forgot to add the part that Wealth prevents you from getting Profit ._.

Concerning the issue of his basic dealing no dmg... I simply don't want him to be less effective if he's alone... and it's not like he can't do damage if he's alone since he still has his first Special.

So what’s he supposed to do if he’s already used the first special?

MegaCrunchi

Xcien wrote: »

MegaCrunchi wrote: »

StealthGOBLIN32 wrote: »

Hondo doesn't actually deal damage himself on his basic, he just calls an assist. That could be an issue if he is the only one remaining (GLs often are).
Also, if you have 90 stacks of profit, and you gain wealth, you loose mastery. Profit in general may be a bit too powerful.
He also gains 100% ultimate charge if someone has 100 stacks of profit, which leads to a mass revive the next turn. When someone counters, the use a basic ability. If Nest was in the team, she could stack Profit quite quickly. Also, reviving her would be a bit too powerful if it could be done so easily.

Well If you think reviving Nest is a too powerful ability... I guess Vandor Chewbacca is way too op too? Cause he can basically revive every turn...
And I think you might underestimate MY POWER! ... ahm... I meant how slow the stacks of Profit are built up... cause even if Nest counters a lot... it will still take quiet some time before she reaches 100 Stacks ^^"

Also that you loose mastery if you don't get the 100 stacks isintended this way because the full heal + the 100 stacks of profit would be too powerful in my opinion ^^"
Altough I just realized that I forgot to add the part that Wealth prevents you from getting Profit ._.

Concerning the issue of his basic dealing no dmg... I simply don't want him to be less effective if he's alone... and it's not like he can't do damage if he's alone since he still has his first Special.

So what’s he supposed to do if he’s already used the first special?

When he already used it he needs to use his basic to stack up his ultimate charge and Turn Meter so he gets his turn faster til he gets his seconds special again ^^
And let's not forget that Galactic Legends should be beatable... there no reason why he should be a extremly strong supporter AND be able to 1 vs 5 teams...

Ichiraikou

Okay, I've taken a good look at this kit. It has quite a few problems to be honest. For starters his first special is pretty weak and to situational to be honest. I mean, the stun is just an all round weaker version of SLKR's first special and the rest of the ability isn't much better. His second specials is practically useless if he isn't the leader due to nobody being able to gain stacks of loot, and borderline broken when he is the leader due to the massive amount of Ultimate Charge it can generate.
The leader is pretty weak to be honest, and also makes no sense. It massively increases max health trough 2 different ways, yet Max Health isn't that important in the kit at all. It seems to treat health and protection pretty equal everywhere else in the kit, so it just makes the team weaker to Health Percentage damage effects to be honest. It just doesn't seem logical other than making the second special work. The foresight loop he has in his unique is also pretty broken to be honest and the offence boost seems out of place since he only has 1 ability with which he deals direct damage. Overall an ability that I don't think fits him all that well. Finally the ultimate, which is far too weak for an ultimate if you ask me. Especially with Party! in there. It's already weaker than any ultimate we currently have in the game without that, so that's just the nail in the coffin to be honest.
This led me to try out my own version of him, based on your version. One thing I will say is that instead of "light side Scoundrel" I focused on the other tag of his: "Smuggler". Since that is a pretty underutilized faction in the game to be honest (and all of them are Light Side, so that helps with typing and keeping my file organized). But you could just replace all "smuggler" mentions with Light Side Scoundrel if you want. I also used the Profit we have in the game right now. It's only used by 1 character anyway and the max stacks makes it easier to balance for me. But it's a rough sketch either way. So it might still be a tad too powerful, but I'd like to share it with you anyway. So here it is:

Hondo Ohnaka (my version):

Galactic Legend, Light Side, Support (STR), Leader, Scoundrel, Smuggler

Basic: Smooth Talk
FINAL TEXT: (ZETA) Hondo inflicts the unique debuff Confuse for 3 turns (max 3 stacks, can’t be evaded or copied). If target is already Confused, duration of their stacks resets to 3 turns. Then Hondo gains 3% Ultimate Charge for each stack of Confuse on the target, 3% Turn Meter for each Confused enemy, and calls a random other Smuggler ally to assist.
Confuse: Detrimental effects build based on the cumulative number of stacks.

1. Cannot gain buffs
2. Cannot counter, assist, or gain bonus turn meter (Raid Bosses: -30% Counter Chance)
3. When this character uses their basic ability, increase their cooldowns by 1, which can’t be resisted (Rai Bosses: -50% Defense, doesn’t stack with Defense Down)

Special 1: Go Get Them! (Cooldown: 2)
FINAL TEXT: (ZETA) All Smuggler allies gain a stack of Profit and Hondo gains 10% Ultimate Charge. Then deal Physical damage to target enemy and call all other Smuggler allies to assist. If the target is defeated during this turn, or if the target is Toppled, all Smuggler allies gain an additional stack of Profit and Hondo gains an additional 10% Ultimate Charge.
Profit: +10% Critical Chance and Critical Damage per stack (max 5 stacks).

Special 2: This Effort Is No Longer Profitable (Cooldown: 5)
FINAL TEXT: (ZETA) Dispel all debuffs from all Light Side allies, equalize their Health and Protection, and recover 30% of their Health and Protection.
Remove all stacks of Profit from all Smuggler allies. For each stack of Profit removed from themselves, Smuggler allies gain +10% Mastery and +5 Speed (stacking) until the end of the encounter.
Hondo gains 1% Ultimate Charge for each stack of Profit removed.
This ability starts on cooldown.

Leader: I Smell Profit
FINAL TEXT: (ZETA) All enemies have -30 Speed, -30% Critical Avoidance, and -30% Tenacity. While Hondo Ohnaka is active, enemies can’t gain Critical Hit Immunity or Tenacity Up.
All Smuggler allies have +30% Mastery, +30% Max Health, and +30% Max Protection. Whenever a Smuggler allies loses Profit, they gain +10% Offence (stacking) until the end of the encounter for each stack of Profit Lost. Whenever a Smuggler ally inflicts a debuff, they also deal 6% Max Health damage to that enemy, which can’t be evaded. At the start of each encounter, all Smuggler allies gain 1 Stack of Profit and Foresight for 2 turns.

Unique 1: Infamous Outlaw
FINAL TEXT: (ZETA) Hondo Ohnaka ignores Taunt during his turn and has +30% Evasion and +30% Critical Avoidance. At the start of battle, Hondo Ohnaka gains +10% Potency and +10% Tenacity for each active Smuggler ally. Whenever another Smuggler ally uses a Special ability, Hondo assist them.
The first time Hondo falls below 40% Health, he dispels all debuffs from himself, recovers 60% Health and Protection, gains Stealth for 3 turns, and gains a bonus turn.

Unique 2: Galactic Legend
FINAL TEXT: (ZETA) This unit takes reduced damage from percentage Health damage effects and massive damage effects. They take massive damage from destroy effects (excludes raid bosses) and are immune to stun effects.
This unit has +10% Max Health and Max Protection per Relic Amplifier level, and damage they receive is decreased by 30%.

Ultimate: We Are Pirates!
FINAL TEXT: Requires 100% Ultimate Charge to activate.
Ultimate Charge: Hondo Ohnaka gains Ultimate Charge whenever he uses his abilities.
Dispel all debuffs from all Light Side allies and recover 60% of their Health and Protection. Revive all defeated Light Side allies at 60% Health and Protection. This revive can’t be Prevented. Then grant all Smuggler allies 2 stacks of Profit and reduce their cooldowns by 1.
Dispel all buffs from all enemies, reduce their Mastery by 30% (Stacking) until the end of battle, and inflict Blind on them until the next time they miss an attack, which can’t be Copied or Dispelled. This attack can’t be evaded or resisted.

So, what do you think? Hope this was interesting, as well as helpful for you.

MegaCrunchi

While I do like some of the changes you made, like the Smuggler synergy... I feel like the 2nd Special got significantly worse while the Ultimate got absolutely broken ^^"...
And yeah you got a point.... the offense buff on his Unique feels a bit misplaced... but was intended to make him deal more damage so his missing damage on the basic wouldn't be that bad.
In my version, 'Party!' is intended to keep him from the not liely to happen BUT possible case on gainig his Ultimate way too fast after the first use.
Reducing the enemy teams Mastery by 50% every time the Ult is used seems incredibly strong and combined with a AOE confuse is way to strong in my opinion... even for an Ultimate ability ^^"
And I don't think the argument about the huge amount of Ultimate Charge he can generate with his 2nd Special isn't an argument at all... Yes he can gain 100% Ultimate Charge... but only if an ally has 100 Stacks and they do need quiet some time to build up...
Max Health in his Leader ability is only for the Team to have some sustainability cause the most Light Side Scoundrels / Smugglers simply are squishy as hell.
Yes he is pretty useless when he's not in the Leader slot... but the whole Kit was designed with him in the Leader slot in mind ^^"
Please don't think that I only want to justify my Kit Idea... I really aprecciate your critic ^^
Made some changes - marked in green

Ichiraikou

@MegaCrunchi I'm actually very curious right now due to your response. Cause there are a few things in there that I just don't make sense to me. Like at all.
But first the thing I agree with. Yeah, after having been away from the kit for a while, I agree that I went overboard with the ultimate. I'll remove the confuse, reduce the stacks of Profit from 3 to 2, and reduce allied cooldowns by 1 instead of resetting them. I think that's more balanced than what I currently have. I could also add party! to him for 1 turn to prevent it from going too fast, but it needs to do more than just prevent Ultimate charge in that case.

One more thing I'd like to mention before I get into the things I don't get is the Max Health from his leadership ability. Because your haven't answered my question. I asked why his leadership ability only adds Max Health to allies when the rest of the kit works with both Health and Protection. It's not like Rey or Kenobi, who work with Bonus Protection based on Max Health. So why only Max Health and not (also) Max protection? I mean, I have +30% of both in my version.

But now onto the things that don't make sense to me. I'd like to start with his leader position. You said yourself:

MegaCrunchi wrote: »

Yes he is pretty useless when he's not in the Leader slot... but the whole Kit was designed with him in the Leader slot in mind ^^"

Name 1 GL that is "pretty useless" while they are not in the leader slot. There isn't one. You yourself highlighted why his old leader was a problem. Cause there is a big difference between designing with the leader slot in mind and restricting them to the leader slot only. So I don't get how my argument for why it can't work that way, is your argument for why it can.

Next the 100% Ultimate charge and the Loot stacks. You seem to have the idea that those can't stack all that fast. Where you got that idea from when Smugglers are very counter attack heavy, have lots of assists, and your own GL assists when an ally uses a special which also causes them to call another assist, and can call all other allies to assist with his first special, is a complete mystery for me. Seriously those will stack like wildfire. I'm fairly certain that if you put your second specials on cooldown at the start of battle, all allies will have 100 stacks before its off cooldown. So your version practically guarantees it's max rewards and max ultimate charge whenever it's used, with the only condition that he needs to be the leader (adding to the previous point as well). So I don't get how this isn't an argument for why this ability grants too much Ultimate charge.

But the thing that confuses me the most is that apparently the second specials is significantly worse. I can't imagine a single scenario in which my version performs worse than yours. It could just be me, but I really can't see one. Your version can heal 1 ally and grant them +50% Mastery and +50 Speed once. But since the 2 events can't be used separately, anytime an ally is in dire need of healing it becomes a very difficult choice. My version can heal the entire team, and grant all allies up to +50% Mastery and +15 Speed every time it is used. Which amount to +50% mastery and 15 Speed in total if all allies have 1 stack, and +250% Master and +75 Speed in total if all allies have max stacks. Yes it is more difficult in my version to achieve this. But that's more of a testament to the brokenness I pointed out in the previous point than mine being worse. Not to mention that if he is the leader, allies also gain Turn Meter and stacking Offence when this ability is used. Again, it could be me, but I just can't see what you mean by it being worse.

I have to say, since most of the arguments don't really seem to make sense to me, it does feel like you are trying to justify your kit. Thou again, that might just be me not being able to see your point. Either way, some extra explanation from you would be much appreciated. I also would like to apologize if I come over a bit rude or aggressive in this. I guess I was a bit hurt by it and I'm not entirely sure about everything to be honest. So just to be sure, I'm adding this.

P.s. I get that the offence in his unique was meant to make him deal more damage. That's the point of Offence. I just didn't think it should have been in his unique and only for him. He is ultimately a Support with a single damage dealing ability (where he isn't even the only source of damage). This is why I added the stacking offence to his lead for all Smuggler allies (which obviously includes him). I also added the Max Health damage when inflicting a debuff to address the "Basic doesn't deal damage" point from @Xcien . Cause if he is the leader, it technically can inflict damage now (since it inflicts a debuff). Thou it isn't necessary for the kit to do so, and it still works just fine if he is not the leader. Just something I wanted to point out to you.

MegaCrunchi

So first of all, I apologize cause I actually meant the first Special that got worse (in my opinion) and not the second... I'm sorry for the confusion ._.
While I said the he get's 'pretty useless' I think I might have exxegerated a bit, cause yeah he doesn't have the Loot stacks without his ult, but he still has a full heal + AOE cleanse... Tough I think the problem can be easily fixed by reducing the Cooldown and making it an AOE heal if he's not in the Leader slot.
I still don't think that Loot stacks up as fast as you think but I guess that's something that would need to be tested ^^"
I also get now what you meant with the Health in the Leader ability and I agree, I guess I could add the Protection too, but maybe the allies might get too durable (also something that would need to be tested) xD

Anyway thats it for now cause actually I'm running out of time right now ^^