Hynsey chat with Crumb 7/28/22

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  • Activate omicrons all of them in squad arena! Let us test stuff pls! There is no reason to add datacrons and block omicrons? It’s squad arena and there are no crystals tied there anymore. Throw us a bone here, for everyone who stuck around after the datacron exodus!
  • Crumbs feedback on the impact for CG on the reception of datacron is telling me that they’ll do a major overhaul of them or scrap them entirely. They know they fudged it big time and the “good” thing about them is that they are temporary in nature so it’s possible to phase out without having to refund any money.

    I'm honestly curious to know what in that interview led you to either of these conclusions. It was clear to me that Crumb at least realized that the reception has been mostly negative - but if anything, what I heard was, "be specific about what exactly you don't like so that your opinion doesn't get ignored"

    I didn't get the impression at all that they were anywhere near the thought of tossing out so many hours of development time. The spending player base would have to be literally shriveling on the vine for them to scrap this effort. And before anyone says it, anecdotes about players leaving is not data - only CG knows what's going on there.
  • Crumbs feedback on the impact for CG on the reception of datacron is telling me that they’ll do a major overhaul of them or scrap them entirely. They know they fudged it big time and the “good” thing about them is that they are temporary in nature so it’s possible to phase out without having to refund any money.

    I'm honestly curious to know what in that interview led you to either of these conclusions. It was clear to me that Crumb at least realized that the reception has been mostly negative - but if anything, what I heard was, "be specific about what exactly you don't like so that your opinion doesn't get ignored"

    I didn't get the impression at all that they were anywhere near the thought of tossing out so many hours of development time. The spending player base would have to be literally shriveling on the vine for them to scrap this effort. And before anyone says it, anecdotes about players leaving is not data - only CG knows what's going on there.

    He said this was up for discussion internally and monitored more than anything before and he also said they could change datacrons completely. This tells me that this is not accepted by the players the way CG thought it would. First step of course is to change datacrons radically to get it more accepted but if this does not get the desired outcome it will be scrapped. Combine this with the infinite spamming of no limit datacron packs ingame is telling us that CG is desperate to push this out on the whales that are biting. CG profitability has been plummeting lately and their management is probably under scrutiny from EA to turn those numbers up and datacrons was supposed to be the next cash cow but the whales aren’t spending as willingly anymore.
  • MaruMaru
    2733 posts Member
    Crumbs feedback on the impact for CG on the reception of datacron is telling me that they’ll do a major overhaul of them or scrap them entirely. They know they fudged it big time and the “good” thing about them is that they are temporary in nature so it’s possible to phase out without having to refund any money.

    I'm honestly curious to know what in that interview led you to either of these conclusions. It was clear to me that Crumb at least realized that the reception has been mostly negative - but if anything, what I heard was, "be specific about what exactly you don't like so that your opinion doesn't get ignored"

    I didn't get the impression at all that they were anywhere near the thought of tossing out so many hours of development time. The spending player base would have to be literally shriveling on the vine for them to scrap this effort. And before anyone says it, anecdotes about players leaving is not data - only CG knows what's going on there.

    He said this was up for discussion internally and monitored more than anything before and he also said they could change datacrons completely. This tells me that this is not accepted by the players the way CG thought it would. First step of course is to change datacrons radically to get it more accepted but if this does not get the desired outcome it will be scrapped. Combine this with the infinite spamming of no limit datacron packs ingame is telling us that CG is desperate to push this out on the whales that are biting. CG profitability has been plummeting lately and their management is probably under scrutiny from EA to turn those numbers up and datacrons was supposed to be the next cash cow but the whales aren’t spending as willingly anymore.

    I barged into the datacron part of that chatter, maybe he said more elsewhere. Though at no point I got the impression that it can possibly be scrapped; just that it will be changed until they find a sweet spot.

    About the "give us something actionable instead of saying we don't like it" sentiment he kept repeating, I think we gave them the first such consensus around excluding GLs already.
  • Of course he can’t say right out that they will scrap it if the players just hold out long enough. That would probably be grounds for termination. But listening to him not really pushing any of the normal CG corporate speak of them seeing great engagement etc is telling us this is not at all panning out the way they calculated. And we’ve seen that before in two instances where CG later scrapped the content; the tournaments and the temporary character buffs in TW. Those lead to an outrage overall but more importantly CG saw it didn’t go down well with the whales. Of course it’s a numbers game on how much more they get from a whale engaging in datacrons vs how much they lose out in total spend from a whale leaving because of datacrons. Only CG knows exactly but in Crumbs words they are monitoring this more closely than any feature before. Anyone can interpret that how they like.
  • I hope this goes down like mods, when they originally rolled out. I wasn't here yet, but from what I've heard, they were too OP/transformative, and CG had to do a complete overhaul.

    Mods are still with us, of course, but they are very different from their original release.
  • Thoeb wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    Thoeb wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    So crumb said that nothing is free in development so integrating changes to squad arena to allow omicrons to be activated and no crystal refreshes or cooldowns isn’t likely is pathetic.

    lol

    I’m failing to see what’s funny. CG is refusing to do basic QoL things that could be slam dunks for them PR wise and they won’t do it.

    Players are begging for something to do in this game and are begging for a sandbox mode. Guess what? They have it in game and only need to make some small adjustments. Activate omicrons in squad arena, eliminate the limit on battles per day and get rid of the crystal refresh cost. Boom; a make shift sandbox mode that allows people to actually test things out properly with minimal effort; but just like you, CG simply said “lol” at such an easy idea.

    So, I guess it would probably be super easy to just flip some switches and make it so that we could have more battles per day. But would you make TW omi's active? Or would you do GAC omi's active? Both? Would you add sliders or switches to turn specific ones on or off? As you progress further into thinking about how it would work, you quickly realize it's not as simple as "just turn on omi's in squad arena, CG! What are you even doing?"

    I think if they want the laziest and easiest approach they can enable both TW/GAC omicrons (and TB too i guess) at once, but its not that difficult for CG to do so

    And then we're right back to where testing isn't really worthwhile since putting both TW and GAC omi's into the mix ruins the data.
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Thoeb wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    So crumb said that nothing is free in development so integrating changes to squad arena to allow omicrons to be activated and no crystal refreshes or cooldowns isn’t likely is pathetic.

    lol

    I’m failing to see what’s funny. CG is refusing to do basic QoL things that could be slam dunks for them PR wise and they won’t do it.

    Players are begging for something to do in this game and are begging for a sandbox mode. Guess what? They have it in game and only need to make some small adjustments. Activate omicrons in squad arena, eliminate the limit on battles per day and get rid of the crystal refresh cost. Boom; a make shift sandbox mode that allows people to actually test things out properly with minimal effort; but just like you, CG simply said “lol” at such an easy idea.

    So, I guess it would probably be super easy to just flip some switches and make it so that we could have more battles per day. But would you make TW omi's active? Or would you do GAC omi's active? Both? Would you add sliders or switches to turn specific ones on or off? As you progress further into thinking about how it would work, you quickly realize it's not as simple as "just turn on omi's in squad arena, CG! What are you even doing?"

    You literally just have all omicrons active in Squad Arena. They keep their niches for each game mode but all omicrons would work in SA. So the next omicron could read “In Territory Battles and Squad Arena” or “In Grand Arenas and Squad Arena”.

    That way people can test things out actually.

    As others have pointed out, this doesn't really work that well because you'd be going against matchups that aren't possible in either GAC or TW (Starkiller team with MJ and Juhani is the easiest example). All of those omi's combined ruins any testing for both TW and GAC.

    I get what you're saying, but both Juhani and MJ's omicrons are for TW. The issue is with SK's omicrons being GAC.
  • MaruMaru
    2733 posts Member
    Of course he can’t say right out that they will scrap it if the players just hold out long enough. That would probably be grounds for termination. But listening to him not really pushing any of the normal CG corporate speak of them seeing great engagement etc is telling us this is not at all panning out the way they calculated. And we’ve seen that before in two instances where CG later scrapped the content; the tournaments and the temporary character buffs in TW. Those lead to an outrage overall but more importantly CG saw it didn’t go down well with the whales. Of course it’s a numbers game on how much more they get from a whale engaging in datacrons vs how much they lose out in total spend from a whale leaving because of datacrons. Only CG knows exactly but in Crumbs words they are monitoring this more closely than any feature before. Anyone can interpret that how they like.

    I would be a happy camper if it gets scrapped. But at the very least it needs to get dialed down+gls excluded.
  • BobaFettish86
    356 posts Member
    edited August 2
    I know Ultra thinks I contribute nothing to discussions, but here we go anyway...

    Gear changes WILL happen. Not to the extent they originally suggested, but they'll throw us a bit of goodwill when they announce Relic 10 and some crystal options for Relic 9 mats so more people can get Profundity and Jabba (bound to be at least 2 R9s for him).

    Datacrons won't go away. My only hope is they don't do more of Month 2 where not one DS team benefits from them besides a stat boost. Month 1 was bad enough with only Inquisitors so I'm hoping they balance it more for LS AND DS teams in future updates.

    Salacious B. Crumb will likely happen, but given his size in comparison to Jabba, it would be a nightmare if you put him in the wrong slot. My guess is he will be tied to one of Jabba's abilities like Grogu with Beskar Mando. I will be bitterly disappointed if Jabba's ultimate is anything other than summoning a Rancor to devour the opposition.

    I would prefer Omicrons not being tied to a specific game mode, but it's fine as long as the character still has value outside of that mode. Fortunately Scion Boba can solo some poorer teams in GAC but he's not fantastic. He does work well with Embo lead and Fennec to complete HSTR p4 though. That being said, he could probably use a little buff in GAC to keep him on par with other conquest toons.
  • wharp
    108 posts Member
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    wharp wrote: »
    Unfortunately, the player is not the client, it is a product consumed by companies (Disney / EA / CG) ! Not a charity association !
    The worse, CG is listening to us BUT , they have to answer to EA/Disney, so if you want to change things, you have to speak to the right person/company since EA/Disney ONLY lookup at numbers/datas ...

    This is the weirdest logic I've heard. Ofc players are clients. The higher-ups are the bosses. Were they the ones that paid 1b$+ for this product?

    It seems my previous answer has hurted some people, so I will explain gently ...

    Money go to EA (not CG, since it is owned by EA), they have the final words and people always blame CG for everything, monetization should be addressed to EA and not CG, complaining about monetization on this forum is useless like every post about bugs (you might want to read about star wars battlefront 2 loot box controversy)

    When I said player are not the clients, companies like EA mostly analyse data, if there is enough incomes, they will most likely to ignore complaints so, you are no longer a client in their minds, but only a product to be analyzed then consumed (yeah milking your money), and if you never gave them money, you are just a freeloader :smile:

  • wharp wrote: »

    Money go to EA (not CG, since it is owned by EA)

    So... "EA Capital Games" does not produce revenue as a company ? It's a compagny that EA created/bought to generate deficit for tax purposes ?

  • wharp wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    wharp wrote: »
    Unfortunately, the player is not the client, it is a product consumed by companies (Disney / EA / CG) ! Not a charity association !
    The worse, CG is listening to us BUT , they have to answer to EA/Disney, so if you want to change things, you have to speak to the right person/company since EA/Disney ONLY lookup at numbers/datas ...

    This is the weirdest logic I've heard. Ofc players are clients. The higher-ups are the bosses. Were they the ones that paid 1b$+ for this product?

    It seems my previous answer has hurted some people, so I will explain gently ...

    Money go to EA (not CG, since it is owned by EA), they have the final words and people always blame CG for everything, monetization should be addressed to EA and not CG, complaining about monetization on this forum is useless like every post about bugs (you might want to read about star wars battlefront 2 loot box controversy)

    When I said player are not the clients, companies like EA mostly analyse data, if there is enough incomes, they will most likely to ignore complaints so, you are no longer a client in their minds, but only a product to be analyzed then consumed (yeah milking your money), and if you never gave them money, you are just a freeloader :smile:

    I'm not sure people really make that much of a distinction between CG and EA. A criticism of CG is also a criticism of EA. Again, I think most people assume EA call the shots on how the game is run.
    So your assertion that EA are the clients, rather than the players seems a bit leftfield.
  • wharp
    108 posts Member
    Starslayer wrote: »
    wharp wrote: »

    Money go to EA (not CG, since it is owned by EA)

    So... "EA Capital Games" does not produce revenue as a company ? It's a compagny that EA created/bought to generate deficit for tax purposes ?

    I'm not an expert, but when you have a 1M$ / month , I would assume the game would be better, but yeah, a part of the money goes to CG, I suppose most of the cash goes to EA/Disney.
  • wharp
    108 posts Member
    AlexanderG wrote: »
    wharp wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    wharp wrote: »
    Unfortunately, the player is not the client, it is a product consumed by companies (Disney / EA / CG) ! Not a charity association !
    The worse, CG is listening to us BUT , they have to answer to EA/Disney, so if you want to change things, you have to speak to the right person/company since EA/Disney ONLY lookup at numbers/datas ...

    This is the weirdest logic I've heard. Ofc players are clients. The higher-ups are the bosses. Were they the ones that paid 1b$+ for this product?

    It seems my previous answer has hurted some people, so I will explain gently ...

    Money go to EA (not CG, since it is owned by EA), they have the final words and people always blame CG for everything, monetization should be addressed to EA and not CG, complaining about monetization on this forum is useless like every post about bugs (you might want to read about star wars battlefront 2 loot box controversy)

    When I said player are not the clients, companies like EA mostly analyse data, if there is enough incomes, they will most likely to ignore complaints so, you are no longer a client in their minds, but only a product to be analyzed then consumed (yeah milking your money), and if you never gave them money, you are just a freeloader :smile:

    I'm not sure people really make that much of a distinction between CG and EA. A criticism of CG is also a criticism of EA. Again, I think most people assume EA call the shots on how the game is run.
    So your assertion that EA are the clients, rather than the players seems a bit leftfield.

    I'm just saying EA have the final word, but IMO, the monetization is a lot like the lootbox controversy in SWBF2, even worse I would say.

    I didn't said EA is a client, I am saying that "us", players are not client in EA minds, just datas, numbers .... Hope someone has the incomes from SWGOH from Google/Apple store

  • MaruMaru wrote: »
    About the "give us something actionable instead of saying we don't like it" sentiment he kept repeating, I think we gave them the first such consensus around excluding GLs already.
    That's not consensus at all.

  • MaruMaru
    2733 posts Member
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    About the "give us something actionable instead of saying we don't like it" sentiment he kept repeating, I think we gave them the first such consensus around excluding GLs already.
    That's not consensus at all.

    This is the main thing most agrees with. No, I don't have stats. Just reading the forums and talking around the community.
  • I’ve seen many unpleasant trolls on these forums, but someone who considers saying these things…
    If you can’t figure out GAC omis in between TWs, you should probably just quit the game mode altogether out of embarrassment.
    Sounds like you should scout more, or maybe save safer squads for offense. Seems like it would be nice if you could use other tools like swgoh.gg counters or look up videos rather than needing to test stuff on the fly for all possible scenarios. Oh wait, you can do all those things. Maybe quitting the game mode is in your best interest after all.
    Lastly, I don’t see you giving a better suggestion. By all means, present something constructive, instead of thinking your Kyber 2 GAC skillz mean much of anything.
    Are all justified, appropriate responses to someone who says this:
    “So in your scenario, every other week I can't do testing for the events that happen far more often”
    Is on the fast track to living under a bridge.

    You might consider this as baiting, but here goes…
    Also, TW > GAC in game importance post-DCs. If CG won’t give a true sandbox mode, then squad arena should give representation to both TW and GAC, probably leaning more to TW.
    I’m intrigued as to your reasoning for saying TW is more important than GAC, and that any system that allows us to test omicrons should lean towards TW.

    Why do you think this?

    That’s simple. You’re always going to settle into a 50% win rate in GAC, it’s basically a fixed crystal income assuming you participate. Investing all your omis into GAC ones will let you punch up a bit, maybe even up a league, but it all reverts back to 50% eventually.

    In TW, you can work with your guild to post 75%+ win rates consistently. That 25% additional expected outcome will translate into more gear, more R9 mats, and most importantly, more DC mats. We all know DCs have a greater impact that modding these days, right? That’s what all the complaining boils down to. So more engagement with TW (particularly with omis and presumably TW testing) will lead to better DCs and better DCs will increase performance in TW and GAC.

    That is why TW > GAC.

    Except TW matchmaking is far worse than GAC. In GAC, GP mismatches happen, but they're not exactly mismatches since low ranked people that are much higher in GP either don't play, or are terrible at GAC and hence are so low in rank, so that both have a somewhat equal chance at winning. But in TW your omicrons won't do anything if the enemy guild is 50-70M above yours. It's not like they won't participate like in GAC. Now tell me how "equal" the chances are to win when both guilds signed up with 50/50 but one has 70M more GP. You can have all the omicrons you want and will still get stomped 99% of the time. Just like when you get matched with a far lower guild, where you won't even need omicrons to crush them. The TW winner is decided by matchmaking far more often than it is for GAC. So TW omicrons won't ever be as important as GAC omicrons (unless it's the top 0.01% guilds where they actually matter).
  • Jarov
    11 posts Member
    edited August 3

    Weird, I figured it was the responsibility of the developers of the game to, well, develop the game. If they're not able to produce systems that encourage players to spend while having fun, maybe EA should find someone that does?
  • Lumiya
    558 posts Member
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    About the "give us something actionable instead of saying we don't like it" sentiment he kept repeating, I think we gave them the first such consensus around excluding GLs already.
    That's not consensus at all.

    This is the main thing most agrees with. No, I don't have stats. Just reading the forums and talking around the community.

    I definitely am a +1 for DCs not working with GLs/squads with GLs. GLs don't need a boost, especially now when it seems they intend to give older GLs a Conquest lifter unit.
    We are all made of star-stuff
  • Eyak wrote: »
    Gorgus wrote: »
    GaCvet wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    So crumb said that nothing is free in development so integrating changes to squad arena to allow omicrons to be activated and no crystal refreshes or cooldowns isn’t likely is pathetic.

    lol

    I’m failing to see what’s funny. CG is refusing to do basic QoL things that could be slam dunks for them PR wise and they won’t do it.

    Players are begging for something to do in this game and are begging for a sandbox mode. Guess what? They have it in game and only need to make some small adjustments. Activate omicrons in squad arena, eliminate the limit on battles per day and get rid of the crystal refresh cost. Boom; a make shift sandbox mode that allows people to actually test things out properly with minimal effort; but just like you, CG simply said “lol” at such an easy idea.

    i said lol because CG’s reasoning for not doing it was so silly it made me laugh but a lot of haters that take offense to literally whatever i say and twist it around as if i’m defending them?

    i’ve always been pro-let us test omicrons for free without making the actual GAC / TW mode itself as a testing grounds for them

    Not a hater I get what you do here but as of late your main stance seems to be antagonistic and instead of keeping the forum adhering to the guidelines you are the one stoking the fire.

    I know that the mods here do it for free and I’m sure it can be stressful/annoying, especially in this community haha. But I agree that mods being antagonistic and mocking players and their concerns is very unhelpful. I’ve seen an uptick in that lately.

    Lol, why would they do it for free? Why? I mean you can be a mod for free on some community driven fan-forum, not on official forum for a rich company. What is the point of working for free, especially for CG? You gain nothing, you loose time and effort, and for what? I was 100% sure they were getting paid, otherwise it would be just dumb.
    They are doing it for free. Some people don’t mind if they “loose” time (or even lose time).
  • Eyak
    38 posts Member
    edited August 3
    Somehow it disappeared while fixing the "loose". So just gonna post it again.
    ---
    Lol, why would they do it for free? Why? I mean you can be a mod for free on some community driven fan-forum, not on official forum for a rich company. What is the point of working for free, especially for CG? You gain nothing, you lose time and effort, and for what? I was 100% sure they were getting paid, otherwise it would be just dumb.
    ---
    @DarjeloSalas
    As I said - for a cause that's worth it and fan driven. Not for a big company that spits on their players. They're just getting used in that situation.


    Post edited by Eyak on
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