Interesting observation
Start off by saying not a complaint thread but something I noticed.
So i do 20-25 arena fights a day. I enjoy seeing the workings of RNG, how random it is, and testing new builds and combos and such.
So we had the huge uproar that was the "whose Poe goes first" dictates the win. How that RNG played such a big role. Yes it was a huge impact, but beatable. It was also something you could plan for. Ok if that Poe goes first I do this. Or put in a bunch of turn 1(when speed was such) and hope for luck and kill him or stun him pre taunt. Point is you could plan for what Poe brought.
Now we have a similar, yet different situation. How big a dodge buff will Dooku give the team? I fight all day as I said and I see a MASSIVE variance in doge%. This can also dictate the outcome big time. I can't tell you how many times I've fought a team I normally coast through only to have it dodge like crazy. It seems it is the Poe who dodges if you try to hit pre taunt, or that final blow on a cannon that doges then with buff 1hko, or your Dooku dbl would kill but the 2nd is dodged, ect. That is RNG for you though. So Dooku, like Poe before brings this trait that can make an inferior team able to beat a superior one. Poe did it himself with the taunt, expose, TM, Dooku does it for the whole team with Dodge buff and offense up on dodge.
The big diffference is on offense I rarely dodge. I run Dooku lead but my GS or RG dodges nothing, while the AI dodges at 25-33% typically. This is where I find the flaw. Both should get the same dodge boost. If it were a 1 off I'd say poor RNG. This morning I tested. I faced a team that mirrors mine with one exceptiopn they have QGJ I have Yoda. I faced them 5x in a row(yes I dropped 50 crystals to go immediately in) I'll use RG and GS since Rey gets Foresight, and The Dookus are Dookus. In 5 fights. I was 3/5. I got slaughtered in 2 unable to land attacks. The final 1 my 1st 6 attacks were dodged, so basically their whole team acted before mine could do a thing. With Rey and GS offense up it was 5-3 before I got a shot in(Was this not similar to the Poe issue?)
Over 5 fights
His Dodge:
RG: 14(5 in 1 fight, loss)
GS:8
My Dodge:
RG:5
GS:3
Both our RGs and GS are the same, exception is I'm 73 he is 72. So the interesting observation is. We both run the same characters, same lead with max ability yet the results are vastly different. Nearly 3:1. I lost 2/5 both of which the Dodge was utterly insane. Bad RNG I know. It happens.
I posted this because I recall how the Poe issue was, but Dooku seems not as bad to some. The thing is I find Dooku leads harder than I diod the old Poe cannon teams. Poe cannon I could plan for. Dooku lead you can't. You have no clue if they will be dodge kings/queens, or normal. You don't know who will dodge what. At least with Poe you knew what to expect. The Poe meta got dull. The Dooku one is too. I start to have nightmares of the word "Dodge" lol. I think the Dooku lead removes the strategy nearly completely from offense. But hey I use him too,lol. Like I said observation not complaint.
Sometimes it is fun to have dodge fest. It does make the AI more competitive. Though I'd rather have them use moves better and target smarter, but I'll take what I get. More challenge the better.
The new power has risen, and it's name is not Chuck Norris or Sauron, it is Dooku!!!
Happy dodging all. Oh yeah, I can't wait for the updates this month. So stoked.
So i do 20-25 arena fights a day. I enjoy seeing the workings of RNG, how random it is, and testing new builds and combos and such.
So we had the huge uproar that was the "whose Poe goes first" dictates the win. How that RNG played such a big role. Yes it was a huge impact, but beatable. It was also something you could plan for. Ok if that Poe goes first I do this. Or put in a bunch of turn 1(when speed was such) and hope for luck and kill him or stun him pre taunt. Point is you could plan for what Poe brought.
Now we have a similar, yet different situation. How big a dodge buff will Dooku give the team? I fight all day as I said and I see a MASSIVE variance in doge%. This can also dictate the outcome big time. I can't tell you how many times I've fought a team I normally coast through only to have it dodge like crazy. It seems it is the Poe who dodges if you try to hit pre taunt, or that final blow on a cannon that doges then with buff 1hko, or your Dooku dbl would kill but the 2nd is dodged, ect. That is RNG for you though. So Dooku, like Poe before brings this trait that can make an inferior team able to beat a superior one. Poe did it himself with the taunt, expose, TM, Dooku does it for the whole team with Dodge buff and offense up on dodge.
The big diffference is on offense I rarely dodge. I run Dooku lead but my GS or RG dodges nothing, while the AI dodges at 25-33% typically. This is where I find the flaw. Both should get the same dodge boost. If it were a 1 off I'd say poor RNG. This morning I tested. I faced a team that mirrors mine with one exceptiopn they have QGJ I have Yoda. I faced them 5x in a row(yes I dropped 50 crystals to go immediately in) I'll use RG and GS since Rey gets Foresight, and The Dookus are Dookus. In 5 fights. I was 3/5. I got slaughtered in 2 unable to land attacks. The final 1 my 1st 6 attacks were dodged, so basically their whole team acted before mine could do a thing. With Rey and GS offense up it was 5-3 before I got a shot in(Was this not similar to the Poe issue?)
Over 5 fights
His Dodge:
RG: 14(5 in 1 fight, loss)
GS:8
My Dodge:
RG:5
GS:3
Both our RGs and GS are the same, exception is I'm 73 he is 72. So the interesting observation is. We both run the same characters, same lead with max ability yet the results are vastly different. Nearly 3:1. I lost 2/5 both of which the Dodge was utterly insane. Bad RNG I know. It happens.
I posted this because I recall how the Poe issue was, but Dooku seems not as bad to some. The thing is I find Dooku leads harder than I diod the old Poe cannon teams. Poe cannon I could plan for. Dooku lead you can't. You have no clue if they will be dodge kings/queens, or normal. You don't know who will dodge what. At least with Poe you knew what to expect. The Poe meta got dull. The Dooku one is too. I start to have nightmares of the word "Dodge" lol. I think the Dooku lead removes the strategy nearly completely from offense. But hey I use him too,lol. Like I said observation not complaint.
Sometimes it is fun to have dodge fest. It does make the AI more competitive. Though I'd rather have them use moves better and target smarter, but I'll take what I get. More challenge the better.
The new power has risen, and it's name is not Chuck Norris or Sauron, it is Dooku!!!
Happy dodging all. Oh yeah, I can't wait for the updates this month. So stoked.
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Replies
...Still stings
It happens. This was over 5 consecutive 1 after another battles. It happens and is part of the game. My observation is how similar this Dooku thing is to the old Poe one. I like that it adds a wrinkle to attacking though. The negative is it takes strat out. Planning for a dodge team is like planning a dice roll out. You might get it here and there, but most often you will be off.
Second, how did you fight the same person 5 times without him dropping off of your target list? I am guessing that you are in the top 5 (especially after so many refreshes) so you are able to see the other top 5 even when you beat them.
This does seem to promote the idea that the AI has an increased chance for each result.
Have you tried doing Auto attacks and checking the dodge percentage of your team when you aren't controlling them?
I don't track my gems spent to be honest. I keep a running balance of 7kish always and just spend as I want. I do the 200 refresh daily in arena.
I am typically at 1 throughout the day so I attack down. This guy is a main rival so if he is in my scope I fight him a lot to find weaknesses and exploits. Today I was at 2, a guildmate is at 1 with an early day payout so I left him and went to 2, attacking down to 4. He would not drop because I'm up higher. That is how.
On auto no. I know many of the top on my shard so I just ask them how it is. I enjoy the controlling of the battle too much to auto. Heck I still do the cake challemges for fun.
I would not ever AOE vs a Dooku lead. Asking for trouble,lol. I love the rare AOE I see when attacking. I can almost see my Dooku smile as it happens,lol.
I never said anything was wrong with RNG. I said that is rng for you. I just posted the Dodge of mirror characters over 5 strait fights in a row. Dodge nothing? I enjoy the dodging, even if I let out several curses during it as my big shots are dodged
I hear you. It scares me to use Dooku lightening even as when deflected it does the same.
The only problem with AOE vs Dooku is that it is normally not enough damage to him vs his counter damage. I'm more worried about AOE against Jedi teams with Ima-Gun as lead since you never know how many will counter. When it's just Dooku, you know it's just a single (maybe 2 counters).
Isn't it 50, then 100, what's the 3rd refresh?
The results have been a far more reliable win rate, with only the most horrific RNG resulting in a loss (usually involving both high dodge rates and absurd ress rates with Daka).
The problem is not the counter it is if 3 on Dookus team dodge the AOE they get offense up. Your AOE can buff the team.
Yes I ran QGJ lead 73 full leader. It helped. I have no real issue. RNG is RNG. QGJ is so easy to stun though is his weakness.
I run a droid team with ig88. his aoe is a big part of his offense. If i cant use that, then he MAYBE gets one attack before being killed, and that attack may be dodged. HK47's AOE is a large part of his character as well, but you will almost always give the entire enemy team offense up because they are going to resist at least 1 of the 4 debuffs he drops on them. So those two droids are useless against dooku lead teams. That leaves ig86 and ig100 for my droid team. So Dooku has effectively neutralized the droid team i spent 2 months building. When i looked today 21 of the top 25 in my arena had dooku as lead. Its frustrating that your team is fairly capable one day, then the next day they make a change to dooku's leader ability and they cant compete in the top 100 anymore.
Yes that's always an issue with him. Though Yoda nullifies that weakness (as painful as it is to use Tenacity Up on the first turn). Though I'm quite sure I don't have to tell you that, but it's worth mentioning as far as being able to consistently plan for Dooku.
On my shard there's also a guy that consistently places top 5 with a Rebel team (Ackbar lead), and I'm certain his reasoning is the same as mine. Though his team is likely even more effective since it doesn't have the Jedi weaknesses.
My shard I have bigger threats with Dooku so I don't do the tenacity up. I take TM from GS or if a Poe him to buy time to kill.
Now that's an interesting difference. While the GS is a threat that I deal with consistently (and who doesn't? ), I haven't seen a Poe in arena in weeks. The only tanks on my shard are ST Han and Royal Guard.
I've seen Poe, Han vanished. RG is the most prevelint. I know I've used him since his tweak.
I've faced a couple Dooku, RG/Poe 3 cannons. I'm not wasting a Yoda move to tenacity up. Especially if RG is in. I'll remove TM from the slowest, stun one, or try, and 1 shot the lowest HP, often Rey. So that they are at least hurt and slowed when RG activates.
I only Tenacity Up when there's a Dooku and a Daka. When it's the more common 3 dps and a RG, I do pretty much the same as you.
Do you think Anakin is consistent enough to use against RG? I've been tempted, because he can outspeed Dooku, but I'm not sure if buff immunity is reliable enough to make it worthwhile.
A guy runs him on my shard. He can be annoying, but he is not a big threat. I toss my stun at him first then have time to deal with it.
It is interesting that you compared the current Dooku situation with the Poe coin flip era of the game. I think you can better plan for Dooku than Poe. With Poe, not much can be done if the opposing team's Poe went first. But with Dooku, the chance of losing gradually increases with each dodge, instead of losing 90% of the times if the other Poe went first.
Now the next part is the problem I have with majority of the Dooku posts. Many of these posts use observations of few battles to draw conclusion about Dooku providing more dodge to AI opponents than the players initiating the battle. I am not a statistic genius but I know having a small sample size DOES NOT lead to accurate prediction of the overall dodge %. The "Dooku meta" has been going on for a while now. Yet I have not seen any one put in the effort to have an analysis of Dooku's dodge with a strong data to support the claim that somehow AI dodges more than players. And there is nothing wrong with that. This is a game, most people are here to have fun, not running a statistic analysis. That's why we have the Dooku megathread.
Sad thing is, there never was a speed meta. I fought the new leadership Qui-Gon teams and won 3 out of 3, while 4 of their characters went before me and they are considerably harder, but beatable. They weren't exactly the absolute best teams even if they had Yoda, but i fight weird Dooku lead teams all the times, yet i lose to them. They could give Qui-Gon 300 extra speed, still wouldn't be worse than Dooku. How do i plan for Dooku teams when 5* Rey who i am SUPPOSED TO ONE-SHOT, because she does the same thing to me otherwise, dodges? This guy had a nobody team otherwise, besides Rey 5* and Dooku 6* lead. Yet he won 2 times. I would be surprised at this point if my overall win rate against Dooku lead teams is positive. 'I beat Dooku teams 90% of the time...' said someone - hopefully the RNG starts hitting you like it hits me everyday.
There is nothing you can do when Rey dodges 3 out of the 4 hits, QGJ and Geo asisst attacks and thenot she gains offense up and one shots you and gains foresight
Or your Geo misses and there destroys your guy
I run a 5 star Dooku lead now because of the Dooku meta and compete and beat much higher teams and place in the top 5 pretty much everyday
5 star Dooku lead > Your 7 star leader
Yeah I do spreedsheets as I do evals on the restaurants I fix. I avoid them off the clock. I took a small sample of what I see consistently fighting 20-25x per day. I play for fun not to do research and data sheets, though I write strats for my guild. I could have buffed the numbers to allow for the true average I see, but that would not alter the % much. Simply because it is not on a spreedsheet does not make it less relevant. I made this post after many times. It is also not a complaint post. I rather enjoy the twist. To Poe though I'll say I almost never lost, I lose far more to Dooku lead than I did the old Poe builds. It is needed though as AI D is pretty bad. On a final note mine was not done off random teams mine was off the exact same team 1 after another. Not a fight vs team a then later a fight vs team c. I fought team a 5x in a row no break.
It is frustrating. I beat Dooku teams a lot. I rarely lose, when I do it is Dooku lead. It is how you attack. I usually use Dooku lead myself. currently I use him as lead with Rey, Yoda, GS, RG. I use their abilities, strengths, weaknesses to build their evasion up. This counters the Dooku lead buff AI gets. Think of it this way. You can be a crack shot, but if your target is moving like crazy it is harder to hit, so you adjust your skills to compensate. No different here. My build destroys non Dooku lead teams in very short order, and it is not even a DPS team really. Dooku added the crazy movement(Dodge) so I have to use that build not as the meat cleaver I was using, but more like a carving knife.
This is, again, not a complaint thread. It is a thread for observation and for strat talk even on it. So I hope it does not get added to the shuffle.
Always and never are 2 words that are simply wrong.
This is the least diverse meta in the history of the game on my shard. There were never this many Barriss leaders, or Phasma leaders, or Sid leaders, or QGJ leaders, or anything else.
I love Dooku and I wanted his leader ability to be fixed. But this situation is completely insane.
13/20 on my shard of the same timeframe.