Major Flaw in the Krayt Raid

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The raid has a 3 day timer with a 90k ticket cost. The guild I'm in has it set to auto launch. The raid system has failed to finalize the results in time and has missed the auto launch window multiple times. It is screwing up the schedule and we've capped tickets because of it. This built in flaw has lowered our return through no fault of our own.

Replies

  • Options
    Our raid runs for 71 hours and calculates for an hour before auto starting at the same time every 3 days. Is yours lasting the full 72, or calculating for more than an hour? Seems bizarre it wouldn’t be consistent between guilds.
  • Options
    Change it to auto launch immediately instead of a set time.
  • iMalevolence
    350 posts Member
    edited May 2023
    Options
    Dawnsinger wrote: »
    Our raid runs for 71 hours and calculates for an hour before auto starting at the same time every 3 days. Is yours lasting the full 72, or calculating for more than an hour? Seems bizarre it wouldn’t be consistent between guilds.

    It has only failed to auto launch two or three times since we starting running it. But we capped tickets once because of it and therefore wasted rewards because of the bug. And it's not unreasonable to assume that the current implementation will screw over every guild in the game, even setting it to "immediate", because each second or two over will eventually push a guild past their guild reset window.
    Change it to auto launch immediately instead of a set time.

    See above.
  • Options
    , even setting it to "immediate", because each second or two over will eventually push a guild past their guild reset time.

    Eventually. Let's say 10 seconds delay every run. Once it has happened to a guild once, and then their "immediate" is now after guild reset, then it will take 8640 more runs of the raid to come back around to their guild reset time. Once every 3 days makes that 71 years until it comes back around to happen to that guild again.

    I think your definition of major flaw is different to mine, and I hope the devs don't waste any hours on this.

    Setting to immediate is an adequate solution.

    Here's my math in case I messed it up:
    10 seconds delay per run slowly moving immediate launch.
    24×60×60=86,400 seconds in a day.
    86,400÷10= 8,640 number of runs to move immediate launch by a day with 10 second delay.
    8,640×3=25,920 number of days to launch a raid that lasts 3 days 8,640 times.
    25,920÷365=71 years (rounded down and not accounting for leap years).

    This game has shown its got legs, but 71 years is crazy talk.
  • Options
    , even setting it to "immediate", because each second or two over will eventually push a guild past their guild reset time.

    Eventually. Let's say 10 seconds delay every run. Once it has happened to a guild once, and then their "immediate" is now after guild reset, then it will take 8640 more runs of the raid to come back around to their guild reset time. Once every 3 days makes that 71 years until it comes back around to happen to that guild again.

    I think your definition of major flaw is different to mine, and I hope the devs don't waste any hours on this.

    Setting to immediate is an adequate solution.

    Here's my math in case I messed it up:
    10 seconds delay per run slowly moving immediate launch.
    24×60×60=86,400 seconds in a day.
    86,400÷10= 8,640 number of runs to move immediate launch by a day with 10 second delay.
    8,640×3=25,920 number of days to launch a raid that lasts 3 days 8,640 times.
    25,920÷365=71 years (rounded down and not accounting for leap years).

    This game has shown its got legs, but 71 years is crazy talk.

    My guild has lost over 15k tickets because of it because our raid launch time was right before the guild reset. Rewards are eventually being delayed after TW or GAC lock. Problems happening to just 1% of guilds is a lot of people.
  • scuba
    14148 posts Member
    Options
    , even setting it to "immediate", because each second or two over will eventually push a guild past their guild reset time.

    Eventually. Let's say 10 seconds delay every run. Once it has happened to a guild once, and then their "immediate" is now after guild reset, then it will take 8640 more runs of the raid to come back around to their guild reset time. Once every 3 days makes that 71 years until it comes back around to happen to that guild again.

    I think your definition of major flaw is different to mine, and I hope the devs don't waste any hours on this.

    Setting to immediate is an adequate solution.

    Here's my math in case I messed it up:
    10 seconds delay per run slowly moving immediate launch.
    24×60×60=86,400 seconds in a day.
    86,400÷10= 8,640 number of runs to move immediate launch by a day with 10 second delay.
    8,640×3=25,920 number of days to launch a raid that lasts 3 days 8,640 times.
    25,920÷365=71 years (rounded down and not accounting for leap years).

    This game has shown its got legs, but 71 years is crazy talk.

    They don't have to waste hours to fix it. Shorten length of raid or the stupid calculation hour by 10 mins, problem solved
  • Options
    , even setting it to "immediate", because each second or two over will eventually push a guild past their guild reset time.

    Eventually. Let's say 10 seconds delay every run. Once it has happened to a guild once, and then their "immediate" is now after guild reset, then it will take 8640 more runs of the raid to come back around to their guild reset time. Once every 3 days makes that 71 years until it comes back around to happen to that guild again.

    I think your definition of major flaw is different to mine, and I hope the devs don't waste any hours on this.

    Setting to immediate is an adequate solution.

    Here's my math in case I messed it up:
    10 seconds delay per run slowly moving immediate launch.
    24×60×60=86,400 seconds in a day.
    86,400÷10= 8,640 number of runs to move immediate launch by a day with 10 second delay.
    8,640×3=25,920 number of days to launch a raid that lasts 3 days 8,640 times.
    25,920÷365=71 years (rounded down and not accounting for leap years).

    This game has shown its got legs, but 71 years is crazy talk.

    My guild has lost over 15k tickets because of it because our raid launch time was right before the guild reset. Rewards are eventually being delayed after TW or GAC lock. Problems happening to just 1% of guilds is a lot of people.

    So over the 71 year period for this to happen to your guild again that's 15k÷71÷365=0.58 energy per day (across a 50 player guild, so 0.012 per player). Seems the definition of a negligible flaw to me.
  • Options
    Also, does having auto launch set prevent an officer from just launching it when they notice it's not going? How did you cap out? If you did, then it runs for 3 days anyway, enough time to max out tickets again anyway.

    So the major flaw is that it's going to be however much later than when an officer notices it isn't running? Or a member that asks an officer?

    Negligible.
  • iMalevolence
    350 posts Member
    edited May 2023
    Options
    , even setting it to "immediate", because each second or two over will eventually push a guild past their guild reset time.

    Eventually. Let's say 10 seconds delay every run. Once it has happened to a guild once, and then their "immediate" is now after guild reset, then it will take 8640 more runs of the raid to come back around to their guild reset time. Once every 3 days makes that 71 years until it comes back around to happen to that guild again.

    I think your definition of major flaw is different to mine, and I hope the devs don't waste any hours on this.

    Setting to immediate is an adequate solution.

    Here's my math in case I messed it up:
    10 seconds delay per run slowly moving immediate launch.
    24×60×60=86,400 seconds in a day.
    86,400÷10= 8,640 number of runs to move immediate launch by a day with 10 second delay.
    8,640×3=25,920 number of days to launch a raid that lasts 3 days 8,640 times.
    25,920÷365=71 years (rounded down and not accounting for leap years).

    This game has shown its got legs, but 71 years is crazy talk.

    My guild has lost over 15k tickets because of it because our raid launch time was right before the guild reset. Rewards are eventually being delayed after TW or GAC lock. Problems happening to just 1% of guilds is a lot of people.

    So over the 71 year period for this to happen to your guild again that's 15k÷71÷365=0.58 energy per day (across a 50 player guild, so 0.012 per player). Seems the definition of a negligible flaw to me.

    Except this supposed 71 year period you keep mentioning happened within a week and a half of the raid being out. And again, this effects all guilds who were running raids just before the guild reset window. This effects every guild getting rewards pushed after TW lock and after GAC lock. This will very negatively effect guilds with less active officers who aren't noticing or catching the issue.

    Quit being dismissive of something that is very clearly a design flaw that negatively impacts players and will continue to negatively impact players until it is resolved. As Scuba said, the fix for this is simple enough. Suggesting this be ignored is absurd.

    /e Also, I have proof of raids missing the window by 4 minutes, so your 71 year period could be off by a factor of 24 and screwing guilds every 3 years is kind of messed up.
  • BubbaFett
    3311 posts Member
    Options
    Dawnsinger wrote: »
    Our raid runs for 71 hours and calculates for an hour before auto starting at the same time every 3 days. Is yours lasting the full 72, or calculating for more than an hour? Seems bizarre it wouldn’t be consistent between guilds.

    It has only failed to auto launch two or three times since we starting running it. But we capped tickets once because of it and therefore wasted rewards because of the bug. And it's not unreasonable to assume that the current implementation will screw over every guild in the game, even setting it to "immediate", because each second or two over will eventually push a guild past their guild reset window.
    Change it to auto launch immediately instead of a set time.

    See above.

    The raid runs 71 hours... If it launches at noon, it will finish at 11 o'clock 3 days later, spend an hour finalizing results, then launch again at noon...

    Our guild had the same issue after they fixed the rewards. The raid didn't auto launch even though it was set to... I went in, reddid the launch commands and it had been working fine ever since.. I'd suggest you try that..
  • iMalevolence
    350 posts Member
    edited May 2023
    Options
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    Dawnsinger wrote: »
    Our raid runs for 71 hours and calculates for an hour before auto starting at the same time every 3 days. Is yours lasting the full 72, or calculating for more than an hour? Seems bizarre it wouldn’t be consistent between guilds.

    It has only failed to auto launch two or three times since we starting running it. But we capped tickets once because of it and therefore wasted rewards because of the bug. And it's not unreasonable to assume that the current implementation will screw over every guild in the game, even setting it to "immediate", because each second or two over will eventually push a guild past their guild reset window.
    Change it to auto launch immediately instead of a set time.

    See above.

    The raid runs 71 hours... If it launches at noon, it will finish at 11 o'clock 3 days later, spend an hour finalizing results, then launch again at noon...

    Our guild had the same issue after they fixed the rewards. The raid didn't auto launch even though it was set to... I went in, reddid the launch commands and it had been working fine ever since.. I'd suggest you try that..

    The failure to auto launch at a specific time is seemingly random. I assume because it depends on if the game fully processes your final results in that window. I assume more populated raid times means an increased processing time that exceeds the window, pushes the completion to slightly later, and then fails to auto launch because that time is gone.

    lawanurlufuc.png

    Our raid was auto launched at 8pm 3 days prior and the game didn't fully complete our raid until 8:02pm.

    ssxfiijvxl23.png

    This picture we had it set to auto launch at 7 and it missed the finalizing window by 4 minutes. This is when we first noticed it happening. Our guild reset timer is at 7:30pm. Over the course of it happening a few times and officers needing to go in and manually launch it, we went over that 7:30 threshold and lost tickets.
  • Options
    Sorry I'm missing why it's an issue to just set your time to immediately? I'm pretty sure that solves the problem, although it's possible that I'm missing something???

    I agree that it certainly seems like a negligible problem. Definitely not something that developers need to spend time on when there are so many other must bigger issues in the game.
  • ragnoris
    70 posts Member
    Options
    Given the new structure where everyone can just hit whenever they want, there no longer seems to be a reason to have a set time, especially not near reset. If launch time is set to say 6 hours after reset, then after launch it is updated to immediate, the processing should no longer be an issue and any movement caused by varying processing length should not run the risk of negatively interacting with guild reset.
  • iMalevolence
    350 posts Member
    edited May 2023
    Options
    Sumo_Sloth wrote: »
    Sorry I'm missing why it's an issue to just set your time to immediately? I'm pretty sure that solves the problem, although it's possible that I'm missing something???

    I agree that it certainly seems like a negligible problem. Definitely not something that developers need to spend time on when there are so many other must bigger issues in the game.

    It doesn't solve the issue though. I have evidence of the raid launch being delayed by up to 4 minutes. Longer delays probably exist. This will continue to happen for guilds, constantly pushing the reward window back. Missing rewards in time for an event lock is a problem. And if it's based on the number of guilds in the window being processed, guilds will likely start to clump up and cause more issues and longer delays.

    This is something that needs resolved because it will continue to cause issues over the lifespan of the game. They have multiple ways to resolve this issue and suggesting they ignore it is problematic.
    ragnoris wrote: »
    Given the new structure where everyone can just hit whenever they want, there no longer seems to be a reason to have a set time, especially not near reset. If launch time is set to say 6 hours after reset, then after launch it is updated to immediate, the processing should no longer be an issue and any movement caused by varying processing length should not run the risk of negatively interacting with guild reset.

    It's not just guild reset, it's event locks as well.
  • StarSon
    7507 posts Member
    Options
    This feels like a random edge case affecting you specifically. First of all, rewards timing doesn't really matter anymore. You have a steady income of tokens, use them as needed or save some up for "event locks."

    Second of all, this timing issue doesn't actually change the amount of raids you do in a week, so I fail to see how it's an issue at all.
  • Options
    StarSon wrote: »
    This feels like a random edge case affecting you specifically. First of all, rewards timing doesn't really matter anymore. You have a steady income of tokens, use them as needed or save some up for "event locks."

    Second of all, this timing issue doesn't actually change the amount of raids you do in a week, so I fail to see how it's an issue at all.

    Considering someone else also posted a thread about raids not auto launching, I can guarantee it's not just affecting me specifically. And just because you fail to see how this is an issue, it doesn't mean it isn't one. If this has impacted one guild it can, and will, impact others. I'm trying to help before it becomes a similar problem for other guilds. How about you willingly delay your raids and waste tickets? No? Then it's a problem.
  • StarSon
    7507 posts Member
    Options
    StarSon wrote: »
    This feels like a random edge case affecting you specifically. First of all, rewards timing doesn't really matter anymore. You have a steady income of tokens, use them as needed or save some up for "event locks."

    Second of all, this timing issue doesn't actually change the amount of raids you do in a week, so I fail to see how it's an issue at all.

    Considering someone else also posted a thread about raids not auto launching, I can guarantee it's not just affecting me specifically. And just because you fail to see how this is an issue, it doesn't mean it isn't one. If this has impacted one guild it can, and will, impact others. I'm trying to help before it becomes a similar problem for other guilds. How about you willingly delay your raids and waste tickets? No? Then it's a problem.

    Explain it then. How does a 6 minute delay actually affect anything? Let's say it launches "on time" and you don't "waste tickets". Do you get to run an extra raid this month as a result? Or does your raid still launch at the end of this raid regardless?
  • Options
    StarSon wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    This feels like a random edge case affecting you specifically. First of all, rewards timing doesn't really matter anymore. You have a steady income of tokens, use them as needed or save some up for "event locks."

    Second of all, this timing issue doesn't actually change the amount of raids you do in a week, so I fail to see how it's an issue at all.

    Considering someone else also posted a thread about raids not auto launching, I can guarantee it's not just affecting me specifically. And just because you fail to see how this is an issue, it doesn't mean it isn't one. If this has impacted one guild it can, and will, impact others. I'm trying to help before it becomes a similar problem for other guilds. How about you willingly delay your raids and waste tickets? No? Then it's a problem.

    Explain it then. How does a 6 minute delay actually affect anything? Let's say it launches "on time" and you don't "waste tickets". Do you get to run an extra raid this month as a result? Or does your raid still launch at the end of this raid regardless?

    If I have 135k tickets and the raid doesn't auto launch and I waste 15k tickets, how is that not a problem? If other guilds get 6 minute delays regularly and also waste tickets, is that not a problem? Those are tickets that would have granted extra wiggle room with participation, maybe it does eventually equate to an extra raid at some point.

    Regardless, it's something that SHOULDN'T be happening. It's a design oversight that should be reasonably easy to rectify.

    Again, how about you delay your raids by a day and waste tickets? Then keep doing that once for every guild that has the issue. And you'll finally see that a little bit of a problem for lots of people is a problem.
  • StarSon
    7507 posts Member
    Options
    StarSon wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    This feels like a random edge case affecting you specifically. First of all, rewards timing doesn't really matter anymore. You have a steady income of tokens, use them as needed or save some up for "event locks."

    Second of all, this timing issue doesn't actually change the amount of raids you do in a week, so I fail to see how it's an issue at all.

    Considering someone else also posted a thread about raids not auto launching, I can guarantee it's not just affecting me specifically. And just because you fail to see how this is an issue, it doesn't mean it isn't one. If this has impacted one guild it can, and will, impact others. I'm trying to help before it becomes a similar problem for other guilds. How about you willingly delay your raids and waste tickets? No? Then it's a problem.

    Explain it then. How does a 6 minute delay actually affect anything? Let's say it launches "on time" and you don't "waste tickets". Do you get to run an extra raid this month as a result? Or does your raid still launch at the end of this raid regardless?

    If I have 135k tickets and the raid doesn't auto launch and I waste 15k tickets, how is that not a problem?

    The raid runs for 3 days and costs 90k tickets. Coincidentally, during the 3 days the raid is running, you earn 90k tickets. So, unless you somehow start only gaining, like, 15k tickets, it won't be a problem, because a raid is always on.
    If other guilds get 6 minute delays regularly and also waste tickets, is that not a problem? Those are tickets that would have granted extra wiggle room with participation, maybe it does eventually equate to an extra raid at some point.

    Regardless, it's something that SHOULDN'T be happening. It's a design oversight that should be reasonably easy to rectify.

    Again, how about you delay your raids by a day and waste tickets? Then keep doing that once for every guild that has the issue. And you'll finally see that a little bit of a problem for lots of people is a problem.

    The 6 minute delay is meaningless for any guild that existed when the raid launched, because you will always simply have enough tickets. Whether you "waste" all 30k or 1k or you timed it differently so you launch before reset and never "waste" any. It's simply never going to be an issue for you guild because, except for those 66 minutes every 3 days, you will always have a raid going.
  • Options
    StarSon wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    This feels like a random edge case affecting you specifically. First of all, rewards timing doesn't really matter anymore. You have a steady income of tokens, use them as needed or save some up for "event locks."

    Second of all, this timing issue doesn't actually change the amount of raids you do in a week, so I fail to see how it's an issue at all.

    Considering someone else also posted a thread about raids not auto launching, I can guarantee it's not just affecting me specifically. And just because you fail to see how this is an issue, it doesn't mean it isn't one. If this has impacted one guild it can, and will, impact others. I'm trying to help before it becomes a similar problem for other guilds. How about you willingly delay your raids and waste tickets? No? Then it's a problem.

    Explain it then. How does a 6 minute delay actually affect anything? Let's say it launches "on time" and you don't "waste tickets". Do you get to run an extra raid this month as a result? Or does your raid still launch at the end of this raid regardless?

    If I have 135k tickets and the raid doesn't auto launch and I waste 15k tickets, how is that not a problem?

    The raid runs for 3 days and costs 90k tickets. Coincidentally, during the 3 days the raid is running, you earn 90k tickets. So, unless you somehow start only gaining, like, 15k tickets, it won't be a problem, because a raid is always on.
    If other guilds get 6 minute delays regularly and also waste tickets, is that not a problem? Those are tickets that would have granted extra wiggle room with participation, maybe it does eventually equate to an extra raid at some point.

    Regardless, it's something that SHOULDN'T be happening. It's a design oversight that should be reasonably easy to rectify.

    Again, how about you delay your raids by a day and waste tickets? Then keep doing that once for every guild that has the issue. And you'll finally see that a little bit of a problem for lots of people is a problem.

    The 6 minute delay is meaningless for any guild that existed when the raid launched, because you will always simply have enough tickets. Whether you "waste" all 30k or 1k or you timed it differently so you launch before reset and never "waste" any. It's simply never going to be an issue for you guild because, except for those 66 minutes every 3 days, you will always have a raid going.

    You are incredibly wrong and I'm not sure how I can explain it in a more simple way.

    Guild start raid
    Raid not finish and start exact same time, 72 hours later.
    Guild raid timer pushed back
    Raid timer passes daily reset and guild earns 4 days worth of tickets during a 3 day raid window
    Guild has up to 30k earned tickets that get deleted from existence THROUGH NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN.
    Up to 30k tickets could have been used to start a raid sooner down the line when people eventually miss 600 tickets
    Guild shafted
  • StarSon
    7507 posts Member
    Options
    StarSon wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    This feels like a random edge case affecting you specifically. First of all, rewards timing doesn't really matter anymore. You have a steady income of tokens, use them as needed or save some up for "event locks."

    Second of all, this timing issue doesn't actually change the amount of raids you do in a week, so I fail to see how it's an issue at all.

    Considering someone else also posted a thread about raids not auto launching, I can guarantee it's not just affecting me specifically. And just because you fail to see how this is an issue, it doesn't mean it isn't one. If this has impacted one guild it can, and will, impact others. I'm trying to help before it becomes a similar problem for other guilds. How about you willingly delay your raids and waste tickets? No? Then it's a problem.

    Explain it then. How does a 6 minute delay actually affect anything? Let's say it launches "on time" and you don't "waste tickets". Do you get to run an extra raid this month as a result? Or does your raid still launch at the end of this raid regardless?

    If I have 135k tickets and the raid doesn't auto launch and I waste 15k tickets, how is that not a problem?

    The raid runs for 3 days and costs 90k tickets. Coincidentally, during the 3 days the raid is running, you earn 90k tickets. So, unless you somehow start only gaining, like, 15k tickets, it won't be a problem, because a raid is always on.
    If other guilds get 6 minute delays regularly and also waste tickets, is that not a problem? Those are tickets that would have granted extra wiggle room with participation, maybe it does eventually equate to an extra raid at some point.

    Regardless, it's something that SHOULDN'T be happening. It's a design oversight that should be reasonably easy to rectify.

    Again, how about you delay your raids by a day and waste tickets? Then keep doing that once for every guild that has the issue. And you'll finally see that a little bit of a problem for lots of people is a problem.

    The 6 minute delay is meaningless for any guild that existed when the raid launched, because you will always simply have enough tickets. Whether you "waste" all 30k or 1k or you timed it differently so you launch before reset and never "waste" any. It's simply never going to be an issue for you guild because, except for those 66 minutes every 3 days, you will always have a raid going.

    You are incredibly wrong and I'm not sure how I can explain it in a more simple way.

    Guild start raid
    Raid not finish and start exact same time, 72 hours later.
    Guild raid timer pushed back
    Raid timer passes daily reset and guild earns 4 days worth of tickets during a 3 day raid window
    Guild has up to 30k earned tickets that get deleted from existence THROUGH NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN.
    Up to 30k tickets could have been used to start a raid sooner down the line when people eventually miss 600 tickets
    Guild shafted

    Let's say you manually start the raid to avoid the 6 minute delay. You drop from 135k tokens to 45k tokens. You do the raid. Raid is over again. Now you're at 135k tokens. You start the raid. You're at 45k tokens. For infinity.

    Let's say you miss it, and it starts "late." You hit 150k tokens. Raid starts, you're at 60k tokens. 3 days later, raid is over. Now you're at 150k tokens. You start the raid. You're at 60k tokens.

    Now, obviously I can see that you have a different amount of tokens at the start and end here. But so what? In both scenarios you will immediately start the raid in perpetuity. Therefore, there is no issue here, and at best this is a minor "flaw" in however CG has this process setup.
  • MaruMaru
    3338 posts Member
    Options
    StarSon wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    This feels like a random edge case affecting you specifically. First of all, rewards timing doesn't really matter anymore. You have a steady income of tokens, use them as needed or save some up for "event locks."

    Second of all, this timing issue doesn't actually change the amount of raids you do in a week, so I fail to see how it's an issue at all.

    Considering someone else also posted a thread about raids not auto launching, I can guarantee it's not just affecting me specifically. And just because you fail to see how this is an issue, it doesn't mean it isn't one. If this has impacted one guild it can, and will, impact others. I'm trying to help before it becomes a similar problem for other guilds. How about you willingly delay your raids and waste tickets? No? Then it's a problem.

    Explain it then. How does a 6 minute delay actually affect anything? Let's say it launches "on time" and you don't "waste tickets". Do you get to run an extra raid this month as a result? Or does your raid still launch at the end of this raid regardless?

    If I have 135k tickets and the raid doesn't auto launch and I waste 15k tickets, how is that not a problem?

    The raid runs for 3 days and costs 90k tickets. Coincidentally, during the 3 days the raid is running, you earn 90k tickets. So, unless you somehow start only gaining, like, 15k tickets, it won't be a problem, because a raid is always on.
    If other guilds get 6 minute delays regularly and also waste tickets, is that not a problem? Those are tickets that would have granted extra wiggle room with participation, maybe it does eventually equate to an extra raid at some point.

    Regardless, it's something that SHOULDN'T be happening. It's a design oversight that should be reasonably easy to rectify.

    Again, how about you delay your raids by a day and waste tickets? Then keep doing that once for every guild that has the issue. And you'll finally see that a little bit of a problem for lots of people is a problem.

    The 6 minute delay is meaningless for any guild that existed when the raid launched, because you will always simply have enough tickets. Whether you "waste" all 30k or 1k or you timed it differently so you launch before reset and never "waste" any. It's simply never going to be an issue for you guild because, except for those 66 minutes every 3 days, you will always have a raid going.

    You are incredibly wrong and I'm not sure how I can explain it in a more simple way.

    Guild start raid
    Raid not finish and start exact same time, 72 hours later.
    Guild raid timer pushed back
    Raid timer passes daily reset and guild earns 4 days worth of tickets during a 3 day raid window
    Guild has up to 30k earned tickets that get deleted from existence THROUGH NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN.
    Up to 30k tickets could have been used to start a raid sooner down the line when people eventually miss 600 tickets
    Guild shafted

    Given this is an identified problem, I think it should be fixed. Don't overplay the effect of it though. You get the push once, next time you possibly get it is in aeons. It should be fixed so that it doesn't happen for others for the first time.
  • Options
    StarSon wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    This feels like a random edge case affecting you specifically. First of all, rewards timing doesn't really matter anymore. You have a steady income of tokens, use them as needed or save some up for "event locks."

    Second of all, this timing issue doesn't actually change the amount of raids you do in a week, so I fail to see how it's an issue at all.

    Considering someone else also posted a thread about raids not auto launching, I can guarantee it's not just affecting me specifically. And just because you fail to see how this is an issue, it doesn't mean it isn't one. If this has impacted one guild it can, and will, impact others. I'm trying to help before it becomes a similar problem for other guilds. How about you willingly delay your raids and waste tickets? No? Then it's a problem.

    Explain it then. How does a 6 minute delay actually affect anything? Let's say it launches "on time" and you don't "waste tickets". Do you get to run an extra raid this month as a result? Or does your raid still launch at the end of this raid regardless?

    If I have 135k tickets and the raid doesn't auto launch and I waste 15k tickets, how is that not a problem?

    The raid runs for 3 days and costs 90k tickets. Coincidentally, during the 3 days the raid is running, you earn 90k tickets. So, unless you somehow start only gaining, like, 15k tickets, it won't be a problem, because a raid is always on.
    If other guilds get 6 minute delays regularly and also waste tickets, is that not a problem? Those are tickets that would have granted extra wiggle room with participation, maybe it does eventually equate to an extra raid at some point.

    Regardless, it's something that SHOULDN'T be happening. It's a design oversight that should be reasonably easy to rectify.

    Again, how about you delay your raids by a day and waste tickets? Then keep doing that once for every guild that has the issue. And you'll finally see that a little bit of a problem for lots of people is a problem.

    The 6 minute delay is meaningless for any guild that existed when the raid launched, because you will always simply have enough tickets. Whether you "waste" all 30k or 1k or you timed it differently so you launch before reset and never "waste" any. It's simply never going to be an issue for you guild because, except for those 66 minutes every 3 days, you will always have a raid going.

    You are incredibly wrong and I'm not sure how I can explain it in a more simple way.

    Guild start raid
    Raid not finish and start exact same time, 72 hours later.
    Guild raid timer pushed back
    Raid timer passes daily reset and guild earns 4 days worth of tickets during a 3 day raid window
    Guild has up to 30k earned tickets that get deleted from existence THROUGH NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN.
    Up to 30k tickets could have been used to start a raid sooner down the line when people eventually miss 600 tickets
    Guild shafted

    Let's say you manually start the raid to avoid the 6 minute delay. You drop from 135k tokens to 45k tokens. You do the raid. Raid is over again. Now you're at 135k tokens. You start the raid. You're at 45k tokens. For infinity.

    Let's say you miss it, and it starts "late." You hit 150k tokens. Raid starts, you're at 60k tokens. 3 days later, raid is over. Now you're at 150k tokens. You start the raid. You're at 60k tokens.

    Now, obviously I can see that you have a different amount of tokens at the start and end here. But so what? In both scenarios you will immediately start the raid in perpetuity. Therefore, there is no issue here, and at best this is a minor "flaw" in however CG has this process setup.

    And say you start getting 27k tickets per day.

    150 - 90 = 60
    60 + 81 = 141
    141 - 90 = 51
    51 + 81 = 132
    ...123
    ...114
    ...105
    ...96
    ...87

    Oh wait, I should have 102. And should have been able to raid.
  • LordDirt
    5125 posts Member
    Options
    Such an easy fix yet so many just ignore it. Shows how some just want to argue and not actually get a solution.
    Why wasn't Cobb Vanth shards a reward for the Krayt Dragon raid? Why wasn't Endor Gear Luke shards a reward for the Speeder Bike raid?
  • iMalevolence
    350 posts Member
    edited May 2023
    Options
    LordDirt wrote: »
    Such an easy fix yet so many just ignore it. Shows how some just want to argue and not actually get a solution.

    People saying CG shouldn't waste time on a easily fixable bug that hasn't directly impacted them but has and will continue to negatively impact others is one of those glaringly obvious displays of the oh so prevalent, "screw you, I got mine." mentality. It takes no time to deduce that this is an oversight that needs resolved and people still fight against it because it hasn't directly affected them.
  • herd_nerfer
    2071 posts Member
    Options
    So, yeah, they could probably fix this by changing a setting somewhere. If it's that easy, then they probably should.

    That being said, I feel like this is being made a much bigger thing than it needs to be. Your guild mates would have to be earning less than max tickets for a pretty long while before those tickets were ever missed. But by the sounds of it all your guild mates are getting max tickets every day for this to even be an issue - and that being the case, I'm finding it hard to find the issue.

    So sure, it's a quirk - maybe even a bug - and as such it SHOULD be fixed. But how urgent is it, really?

    Out of curiosity have you filed a bug report with Answers HQ?
    F2P since the last time I bought Kyros, Crystals, or the Conquest Pass.
  • StarSon
    7507 posts Member
    Options
    StarSon wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    This feels like a random edge case affecting you specifically. First of all, rewards timing doesn't really matter anymore. You have a steady income of tokens, use them as needed or save some up for "event locks."

    Second of all, this timing issue doesn't actually change the amount of raids you do in a week, so I fail to see how it's an issue at all.

    Considering someone else also posted a thread about raids not auto launching, I can guarantee it's not just affecting me specifically. And just because you fail to see how this is an issue, it doesn't mean it isn't one. If this has impacted one guild it can, and will, impact others. I'm trying to help before it becomes a similar problem for other guilds. How about you willingly delay your raids and waste tickets? No? Then it's a problem.

    Explain it then. How does a 6 minute delay actually affect anything? Let's say it launches "on time" and you don't "waste tickets". Do you get to run an extra raid this month as a result? Or does your raid still launch at the end of this raid regardless?

    If I have 135k tickets and the raid doesn't auto launch and I waste 15k tickets, how is that not a problem?

    The raid runs for 3 days and costs 90k tickets. Coincidentally, during the 3 days the raid is running, you earn 90k tickets. So, unless you somehow start only gaining, like, 15k tickets, it won't be a problem, because a raid is always on.
    If other guilds get 6 minute delays regularly and also waste tickets, is that not a problem? Those are tickets that would have granted extra wiggle room with participation, maybe it does eventually equate to an extra raid at some point.

    Regardless, it's something that SHOULDN'T be happening. It's a design oversight that should be reasonably easy to rectify.

    Again, how about you delay your raids by a day and waste tickets? Then keep doing that once for every guild that has the issue. And you'll finally see that a little bit of a problem for lots of people is a problem.

    The 6 minute delay is meaningless for any guild that existed when the raid launched, because you will always simply have enough tickets. Whether you "waste" all 30k or 1k or you timed it differently so you launch before reset and never "waste" any. It's simply never going to be an issue for you guild because, except for those 66 minutes every 3 days, you will always have a raid going.

    You are incredibly wrong and I'm not sure how I can explain it in a more simple way.

    Guild start raid
    Raid not finish and start exact same time, 72 hours later.
    Guild raid timer pushed back
    Raid timer passes daily reset and guild earns 4 days worth of tickets during a 3 day raid window
    Guild has up to 30k earned tickets that get deleted from existence THROUGH NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN.
    Up to 30k tickets could have been used to start a raid sooner down the line when people eventually miss 600 tickets
    Guild shafted

    Let's say you manually start the raid to avoid the 6 minute delay. You drop from 135k tokens to 45k tokens. You do the raid. Raid is over again. Now you're at 135k tokens. You start the raid. You're at 45k tokens. For infinity.

    Let's say you miss it, and it starts "late." You hit 150k tokens. Raid starts, you're at 60k tokens. 3 days later, raid is over. Now you're at 150k tokens. You start the raid. You're at 60k tokens.

    Now, obviously I can see that you have a different amount of tokens at the start and end here. But so what? In both scenarios you will immediately start the raid in perpetuity. Therefore, there is no issue here, and at best this is a minor "flaw" in however CG has this process setup.

    And say you start getting 27k tickets per day.

    150 - 90 = 60
    60 + 81 = 141
    141 - 90 = 51
    51 + 81 = 132
    ...123
    ...114
    ...105
    ...96
    ...87

    Oh wait, I should have 102. And should have been able to raid.

    Have you tried getting 30k tickets every day? Solves your problem pretty quickly.
    LordDirt wrote: »
    Such an easy fix yet so many just ignore it. Shows how some just want to argue and not actually get a solution.

    Sure, they should just get rid of the hour finalizing. Don't need that anymore. Though there may still be a few minutes delay after, so OP would still complain.
  • MaruMaru
    3338 posts Member
    Options
    LordDirt wrote: »
    Such an easy fix yet so many just ignore it. Shows how some just want to argue and not actually get a solution.

    People saying CG shouldn't waste time on a easily fixable bug that hasn't directly impacted them but has and will continue to negatively impact others is one of those glaringly obvious displays of the oh so prevalent, "screw you, I got mine." mentality. It takes no time to deduce that this is an oversight that needs resolved and people still fight against it because it hasn't directly affected them.

    Has a lot to do with hyperbolic word choices you used rather than the bug itself.
  • iMalevolence
    350 posts Member
    edited May 2023
    Options
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    LordDirt wrote: »
    Such an easy fix yet so many just ignore it. Shows how some just want to argue and not actually get a solution.

    People saying CG shouldn't waste time on a easily fixable bug that hasn't directly impacted them but has and will continue to negatively impact others is one of those glaringly obvious displays of the oh so prevalent, "screw you, I got mine." mentality. It takes no time to deduce that this is an oversight that needs resolved and people still fight against it because it hasn't directly affected them.

    Has a lot to do with hyperbolic word choices you used rather than the bug itself.

    I mean, every guild that still has it on a fixed timer is getting behavior that isn't working as intended and it's significantly worse for them.

    Every time it happens and they don't update the launch setting to "immediately" risks another 4 days of tickets in what should be a 3 day raid cycle. We've only been discussing problems with "immediately" being concerned where it is still an issue, but guilds with less active or less knowledgeable officers that don't catch it can be screwed every time it happens. And delayed launches have happened 3 times for my guild, so it's a fairly common thing.

    Raid at 7pm. Tickets at 7:30. Tickets at 7:30. Tickets at 7:30. Raid finalizes at 7:02pm. Guild has enough, but doesn't catch it. Tickets at 7:30, overcapped.

    Raid at 7pm. Tickets at 7:30. Tickets at 7:30. Tickets at 7:30. Raid finalizes at 7:02pm. Guild has enough, but doesn't catch it. Tickets at 7:30, overcapped.

    ...

    This could be a regular occurrence every 4 days for some guilds where they unknowingly suffer because it doesn't work as intended.
  • Options
    StarSon wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    StarSon wrote: »
    This feels like a random edge case affecting you specifically. First of all, rewards timing doesn't really matter anymore. You have a steady income of tokens, use them as needed or save some up for "event locks."

    Second of all, this timing issue doesn't actually change the amount of raids you do in a week, so I fail to see how it's an issue at all.

    Considering someone else also posted a thread about raids not auto launching, I can guarantee it's not just affecting me specifically. And just because you fail to see how this is an issue, it doesn't mean it isn't one. If this has impacted one guild it can, and will, impact others. I'm trying to help before it becomes a similar problem for other guilds. How about you willingly delay your raids and waste tickets? No? Then it's a problem.

    Explain it then. How does a 6 minute delay actually affect anything? Let's say it launches "on time" and you don't "waste tickets". Do you get to run an extra raid this month as a result? Or does your raid still launch at the end of this raid regardless?

    If I have 135k tickets and the raid doesn't auto launch and I waste 15k tickets, how is that not a problem?

    The raid runs for 3 days and costs 90k tickets. Coincidentally, during the 3 days the raid is running, you earn 90k tickets. So, unless you somehow start only gaining, like, 15k tickets, it won't be a problem, because a raid is always on.
    If other guilds get 6 minute delays regularly and also waste tickets, is that not a problem? Those are tickets that would have granted extra wiggle room with participation, maybe it does eventually equate to an extra raid at some point.

    Regardless, it's something that SHOULDN'T be happening. It's a design oversight that should be reasonably easy to rectify.

    Again, how about you delay your raids by a day and waste tickets? Then keep doing that once for every guild that has the issue. And you'll finally see that a little bit of a problem for lots of people is a problem.

    The 6 minute delay is meaningless for any guild that existed when the raid launched, because you will always simply have enough tickets. Whether you "waste" all 30k or 1k or you timed it differently so you launch before reset and never "waste" any. It's simply never going to be an issue for you guild because, except for those 66 minutes every 3 days, you will always have a raid going.

    You are incredibly wrong and I'm not sure how I can explain it in a more simple way.

    Guild start raid
    Raid not finish and start exact same time, 72 hours later.
    Guild raid timer pushed back
    Raid timer passes daily reset and guild earns 4 days worth of tickets during a 3 day raid window
    Guild has up to 30k earned tickets that get deleted from existence THROUGH NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN.
    Up to 30k tickets could have been used to start a raid sooner down the line when people eventually miss 600 tickets
    Guild shafted

    Let's say you manually start the raid to avoid the 6 minute delay. You drop from 135k tokens to 45k tokens. You do the raid. Raid is over again. Now you're at 135k tokens. You start the raid. You're at 45k tokens. For infinity.

    Let's say you miss it, and it starts "late." You hit 150k tokens. Raid starts, you're at 60k tokens. 3 days later, raid is over. Now you're at 150k tokens. You start the raid. You're at 60k tokens.

    Now, obviously I can see that you have a different amount of tokens at the start and end here. But so what? In both scenarios you will immediately start the raid in perpetuity. Therefore, there is no issue here, and at best this is a minor "flaw" in however CG has this process setup.

    And say you start getting 27k tickets per day.

    150 - 90 = 60
    60 + 81 = 141
    141 - 90 = 51
    51 + 81 = 132
    ...123
    ...114
    ...105
    ...96
    ...87

    Oh wait, I should have 102. And should have been able to raid.

    Have you tried getting 30k tickets every day? Solves your problem pretty quickly.
    LordDirt wrote: »
    Such an easy fix yet so many just ignore it. Shows how some just want to argue and not actually get a solution.

    Sure, they should just get rid of the hour finalizing. Don't need that anymore. Though there may still be a few minutes delay after, so OP would still complain.

    Except a constant 30k/day is unrealistic and still doesn't fix the issue.

    But the 30k/day is rich coming from someone who has a lower days in guild and still manages a worse ticket average. Yikes.

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