DEVS -- Proposal to fix GAC Matchmaking

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I thought this was a bug, and posted it incorrectly as such. Since I'm not about to re-write the entire post...



See the attached images...[/bkzp0774uefxz.jpg
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Replies

  • DarthOsenegg
    16 posts Member
    edited May 1
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    Now, assuming you've seen the images, my proposed solution is the following:



    3 layer match making in the following order

    1. Total Galactic Power
    2. Quantity of Galactic Legends (SLKR, Rey, Sith Eternal Emperor, etc)
    3. Current Rank in Grand Arena (Carbonite, Bronze, Aurordium, etc)
    This would ensure that players with similar capabilities are matched for a proper contest of skill, rather than the utter nonsense I shared above (again, view the shared images).
  • DMG_SW
    216 posts Member
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    Go read one of the thousand other posts about this to learn why it happened and why it won't change and why you only harmed yourself by taking your ball and going home.
  • herd_nerfer
    1998 posts Member
    edited May 1
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    Matchmaking is done based on skill rating which is a function of wins vs losses. The people you're facing had to lose enough times for their skill rating to sink low enough to match yours. They're either truly terrible players or they're joining GAC for the participation crystals. This is common - it happens more and more as you climb higher. Enjoy your free wins.

    It's maybe not the most fun way to win a match, but GP based matchmaking is disastrous for the game - It discourages roster investment and conflicts with guild based event objectives, like TB where collective GP means more rewards.
    F2P since the last time I bought Kyros, Crystals, or the Conquest Pass.
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    GP based matchmaking was awful
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    Were you around when matchmaking was decided by gp?
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    You guys read my post right?

    GP would just be one, of 3 checks. I.e. someone with 1M GP would never, ever, match with someone of a significantly higher gp.

    But that's just the first funnel. Seems you aren't paying attention to the other two, each taking place after the previous criteria was met, in order.
  • DarthOsenegg
    16 posts Member
    edited May 2
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    GP Matchmaking alone is garbage.

    Then you also filter even more based on GL. (So if you have 6M GP, and no GL you still won't be matched together)

    And after that, you filter whatever is left yet again based on current rankings.

    Sounds to me like anyone who has an issue with a triple filtration for matchmaking isn't actually interested in a tournament style championship that will involve actual skill, rather than mostly luck.
  • Kaerindal
    124 posts Member
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    GP Matchmaking alone is garbage.

    Then you also filter even more based on GL. (So if you have 6M GP, and no GL you still won't be matched together)

    And after that, you filter whatever is left yet again based on current rankings.

    Sounds to me like anyone who has an issue with a triple filtration for matchmaking isn't actually interested in a tournament style championship that will involve actual skill, rather than mostly luck.
    GP based matchmaking in any form is garbage.

    It incentivizes not unlocking / gearing units youre not going to use in GAC. It actively punishes people that try to help their guilds in TW/TB

    It will not come back, ever.
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    Kaerindal wrote: »
    GP based matchmaking in any form is garbage.

    It incentivizes not unlocking / gearing units youre not going to use in GAC. It actively punishes people that try to help their guilds in TW/TB

    It will not come back, ever.

    @DarthOsenegg Never did any one us suggest GP matchmaking by itself. As he is saying, any matchmaking algorithm that takes into account GP in any form is awful
  • herd_nerfer
    1998 posts Member
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    GP Matchmaking alone is garbage.

    Then you also filter even more based on GL. (So if you have 6M GP, and no GL you still won't be matched together)

    And after that, you filter whatever is left yet again based on current rankings.

    Sounds to me like anyone who has an issue with a triple filtration for matchmaking isn't actually interested in a tournament style championship that will involve actual skill, rather than mostly luck.

    The system we have has its flaws - but it's way better than the system that came before it. Even under your proposed match making method, there is still a compelling reason for people to intentionally suppress the size of their roster which goes counter to the larger themes in the game which is roster building and guild events. Anything that incentivizes people to NOT grow their roster is bad for the game, bad for guilds, and bad for any player that doesn't want to focus solely on PVP.

    I get that it's frustrating to be matched against larger rosters but it happens to everyone and it's just part of the landscape of PVP at this point. As you pack on more GP over time the gap will get smaller.

    My account is 11m GP and I still get matched against rosters bigger than mine - use it as an opportunity to practice counters so that when you do get more even matches, you go in with an edge.
    F2P since the last time I bought Kyros, Crystals, or the Conquest Pass.
  • Miketo28
    209 posts Member
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    There are a thousand threads on this and it is frustrating as the OP is 100% correct. The matchmaking is horrendous. For my main account at 10.3 million GP in kyber 2 I have 0 issues. Every battle is enjoyable / engaging. For my alternate account at 3.3 million GP, GAC is just annoying. I typically win one of three and that win is by my opponent taking a zero. In my alt's last 10 or so matches ai have had one legitimate opponent. For someone new to this game, the GAC experience has to be influencing them to quit the game.

    GP based matchmaking for people under a certain GP and then skill based later on would be my suggestion. You can't attempt Conquest on hard mode until you meet a specified GP. Do something similar with GAC. You play in GAC light until specific conditions are met and then you graduate into skill based matchmaking. Something has to change.
  • StarSon
    7477 posts Member
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    I would agree they need to do something about the lower leagues. Aurodium and Kyber are fine, but the big accounts that fall below that can really ruin someone's week, even if all they do is let their defense ride.
  • DarthOsenegg
    16 posts Member
    edited May 8
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    Yeah, quite frankly I'm at a point where I'm just not going to do GAC at all anymore, until I have at least 4 GL.

    As far as I'm concerned everybody who thinks the system is fine or "better" than before is a fool.

    I'm running my original account, returned after taking a break for a few years and now, I'm screwed over each and every single GAC.

    I just might end up quitting again, since Arena was kind of my thing.
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    Miketo28 wrote: »
    There are a thousand threads on this...

    And before anyone says it... if it was better, or "fine"...


    Then why are there posts, and posts, and even more posts regarding this exact subject?

    Sure don't seem very fine to me...
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    Miketo28 wrote: »
    There are a thousand threads on this...

    And before anyone says it... if it was better, or "fine"...


    Then why are there posts, and posts, and even more posts regarding this exact subject?

    Sure don't seem very fine to me...

    Because many don't understand how it works, plain and simple. For a player to be that low they lost many rounds to get there.

    Also, you should have seen it when everyone was sandbagging their GP (leaving lots of characters at level 1 and not gearing up) those were stupid times in this game. We need that GP for other events like RotE. The system now is much better.......

  • EagleEye
    24 posts Member
    edited May 13
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    @Nameisunavailable

    ixz4kjv80yr6.jpg
    Was my bracket (2024/04/23) and I faced the 3 strongest by GP (all active)

    rkelr94vpwa2.jpg
    This is my actual bracket, won against active 5.8M, 2.4M and now a 870:870 against 4.2M wich will count (if I'm informed correct) as a loose because of my lower GP.
    So there is a small chance to end as 5. of 8 (with 2 Wins and a high banner Draw) because it counts wins and on equal wins from high to low GP.

    There is simply no point for facing people with 3M up to 8M GP if we stay around 1M GP.

    And please understand me correctly.
    I have no problem losing. Not even against stronger players.
    I have a math problem getting started with GAC.

    The only possible way to escape this preponderance of actively played GP is to lose even more often than these players. Getting much stronger is impossible because of Credits, Zetas, Omegas etc.

    But that simply cannot be part or complete of the strategy of the newcomers to the GAC.
    Post edited by EagleEye on
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    Also, you should have seen it when everyone was sandbagging their GP (leaving lots of characters at level 1 and not gearing up) those were stupid times in this game. We need that GP for other events like RotE. The system now is much better.......

    Today, that is a rather ignorant statement. Specially because of events such as Rise of the Empire, Territory War, Galactic Conquest, Proving Grounds, GL Journies etc. whether you want to or not you need to grow your roster.
    Back then, when this game still lacked content you might have had a point, but today that is 100% irrelevant.

    If they implemented a triple filtration for GAC you'd see more people interested- why?
    Simply put... competitive players absolutely detest SBMM, and there are some games that nearly died because of it - and the only way those games survived, was by removing SBMM and return to actually filtering contestants the right way which involved actually having skill in matches.
  • herd_nerfer
    1998 posts Member
    Options
    Also, you should have seen it when everyone was sandbagging their GP (leaving lots of characters at level 1 and not gearing up) those were stupid times in this game. We need that GP for other events like RotE. The system now is much better.......

    Today, that is a rather ignorant statement. Specially because of events such as Rise of the Empire, Territory War, Galactic Conquest, Proving Grounds, GL Journies etc. whether you want to or not you need to grow your roster.
    Back then, when this game still lacked content you might have had a point, but today that is 100% irrelevant.

    If they implemented a triple filtration for GAC you'd see more people interested- why?
    Simply put... competitive players absolutely detest SBMM, and there are some games that nearly died because of it - and the only way those games survived, was by removing SBMM and return to actually filtering contestants the right way which involved actually having skill in matches.

    Do you have any suggestions for a matchmaking system that doesn't respect GP AT ALL? Because ultimately that's the problem, and will always be a problem when used as a criteria for match making.

    GP based match making means people build rosters JUST for PVP - which gives them an unfair advantage over anyone that wants to do more than PVP - essentially punishing players for playing the rest of the game. Having multiple tiers of 'filtration' as you've described will not change this - any time GP is a component of match making people will manipulate their GP to get an advantage. This is a fact - we've already seen it.

    Skill based match making according to you is detested by "competitive" players - though I'm not convinced you're really able to speak on behalf of all competitive players, we'll assume you do for the sake of the conversation. You're making a case that this is fact - so let's assume for a moment that it is.

    So if those two options are out, what are we left with? How do you do match making without a skill rating AND without respecting GP?

    This debate has occurred many times at this point and I've never seen anyone present a solution that wasn't a variation of one or the other. Both sides have reasonable arguments but the conversation always ends up in the same place.
    F2P since the last time I bought Kyros, Crystals, or the Conquest Pass.
  • Notthatguyfrombefore
    1099 posts Member
    edited May 13
    Options
    Also, you should have seen it when everyone was sandbagging their GP (leaving lots of characters at level 1 and not gearing up) those were stupid times in this game. We need that GP for other events like RotE. The system now is much better.......

    Today, that is a rather ignorant statement. Specially because of events such as Rise of the Empire, Territory War, Galactic Conquest, Proving Grounds, GL Journies etc. whether you want to or not you need to grow your roster.
    Back then, when this game still lacked content you might have had a point, but today that is 100% irrelevant.

    I mean, this is just patently untrue. When they introduced the current system there were already GLs, we already had TBs where more GP was better for deployment, and where more GP allowed you to enter higher brackets for TW. Pretty sure conquests existed too, but I can’t say for certain as I don’t just want to make things up.


    During the era of GP bracketed matchmaking there was a lot of content, much of which rewarded more GP, and yet the problem of lean rosters persisted. It was utterly counter-intuitive and counterproductive to many areas of the game. Removing GP brackets allowed players to invest in worthless GP, not needed in any game mode.

    Personally I grew by about 25%, around 1m GP, immediately when they announced the change. That constituted taking ships and characters to lvl 85 and gear lvl7, applying so many abilities that don’t need zetas or omegas. These are for toons and ships I’ve not used since and have no purpose in my roster. Those lvl85, gear 7 toons don’t get used in TB, don’t get set on defence in TW or even leave the bench for conquest. If it wasn’t for the removal of GP for GAC they would still be lvl1 and g1. The benefit was it allowed players to boost their GP benefiting several game modes without affecting GAC. Overnight guilds could do more in TB, and would be in higher brackets for TW with no downside to the rest of the game. Suggesting that reimplementing GP to matchmaking would have no negative effect on all other ares of the game is naive at best, and disingenuous otherwise.
    Account started June 2020. 100% FTP. 8.2m GP. JMK, JML, SLKR, and SEE. Exe and Levi. Ally code 117-269-921. Swgoh.gg
  • Options
    Today, that is a rather ignorant statement. Specially because of events such as Rise of the Empire, Territory War, Galactic Conquest, Proving Grounds, GL Journies etc. whether you want to or not you need to grow your roster.
    Back then, when this game still lacked content you might have had a point, but today that is 100% irrelevant.

    If they implemented a triple filtration for GAC you'd see more people interested- why?
    Simply put... competitive players absolutely detest SBMM, and there are some games that nearly died because of it - and the only way those games survived, was by removing SBMM and return to actually filtering contestants the right way which involved actually having skill in matches.

    I’m pretty competitive and I don’t detest skill-based matchmaking… why would I?
  • EagleEye
    24 posts Member
    edited May 13
    Options
    Also, you should have seen it when everyone was sandbagging their GP (leaving lots of characters at level 1 and not gearing up) those were stupid times in this game. We need that GP for other events like RotE. The system now is much better.......
    Do you have any suggestions for a matchmaking system that doesn't respect GP AT ALL? Because ultimately that's the problem, and will always be a problem when used as a criteria for match making.

    GP based match making means people build rosters JUST for PVP - which gives them an unfair advantage over anyone that wants to do more than PVP - essentially punishing players for playing the rest of the game. Having multiple tiers of 'filtration' as you've described will not change this - any time GP is a component of match making people will manipulate their GP to get an advantage. This is a fact - we've already seen it.

    As far as I can see the problem, it mainly affects the carbonite area.

    As a solution I would move everything over 4M GP to Bronzium and make Carbonite completely GP based.
    This gives you a reasonable start to the GAC and with more GP you rise and fall between Carbonite and Bronzium until you stay at least in Bronzium from 4M GP.
    Post edited by EagleEye on
  • herd_nerfer
    1998 posts Member
    edited May 13
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    That's... not my quote.
    F2P since the last time I bought Kyros, Crystals, or the Conquest Pass.
  • EagleEye
    24 posts Member
    edited May 13
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    Only missed one close for a quote...sorry

    5idz5qu6x1a8.jpg
    And I would abolish this stupid higher GP win on a draw (if it was a real fight and not only 10 banner each with loot for both like a win). 3 points a win, 1 point a draw, 0 points a loose.
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    So if those two options are out, what are we left with? How do you do match making without a skill rating AND without respecting GP?

    If for whatever reason the majority of players don't want a GP filter as part of Matchmaking, and you abolish the sbmm which would be a godsend for many players...
    Then at that point what's left is
    1. How many GL are in the roster (which should definitely be part of Matchmaking regardless of method imo
    2. Total count of units at G13/R0 or higher

    The latter would still serve to even things out, so you're not facing opponents with 3-5x the offensive capability.

    I'm in bronze 1, and for the past 45 days I've been screwed at least 2/3 matches each and every single time, and I've now permanently quit GA altogether.

    I absolutely 100% refuse to participate in an event, knowing well in advance I have little to no charge of winning unless my opponent is Inactive.
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    Adding to this just to give you an idea; I don't plan on returning to GA until I have at the very least 4 GL in total.

    That's how bad it is, even in bronze 1
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    Not to mention...

    When this happens despite using your only Galactic Legend on defense, on a regular basis, it's a good sign that there's some serious **** going on d9hjz2s6p4wl.jpg
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    Adding to this just to give you an idea; I don't plan on returning to GA until I have at the very least 4 GL in total.

    That's how bad it is, even in bronze 1

    That’s your prerogative but just so you are aware you’d be losing out on crystals if you don’t do just one battle per round
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    Adding to this just to give you an idea; I don't plan on returning to GA until I have at the very least 4 GL in total.

    That's how bad it is, even in bronze 1

    I've got an account with 3 GLs that sits comfortably in kyber 3 with minimal effort on my part. The account has most of the other tools though, like starkiller, aphra etc.

    Not entering GAC just slows you down. There are rewards for 8th place, and there are crystals for losses, and participation. You're not proving anything to cg, you're not having a voice heard about it. You're just missing out.

    The only thing wrong with the current system is players who are not trying. There have been floors and basement leagues suggested for this. MM where items in the roster are factors discourage getting those items. A game developer whose model is people collecting as much as they can will never want to discourage collecting.

    They are not going to go back to a collection based mm system. Thankfully.

    Beyond what others have mentioned, collecting anything was horrible if you didn't want to ruin your matches for months. If you leveled and geared one toon at a time towards a GL, matches would get worse and worse, with often no real benefit to your roster, then finally the GL, then guess what? Just back to even, no better than you were before. So the solution was hoard gear, then level+gear every part of a GL's requirements all at once, then rush the ticket farm as hard as you could. Maybe you could limit the bad matches to one round or two.

    It was horrible. No advancement in the collection for months at a time.

    Please, no return to those dark times.
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    I've got an account with 3 GLs that sits comfortably in kyber 3 with minimal effort on my part. The account has most of the other tools though, like starkiller, aphra etc.

    Not entering GAC just slows you down. There are rewards for 8th place, and there are crystals for losses, and participation. You're not proving anything to cg, you're not having a voice heard about it. You're just missing out.

    The only thing wrong with the current system is players who are not trying. There have been floors and basement leagues suggested for this. MM where items in the roster are factors discourage getting those items. A game developer whose model is people collecting as much as they can will never want to discourage collecting.

    They are not going to go back to a collection based mm system. Thankfully.

    Beyond what others have mentioned, collecting anything was horrible if you didn't want to ruin your matches for months. If you leveled and geared one toon at a time towards a GL, matches would get worse and worse, with often no real benefit to your roster, then finally the GL, then guess what? Just back to even, no better than you were before. So the solution was hoard gear, then level+gear every part of a GL's requirements all at once, then rush the ticket farm as hard as you could. Maybe you could limit the bad matches to one round or two.

    It was horrible. No advancement in the collection for months at a time.

    Please, no return to those dark times.

    The issue with floors or basement leagues is that it would suppress the upward motion of newer accounts, unless CG were to increase the total crystals moving into the game through GAC. This is because for every one player who gets stuck in a league by floor, or basement league, that means one more player can’t then move up to take their place.

    What we have right now is, arguably, the most benefit system for newer players, with no theoretical limit on how high they can climb. Obviously that’s limited overall by the fact that other players are also improving their rosters at similar rates, but that’s just the reality of a game that’s more than half a decade in age.
    Account started June 2020. 100% FTP. 8.2m GP. JMK, JML, SLKR, and SEE. Exe and Levi. Ally code 117-269-921. Swgoh.gg
  • Lumiya
    1521 posts Member
    Options
    First of all I would like to say that I am not advocating for the old system, so do not take my words as an assumption that I would like to have it back
    ... but, even when people played and used the old system I have never encountered such huge mismatches than I and others have now. The discrepancy maybe was there but not as much as it is now. Millions of GP difference just didn't exist. While I understand why many disliked the old system (and why CG got rid of it) I am wondering how people can think this is better, when in the end the mismatches are now even a lot bigger because the GP differences are a lot higher than in the old system. (And yes, I do know that GP is not everything that makes a good roster, but with several Million difference it is quite certain that the bigger roster has an (huge) advantage.

    Please let me make clear that where I stand now in the game, I accept it as it is but I do not think that it is good.

    There is way too much that takes away the fun and leaves newer/smaller players thrown to the wolves (and not so seldom even bigger players).

    I do believe CG should change something, to make the experience better for everyone, especially because crystals are bound to GAC. There were lots of great ideas floating around the forums CG could take into consideration(or come up with their own).



    We are all made of star-stuff
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