Zeta Economy in 2024
I’d love a discussion about the Zeta economy in 2024.
It seems to have turned into the next gear crunch!
The game is so much more complex than when Zetas were first introduced, and with many more characters, all requiring multiple Zetas.
Looking at this calendar year alone, Gungans and Jar Jar +8 zetas, STAP +1, Amidala, with new Qui Gon and Obi +4
13 full zetas in just a few months, 260 pieces.
Everyone I know in my guild is struggling to keep up.
My suggestion would be to put another tier on the omega material events when they pop up, as we’ve seen with GL Leia adding a tier onto Endor Escalation.
Let’s have a healthy discussion 😇
It seems to have turned into the next gear crunch!
The game is so much more complex than when Zetas were first introduced, and with many more characters, all requiring multiple Zetas.
Looking at this calendar year alone, Gungans and Jar Jar +8 zetas, STAP +1, Amidala, with new Qui Gon and Obi +4
13 full zetas in just a few months, 260 pieces.
Everyone I know in my guild is struggling to keep up.
My suggestion would be to put another tier on the omega material events when they pop up, as we’ve seen with GL Leia adding a tier onto Endor Escalation.
Let’s have a healthy discussion 😇
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I did an analysis after others provided input on exactly how many zetas were required per year. Then I provided alternative recommendations depending on CG's goals. The easiest fix was just to stop requiring quite so many zetas per toon -- pick an annual budget and stick with it.
In the recent past it's been pretty common to have 3 zetas on a single toon. Lately other than JarJar no one has required more than 2 and most have required only 1. Those 260 mats required were over a period of 4 months, with end game players easily exceeding 60 mats per month, and thus even the busy pace of the last little bit has been sustainable for end game players. If you're maxing out zeta income, you're even increasing your cache lately.
In other words, I think that they are addressing this. Since the last discussion they also started offering zetas as bonus drops instead of bonus shards for people who have already collected 330 shards of the character that is being offered as bonus shards. It's not that many extra zeta mats per year, but between that and slowing down a bit on the requirements, I think we're actually in a decent place now.
None of this means that it's easy or fun for newer and mid-game players. The zeta crunch there is very real. But in general, I think they're creating an economy that allows you to not only keep up, but catch up with prior passed-over zetas once you're in a strong place in your fleet shard and doing well in your Assault Battles.
Eventually they'll probably adjust things so that the zeta income increases. There was a purple-mat shortage for a while back in 2016 after all. But right now just making sure that the total zeta budget doesn't outpace income is keeping any resulting issues from becoming worse.
We'll see how things go, but I'm okay with where we're at right now.
-1-2 more Zetas/Omegas to events like Endor Escalation and Defense of Dathomir, or Assault Battles
-Reduced cost or increased quantity in the Guild Activity Store under Raid MK3 tokens. Currently it's at 1175 MK3 for just 1 piece, not even a full ability.
-and maybe just plain bonus drop events would be great, without requiring a 7-star of a newer character.
---Notes/Math---
To hopefully help CG understand new or returning players' plight, most are lucky to farm about 4 full Zetas a month, with 344 already in game and more on the way since every new character demands Zetas.
Just basic math, but 344 currently available Zetas divided by 4 obtainable Zetas per month = 86 months or 7+ years.
This math isn't considering new Zetas as they are released but not withstanding no longer used Zetas (like GMY lead)... so let's just call it about 7 years, which is quite a long time for even a resource management game on just 1 resource that, let's face it, is not even the top tier ability material. It's crazy that Omicrons are easier to get and available in more in-game Stores/Shipments.
Hopefully CG can cook up some kind of catch-up mechanic to the new/returning players who need Zetas the most because currently this crunch is quite demotivating.
https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/266252/cg-could-you-look-at-your-zeta-economy/p1
I have personally noticed changes since then, positive changes, so they are listening.
When zeta came out they where in short supply.
Why would omi be any different?
I may be forgetting other sources but that equals out to 85.5 zeta materials as a reasonable average per month, or roughly 4 1/4 full zetas per month.
In that time we've had 7 marquees release, 1 journey character, and 2 Conquest characters [Queen Amidala being the second], for a total of 15 zetas released since January.
The average late game player will have gotten roughly 427 zeta materials in that time, or 21 complete zetas.
Note: This does not include the two zeta events we've gotten [one that we have gotten already and was relatively easy to participate in, and one that is upcoming, and relatively difficult to participate in]
1. You say "Territory Battles" when you mean "Territory Wars".
2. CG manipulates rankings to force an overall average of 50% wins 50% losses in TW. You can't say that the "average" is more wins than losses since there is a win for every loss.
3. The same is true of GAC. You can't have the "average" finish be 3rd when there are 8 participants. "Average" finish would alternate between finishing 2-4 and finishing 5-7.
4. No one is perfect. You're going to go on vacation or something and miss some. So whatever estimate we come up with as average if you participate in everything will be cut by 3 or 5% or something. I don't know what the average is for missing events, but 2 weeks of actual vacation per year is 1/26 = a little over 3%. So once you fix the above problems with TW and GAC finishes, you probably want to multiple your total by 0.95 to 0.97, whatever you think is reasonable.
The final income total is still significantly greater than outflow total for the last few months, I just want the "average" to be more accurate. We're all a little obsessive if we play a single game for years like this, but even among SWGOH players you can't "average" being present for every single event for a year.
And, finally, I will say what I have said many times. You can't judge whether the economy for some resource is good or bad by comparing income to new toon requirements.
Whether an economy is working properly depends on the goals. The carbanti economy is fine, because the raid gives you the opportunity to bathe in carbantis like Scrooge McDuck in his gold. Meanwhile the Omicron economy is also fine even though you're not getting nearly enough to place all Omicrons in the game. The different resources serve different purposes and it's fine that they are at different levels of scarcity.
The real question here isn't whether the absolute income total is X or Y. The real question here is, "In a world with Omicrons, should zeta mats continue to be as scarce as they were a year or two ago?"
This is an opinion question, rather than a maths question. Omegas have been trivial for me for ages and ages and ages, though I'm sure they're still a limiting factor for players in the first couple years of the game. Should zetas be like Omegas when Zetas were Queen? Or should they be more rare than that? How often should a player have to let a Zeta ability go unfilled?
Note, too, that since the last time we had a significant discussion about this CG has both introduced a higher % of toons that require only one zeta and also introduced the idea of bonus zeta mats for players who have 330 shards of a character currently in bonus drops.
For about a year we went through a period where my total zeta stash dropped, year-on-year. Then we had this conversation last fall and my total zeta stash has increased by about 300 since then, even though I place every zeta on every new toon as soon as it hits 7 stars (and sometimes earlier). My zeta placement strategy hasn't changed, but the economy is already different this year than it was last year.
I don't say that to claim that concerns about zeta economy are unfounded. I'm a late game player and I don't really have to go back and place Zetas on old toons anymore unless I really feel like upgrading one of the lesser pilots or something. For people who are trying to get the newly released toons designed for the upcoming raid AND continue to bring up older but still relevant squads like Sith Empire, the zeta crunch is real. Midgame is actually the worst time for zetas because you face opponents and PvE content that are using zetas against you, but you don't have all the zetas one might expect on your own squads.
But even in midgame where things feel terrible and success rides on the placement of just one or two more zetas, whether or not the zeta economy is fine is still an opinion.
We convinced CG to loosen the economy a bit last fall. I don't expect them to loosen it up too much again so soon, but at some point I'm sure it will.
But what will convince them is not data about zeta income. They already have that. If you want to convince them you'll have to marshal arguments about the role you think zetas play in the game vs. the role you think they should play in the game, and ultimately convince CG that zetas should no longer be a bottleneck.
I'm not convinced that they shouldn't be a midgame bottleneck. I'm willing to listen and learn from early/midgame players, but I'm not currently convinced. Omicrons are still rare, especially for early and midgame players. Zetas still make huge differences in outcomes, and so placing them should still be significant -- in my opinion. Just as we ultimately get all the credits we need, even though credits serve as a major limiting factor in early game progression, I think zetas over the last 6 months have been fine.
1. You're right, I was distracted and wrote the wrong one down.
2. You're also right, but also wrong at the same time. I actually accounted for 75% losses and 25% wins on purpose as a conservative average [so it would actually be +1]
3. The average finish of "2-4" is irrelevant when finishing 2nd gives you the same rewards as finishing 4th. Which, in a pool of 8 places, I picked 2-4 because it holds the 4th rank [exact middle]. There is obviously way more to it than that, and we can talk about the dynamics of going 5/4, or 4/5. . or going 6/3 or 3/6, but overall you're going to get roughly 5.
4. No, nobody is perfect, but I can't account for every single player. Regardless, even on vacation the majority of zeta producing events can be done within just a few minutes [Hell, I did all my dailies on my wedding day. . .Because it took me roughly 8 minutes, even with data tracking - But of course I'm not going to do any time consuming activities on a day like that]. In regards to something like TW, most guilds will make allowance for "setting just a strong defense" for rare misses that might happen. . And in GAC, as you pointed out with the 50% average, if you so much as join, do 1 single battle for 10 banners and lose all your matches. . .It'll even out in the end when your score drops.
Regardless, I'm not saying this is the best way to track the economy. I was just using the metrics being talked about by other posters, to show that even with the influx of new characters, the typical higher end player [the people who are going to be most concerned about the newest toys] will actually still be in a zeta surplus.
Edit: I have missed a lot of tw cause I think it is dumb
Absolutely. I appreciate your work.
This is the key phrase here: "In a world with Omicrons, should zeta mats continue to be as scarce as they were a year or two ago?"
I did a breakdown a few months ago based on the average Zeta income, with a split of 50% TW and 50% GAC wins, all the events, monthly calendars, etc. I updated it to consider the currently released characters as of May 2024, including the 344 Zetas, as well as the pace of released characters. Here's the update:
Not withstanding any future characters, the current rate at which you can unlock all of the current Zetas for early-to-mid game players is an estimated December 2030 if you were to start today and hope that the pace of future characters doesn't outpace your Zeta needs. And let's say you are mid-game and have half of the available Zetas already, it would still take you through most of 2027.
Essentially, if you are an early game player, good luck ever catching up, and if you are mid-game, it'll take the better part of a decade. This is, again, for a resource that is outdated by comparison to Omicrons and not as game-changing.
To summarize, the Zeta economy is fine for late-to-end game players based on the schedule of 1-2 new characters per month, but anyone starting the game or playing midway through is going to significantly struggle. If CG wants to retain new or returning players who came back with LSB or the new ads (Target, Raid, etc), then they should hopefully consider easing some of this for the early-to-mid game in a way that it doesn't affect the pacing for future characters.
Solution: Adding my suggestion to remedy this, I think MK3 raid tokens are a good way of fixing this. The current MK3 price of 1175 for 1 ability zeta material is really overpriced, but if this price were reduced or more Zetas given for the 1175 price point, it gives players the option of buying what they need with the limited raid currency. This would, of course, be at the cost of being able to buy R8-9 relic materials with MK3. CG can also consider increasing Zeta drops in existing events, such as adding +1 Zeta to Omega Battle events (even update and rename them as Zeta Battles).
Side Note: Omegas are also somewhat scarce for the early-to-mid game. There is the option of purchasing 5 Omegas at 875 MK1 Raid currency in the weekly shipments, but CG may want to consider increasing this in order to match the existing Omegas needed (since every Omicron/Zeta also needs them, too).
Edited Note: also consider that not every early game player can complete all 7 Assault Battles or even rank that high in Fleet/GAC. So there is a time delay until you can start expecting 4 full Zeta ability unlocks per month.
The real issue is more understanding of how hard a pinch that Zetas are for new or returning players in the early-to-mid game, so much so that it seems to be a monthly topic on the forums.
Luckily, there are remedies and CG does seem to listen, especially since we have gotten Zeta drop events lately. They can also even monetize it, add in a LSB-Zeta pack with the release of any future LSB's (just as an example).
I think this is an excellent argument to loosen the zeta flow eventually, and I think that they'll need to loosen more the longer they wait to make the change.
Now I also think it's fair to note that a lot of zetas just aren't worth the mats at this point. I could place any zeta I want, and there are still a number I haven't bothered with. I've currently placed 295 out of that 344, says SWGOH anyway. That's 6 out of 7. But I also haven't placed any on Queen Amidala yet (I will at some point today so I can have her for GAC starting tomorrow, but I haven't yet) or Bo or JarJar (toons I don't have. On the other hand, perhaps there are some zetas that I did place at one time which I would no longer choose (leadership abilities that aren't used now that there's a better leader for the squad, etc.). Somewhere between 10% and 20%, then are zetas that I don't consider worth it.
This cuts down a bit of time, but going from 2033 to 2031 isn't a huge change in outlook for most people. I don't know what the attrition rate is, but of those players who reach level 85 (so not counting the downloads of people who play a couple days and decide they don't like it), even the vast majority of those people who begin the game dedicated are going to quit before 7 years.
As I say so often, the "catching up" concept isn't about "catching up" to current end-game players. Instead it's about "catching up" to the content that's hot & fresh now. The cool new things are what CG promises to new players to get them interested. So what you want is a system where new players today can expect to get to play and have reasonable rates of success at the new content today. Zeffo, Mandalore, having a 7* Reva, maxing out a Leia run on the Speeder Bike raid, defeating the JarJar event and taking him to relics -- these are all things that new players who just hit level 85 today should be able to experience before they eventually stop playing.
So what does a roster today look like for players who either have JarJar or are focussing on him? It includes a LOT of zetas.
I don't have the data, but whatever the expected lifespan of a brand new level 85 player, they should probably collect enough mats for 200+ full zetas (maybe as many as 280) before they retire.
Wholeheartedly agree, @MasterSeedy.
The catch-up should be based upon the content in the adverts. If you see Swgoh in IoS/Google Play Store, it markets the Mandos and new Gungan Raid. You can even see in some YouTube ads about the new Swgoh content from Ep 1 Phantom Menace. This is what new/returning players are also seeing and likely want to play.
With that said, all the new teams are very Zeta intensive. Old teams, not so much.
And I agree with you, Seedy that not every character needs their Zetas. Like say GMY lead is outdated after the HSTR/CPIT raids transitioned to Krayt. Visas and others have such highly situational Zetas that they're not relevant anymore, either. So you can probably discount about 25% or so of the currently available 344 Zetas.
I’m okay with this too. I think it’s just unrealistic to look at how long it would take to get 349 zetas. After 7 years I don’t have that so why should a new player expect or even want any of the 47 zetas I don’t have. Or for that matter, the 30-50 zetas I do have that never get used.
It’s reasonable to want zetas to come in faster but these threads always ignore basic reality. There is only so fast you can build teams. Any part you mess with in terms of building a team will have a negative effect on the areas untouched. Your mods will be poorer, your gear will be poorer or you’ll lack omicrons in comparison to the players you “caught up to.”
Totally understandable and a solid point with how reasonable it is to raise a team.
The big issue with Zetas is how other areas were eased to allow catch-up but Zetas weren't:
1) Mods: the mod challenge battles were reworked a year or 2 ago to allow 5-dot farming to be consistently easier since the tier 3 battle no longer drops 3-4 dot. Mods, because of that, can be acquired and upgraded easier than Zetas can be obtained.
2) Core gear: Raid rework with Krayt allowed Carbanti, Stuncuff and other core gear worries to subside. There is still a crunch in early game, but it is remedied with time and the ability to acquire core gear much easier than before.
3) Omicrons were recently allowed to be acquired with Galactic Legend and TW MK3 tokens from ROTE. Yes, it's still a crunch but Omicrons are the premiere ability material. Omicrons should be harder to obtain than Zetas.
The Zeta issue plainly affects many, from the early-to-mid, and even some in the early late game. If we consider only new teams, then no it's not an issue. But I think a consideration should be made to the struggle of non-endgame players as they return or start to play Swgoh.
They’ve recently added events that dropped zetas if you qualify (personally I netted 4 full zetas out of the two events I had the qualifying character) Inquisitor AB wasn’t released until 6/2022 (you used 1-2 years for mod easing so I feel comfortable including this). To suggest the zeta economy has remained static just isn’t true.
Do enough new or mid game accounts receive help? Probably not, but cg seems to prefer the minor boosts.
Agreed.
And I don't even think that's a bad approach. You can't give a whole bunch of new sources of zetas and then later take them back. People would riot. Honestly I think the temp zeta events are mostly good, except that on average they benefit the zeta-wealthy more than they benefit the zeta-poor.
I don't have an easy answer to the problem, so it's not surprising that CG doesn't either. In the absence of that, tinkering is more wise than a sea change (into something rich).
For late-to-end game players, the May/June events are for Zetas. For the early-to-mid game, they're a Shard drop event.
Does this encourage new team farming? Absolutely.
Does it help newer players with Zetas? Not necessarily.
To that end, Seedy is both wise and accurate in saying there's unfortunately no easy answer to the Zeta economy. Best I can offer is some math and mediocre solutions.
I will, however, say that OP's initial suggestion for a Zeta tier to the Omega Battles is a decent idea.
Another thing is giving a couple extra with each TB, but only to Hoth & Geonosis. (Hoth could add maybe 2 mats per TB, Geonosis could add more like 6.)
There's no reason this couldn't work. If you get 12 from 2xGeoTB and 8-10 from 1x Conquest (Normal), that means that the people who are on the cusp of moving up to Hard conquest would gain 1 full zeta a month, well, really 1 full one every 4 weeks. 13-14 per year (at most).
Here's some musing that you don't really need to read if you're not interested, but it develops the ideas that I later summarize:
Likewise, a few extra zetas from lower-level TBs is not enough to make up for Reva shards and everything else you can get when you move up to RotE. And again, if they have to balance it, just throw in a single signal data of each type. Where I am in the game one more hard signal data is definitely worth multiple zeta mats.
Also with their data, they can pick exactly the star-level that you need to achieve to get the new zeta rewards.
For Hoth, pick a star count that 80% or 90% of guilds who play Hoth achieve when they do. Add 1 zeta mat there. Then add another at the star-count level achieved by only the top 30-35% of guilds. So 2 more zeta mats per TB, but only if you're performing well and nearing the level of play where guilds stop getting better at Hoth and instead jump to Geonosis.
For Geonosis, add 2 zeta mats to the lowest prize boxes, yes even a single star, so that you never risk losing zeta mats by bumping up to Geo from Hoth. Then pick 4 choke points and add 1 zeta mat at each of those star counts for a total of 6 extra zeta mats for the top 30-35% of guilds, 5 zeta mats for those who finish 10-15 percentile points below that star value.
RotE doesn't need anything added to make up for fewer zetas. Remember that the people who are playing Geonosis TB and Normal Conquest aren't actually beating all the Assault Battles. They'll have roster holes and without my proposed changes they won't be collecting quite as many zeta mats as end game players. It will actually be rare (but possible) that someone in the midgame scoops up more zetas in a month than someone at the endgame. Instead it will simply mean that the midgame folks reach end-game income levels much sooner.
So this is the list of proposed additions:
That gives end game players +10 signal data per 4 weeks, divided +3/+3/+4. That's +52 hard SD per year. It's not much, but it's enough to take a single r7 toon to r8 without farming any SD (you'll still need the relic mats).
For the early part of Midgame (just because you've started Hard Conquest doesn't mean you're anywhere near Endgame these days), you're adding +10 to +22 zeta mats/4-weeks. That's 130-280 mats/year or 6.5 to 14 zetas per year during that 1-2 years of that awkward stage.
More noodling:
Okay, this seems very fair and doesn't appear to threaten any of the resource economies. It just allows mid-game players to get end-game zeta income earlier on. If there's a drop off in zeta income at all as people move up to RotE and Hard Conquest, it's adequately compensated AND it should come at a time when the player is gaining more zeta income by increasing the number of Assault Battle ready factions they have.
Anyone else have any thoughts or critiques? If you like this post, please upvote or reply with your approval. Suggestions are welcome if you don't think it's quite right yet.
I really like that Conquest idea, because you're right that there's an awkward stage in the midgame before you start maximizing the Zeta mats per month.
Conquest Hard is always 5 Zetas, and Conquest Normal is 1-5 Zetas. If they increase Zetas at the cost of Conquest toons, this is a win for the midgame who otherwise likely won't be farming the latest Conquest toon.
Throwing in a few Zetas for LS/DS Geo & Hoth also targets those in the early-to-mid, but would need data on that because it seems most Guilds just propel themselves to ROTE nowadays (I could be wrong).
Either way there's some great ideas here for CG to consider
-Monthly Event: CG could add say a monthly Zeta event just like Jabba's Smuggler's Run II, but tied to Gungans. It does benefit the late game initially, but incentivizes the midgame players to build those new teams which are being actively advertised.
-Lower Raids: Add 1-2 Zetas to the lower gear Raids like Sith Triumverate, Rancor & Tank
-LSB Monetization: sell a LSB companion pack of equivalent value with the prerequisite that you had to purchase one of the current LSB. Example: If you bought a $14.99 Nightsister LSB, it opens you up to a $14.99 LSB Zeta that gives like 100 Omegas/Zetas (enough for 5 full Zetas).
Setting aside ideas for a moment, I think the key takeaway & advice for early-to-mid game is to prioritize a farm path that maximizes Zeta payouts asap. Farm up those Fleets, Assault Battle teams, and focus on 4m GP to start Hard Conquest because even the lowest Hard crate is better than the best Normal crate.