This is one of the features most players have asked for from the beginning - F2P, P2P, and P2W alike. Please take heed that this is important to the community as a whole, and make sure that it is accessible for the whole community.
These are good points. With the data mined info about the requirements to complete guild dailies it will FORCE players to use crystals on numerous energy refreshes, likely that will be blown on basic low level nodes costing 6-energy and taking away from the already tedious gear grind. Eventually to be able to stay in a guild that is even mildly competitive the crystals required will supersede the amount of crystals we can actually gain and be either forced to pay you for more crystals or have to leave the guild because we aren't contributing enough.
As is mentioned here, I hope the impact of crystals in guild activities is being thoroughly thought through or will force a lot of f2p players to not be even remotely competitive and in turn make the whales spend less money because they don't need to to remain on top.
You're introducing a new predator to an already unstable ecosystem, I hope it doesn't make it unsustainable!
New features such as guild and raid should be open to everyone, especially to newcomers and F2P'ers, not going exclusive only to those who have. Thnx Balaxxe for opening up this conversation.
I've spent a reasonable amount on this game. Whether that makes me a whale or not is debatable I suppose.
I haven't and won't spend another dollar on this game since the last patch and am waiting to see how guilds shake out. If it is a money grab for a buggy unfinished product, I'm out.
If this next update is smooth and great, you have me back. But if this is another ploy to empty my pockets for little to no substance, goodbye SWGOH.
I believe the guild access should be provided to all who wish to gather the players and participate. How much those players are rewarded should be based on their team strength, ingenuity, and persistence toward a common goal; NOT how many times they pay to refresh as a group. I would hate to see this feature become "whale team A" vs. "whale team B". It would be a mistake with galactic consequences.
As a F2P player, I am looking forward to enjoy the guild system and to take part in the raids, and I hope that crystals are not required or essential to be able to experience the guild system. If this feature is introduced and balanced corectly it will surely provide longevity to the game and also convince people like me to spend money and support this amazing game.
Agreed, I hope that the guild dailies and currency/prize exchange will be changed to a more reasonable level.
After reading the datamined info, it seems that Tuesday is the only day in which (assuming all members are active) can be reasonably done.
The LS/DS battles ARE feasible, but with 50 members, tier 3 seems to be the highest a normal f2p (I'll define it as 2 x 50 normal energy) and thats assuming every is using an average of 8 energy each.
Wednesday HM battles, tier 5 appears to be feasible if everyone runs HM at 12 energy each (and that will never be the case).
Thursdays, I have no idea how we can each do 11-12 challenges each (perhaps counting the credit droids/training droids challenges), so can't really comment on this.
Saturdays will only apply to probably high ranked arena players fighting for top 10 and it's very unlikely that each member is that highly ranked. Perhaps this can be lowered, so that it will encourage activity instead; i.e. 250 battles for tier 7.
Sunday, compared to LS/DS/HM battles, this seems more reasonable allowing f2p/semi-p2p (1 cantina refresh) guilds to reach tier 5 if all members farmed at an average of 8 energy per node.
Of course, that said, these are all just ballpark guesses;
TL:DR
- Lower the tiers levels, some dailies seem reasonably fair for f2p (cantina, gw, arena), but some feel pretty ridiculous (LS/DS/HM)
- If tiers are not lowered, then hopefully the tier to currency ratio won't give too much of an advantage for whale guilds
It would be pretty terrible if we forced to either pay crystals for something buggy or to study competitive, I could only imagine that there would be a large drop in users if f2p players were left behind because we chose not to p2w in a game that we obviously love
I think the reasonable thing to do is give guilds a week after go-live for initial issues and hotfixes. My main issue with the last update was the challenge difficulty and that got sorted. The rest of the update is now bedded in largely - health bar issues and perceived nerfs aside. If we can all avoid rage quitting for a week and give early adopter volume testing and measured feedback the end result will likely be better for all.
I agree with @Balaxxe. I had spent moderately on this game, some vault purchases. But to consider everyone paying in a guild to get top tier rewards is insane. Again someone at the top of EA has made a bad decision(after the geargate). The geargate was another thing. Then we thought ok lets wait for guild and may be they want people to join guilds so those gears can only be collected by playing raids in Guilds.
Now you make the guild system such that top players will group together(or you encourage them to group together) and thus alienating the ftp players. Now I will still be a bit ok with this if guild by themselves was something different - extra toons, extra activities, extra leaderboard to feel good, but still allowing players to be competitve in Arena. But no, guilds = only place to get epic gears, and by making ftp guys life difficult to find a decent guild in order to get gears in order to remain competitive after all these months of grinding, you are further putting them in disadvantage. Its like good you invested time, judiciously spent your arena crystal rewards, but your journey ends here, the princess is in another castle and you need to shell our some gold to the gatekeeper in order to enter the castle, otherwise you rot in gear 8.
In addition, with protection GW is already longer(although still possible). So with these insane number of daily activities for guilds and God knows how long it will take to kill the Racon and to get guild rewards, you are ensuring only those who do not have anything in life other than this game to play are your customers(to be competitve in this game).
EA please listen to us. Please understand the sentiment of the community. Maximum of us play because we are star war fans. Don't further drive the ftp community away. At least do not find ways to cripple the already existing feature by starting a wrong kind of dominos effect.
I can't imagine that even the whales will be happy with this. This could potentially cost them larger amount of money. Maybe EA is banking on this? They better think long and hard about this, as they could lose the majority of f2p and those just above that in spending both of which must be the lion share of SWGOH members. It would like biting the hand that feeds it.
Makes perfect sense that my friend Balaxxe from my guild makes such an insightful post!! Our Guild is founded on the principle of acceptance, allowing any type of players to join our group. Sure, we have modest requirements that most active players can achieve, mostly surrounding activity, playing frequently, chatting on Line frequently, helping new players build their teams.
This whole idea of turning the most anticipated feature into a spending war was not what most imagined this to be. Players have individual goals too, from farming to gear and more.
As a founding member of TNR, I can't with a good conscious, tell my players, scratch that, my friends that they are now monetary objects expected to spend money, money all my players may not have, to build our Guild to compete for unknown rewards that have no value in our real world lives.
I'd choose instead to take a pass on that and keep my great team of people together and play and have fun, all hands on deck, inclusive, not exclusive.
I love my team and it's players and many of them reading about this may be worried their teams, spending or other may not be enough to weather the storm. Rest assured my friends, none of my people will get left behind..
Makes perfect sense that my friend Balaxxe from my guild makes such an insightful post!! Our Guild is founded on the principle of acceptance, allowing any type of players to join our group. Sure, we have modest requirements that most active players can achieve, mostly surrounding activity, playing frequently, chatting on Line frequently, helping new players build their teams.
This whole idea of turning the most anticipated feature into a spending war was not what most imagined this to be. Players have individual goals too, from farming to gear and more.
As a founding member of TNR, I can't with a good conscious, tell my players, scratch that, my friends that they are now monetary objects expected to spend money, money all my players may not have, to build our Guild to compete for unknown rewards that have no value in our real world lives.
I'd choose instead to take a pass on that and keep my great team of people together and play and have fun, all hands on deck, inclusive, not exclusive.
I love my team and it's players and many of them reading about this may be worried their teams, spending or other may not be enough to weather the storm. Rest assured my friends, none of my people will get left behind..
Ok so I'm just getting home from work and had to check this out.
My feelings are very mixed on this. It is really a fine line here IMO.
So 1st off I spend/spent a lot on this game. I'm near 77, likely tonight or tomorrow. I have 3 omega equiped, buy every pack, couple vaults a week. Chromiums in the early days but poor luck. I've dropped a few grand I hate to admit, and have dropped a few hundred since cap raise. I dropped near 2 vaults pre crafting. I may not have everyone 7*, but everyone I decided I WANTED at 7* is and is maximum geared. Others now out of boredom I'm bringing up, and just to test.
I like to be atop and be the bar. I'm like that in work, education, sports, and games. If I have to spend to do so, so be it. Now I like competition, not how much I spend to determine, but my strategy. Sure not a ton in this game, but there is some. I used GS in arena before people knew he was awesome. Many times I've tested and ran builds only to find many others suddenly appear with that build. That is NOT based on my money spent, it is strat and synergy. I don't want how much I spend to win me the prize. It is not as sweet to win when bought or handed the prize.
That said as a spender I do feel that those of us who spend should get some perks and advantage, however this does not mean #1 automatically. I think spenders should be able to level and gear faster for sure. Money buys speed, not a title, though what I read so far seems it will buy both.
Now I know and consider many in game as friends here. Many are F2P. I do not feel they should be excluded or unable to realistically compete because they are not dropping the $ on the game. Nor do I want them to feel pressured to do so. This could be a huge negative in the game if this is what it becomes.
In the end I hope they have balance in this giving all those from whale to F2P the opportunity to be atop. Otherwise many may leave out of frustration.
I'll wait to see exactly how it is before I judge.
I agree completely with the op, but lets wait for the official information before rushing to conclusions. The info we have was datamined, which has mostly been accurate before, but has also proven wrong (scoundrel event). Also, this is just some of the information. For instance, we still dont know the rewards, which may be good enough at tier 5 or 6, so tier 7 may not be necessarily mandatory.
Let me say that i am 100% f2p, but i feel like it woul make sense if whale guilds got a bit of an advantage here (being the only ones to reach tier 7 rewards), as long as it is not game breaking. After all, the fact that they spent money on this game means i can play it for free, i should be grateful to them rather than complaining because they can achieve things i cant.
Ok so I'm just getting home from work and had to check this out.
My feelings are very mixed on this. It is really a fine line here IMO.
So 1st off I spend/spent a lot on this game. I'm near 77, likely tonight or tomorrow. I have 3 omega equiped, buy every pack, couple vaults a week. Chromiums in the early days but poor luck. I've dropped a few grand I hate to admit, and have dropped a few hundred since cap raise. I dropped near 2 vaults pre crafting. I may not have everyone 7*, but everyone I decided I WANTED at 7* is and is maximum geared. Others now out of boredom I'm bringing up, and just to test.
I like to be atop and be the bar. I'm like that in work, education, sports, and games. If I have to spend to do so, so be it. Now I like competition, not how much I spend to determine, but my strategy. Sure not a ton in this game, but there is some. I used GS in arena before people knew he was awesome. Many times I've tested and ran builds only to find many others suddenly appear with that build. That is NOT based on my money spent, it is strat and synergy. I don't want how much I spend to win me the prize. It is not as sweet to win when bought or handed the prize.
That said as a spender I do feel that those of us who spend should get some perks and advantage, however this does not mean #1 automatically. I think spenders should be able to level and gear faster for sure. Money buys speed, not a title, though what I read so far seems it will buy both.
Now I know and consider many in game as friends here. Many are F2P. I do not feel they should be excluded or unable to realistically compete because they are not dropping the $ on the game. Nor do I want them to feel pressured to do so. This could be a huge negative in the game if this is what it becomes.
In the end I hope they have balance in this giving all those from whale to F2P the opportunity to be atop. Otherwise many may leave out of frustration.
I'll wait to see exactly how it is before I judge.
Shawn,
Thank you for giving your perspective from someone who has spent a fair bit of money. I hope that the update takes into account much of what has been said.
Replies
HE SPEAKS THE TRUTH.
(good job Balaxxe, am in TNR waiting room)
Take heed CG. Test this to the nines or you will suffer the consequences.
As is mentioned here, I hope the impact of crystals in guild activities is being thoroughly thought through or will force a lot of f2p players to not be even remotely competitive and in turn make the whales spend less money because they don't need to to remain on top.
You're introducing a new predator to an already unstable ecosystem, I hope it doesn't make it unsustainable!
I haven't and won't spend another dollar on this game since the last patch and am waiting to see how guilds shake out. If it is a money grab for a buggy unfinished product, I'm out.
If this next update is smooth and great, you have me back. But if this is another ploy to empty my pockets for little to no substance, goodbye SWGOH.
After reading the datamined info, it seems that Tuesday is the only day in which (assuming all members are active) can be reasonably done.
The LS/DS battles ARE feasible, but with 50 members, tier 3 seems to be the highest a normal f2p (I'll define it as 2 x 50 normal energy) and thats assuming every is using an average of 8 energy each.
Wednesday HM battles, tier 5 appears to be feasible if everyone runs HM at 12 energy each (and that will never be the case).
Thursdays, I have no idea how we can each do 11-12 challenges each (perhaps counting the credit droids/training droids challenges), so can't really comment on this.
Saturdays will only apply to probably high ranked arena players fighting for top 10 and it's very unlikely that each member is that highly ranked. Perhaps this can be lowered, so that it will encourage activity instead; i.e. 250 battles for tier 7.
Sunday, compared to LS/DS/HM battles, this seems more reasonable allowing f2p/semi-p2p (1 cantina refresh) guilds to reach tier 5 if all members farmed at an average of 8 energy per node.
Of course, that said, these are all just ballpark guesses;
TL:DR
- Lower the tiers levels, some dailies seem reasonably fair for f2p (cantina, gw, arena), but some feel pretty ridiculous (LS/DS/HM)
- If tiers are not lowered, then hopefully the tier to currency ratio won't give too much of an advantage for whale guilds
Now you make the guild system such that top players will group together(or you encourage them to group together) and thus alienating the ftp players. Now I will still be a bit ok with this if guild by themselves was something different - extra toons, extra activities, extra leaderboard to feel good, but still allowing players to be competitve in Arena. But no, guilds = only place to get epic gears, and by making ftp guys life difficult to find a decent guild in order to get gears in order to remain competitive after all these months of grinding, you are further putting them in disadvantage. Its like good you invested time, judiciously spent your arena crystal rewards, but your journey ends here, the princess is in another castle and you need to shell our some gold to the gatekeeper in order to enter the castle, otherwise you rot in gear 8.
In addition, with protection GW is already longer(although still possible). So with these insane number of daily activities for guilds and God knows how long it will take to kill the Racon and to get guild rewards, you are ensuring only those who do not have anything in life other than this game to play are your customers(to be competitve in this game).
EA please listen to us. Please understand the sentiment of the community. Maximum of us play because we are star war fans. Don't further drive the ftp community away. At least do not find ways to cripple the already existing feature by starting a wrong kind of dominos effect.
This whole idea of turning the most anticipated feature into a spending war was not what most imagined this to be. Players have individual goals too, from farming to gear and more.
As a founding member of TNR, I can't with a good conscious, tell my players, scratch that, my friends that they are now monetary objects expected to spend money, money all my players may not have, to build our Guild to compete for unknown rewards that have no value in our real world lives.
I'd choose instead to take a pass on that and keep my great team of people together and play and have fun, all hands on deck, inclusive, not exclusive.
I love my team and it's players and many of them reading about this may be worried their teams, spending or other may not be enough to weather the storm. Rest assured my friends, none of my people will get left behind..
+10000000 Glad I joined you guys!!
Don't make this the Jar Jar patch.
Lol!
My feelings are very mixed on this. It is really a fine line here IMO.
So 1st off I spend/spent a lot on this game. I'm near 77, likely tonight or tomorrow. I have 3 omega equiped, buy every pack, couple vaults a week. Chromiums in the early days but poor luck. I've dropped a few grand I hate to admit, and have dropped a few hundred since cap raise. I dropped near 2 vaults pre crafting. I may not have everyone 7*, but everyone I decided I WANTED at 7* is and is maximum geared. Others now out of boredom I'm bringing up, and just to test.
I like to be atop and be the bar. I'm like that in work, education, sports, and games. If I have to spend to do so, so be it. Now I like competition, not how much I spend to determine, but my strategy. Sure not a ton in this game, but there is some. I used GS in arena before people knew he was awesome. Many times I've tested and ran builds only to find many others suddenly appear with that build. That is NOT based on my money spent, it is strat and synergy. I don't want how much I spend to win me the prize. It is not as sweet to win when bought or handed the prize.
That said as a spender I do feel that those of us who spend should get some perks and advantage, however this does not mean #1 automatically. I think spenders should be able to level and gear faster for sure. Money buys speed, not a title, though what I read so far seems it will buy both.
Now I know and consider many in game as friends here. Many are F2P. I do not feel they should be excluded or unable to realistically compete because they are not dropping the $ on the game. Nor do I want them to feel pressured to do so. This could be a huge negative in the game if this is what it becomes.
In the end I hope they have balance in this giving all those from whale to F2P the opportunity to be atop. Otherwise many may leave out of frustration.
I'll wait to see exactly how it is before I judge.
Let me say that i am 100% f2p, but i feel like it woul make sense if whale guilds got a bit of an advantage here (being the only ones to reach tier 7 rewards), as long as it is not game breaking. After all, the fact that they spent money on this game means i can play it for free, i should be grateful to them rather than complaining because they can achieve things i cant.
Shawn,
Thank you for giving your perspective from someone who has spent a fair bit of money. I hope that the update takes into account much of what has been said.