Jedi Consular vs Luminara Unduli (a comparison and my suggestion)
May 2, 2016 3:20PM
edited May 2016
Regarding Basic Damage and Special Damage, I would say he is rather a much inferior version of Luminara; however, for a strategic game, I think no one should be anyone's almost exact copy especially inferior version of the almost exact copy, but instead, everyone should be unique and strategically practical in their own way.
I would say Consular is rather a much inferior version of Luminara because of what I find below.
Similarity:
almost exactly same Health (Consular has 14559 health while Luminara has14509 health.);
almost exactly same Speed (Consular has 119 speed while Luminara had 118 speed.);
almost exactly same Abilities (Basic Attack, Heal, Force Blast)
Difference:
1. Luminara deals 174.75% (116.5%*150%) Basic Damage of that of Consular when they both heal equally: Luminara has about 16.5% more Basic Damage than Consular does (10% more Basic Damage, 13% more Critical Chance); moreover, every 4 turns (Cooldown of Luminara's healing ability), Consular needs to spend 2 turns to heal in order to heal the same amount of that Luminara does using 1 turn, thus his remaining 50% of turns are used for dealing damage while the other 75% of Luminara's turns are used for dealing damage, as a result, Luminara deals up to a further 50% (75%/50%) more damage than Consular does in every 4 turns (Conversely, if Consular uses more of his turns to deal damage, he will deal more damage than he otherwise does when using more of his turns to heal, up to still 16.5% less damage than Luminara does while healing only half the amount of that Luminara does).
2. Luminara has Evasion Up thus considerably more survivability than Consular does.
3. Luminara's Special Ability deals significant 247% damage of that of Consular and has Ability Block (6316 damage and critical hit up to 9472 damage while Consular's Special Ability deals 3821 damage with barely any critical hit or useful effect)
My Suggestion:
In total, Luminara deals significantly more – more than double – 223.75% (147%/3+174.75%) damage of that of Consular; conversely, Consular doesn't have a single thing better than that of Luminara.
For that reason, I think Consular needs to have at least something better than Luminara in order to be unique and strategically practical. After my consideration, since Consular is categorized as healer while Luminara is categorized as attacker, should there be any balancing of characters, it may be suitable for Consular to be better in healing than Luminara is. So here is my suggestion for character balancing:
Consular:
Saber Strike (level 7) – Deal Physical damage to target enemy with a 60% (instead of 25%) chance to reduce all cooldowns by 1 on use.
Jedi Healing (level 7) – Each ally recovers Health equal to 40% of Jedi Consular’s Max health with a 25% chance to recover an additional 20% of their Max health and gain 25% Turn Meter on use. Jedi Consular gains 10% turn meter for each ally healed.
On the other hand, it puzzles me every time I consider Jedi Consular's Special Ability in terms of its usefulness (Attack as Defense – Deal Special damage to target enemy and recover Health equal to 30% of the damage dealt. This attack has a 25% chance to ignore the target's armor.): What is strategically practical about this ability?
a), It deals even less damage than Consular's Basic Attack does (3821 from Special Attack without critical hit chance versus 3802 from Basic Attack with critical hit chance, thus it deals even considerably less damage than that of Basic Attack).
b), Recover of 30% health of the damage dealt (recover 700 health at level 70) is paltry.
c), 25% chance to ignore armor (25% chance to deal extra 100-300 damage, thus in total 25 - 75 increased damage) is beyond paltry.
d), When using Special Ability, Jedi Consular also loses his most important bonus effect (chance to reduce all cooldowns by 1 on use) from otherwise using his Basic Attack.
For those reasons, I didn't see any practicality of Consular's current Special Ability.
However, I think in order for Consular's Special Ability to make sense, it has to be reworked and here is my suggestion for Consular's Special Ability:
Consular:
Attack as Defense (level 7) – Deal Special damage to target enemy and each ally (instead of just himself) recover Health equal to 60% (instead of 30%) of the damage dealt. This attack has a 25% chance to ignore the target's armor and 40% chance to critical hit. (*note: a measure of 2k - 3k healing of whole team on use)
TL;DR: In conclusion, this is a Consular that makes more sense to me than current Consular does:
Consular:
Saber Strike (level 7) – Deal Physical damage to target enemy with a 60% (instead of 25%) chance to reduce all cooldowns by 1 on use.
Jedi Healing (level 7) – Each ally recovers Health equal to 40% of Jedi Consular’s Max health with a 25% chance to recover an additional 20% of their Max health and gain 25% Turn Meter on use. Jedi Consular gains 10% turn meter for each ally healed.
Attack as Defense (level 7) – Deal Special damage to target enemy and each ally (instead of just himself) recover Health equal to 60% (instead of 30%) of the damage dealt. This attack has a 25% chance to ignore the target's armor and 40% chance to critical hit. (*note: a measure of 2k - 3k healing of whole team on use)
Do you think his abilities need rework?
I would say Consular is rather a much inferior version of Luminara because of what I find below.
Similarity:
almost exactly same Health (Consular has 14559 health while Luminara has14509 health.);
almost exactly same Speed (Consular has 119 speed while Luminara had 118 speed.);
almost exactly same Abilities (Basic Attack, Heal, Force Blast)
Difference:
1. Luminara deals 174.75% (116.5%*150%) Basic Damage of that of Consular when they both heal equally: Luminara has about 16.5% more Basic Damage than Consular does (10% more Basic Damage, 13% more Critical Chance); moreover, every 4 turns (Cooldown of Luminara's healing ability), Consular needs to spend 2 turns to heal in order to heal the same amount of that Luminara does using 1 turn, thus his remaining 50% of turns are used for dealing damage while the other 75% of Luminara's turns are used for dealing damage, as a result, Luminara deals up to a further 50% (75%/50%) more damage than Consular does in every 4 turns (Conversely, if Consular uses more of his turns to deal damage, he will deal more damage than he otherwise does when using more of his turns to heal, up to still 16.5% less damage than Luminara does while healing only half the amount of that Luminara does).
2. Luminara has Evasion Up thus considerably more survivability than Consular does.
3. Luminara's Special Ability deals significant 247% damage of that of Consular and has Ability Block (6316 damage and critical hit up to 9472 damage while Consular's Special Ability deals 3821 damage with barely any critical hit or useful effect)
My Suggestion:
In total, Luminara deals significantly more – more than double – 223.75% (147%/3+174.75%) damage of that of Consular; conversely, Consular doesn't have a single thing better than that of Luminara.
For that reason, I think Consular needs to have at least something better than Luminara in order to be unique and strategically practical. After my consideration, since Consular is categorized as healer while Luminara is categorized as attacker, should there be any balancing of characters, it may be suitable for Consular to be better in healing than Luminara is. So here is my suggestion for character balancing:
Consular:
Saber Strike (level 7) – Deal Physical damage to target enemy with a 60% (instead of 25%) chance to reduce all cooldowns by 1 on use.
Jedi Healing (level 7) – Each ally recovers Health equal to 40% of Jedi Consular’s Max health with a 25% chance to recover an additional 20% of their Max health and gain 25% Turn Meter on use. Jedi Consular gains 10% turn meter for each ally healed.
On the other hand, it puzzles me every time I consider Jedi Consular's Special Ability in terms of its usefulness (Attack as Defense – Deal Special damage to target enemy and recover Health equal to 30% of the damage dealt. This attack has a 25% chance to ignore the target's armor.): What is strategically practical about this ability?
a), It deals even less damage than Consular's Basic Attack does (3821 from Special Attack without critical hit chance versus 3802 from Basic Attack with critical hit chance, thus it deals even considerably less damage than that of Basic Attack).
b), Recover of 30% health of the damage dealt (recover 700 health at level 70) is paltry.
c), 25% chance to ignore armor (25% chance to deal extra 100-300 damage, thus in total 25 - 75 increased damage) is beyond paltry.
d), When using Special Ability, Jedi Consular also loses his most important bonus effect (chance to reduce all cooldowns by 1 on use) from otherwise using his Basic Attack.
For those reasons, I didn't see any practicality of Consular's current Special Ability.
However, I think in order for Consular's Special Ability to make sense, it has to be reworked and here is my suggestion for Consular's Special Ability:
Consular:
Attack as Defense (level 7) – Deal Special damage to target enemy and each ally (instead of just himself) recover Health equal to 60% (instead of 30%) of the damage dealt. This attack has a 25% chance to ignore the target's armor and 40% chance to critical hit. (*note: a measure of 2k - 3k healing of whole team on use)
TL;DR: In conclusion, this is a Consular that makes more sense to me than current Consular does:
Consular:
Saber Strike (level 7) – Deal Physical damage to target enemy with a 60% (instead of 25%) chance to reduce all cooldowns by 1 on use.
Jedi Healing (level 7) – Each ally recovers Health equal to 40% of Jedi Consular’s Max health with a 25% chance to recover an additional 20% of their Max health and gain 25% Turn Meter on use. Jedi Consular gains 10% turn meter for each ally healed.
Attack as Defense (level 7) – Deal Special damage to target enemy and each ally (instead of just himself) recover Health equal to 60% (instead of 30%) of the damage dealt. This attack has a 25% chance to ignore the target's armor and 40% chance to critical hit. (*note: a measure of 2k - 3k healing of whole team on use)
Do you think his abilities need rework?
Post edited by Oliverwilliohelma on
0
Replies
Luminara is not.
That shouldn't matter in the grand scheme of things.
I still believe a buff of 10% on his heal would be balanced since he is so weak offensively and heal blocks work against his heal.
It shouldnt matter that the basic healer they provide everyone for free is not endgame tier 1.
JC is definitely end game worthy, he is tier 1 no question. You can realistically retreat JC against the Rancor (which is the end game) and use him again, Lumi often simply cannot be used again due to the cool down on her heal.
If you're asking if JC is useful in Arena, the answer is no. Too weak, and the matches don't last long enough. But for GW, or even just a standard mission, JC can be a huge difference to the team. Especially if you pair him with a good tank to keep their health up.
A better question is, why is he stealing ANY health from enemies? Isn't that a Sith trick, not a Jedi?
So his Omega heal would be Cooldown -1 plus 50% chance of addition Cooldown - 1 on use.
It doesn't seem to be working. But he does have the theoretical ability to heal very often (every other round) and gain TM to make those rounds go by faster.
Exactly.
Concerning usefulness of characters in Squad Arena, I believe that Barriss Offee should heal more than Luminara does in order to be viable in Squad Arena.
In 3 turns (the amount of turns in which Luminara's healing ability takes place), Luminara heals 80% of her health for whole team, which is 11607.2; in contrast, Barriss currently heals 3*45%*6%*24539+3/5*15%*[(~12k+~20k)/2]+3*(4%+8%)/2*24539=1987.659+1440+4417.2=7844.859 in 3 turns.
So in order for Barris to heal more than Luminara does, here is my suggestion:
Barriss Offee:
Invigorating Strike (level 8) - Deal Physical damage to target enemy with a 45% chance for all allies to recover 9% (instead of 6%) of Barriss Offee's Max Health.
Force Healer (level 8) - All allies have their current Health percentages equalized (Health equalizing effects ignore Healing Immunity). Then, each ally recovers 15% of their Max Health. In addition Barriss Offee gain defense up for 2 Turns. (Cooldown 4 instead of 5)
No One Left Behind (level 8) - Jedi allies gain 20% Max Health, and other alllies gain half that amount. In addition, Jedi allies heal for 10% (instead of 8%) of Barriss Offee's Max Health, and other allies heal half that amount.
Swift Recovery (level 8) - Barriss Offee has a 70% (instead of 55%) chance to dispel one random negative status from each allied Jedi and gain 15% (instead of 9%) Turn Meter for each effect removed.
This way, Barriss Offee will heal {3*45%*9%*24539+ 3/4*15%*(~12k+~20k)/2 + 3*(5%+10%)/2*24539}*(100%+~2.5*70%*15%-~2.5*55%*9%)=11732
Thanks for reading.
IMHO, I think it is difficult for us to notice the difference of our subject by our sheer impression because our impression of that subject is based on consequences and when there are little or no suitable consequences for the subject of our impression, our impression for that subject can be vague. For example, if one can finish Galatic War with either Talia or Luminara, one may feel that Talia and Lumina are comparable in healing, which is not exactly true, as lacking of a suitable consequence for a subject can lead to misperception of that subject. In this case, because healing abilities of Talia and that of Luminara work very differently thus involve different contingencies, there are little suitable consequence on which healing ability of Talia and that of Luminara may be compared apart from the only consequence more suitable than whether or not being able to complete Galatic War in a team of 5 would be mathematical data: Assuming health of low health ally and that of high health ally are 12k and 20k, Talia would heal between (40%*4-20%)*12k=16.8k and (40%*4-20%)*20k=28k, 22.4k in average while Luminara would heal between 60%*14k*5=42k in case of buff being dispelled (it is not often that all buffs will be dispelled immediately) and 80%*14k*5=56k in case of buff not being dispelled, 49k in average; as a result, Luminara heals 218.8% of that Talia does. So the real difference is more easily seen or more observable based on a more suitable consequence than the vague difference is based on a less suitable consequence.
In comparison of Consular and Luminara, Consular can heal as much as Luminara does but at the cost of losing an additional 25% of his own damage output from being 60% of Luminara's damage output down to being 45% of Luminara's damage output. In this case, the difference of damage output between Consular and Luminara is 40%-55%; however, in a team of 5, this difference of damage output will be mitigated into 8%-11%, thus we can barely notice the difference by comparing them based on the consequence of a team of 5 as we usually do rather than comparing them based on a more suitable consequence, which would be a duel or mathematical data. For instance, there may be only slight difference in effect for a team of 5 even if one of them doesn't do any damage at all especially when that one is not main damage dealer as the difference of damage output with one hero doing 100% less damage in a team of 5 would be 20% less damage at most for a team of 5.
In conclusion, we can hardly assess an individual hero correctly based on the consequence of a team of many rather than the more suitable consequence of that hero themselves.
"Special" means "distinct" rather than "a specific shared quality".
Might be a question.
As we may have observed, the way Consulae's Force Blast (Attack as Defense) generates health is according to damage dealt like one of the DS character Talia and unlike other Jedis, who generate health according to their own health; however, I think the difference between the way Talia generate health and the way Consular generate health is that Talia generate health through physical damage (Basic Damage) while Consular generate health through spiritual damage (Special Damage) -- Force Blast.
I know that the Force has given Consular health.
You got it, "fine" in GW doesn't say anything: even my suicide squad in GW is "fine".
Seriously, what does "fine" even mean? What is the criteria for "fine"? Could you de-"fine" it?
I can promise you that even if JC deal 0 damage, he still will be your so called "fine" in GW, the difference of total damage output in a team of 5 is only 20% at most since JC is not damage dealer.
Do you ever use "retreat" button in GW? If you does, then Jedi Consular is not "fine".
Could you auto battle whole GW using Jedi Consular in your team? If you couldn't, then Jedi Consular is not "fine".
However, as you have mentioned, Consular is "garbage" in arena rather than Luminara is "garbage", which I think really speak something profound about Damage output of Jedi Consular.