I havent tried STH, but +13.9% defense and a +9 Defense should give you around .16*13.9 + 9*.12 = 3.3% armor if STH was the same as I was getting from Royal Guard. Looks like your getting a little more armor with STH then I was getting with Royal Guard. (Not sure on gear and levels between us which could cause changes)
I'm at level 80, gear 11 with him. I'm not certain, since I don't have the actual sets, but it just seems unlikely that 15% couldn't get me 3.33% armor if I get more than that with 13.9% and a flat bonus of just 9. It's worth a shot for me to see once I get my crit chance stuff done.
Here's another issue.... I have a mod with a bonus stat of +2 defence
When I add it to a TOTALLY unmodded Leia I get 22.43 to 22.64 increase
A .21% increase from the +2 defence alone.
When I add the exact same mod to an unmodded RG I get 26.2 to 26.38
A .18 % increase from the same exact plus 2 defence mod
So the calculations on a larger scale than a +2 or the % values for sets might be vastly different in actual calculation value that differes character to character
Here's another issue.... I have a mod with a bonus stat of +2 defence
When I add it to a TOTALLY unmodded Leia I get 22.43 to 22.64 increase
A .21% increase from the +2 defence alone.
When I add the exact same mod to an unmodded RG I get 26.2 to 26.38
A .18 % increase from the same exact plus 2 defence mod
So the calculations on a larger scale than a +2 or the % values for sets might be vastly different in actual calculation value that differes character to character
This is simply because the defense to damage reduction formula is subject to diminishing returns. RG starts at a higher base defense so each incremental point of defense translates to less and less damage reduction.
@Durrun I'm pretty sure they're supposed to have decreasing returns to scale. A 2% increase from 20-22% armor is a 3.2% increase in EHP whereas a 2% increase from 40-42% is a 5.7% increase in EHP. If they scaled linearly, we'd start getting completely unkillable toons once we started stacking defense.
Does this still not mean that a character at higher defense will not benefit as greatly as he would from hp mods if the defense values are diminished?
% Defense gains would offset the diminishing returns to a degree, since you would gain more defense from a higher base stat, but that would be subject to diminishing returns. So it probably levels out. Flat defense will be less valuable at higher base values.
Again, the difference between whether the health set bonus and defense set bonus is better, depends on your hp to protection ratio as I outlined in the previous page.
You are VASTLY underestimating the power of that +9 Defense, from my calculation we have a defense value of effectively 133 (although it gets really wierd once we calculate it as above based on level in which case the defense would have to be around 160, lets assume static defense), so +9 is like +7% defense. So you are saying that +13%+7% which is about 20% defense bonus is going to be less than a 15% defense bonus?
Don't mods not compound with each other anyway? Or do the secondary stats not count? Thought when mods got redone they said they could only go off base gear and add on or is that strictly percentages?
You are VASTLY underestimating the power of that +9 Defense, from my calculation we have a defense value of effectively 120 (although it gets really wierd once we calculate it as above based on level in which case the defense would have to be around 180, lets assume static defense), so +9 is like +7% defense. So you are saying that +13%+7% which is about 20% defense bonus is going to be less than a 15% defense bonus?
This depends on your toons base defense. I'm assuming you're not putting it on a max geared RG? +9 defense might be +7% defense for you but could be significantly less for a toon with more base defense.
@Obsid: I may be underestimating the +9, I don't deny that. I'm operating under no assumption as to how the defense to armor % translation works. That +9 Defense could be as high as you say, sure, but we can't see what defense actually is, and if they mean to say armor (not armor %) is defense, then swgoh.gg has armor rating of 242 for STH.
In about 30-40 mins I'll get a set of defense mods and check it out for certain.
Under a new base (since I avoided using anything with +X defense and stuck with only % increases) STH needed to get to 31.82% armor to equal a 10% health increase. By adding 10% defense I only got to 31.43%....
Thank you for reconfirming @StormTro0p3R_H
I really think defence is a useless stat, armor is the only thing that matters and we still don't fully understand the conversion. Ty for retesting
Edit: Armor has been stealth changed, in case you haven't noticed! At first it seems that perhaps this doesn't mean much, but turns out that it allows Defense Mods to be useful in some cases! A really big one is for a very popular character: Stormtrooper Han! Note, this example is legit, but I haven't experimented enough with changing the "base" protection, yet...
I'm not able to find those notes/hints on this stealth change. Could you please link me to that info please?
Edit: Armor has been stealth changed, in case you haven't noticed! At first it seems that perhaps this doesn't mean much, but turns out that it allows Defense Mods to be useful in some cases! A really big one is for a very popular character: Stormtrooper Han! Note, this example is legit, but I haven't experimented enough with changing the "base" protection, yet...
I'm not able to find those notes/hints on this stealth change. Could you please link me to that info please?
Its probably a stealth change because of lack of said notes.
Edit: Armor has been stealth changed, in case you haven't noticed! At first it seems that perhaps this doesn't mean much, but turns out that it allows Defense Mods to be useful in some cases! A really big one is for a very popular character: Stormtrooper Han! Note, this example is legit, but I haven't experimented enough with changing the "base" protection, yet...
I'm not able to find those notes/hints on this stealth change. Could you please link me to that info please?
Its probably a stealth change because of lack of said notes.
I'm gonna let this go again for now, but just know the higher the protection, the less armor increase you need for Defense Mod Set bonus to be better. It's very close now for STH and protection will increase from going up a gear level and the eventual larger boost from 6* and 7* Mods with protection primaries...
Also understand we are not counting any healing in deciding if defense mods are worth it. If a char with good defense (like STHan) is healed significantly, then it is likely that will push STHan or similar chars over the limit where Defense mods make sense.
For the last credit heist, I gave Chewie two complete sets of Tier 5 Defense sets with his leader skill maxed, and he still got ****. The boost in armor and defense basically only saved 3 enemy attacks in comparison.
Is it too early to consider what happens at the next level and gear cap increase? With the way protection continues to rocket up with gear levels, I would think that once the next gear cap is raised, defense mods will outshine health mods. Also, more characters with protection-replenishing specials will be introduced, which could also be a reason to lean towards defense mods. Then again, so many nerfs/buffs may happen in the meantime that it's moot to speculate, but it is fun.
I'm not going to look too far ahead at the way Defense Mods interact with all characters in general, but I can assure you that Defense Mods will be better for STH specifically when 6* Mods come out and/or when he can achieve Gear 12.
The reason I'm confident for STH is because of his low initial health and high protection. I can't think of anyone else you would want to mod defensively rather than offensively that has health as low as he does.
The best mod will rotate as EA releases new updates. Why? If they continually move the target they force more $$$$ to be spent. That's the way they roll.
Replies
I havent tried STH, but +13.9% defense and a +9 Defense should give you around .16*13.9 + 9*.12 = 3.3% armor if STH was the same as I was getting from Royal Guard. Looks like your getting a little more armor with STH then I was getting with Royal Guard. (Not sure on gear and levels between us which could cause changes)
When I add it to a TOTALLY unmodded Leia I get 22.43 to 22.64 increase
A .21% increase from the +2 defence alone.
When I add the exact same mod to an unmodded RG I get 26.2 to 26.38
A .18 % increase from the same exact plus 2 defence mod
So the calculations on a larger scale than a +2 or the % values for sets might be vastly different in actual calculation value that differes character to character
Thoughts @StormTro0p3R_H?
This is simply because the defense to damage reduction formula is subject to diminishing returns. RG starts at a higher base defense so each incremental point of defense translates to less and less damage reduction.
% Defense gains would offset the diminishing returns to a degree, since you would gain more defense from a higher base stat, but that would be subject to diminishing returns. So it probably levels out. Flat defense will be less valuable at higher base values.
Again, the difference between whether the health set bonus and defense set bonus is better, depends on your hp to protection ratio as I outlined in the previous page.
You are VASTLY underestimating the power of that +9 Defense, from my calculation we have a defense value of effectively 133 (although it gets really wierd once we calculate it as above based on level in which case the defense would have to be around 160, lets assume static defense), so +9 is like +7% defense. So you are saying that +13%+7% which is about 20% defense bonus is going to be less than a 15% defense bonus?
This depends on your toons base defense. I'm assuming you're not putting it on a max geared RG? +9 defense might be +7% defense for you but could be significantly less for a toon with more base defense.
In about 30-40 mins I'll get a set of defense mods and check it out for certain.
So Health Mods are still better
I really think defence is a useless stat, armor is the only thing that matters and we still don't fully understand the conversion. Ty for retesting
I'm not able to find those notes/hints on this stealth change. Could you please link me to that info please?
Its probably a stealth change because of lack of said notes.
Then it would be helpful if someone could explain those changes briefly. It was mentioned here on the forum several times (also here: https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/comment/604968#Comment_604968, and here https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/comment/604917#Comment_604917, ...) - so it seems most know what changed exactly but i just can't find any information on that specifically ...
Edit: Ok, found the info now. The just buffed every toons base defense out of whatever reason, proof was here:
https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/60924/proof-armor-has-increased#latest
The reason I'm confident for STH is because of his low initial health and high protection. I can't think of anyone else you would want to mod defensively rather than offensively that has health as low as he does.