Speed on mods should be based on percentage, not flat numbers
When they updated the mods they changed protection and health to a percentage to keep the game more balanced. Yet they left speed a flat number aside from the set bonus that no one uses.
Instead of +30 speed for primaries and 10 speed for secondaries, make it 10% and 3%. That would keep things more like they were intended to work and people can't buy a bunch with speed secondaries and get super fast characters that were meant to be slower.
Instead of +30 speed for primaries and 10 speed for secondaries, make it 10% and 3%. That would keep things more like they were intended to work and people can't buy a bunch with speed secondaries and get super fast characters that were meant to be slower.
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In game guild: TNR Uprising
I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
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First mods too OP and made many factors previously important in game usless (gear mainly, but stars too). But this update made almost any toon playable which was nice. Very few like it.
Change:
Everything is % based. Back to the same old toons we have because increasing health by % means low health toons are pointless to mod up.
If they change speed to % based it's the same problem, only the fast get faster, the slow stay slow. Just less slow.
Teams at the top of arena are quickly becoming "teams that got lucky RNG and dropped speed primaries" in mod challenges. Not the best teams power-wise. Not the best teams in terms of synergy. Not strategy. Simply, who has the fastest toons. That's not interesting....or different (Poe coin flip anyone?).
It's become a simple game of who can get fastest - which really can be boiled down to "who got the luckiest mod drops".
As I said, I don't have a perfect solution. But the problem exists and will only get worse.
It's too bad, because with the introduction of Emperor Palpatine, there could have been even more variety in arena - but it still boils down to speed primary mods.
In game guild: TNR Uprising
I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
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Lately the forums have been littered with complaints cause the have-nots are just mad they don't have what the lucky people got. Boofreakinghoo, so keep farming til you get those specific mods or even better find yourselves another game..probably would matter though, even in other games you people gonna cry for nerfs. So many salty kids these days.
It's not the speed primary arrow that is the problem. Speed doesn't come as a primary on any other mods other than Arrow. That said, your assessment is correct the secondary speed on mods breaks the game and boils it down to who is faster and not much else.
No one is angry or crying. Just pointing out a flaw with speed secondary/primary.
And yes, I agree, stuns are better than speed - but only if your stunner gets a chance to actually do their thing. I also am on an early December shard. I have also placed first (not yesterday - the day before). I run maxed Daka on my "usual" team. I tried swapping in a Palp lead team - problem is the same old sped up OB lead teams - OB still ability blocks everyone. Palp's stun is unusable then. So I have to go back to my old team - which is exactly my point. It's not about changing teams - it's about speed and simply sticking to the same teams that have always worked.
The introduction of Palpatine could have lead to more variety in arena - but it doesn't. It's better to stay with what many of us have been running in arena for months. Whoop-de-freaking-do. lol
In game guild: TNR Uprising
I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
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I've seen speed secondaries over 20. That's more than many have on their characters with all secondaries combined. They should at least make that a percentage but I'd be happy with all of it.
Some of the outrageous stats were tamed with the last mod update. Except for speed which is the most crucial.
That's part of the problem though. One of the naturally balancing aspects of characters like Old Ben (112) or STHan (126) is that they ARE slower than QGJ, Daka, Rey, etc, - so people could at least get in an attack in before being ability blocked. Yesterday, I saw 2 different arena teams on my shard - both had an Old Ben AND STHan, both with a 200+ speed. That's just silly. lol
Yes, I could move mods around to speed up toon X or hero Y, but that's not what the game should be about imho - min/maxing a handful of lucky mod drops?
Like I have said before - mods should be an important aspect of the game and of character stats....but not the only one that matters. In arena, that's quickly (and sadly) becoming the case.
In game guild: TNR Uprising
I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
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Absolutely agree with your final statement. This is why I think the numbers need to be low enough to not take toons out of their intended design (slow and tanky, fast and weak, etc.) but significant enough to allow you to mitigate some of the worst aspects of specific toons. E.g. Assaj suffers massively from being horrendously slow - with % speed mods, she'd only gain tiny amounts of speed and there'd be no way to mitigate that - with 'reasonable' speed secondaries you might be able to boost her up to level speed with much faster toons but they get to concentrate on other mod areas.
It's a similar story for potency mods - they would do nothing if their % was multiplicative. Magmatrooper and Tarkin would still never TM reduce and Sid would still never land a dot.
Flat numbers also make sense if you consider there are already several leader abilities that give flat speed boosts.
Fixed it for you.
The complaint is over secondary speed stats mostly
In game guild: TNR Uprising
I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
If only +11 were the cap. Its +25 on secondary. Anything above 15 breaks the game, as a secondary boost, we all know this, whether you're abusing it yourself or not. Honestly, even +12 is godly as a secondary boost.
Edit: % is not the way though, it would trap slow characters into being slow forever, which defeats the purpose. Flat numbers must stay, they just shouldn't be able to get so high. Remember this is only mark 5, we have 6 and 7 to come.
Think about this for a second..when mods were crazy at release..there were toons doing 30k damage with their basic. 2'days later the devs changed all of that. This was what month and a half ago?
So here we are and secondary stats haven't been changed yet...has anyone stopped for a second to consider this is how the game is? Maybe there isn't anything to be changed cause there isn't a real problem here...that is unless your fighting a better modded team than you.
This is a simple case of the haves vs the have-nots.
The only problem here are the people who don't have them are mad.
So freaking what if someone has + 15 speed on a secondary cross mod and you don't...go out and get some mods that give +5 speed on a cross, diamond, triangle and square and guess what! Now the playing field just got more balanced for you...duh.
I think the point is that person may have +15 on a cross, and a diamond, and a triangle, and a square. In addition to the +30 arrow. It's disproportional compared to the actual speed set bonus, which is only 10%.
Are you really saying that its ok to gain significantly more speed by having secondary stats on other mods, instead of the actual speed set?
If speed went up to 25 only on the speed set mod? It would make more sense. If you want speed, choose speed.
Unfortunately the formula that relates tenacity to potency is as follows (with a minimum 15% resist chance):
Chance to resist = Defender Tenacity - Attackers Potency
Right now the Highest Base Tenacity is 39%. Let's say we apply the 30% set bonus for 69% Tenacity.
That means that even the highest tenacity in the game fully modded will only resist 50% of the time when attacked by any character who has over 19 Potency. Well guess what? The average potency of current in game characters is 27% without mods!. That means the best tenacity character modded with a tenacity set is only going to resist 42% of the time. It gets better! In order to reduce the best tenacity character with a full tenacity set to the 15% minumum, a character only needs 54% potency. Two characters have this as a base! 12 characters can reach this with a measly two potency mods (or one with a primary stat)!
The average tenacity characters fare even worse. All in game characters have an average of 26 tenacity. That means without tenacity mods, they are all reduced to the minimum chance to resist by any character with over 11 potency (all but 12 characters).
Everything seems to be geared to favor applying the effects as opposed to resisting. Personally I think, either Tenacity mods should give a much larger bonus than 10% or base tenacity should be bumped a bit across the board. I think this is the true problem in the game and not speed. Think about it for a moment? Do you fear 250 speed DPS characters? No. You fear 200 speed debuffers who can keep a team from moving effectively for 1-2 turns.
Great points. I'd just point out that everyone fears a 250 speed Lando and/or Wedge...LOL
You're right about tenacity and it not being a viable option, though.
Yes I am saying that. Why? Because they farmed the mods. If they got lucky and got the best mods available good for them. I'll get them too eventually. What's so wrong about that? Why should I hate on them cause they got better mods than me? Does that give me a right to come to the forums and complain and hope the devs nerf speed secondaries cause they have some I do not? That's such a ridiculous way to want something balanced.
Farming mods will bring balance. Til then people are just mad cause they don't have what someone else does.
Haves vs the have-nots. That's what this is really about. If everyone had all the same mods there would be something else they would complain about..they always do.
Speed will never be the same for everyone..most toons have different base speed stats. The only thing that evens the playing field is farming speed mods. Toons with extremely low base speed stats will need to farm mods with secondary speed stats. And if the already fast squads farm them to so be it. It's not like we all can't farm those same toons or same speed mods.
If those slower toons with low base speeds don't ever get those secondary speed mods then they will remain slow and not useful forever. This game needs mods with secondary speed stats. Especially slow toons.
No, the issue is not as simple as that (incidentally I have several +26 arrow mods and +11 secondary speed mods - so I am a "have").
The issue is that a tank, and a speedy attacker and controlling support character are not all supposed to be 200 speed, as that completely undermines the point of speed as defining characteristic. There is a difference between "balance" and "sameness" that seems to be eluding you in the conversation. I don't 75 characters that are all the same statistically with different "skins" - which is what this is turning into with mods. Rey has the same health and protection as many tanks now. Secondary speed mods mean OB and STHan are just as fast as Rey and Leia. That's not fun...or interesting. There are no "pros" and "cons" to weigh in having someone on your team. Just put whoever you want and mod away all the cons? That's lame.
You are correct though - if everyone had everyone speed modded to the max, then it would be balanced - which is sadly the problem. CG/EA simply want everyone to keep hitting the mod slot machine until they finally have enough speed mods to win!!! Yeah - because that's why we all play this game...so we can roll the mod slot machine wheel. Not for characters or strategy or fun or battles or arena or collecting things - nope, we all just signed up (and some even paid hundreds and some even thousands of dollars) to play MOD LOTTERY!!! woot!!
lol. Okay.
In game guild: TNR Uprising
I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
If I were to use 4 speed mods at level 15, it would grant 14 speed.
I am using 1 health mod with a speed secondary worth 15, and this isn't even the highest possible.
Therein lies the problem. The bonuses gained by speed as secondary stats are not only worth more than the set bonus, but more than any other secondary stat roll. You may have mods that grant a flat 400-500 health or protection, where in the case of Rex translates to about 3% more.
15 speed is almost 11% more speed for Rex. For CSP1, it's just shy of 15% more speed.
I'm not sure the disparity comparing speed to offense or defense, but it's probably just as bad.
In order for speed to not be the only secondary stat worth chasing, something needs to be done. Either by making the other secondary stats give an equivalent bonus with exceptional rolls. So the max achievable roll for health as an example get bumped to 1500. This would fall in line the original intent of using mods to either bolster a characters strong suits, or shore up their weaknesses.
Or capping the max speed that can be achieved by speed secondaries, either through making them % based, or capping the max potential-- say at a flat 5.
However, think either solution would just make a lot of people very angry once again.
This guy gets it! Well said Nikoms565. A tank should not go first, hell even the designers realized that poe going first was an issue and changed the speed stat all together. This isn't much different. Its funny how some people can see this issue as horrible for the game for reasons that make sense and the people who want to continue to use those mods they got lucky with defend it as good for the game. It is a matter of perspective for sure. The haves are 100% dilusional and wrong in this case. Secondary speed mod totals being so high breaks the game. There isn't one counter to it other than speed and none of the other stats mean anything near what speed means to a character. For that reason alone, it is broken and needs to be adjusted. If you don't see it that way, its because you don't understand how to balance a game.
The worst part about playing the mod slot machine is you don't even know what secondaries it may have the majority of the time. Only the biggest whales will be able to level up hundreds of mods to find the perfect ones with the highest speed secondaries.
Yea, been saying this forever. The only hope.. THE ONLY HOPE for ftp right now is JE droids. Give it another month and all pure FTP will disapear from the top 25.