Old Ben's mind tricks unaffected by Palpatine Lead

Pyramidshawn

Mind tricks seems to be unaffected by the potency adjustment from Palpatine's lead ability (emperor of the galactic empire).

Many have mentioned this, but I thought it deserved a thread (or another one) of its own.

Obipan

Palpatine doesn't stop Jedi's from using abilities, he just makes them stop evading

scuba

Obipan wrote: »

Palpatine doesn't stop Jedi's from using abilities, he just makes them stop evading

He also reduce their potency by 32%

Obipan

Old Ben's ability doesn't affect potency, it removes TM, and his leader grants evasion not potency, RTM, WAI

gatormatt

Palpatine reduces potency, meaning Obi's mind tricks has less chance of sticking.

obiwanjabroni

How do you know? Ben is the strongest Jedi ever and maybe just that potent...

LastJedi

Old ben lands block and offense down and tm. All of those typically use potency to determine chance of landing.

scuba

Obipan wrote: »

Old Ben's ability doesn't affect potency, it removes TM, and his leader grants evasion not potency, RTM, WAI

You are misinformed if that is how you think it works.

TMR, ability block and offense down are all debuffs and they are resistable thus go thru potency vs tenacity check to see if they are resisted. Most feel that old Ben ability ignores this check because of the frequency it gets applied.

Pyramidshawn

gatormatt wrote: »

Palpatine reduces potency, meaning Obi's mind tricks has less chance of sticking.

That is the way it is supposed to work. Unfortunately, Ben is landing at the same rate even against opponents who's Bens should be as low as 0% after Palpatine's lead potency reduction.

Definitely needs to be looked at. This is part of the reason Palpatine is all but absent in the lead position right now IMO.

obiwanjabroni

Ben was stronger than emperor. This makes sense.

Obipan

Palpatine killed every jedi... EVERY! He would have demolished ben

scuba

Obipan wrote: »

Darth Vader killed a bunch of the jedi...

Corrected that statement for you

Nastynas91

Pyramidshawn wrote: »

gatormatt wrote: »

Palpatine reduces potency, meaning Obi's mind tricks has less chance of sticking.

That is the way it is supposed to work. Unfortunately, Ben is landing at the same rate even against opponents who's Bens should be as low as 0% after Palpatine's lead potency reduction.

Definitely needs to be looked at. This is part of the reason Palpatine is all but absent in the lead position right now IMO.

It's been an obvious bug from the get-go. Obi-wan has consistently landed his debuffs on every character since his use. It's unheard of

CaptainDwindleton

obiwanjabroni wrote: »

Ben was stronger than emperor. This makes sense.

What since when? No.

Also by that logic then why is Boba Fett weaker than Leia (even though Leia is awesome)?

Pyramidshawn

Nastynas91 wrote: »

Pyramidshawn wrote: »

gatormatt wrote: »

Palpatine reduces potency, meaning Obi's mind tricks has less chance of sticking.

That is the way it is supposed to work. Unfortunately, Ben is landing at the same rate even against opponents who's Bens should be as low as 0% after Palpatine's lead potency reduction.

Definitely needs to be looked at. This is part of the reason Palpatine is all but absent in the lead position right now IMO.

It's been an obvious bug from the get-go. Obi-wan has consistently landed his debuffs on every character since his use. It's unheard of

Yes, and isn't it counterintuitive when you introduce a new character (a pivotal one I might add) with the intention to specifically counter Old Ben (negative evasion and potency to jedi/rebels, when rebels hardly have any characters that rely on potency) when it doesn't work in the first place.

Very derpish on their part

Nikoms565

I would have to agree. I've only fought an OB lead 2 or 3 times with a Palp lead, but Ben seemed to land just as many offense down and ability blocks as usual. Certainly not 1/3 less. I concede a very limited sample size, but each time I thought "Isn't this what a Palpatine lead is supposed to be for?"

LastJedi

It's been an obvious bug from the get-go. Obi-wan has consistently landed his debuffs on every character since his use. It's unheard of

. I agree it seems fishy. But FWIW, my G9 Ben can't land a single debuff in PvE above LSB level 6 or 7.

Wrecker1127

Well the ability sticks so well because it's a 100% chance to inflict ability block and offense down as long as it passes the tenacity check. Most toons have about 30 percent tenacity so that's still a 70% chance it will work with 0% potency. A better metric for success is to see how many toons are affected by the TM reductions since it's only an 80% chance to land.

LastJedi

Wrecker1127 wrote: »

Well the ability sticks so well because it's a 100% chance to inflict ability block and offense down as long as it passes the tenacity check. Most toons have about 30 percent tenacity so that's still a 70% chance it will work with 0% potency. A better metric for success is to see how many toons are affected by the TM reductions since it's only an 80% chance to land.

No, not at all. A lot of toons have abilities that are 100%, but which appear to get resisted more often than Ben. Ben has always (seemingly) batted above his potency level.

100% is as fine a metric as any. Compared to say RG/Daka stun. Or QGJ TM. Or Rex TM. Or anybody, really. Anytime it doesn't explicitly say X%, it is 100%. Plo Koon might be a useable toon if he had Ben's luck.

Wrecker1127

I can't say what Plo's problem is as I haven't unlocked him but from what I understand a debuff has to pass through two checks. The first being if your toon lands it for example 60% chance to stun with Daka. Then it passes the tenacity check and with Daka she has 50% potency so it erases almost all toons tenacity so they just have the 15% base chance to resist. So the odds of landing her debuff on a toon with less than 50% tenacity is 55%. So if you take into account Ben 100% chance to land debuff with 0% potency and you do MT on Plap. He has a base 31% tenacity so he only has a 31% chance to miss the debuff.

Wrecker1127

I've had similar bad luck against Han's shoot first ability. I've fought him three times and only resisted once with Palp lead.

Wrecker1127

I also don't think potency affects dispel in Plo's case.

Tiggus

Hmmm... Sidious landed a lot of dots with 0 potency. Most toons have tenacity < 50% so effects still land more often that not with 0 potency.

Try adding tenacity mods to one of your toons and see if he gets immune?

Pyramidshawn

Tiggus wrote: »

Hmmm... Sidious landed a lot of dots with 0 potency. Most toons have tenacity < 50% so effects still land more often that not with 0 potency.

Quite the contrary. People were complaining that his healing immunity (also 100%) was never landing at 0% potency and this is pre tenacity mods. His aoe also gets resisted by most of my B/C team squad (sometimes by every single member) with regularity.

Wrecker1127

Sid's abilities land more often than not with 0% potency. If you notice they don't it probably just bad RNG. Ben's ability though is quiet unique. Since the ability applies no damage it can't be dodged which happens to a lot of other abilities. He's also putting 10 visual debuffs and five TM debuffs on a squad. It's hard to keep track to notice if the TM debuffs are working, but I can say from personal experience he rarely gets all ten debuffs at base potency.

Captain_Reynolds

Nikoms565 wrote: »

I would have to agree. I've only fought an OB lead 2 or 3 times with a Palp lead, but Ben seemed to land just as many offense down and ability blocks as usual. Certainly not 1/3 less. I concede a very limited sample size, but each time I thought "Isn't this what a Palpatine lead is supposed to be for?"

Yeah I've yet to see any match where Bens special seemed mitigated. Seems to be just as sticky as it has been before using EP.

escorpion8888

When I fight against an Ep lead my old Ben's mind tricks seem to very rarely land. It's either the AI getting the bonus that so many talk about or it's just human perception thinking it is less. I have never kept track of the exact numbers either way so I honestly don't know. But I do know going against him his leader bonus seems anything but bugged.

Pyramidshawn

Captain_Reynolds wrote: »

Nikoms565 wrote: »

I would have to agree. I've only fought an OB lead 2 or 3 times with a Palp lead, but Ben seemed to land just as many offense down and ability blocks as usual. Certainly not 1/3 less. I concede a very limited sample size, but each time I thought "Isn't this what a Palpatine lead is supposed to be for?"

Yeah I've yet to see any match where Bens special seemed mitigated. Seems to be just as sticky as it has been before using EP.

Which is strange because it is clearly one of the main purposes of Palp's lead.