However... Since clone wars is canon... It doesn't change the fact that she was a Sith Apprentice, trained by a Sith Lord, trained in the Sith Ways, to help kill her Master's master, to become a Sith. As is the way of the Sith.
She failed to do that though.
Maybe give her the tag "Sith Wannabe" or "Worst Sith ever".
Even after Anakin killed Dooku, he didn't become Sith until after the clash with Windu.
However... Since clone wars is canon... It doesn't change the fact that she was a Sith Apprentice, trained by a Sith Lord, trained in the Sith Ways, to help kill her Master's master, to become a Sith. As is the way of the Sith.
She failed to do that though.
Maybe give her the tag "Sith Wannabe" or "Worst Sith ever".
Even after Anakin killed Dooku, he didn't become Sith until after the clash with Windu.
A bit of apples and oranges but still...
She failed because palp became afraid of her and forced dooku to turn on her. Sounds like she was doing pretty good in the sith in training to make the baddest bad be afraid of her.
(The baddest bad who happened to single handedly take down both Maul and Savage simultaneously... But was afraid of her)
All discussion of whether she's a true Sith aside, the Sith label wouldn't really help her much. Her main problem is speed. Under Emp she'd gain more health and potency, under Vader she'd get better offense, and under Maul she'd gain more evasion. What she really needs is speed and TM gain to be a viable hero. Even speed-enhancing mods can only bump that up so far, and are better used on other heroes. Though perhaps if her leader speed bonus also applied to Sith she could be a viable Sith leader, as most Sith are rather slow.
At the start of most matches she has a base speed of 179, against auto-taunters it would be 164. Either way she is one of the fastest out the gate in terms of first turn speed. So I think CG did try to address what USED to be one of her main problems of being slow, now they just need to address how horrible the AI uses her (something akin to how they tweeked yoda to make him less terrible on defense).
I vote that she's both a Sith and a Scoundrel. If Ahsoka is a Jedi, Asajj is a Sith. And while we're at it, add Vader to droids. He's more machine now than man. Right? RIGHT?!?!?
I'm all for Asajj being a sith so that we can use her under an EP lead. However, Asajj was never canonically a sith. She was an assassin for Darth Tyranus(Dooku), then later she became a bounty hunter of sorts. So if anything she could get the scoundrel or bounty hunter tag, but unfortunately she was never a sith. I know it's confusing because she had lightsabers and used the force, so you'd think that's automatic sith criteria.
For Savage it's easy because Maul took him as his apprentice. An argument could be made for Savage as a night sister/brother factions which is plausible.
However, Ventress is a little complicated. We could assume that her training under Dooku and flash back training as a Jedi are just internships to her true identity as a night sister with force abilities.
I think the key here is how long the character is associated with the role and how the role defines him/her. Therefore, Maul and Savage are both Sith whereas Ventress is a night sister with force abilities.
I believe savage is considered a sith is bc of how ruthless he was his first appearance he practically destroys all the battle droids and clones and practically defeats 2 jedi with a staff
I don't mean to be picky, but he DOES defeat two Jedi with just a staff. One of which is a master, as well as a squad of clones. The droids that got in his way were ripped apart as well.
Thought he used a poleax?
Left by design. The fixed payout times are the worst part of this game and makes it absolutely family-unfriendly.
+1 If they can give Savage Opress the Sith tag (despite being just a tool) and General Grievious the Droid tag (despite him being a living being, not a droid, a Kaleesh alien) they could take some liberty and make Asajj Ventress a Sith, l mean, she is evil, she has red lightsabers, uses the Dark Side of the Force and works under Dooku a Sith Lord, her master (as well as S.Opress, and he is labeled as a Sith in-game btw).
She is evil? She freed a lil girl from a forced marriage and she helped Ahsoka finding the traitor in jedi order. She saved Obi-Wans Life when Maul was about to kill him and helped him to escape (though it was just random she was there because she was after Savage to get his head money, but she could just left him there dying anyways).
Left by design. The fixed payout times are the worst part of this game and makes it absolutely family-unfriendly.
Facts- Dooku taught her as his apprentice
-Asajj was not Sith when she started
-Sidious feared her power, more than Dooku's, Maul's and Savage's
-dooku intended to overthrow Sidious with her (Dark Disciple)
-In Dark Disciple she says she is a former Sith
-she knows far more of the dark side than all inquisitors combined
-Starwars.com labelled her sith for a year before retconning it once inquisitors appeared in Rebels
-she is educated in combating force lightning a sith secret Dooku said he would not teach savage
-to become a sith one has to be trained in the ways of the sith - filoni. Can anyone deny she was trained in sith methods of torture and power manipulation? The inquisitors never recieved the training she did
In conclusion, all evidence points to her being at the very least the Sith equivalent of a padawan. While the inquisitors are simply dark side adepts she has deep knowledge of the dark side. To the point where it is clear Dooku did not believe in or seek to follow the rule of two. Ingame I am fine with her not being a Sith, however to call her equal to the inquisitors or a dark jedi from the Expanded Universe is far too narrow for her. She was a Sith when Dooku was ordered to kill her. She was as powerful as Anakin after he turned and knew more of the dark side than darth vader did throughout the Revenge of the Sith and yet he gets the label immediatly where she is snubbed by fans despite all the facts.
I beg to differ on her being as powerful as Anakin. Maybe if you qualified it, as powerful as Anakin post limb loss, ie handicapped Anakin.
I stand by that statement due to the scene where Asajj overpowers both Anakin and Obi-wan simultaneously. Also, the fights with Dooku after she is betrayed by him. She fights on even ground with Dooku until he begins using force lightning.
My biggest problem with the argument that Asajj is not a Sith comes from the Rule of Two itself. It is not a law, it is a guideline that Sidious, Plaguies and all between him and Bane CHOOSE to adhere to in order acheive their ultimate goal. The Sith believe in power and fear and only use rules and law if it fits with their plan. Part of me believes Dooku is unique among Sith Lords. The only apprentice to have ever been taught force lightning. He wasnt just Sidious' apprentice he was a Sith Master. And as any true Master of a practice there is an inate desire to pass on ones teaching.
The reason the Rule of Two is so important is not because it allowed the Sith to survive in the shadows without internal conflict, but because the Jedi believed it was 100% correct. They believed it was infallible. If two there must be, then Asajj is the apprentice during the Majority of the clone wars and Dooku the master. Essential for Sidious to remain hidden. From the Jedi perspective she is Sith, and who better to give the label than a jedi? Once there would have been hundreds of sith and the labels of Darth or the number two did not determine their label. Why should one rule, conceived originallyy to convince the Jedi the Sith were extinct, determine the number of sith, especially when that rule must have abeen broken at its beginning. Bane made the rule right? Then told the jedi about it...So they would've executed him and an apprentice and believed the only two sith were dead. Meanwhile, another sith must have existed to keep the order alive. To me that is common sense.
I dont care if they change her tag in game but to deny she is Sith is naive. Previous quotes have more evidence I collected. I dare you to prove me wrong.
Star Wars.Com Character profiles, they you will find Lucas Arts & Disney do not count her as a Sith. They are the cannon guys if they say its not then I gotta go with them
Let's put this into perspective shall we. Ventress wasn't a sith. At all. She was merely a tool trained and utilized by count dooku and sidous. The rule of two states that there can only be two! In episode 1 Darth Maul WAS sidious' apprentice until he was killed. Between the events of episode 1 & 2, Dooku was made sidious' apprentice which then reinstated the rule of two.
Then how would you explain Savage? Sidious was already master with Dooku as apprentice. Ventriss was certainly a dark force user, maybe not technically a full Sith. But your logic is flawed.The rule of two was never taken as an absolute by moth Sith Lords.
There can be more than 2 Sith at 1 time. This is why Maul and Savage were both Sith because Maul was the master now as no longer Sidious's apprentice.
The rule of 2 means that there can only be 2, this means the Sith have to kill each other if more until there is 2 left. This is like Highlander, there can only be one and they have to kill each other until there is one. In Star Wars its 2 Master and Apprentice
Facts- Dooku taught her as his apprentice
-Asajj was not Sith when she started
-Sidious feared her power, more than Dooku's, Maul's and Savage's
-dooku intended to overthrow Sidious with her (Dark Disciple)
-In Dark Disciple she says she is a former Sith
-she knows far more of the dark side than all inquisitors combined
-Starwars.com labelled her sith for a year before retconning it once inquisitors appeared in Rebels
-she is educated in combating force lightning a sith secret Dooku said he would not teach savage
-to become a sith one has to be trained in the ways of the sith - filoni. Can anyone deny she was trained in sith methods of torture and power manipulation? The inquisitors never recieved the training she did
In conclusion, all evidence points to her being at the very least the Sith equivalent of a padawan. While the inquisitors are simply dark side adepts she has deep knowledge of the dark side. To the point where it is clear Dooku did not believe in or seek to follow the rule of two. Ingame I am fine with her not being a Sith, however to call her equal to the inquisitors or a dark jedi from the Expanded Universe is far too narrow for her. She was a Sith when Dooku was ordered to kill her. She was as powerful as Anakin after he turned and knew more of the dark side than darth vader did throughout the Revenge of the Sith and yet he gets the label immediatly where she is snubbed by fans despite all the facts.
I beg to differ on her being as powerful as Anakin. Maybe if you qualified it, as powerful as Anakin post limb loss, ie handicapped Anakin.
I stand by that statement due to the scene where Asajj overpowers both Anakin and Obi-wan simultaneously. Also, the fights with Dooku after she is betrayed by him. She fights on even ground with Dooku until he begins using force lightning.
My biggest problem with the argument that Asajj is not a Sith comes from the Rule of Two itself. It is not a law, it is a guideline that Sidious, Plaguies and all between him and Bane CHOOSE to adhere to in order acheive their ultimate goal. The Sith believe in power and fear and only use rules and law if it fits with their plan. Part of me believes Dooku is unique among Sith Lords. The only apprentice to have ever been taught force lightning. He wasnt just Sidious' apprentice he was a Sith Master. And as any true Master of a practice there is an inate desire to pass on ones teaching.
The reason the Rule of Two is so important is not because it allowed the Sith to survive in the shadows without internal conflict, but because the Jedi believed it was 100% correct. They believed it was infallible. If two there must be, then Asajj is the apprentice during the Majority of the clone wars and Dooku the master. Essential for Sidious to remain hidden. From the Jedi perspective she is Sith, and who better to give the label than a jedi? Once there would have been hundreds of sith and the labels of Darth or the number two did not determine their label. Why should one rule, conceived originallyy to convince the Jedi the Sith were extinct, determine the number of sith, especially when that rule must have abeen broken at its beginning. Bane made the rule right? Then told the jedi about it...So they would've executed him and an apprentice and believed the only two sith were dead. Meanwhile, another sith must have existed to keep the order alive. To me that is common sense.
I dont care if they change her tag in game but to deny she is Sith is naive. Previous quotes have more evidence I collected. I dare you to prove me wrong.
Star Wars.Com Character profiles, they you will find Lucas Arts & Disney do not count her as a Sith. They are the cannon guys if they say its not then I gotta go with them
Like I said in a previous post, that starwars.com profile was retconned about a year ago. Before that her profile called her a Sith Apprentice/Assassin. Also, since Dark Disciple is a book, It takes priority over any starwars.com material. The book calls her a Sith. They changed Asajj the same way they changed Han's scene with Greedo. With an after the fact change that is disruptive for the lore.
She was trained as a Sith. Although never becoming a Sith herself she is still considered affiliated with Sith by virtue of her training.
It's right there on the official site under 'Affiliations' where it states: "Nightsister, Sith"
She should have Sith added to her in-game affiliations.
Keep in mind, affiliations doesn't mean someone WAS Sith directly but was affiliated with it meaning they were aligned and battled for their faction. That's kind of the point of the affiliations and I'm surprised they didn't simply pull hers from the official site given their license.
I agree with @kalidor she does need speed or something to get her to attack more often - I personally use her on a team with Phasma lead in GW and she works great.
Having said that - she was a sith. Not a sith lord but was certainly a sith assassin and was apprentice to Dooku so she should have a correct label as sith as well as nightsister and separatist. So what if the list as long, as long as the list is correct.
I think she should also get Synergy with Dooku, perhaps a strike on target whenever Dooku successfully stuns that target or something.
Her getting extra potency through an EP lead wouldn't be bad either as her stun basic attack barely works - extra potency there would be helpful.
But yes - more speed/rate of attack is key for this character - but so is for Maul.
Having said that - she was a sith. Not a sixth lord but was certainly a sith assassin and was apprentice to Dooku so she should have a correct label as sith as well as nightsister and separatist. So what if the list as long, as long as the list is correct.
If that's the case Jedi knight anakin should have the sith tag as well. He turned to the dark side & became sids apprentice. We can nitpick with a lot of characters. Asajj isn't a sith just face it. Asajj in game is the Asajj that return to the nightsisters.
Having said that - she was a sith. Not a sixth lord but was certainly a sith assassin and was apprentice to Dooku so she should have a correct label as sith as well as nightsister and separatist. So what if the list as long, as long as the list is correct.
If that's the case Jedi knight anakin should have the sith tag as well. He turned to the dark side & became sids apprentice. We can nitpick with a lot of characters. Asajj isn't a sith just face it. Asajj in game is the Asajj that return to the nightsisters.
Having said that - she was a sith. Not a sixth lord but was certainly a sith assassin and was apprentice to Dooku so she should have a correct label as sith as well as nightsister and separatist. So what if the list as long, as long as the list is correct.
If that's the case Jedi knight anakin should have the sith tag as well. He turned to the dark side & became sids apprentice. We can nitpick with a lot of characters. Asajj isn't a sith just face it. Asajj in game is the Asajj that return to the nightsisters.
Also, JKA was never Sith. Upon accepting Sidious' offer to become his apprentice Sid renamed him Darth Vader. He was DV the entire time he was affiliated with Sith.
Assaj was never a sith. She was merely a tool to sell that Dooku was actually the 'master'. She wasn't even trained in the ways of the sith, she had a bit of dark side training from Dooku and became his assassin.
That being said though, Maul was the same. He was never actually trained as a sith, just a weapon for the dark side to use before being cast aside. And yet he has the tag so who knows what factors contribute to who gets tagged as what in this game.
Swap "Maul" with "Savage" and i agree!
Even though Savage could count as a Sith, since Maul took him as Apprentice and trained him as Sith, however, there is the "rule of two" and there was already a rival due (Sidious and Dooku), but well ... for a short time, both duos claimed the title to be the true Siths ... (until sid visited Maul and Savage and assured them, they are not )
He admitted they were "competition".
How are they not sith?
Assaj was never a sith. She was merely a tool to sell that Dooku was actually the 'master'. She wasn't even trained in the ways of the sith, she had a bit of dark side training from Dooku and became his assassin.
That being said though, Maul was the same. He was never actually trained as a sith, just a weapon for the dark side to use before being cast aside. And yet he has the tag so who knows what factors contribute to who gets tagged as what in this game.
Swap "Maul" with "Savage" and i agree!
Even though Savage could count as a Sith, since Maul took him as Apprentice and trained him as Sith, however, there is the "rule of two" and there was already a rival due (Sidious and Dooku), but well ... for a short time, both duos claimed the title to be the true Siths ... (until sid visited Maul and Savage and assured them, they are not )
He admitted they were "competition".
How are they not sith?
They are, this is the misconception about the rule of two many fans dont understand. The rule of two was only meant to keep the sith alive in the shadows and convince the jedi they were extinct. Fans who believe it is an all purpose LAW that governs whether one is sith or not dont trully understand the lore in that aspect, including some of those working within lucasarts. Its just a guideline that the sith CHOOSE to follow until revenge is in hand and guess what? IF snoke is a sith and Sidious trained him at the same time Vader was around GASP!!! Three sith at once. But but but it cant be. My mind can only handle two sith at once!!!
So yes I did some research and the conclusion is that Asajj does not qualify as Sith due to the "two rule".
Asajj was trained to be a Sith by Dooku but she did not complete her trainings/ tasks hence is not an official apprentice aka not a Sith.
Asajj is more of a Dark Jedi or Sith Aspirant.
Case closed.
So where do you draw the line then, and why? Savage is a Sith because Maul proclaimed himself a master and said Savage was his apprentice, but they were never really a threat. Sid walked right into their stronghold and wrecked them without any concern or backup.
Ventress on the other hand, he instructed Dooku to get rid of her because he saw the two of them as a potential threat (and I'm pretty sure he straight up accused Dooku of taking her on as an apprentice though I'll have to rewatch that to confirm or deny).
So where is the line? Does just saying it make it so? Becuase I'm pretty sure she probably considered herself Sith at the time.
Plus any justification using the rule as an absolute is shaky at best. It was routinely ignored or seen as a mere guideline, and it did a terrible job of accomplishing any of the goals it was meant to.
That said...
The rule of two. This argument needs to go out the window immediately, based on what IS canon.
Sid was definitely training more than one apprentice at a time, no question.
The RIGHT question is, according to canon lore, what constitutes a Sith?
In order to become a Sith....
Train under a Sith.
One isn't considered a true Sith until performing one specific act, dependent on the supplicant, the act being to several ties with one's prevous life, through the cold murder of one's closest personal tie(s) to their previous life. In Sid's case, he murdered his parents. In Anakin's case, it was "killing" Padme. Maul, I dunno. Same for Savage, or Assaj. And I've no proof Dooku ever finished formal training either. It gets complicated there, but what we do know is they were all at least partially trained... and in some way could at least be called Sith assassins, but probably not full Sith.
As to whether Assaj fits as a Sith...
I don't think she quite counts, as she wasn't trained by a full Sith. The weak link is, of course, whether Dooku should count, but I'm assuming he does, as Palpatine referred to him as Darth Tyrannosaurus, and Maul as Darth Maul.
But, like I said, it's complicated...
Replies
She failed to do that though.
Maybe give her the tag "Sith Wannabe" or "Worst Sith ever".
Even after Anakin killed Dooku, he didn't become Sith until after the clash with Windu.
A bit of apples and oranges but still...
She failed because palp became afraid of her and forced dooku to turn on her. Sounds like she was doing pretty good in the sith in training to make the baddest bad be afraid of her.
(The baddest bad who happened to single handedly take down both Maul and Savage simultaneously... But was afraid of her)
At the start of most matches she has a base speed of 179, against auto-taunters it would be 164. Either way she is one of the fastest out the gate in terms of first turn speed. So I think CG did try to address what USED to be one of her main problems of being slow, now they just need to address how horrible the AI uses her (something akin to how they tweeked yoda to make him less terrible on defense).
Thought he used a poleax?
The fixed payout times are the worst part of this game and makes it absolutely family-unfriendly.
She is evil? She freed a lil girl from a forced marriage and she helped Ahsoka finding the traitor in jedi order. She saved Obi-Wans Life when Maul was about to kill him and helped him to escape (though it was just random she was there because she was after Savage to get his head money, but she could just left him there dying anyways).
The fixed payout times are the worst part of this game and makes it absolutely family-unfriendly.
Seperatist
Dark Side
Light Side
Jedi
Bounty Hunter
Rebel
This aint gonna happen so just give it up.
Asajj was more jedi than sith by a longshot.
Star Wars.Com Character profiles, they you will find Lucas Arts & Disney do not count her as a Sith. They are the cannon guys if they say its not then I gotta go with them
There can be more than 2 Sith at 1 time. This is why Maul and Savage were both Sith because Maul was the master now as no longer Sidious's apprentice.
The rule of 2 means that there can only be 2, this means the Sith have to kill each other if more until there is 2 left. This is like Highlander, there can only be one and they have to kill each other until there is one. In Star Wars its 2 Master and Apprentice
Like I said in a previous post, that starwars.com profile was retconned about a year ago. Before that her profile called her a Sith Apprentice/Assassin. Also, since Dark Disciple is a book, It takes priority over any starwars.com material. The book calls her a Sith. They changed Asajj the same way they changed Han's scene with Greedo. With an after the fact change that is disruptive for the lore.
Dooku trained Maul is Sith...so why not Asajj.
It would excellent to include Asajj in a all
Sith team.
Dooku didn't train maul. Sid did
She was trained as a Sith. Although never becoming a Sith herself she is still considered affiliated with Sith by virtue of her training.
It's right there on the official site under 'Affiliations' where it states: "Nightsister, Sith"
She should have Sith added to her in-game affiliations.
Keep in mind, affiliations doesn't mean someone WAS Sith directly but was affiliated with it meaning they were aligned and battled for their faction. That's kind of the point of the affiliations and I'm surprised they didn't simply pull hers from the official site given their license.
In that sense, she is most definitely Sith.
Outfit makes it so
Having said that - she was a sith. Not a sith lord but was certainly a sith assassin and was apprentice to Dooku so she should have a correct label as sith as well as nightsister and separatist. So what if the list as long, as long as the list is correct.
I think she should also get Synergy with Dooku, perhaps a strike on target whenever Dooku successfully stuns that target or something.
Her getting extra potency through an EP lead wouldn't be bad either as her stun basic attack barely works - extra potency there would be helpful.
But yes - more speed/rate of attack is key for this character - but so is for Maul.
If that's the case Jedi knight anakin should have the sith tag as well. He turned to the dark side & became sids apprentice. We can nitpick with a lot of characters. Asajj isn't a sith just face it. Asajj in game is the Asajj that return to the nightsisters.
That's not what her outfit says...
Also, JKA was never Sith. Upon accepting Sidious' offer to become his apprentice Sid renamed him Darth Vader. He was DV the entire time he was affiliated with Sith.
He admitted they were "competition".
How are they not sith?
They are, this is the misconception about the rule of two many fans dont understand. The rule of two was only meant to keep the sith alive in the shadows and convince the jedi they were extinct. Fans who believe it is an all purpose LAW that governs whether one is sith or not dont trully understand the lore in that aspect, including some of those working within lucasarts. Its just a guideline that the sith CHOOSE to follow until revenge is in hand and guess what? IF snoke is a sith and Sidious trained him at the same time Vader was around GASP!!! Three sith at once. But but but it cant be. My mind can only handle two sith at once!!!
So yes I did some research and the conclusion is that Asajj does not qualify as Sith due to the "two rule".
Asajj was trained to be a Sith by Dooku but she did not complete her trainings/ tasks hence is not an official apprentice aka not a Sith.
Asajj is more of a Dark Jedi or Sith Aspirant.
Case closed.
So where do you draw the line then, and why? Savage is a Sith because Maul proclaimed himself a master and said Savage was his apprentice, but they were never really a threat. Sid walked right into their stronghold and wrecked them without any concern or backup.
Ventress on the other hand, he instructed Dooku to get rid of her because he saw the two of them as a potential threat (and I'm pretty sure he straight up accused Dooku of taking her on as an apprentice though I'll have to rewatch that to confirm or deny).
So where is the line? Does just saying it make it so? Becuase I'm pretty sure she probably considered herself Sith at the time.
Plus any justification using the rule as an absolute is shaky at best. It was routinely ignored or seen as a mere guideline, and it did a terrible job of accomplishing any of the goals it was meant to.
The official star wars site begs to differ. Her affiliation is very clearly 'Nightsister, Sith'.
So many argue.
Much questions.
Wowe.
That said...
The rule of two. This argument needs to go out the window immediately, based on what IS canon.
Sid was definitely training more than one apprentice at a time, no question.
The RIGHT question is, according to canon lore, what constitutes a Sith?
In order to become a Sith....
Train under a Sith.
One isn't considered a true Sith until performing one specific act, dependent on the supplicant, the act being to several ties with one's prevous life, through the cold murder of one's closest personal tie(s) to their previous life. In Sid's case, he murdered his parents. In Anakin's case, it was "killing" Padme. Maul, I dunno. Same for Savage, or Assaj. And I've no proof Dooku ever finished formal training either. It gets complicated there, but what we do know is they were all at least partially trained... and in some way could at least be called Sith assassins, but probably not full Sith.
As to whether Assaj fits as a Sith...
I don't think she quite counts, as she wasn't trained by a full Sith. The weak link is, of course, whether Dooku should count, but I'm assuming he does, as Palpatine referred to him as Darth Tyrannosaurus, and Maul as Darth Maul.
But, like I said, it's complicated...