TFA Haters
Is it just me or is everyone also annoyed by the continuous bashing of TFA haters? Every time a topic is all about a Star Wars movie, a random person will comment how bad TFA is EVEN if it's not relevant to the topic, then the haters will swarm and attack anyone who says that TFA is good. Also, they keep saying that the prequels are better than TFA. Really? The prequels were trash except the story itself.
To all of you haters, just because you didn't understand or like a scene doesn't mean it's a plot hole (ex. Kylo losing to Rey in a fight isn't a plot hole). Just because Rey is powerful doesn't mean that she is a Mary Sue. We still don't know her backstory and Ep. 8 and 9 aren't out yet so calling her a Mary Sue is absurd. And finally, just because the movie is almost similar to ANH doesn't mean that it's automatically a rehash.
To all of you haters, just because you didn't understand or like a scene doesn't mean it's a plot hole (ex. Kylo losing to Rey in a fight isn't a plot hole). Just because Rey is powerful doesn't mean that she is a Mary Sue. We still don't know her backstory and Ep. 8 and 9 aren't out yet so calling her a Mary Sue is absurd. And finally, just because the movie is almost similar to ANH doesn't mean that it's automatically a rehash.
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At any rate, it needed to reboot the franchise after the disaster of the prequels. The animated shows did what they could to at least make some of the garbage aspects (Anakin) seem cool. Nevertheless, many of us were soured by the prequels and really had no hopes for TFA.
The prequels are objectively bad movies, in spite of Ewan taking the whole thing seriously enough...
But there are things that I loved when I was little, and still enjoy, that are objectively bad.
Had I seen the prequels when I was little...maybe I would feel differently. I dunno, maybe kids in the 90s loved trade negotiations and senate hearings way more than I realized.
The Force Awakens was a nice warm blanket and a reassurance that the franchise was in good hands.
If you didn't need it to be that...well good for you.
Why?
Kylo ren was terribly weak in discipline, common sense and character. He wasn't a leader, instead he behaved like a spoiled brat who constantly threw temper tantrums when things didn't go his way. It was pretty awesome though, when he stopped the blaster bolt midair, not gonna lie.
Finn doesn't make much sense either. First order stormtroopers are trained and brain washed from birth; they make it through a many years of training and a lifetime of military service and are bred to have unwavering loyalty and discipline. Finn, for some reason, does not possess those desirable features. There is absolutely no reason, in his entire life of service to the first order, that would be the only bad thing he's seen. There's no reason to have him separate from his unit, and not fighting and killing alongside his brothers in arms. On the topic of loyalty and discipline, phasma sure broke pretty quick, and allowed the resistance to kill the whole massive planet-slayer.
In organized and effective military organizations, no one works as an individual. They operate cohesively in the fire team, squad, platoon, etc. It's teamwork that makes them deadly, whether or not they disregard fallen comrades. The first order lacks this, and appears crude because of it. Think of the Greek Spartans. Raised to be the first truly professional soldiers, boys were taken from home to enter a grueling lifetime of military service, through the agoge. Attacking their phalanx was almost suicide, and it was because of their teamwork. Modern military forces move together as if one massive scythe wielding skeleton devastating anything in their path.
Phasma was caught off guard while patrolling alone. The first order should have been alerted at this point when she is not performing routine patrols and has not checked in. They paid no attention to Finn taking an important prisoner to a tie fighter. They should have been able to handle a rogue tie fighter that was tethered to the hangar.
To sum it all up, though Luke and anakin both had "Mary Sue" aspects, Rey takes it to another level. Finn's behavior is an outlier that, given the training and brain washing, simply shouldn't be. The first order is crudely built, and seems to lack awareness, discipline, basic military cohesiveness, and effective leadership. These are my problems with tfa. It's not "hating" or nostalgia, I just don't like it because of these flaws.
Theres a difference between a flawed character and a bad character. Rey being good at everything doesnt make her a bad character. The implausability of finn deserting the FO doesnt make him a bad character. Kylo Ren having insecurities and not being "as strong as darth vader" doesnt make him a bad character.
All of these characters are unique and have real personality. Just because you personally dont like their back stories or weren't what you were expecting doesnt make them bad characters
Nobody likes Disney being a know it all with Rey.
What does that even mean?
Yes on point 1. On point 2 remember Kylo had been shot by a bowcaster bolt so I imagine that must take a lot of his concentration and ability. On point 3, I thought this was over-the-top too, but remember how much time she has spent in those star destroyers. She scavenged every last part out of them, she must know them inside and out.
Yes, agreed on all points. But I don't think that makes him a bad character. Think of all the despots and tyrants in the real world who act similarly (Udai Hussein comes to mind). Powerful men with poor character are quite dangerous and can be effective leaders, despite being horrible to work for.
On Finn, he was a janitor for much of his service- perhaps he hadn't encountered the horrible things of which the first order was capable? On Phasma, I completely agree. She'd have died before she betrayed the first order. That part made no sense.
You make many valid points and I can understand the frustration with TFA, but for my part I was just happy to have a new Star Wars film that wasn't filled with Jar Jar, Bantha poo doo, lame one-liners about sand, and Trade Federations. Oh, and Natalie Portman... Can't stand her. I was entertained by TFA and it didn't make me cringe at the dialogue... That's all I wanted.
-Sun Tzu
She also repaired a flight simulator that she spent many hours going through every procedure she could think of. Hold on I will find one of my other posts on this forum with sources.
"This is addressed in the novelization of the movie by Alan Dean Foster.
Rey says that she used to sneak into the Millennium Falcon (and other ships owned by Unkar Plutt) at night and learnt a lot that way. That was how she was able to produce accurate information about the Falcon and its constituent parts.
“I’d spent some time poking around all the ships parked at the outpost. Mostly at night. It was a way to learn some things. I was careful, and nobody much cared anyway, since I never took anything or tried anything.” She brightened. “Made it a lot easier when we filched this one. Though it wasn’t my first choice.”
Though that covers the familiarity with the Falcon's controls, it doesn't say anything about her piloting abilities - that is explained in the prequel novel, Before the Awakening by Greg Rucka.
"During one of her scavenging trips, she came across a flight simulator program, that she installed on a computer that she built from parts that she found. With nothing else to do for most of the time, she kept practicing relentlessly on the simulator, until she ultimately became an expert at various situations on different kinds of ships.
She learned so much that there was little the program could throw her way that would challenge her now. She’d gotten to the point where she would, quite deliberately, do everything she could think of to make things hard on herself, just to see if she could get out of it. Full-throttle atmospheric reentry with repulsor-engine failure? No sweat. Multiple hull breach deep-space engine flameout? A walk in the park.'"
If a character's flaws cause them to no longer make sense, then through poor writing and development they are a bad character.
I agree that being good at everything doesn't equate to being a bad character. But, there is only so far that can go before suspension of disbelief dissipates.
I never meant to say that kylo was a bad character because he wasn't as strong as Vader or because of his insecurities. He's a bad character because every aspect of him is terribly frail. He has no maturity whatsoever, displayed by his obnoxious behavior with whining and throwing tantrums like a spoiled child. He was inept as a leader and allowed Finn, poe, and Rey to escape him against a small band of insurgents.
On the other hand, saying that just because I personally don't like their back stories doesn't make them bad characters is a fair and valid point. After all, I am only human and not free from bias.
What are your opinions on the characters?
That's fine with me and explains alot, but why wasn't that shown in the movie? Most people don't want to read books and whatever to cover plot holes.
Honestly I think because it milks people for more money to spend looking into the backstory of things.
Like GG in rots. Without watching clone wars or knowing the history. You'd have no idea who this guy is and why he matters. Also doesn't he say something like master Kenobi, we meet again.
Without rebels you wouldn't know how the rebel faction formed. In the jump from rots - ANH they kind of just come out of nowhere with a big organization of people.
Without the clone wars, you honestly wouldn't know who half of the Jedi/people in the prequels even are.
That's just a few examples, TFA had more than all characters in the original 6 episodes combined.
Well it's 30 years after the OT. So I'd expect there to be alot of characters in the movie that we know little about.
I feel like they should've still given some backstory on more characters
They're just teasing us so we come back.
They may flesh out characters in the sequel's through flashbacks or we could get a cartoon connecting the OT to the ST.
Idk, but I'm pretty hyped to see how everything pans out tbh. I really enjoy the new characters.
I think ANH works best on its own out of all of the movies. Mostly since it was made as a stand alone movie that mimics classic sci-fi serials like flash gordon. You have the reluctant protagonist, the old wizard, damsel somewhat-in-distress, etc. you only are told what you need to know. Yes, obi-wan and vader are relics of an older time but you're told what you need to be told and nothing more. Luke follows the hero cycle and the evil is (supposedly) defeated.
With TFA, the producers knew there were going to be sequels so they kept lots of information a mystery that will be revealed at a later time.
She can perform mind tricks because she is either related to a very powerful Jedi who can do mind tricks like Obi-Wan or she was trained when she was only a child but her memory was erased which is coming back. Also, Luke wasn't even trained on how to perform mind tricks but he did it in RotJ, and the funny thing is that no one is going to complain about him.
She defeated Kylo because he was shot by Chewie's bowcaster and was wounded by Finn, making Rey have an advantage. That just shows how strong Kylo is because a normal person could've died from those injuries.
It's because he's still young, emotionally unstable, and has more to learn unlike Vader. Isn't that how the dark side works? Always angry and whiny and always want things to go their way. Or is it because Kylo has Skywalker blood? Anakin and Luke were whiny so it would make sense that Kylo should too.
If you were paying attention to the movie, Finn was assigned in sanitation and it was the first time he did a mission (going to Jakku). Of course, if you saw an old innocent man getting killed by your leader and slaughtering a whole group of villagers wouldn't you turn away from the First Order? About Phasma, what if she is secretly part of the Resistance and purposely turned off the shield generators lol. Besides, she is going to play a big role on TLJ so who knows.
I thought First Order has teamwork. Phasma reporting to Kylo, stormtroopers helping together to destroy the Resistance, etc.
Probably because the First Order was too busy on preparing their weapon to destroy the Resistance base when Phasma was kidnapped. Finn taking Poe to a TIE Fighter was like Stormtrooper Han arresting Chewie in the Death Star because no one in the FO/Empire cares about each other.
Please give your statement an explanation.
That's not the point. The point is that TFA haters who constantly whine and complain in the internet about TFA being bad are obnoxious, unlike the people who hate the prequels because they don't keep on posting how bad it was on the internet. I'm completely fine with people who doesn't like TFA but give clear and constructive criticism. It seems like very few are those people unfortunately.
Really evil ****, or a bad-turned-good savior.
Don't care, love the character and disappointed there wasn't more screen time for her
Phasma is pretty much the same as Boba Fett was when Empire came out. They look really cool, people get hyped about them, but then they dont do anything, they hardly have any dialogue, and they go out like a wuss
http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Star-Wars-Episode-8-Feature-Whole-Lot-More-One-Side-Character-101547.html
Mentions the similarity to boba, and the intent to not make the same mistake
Look, I like TFA and I think the prequels are a flaming heap of rotting garbage that should be erased from existence not very good, but I disagree on your assessment of how people's opinions on the movies are expressed. I assure you that prequel-haters like me are just as prevalent on the internet and can be just as rude as the people who hate on TFA. There are plenty of people on every side that whine and complain without using specific evidence or arguments. And there are people on every side who do construct thought-out arguments to defend their beliefs. Also, just because you dont agree with another person doesn't automatically mean their arguments aren't worth considering.
I think I have had some pretty decent debates with @3Cheers4Tyranny on these subjects. We disagree on a LOT, but we have often found some common ground and always listen to each other's arguments. If we disagree on something, we don't attack the other person, we attack their arguments.
I don't think you understand me. I only hate the type of haters who keeps posting their criticisms everywhere on the internet and who posts about how bad the movie was which is not even related/relevant to the main topic. I've seen these people on YouTube, when a video is about Star Wars, a comment will appear saying that TFA is garbage or something like that. Those are the haters that I find annoying.
I see what you mean, and I think thats just because of the relevance of TFA. For probably a decade the same would be said of the prequel haters but now hating the prequels is too "mainstream".
Edit: Anybody notice that when Disney bought Lucasfilm there was an absolute FLOOD of online blogs and articles that started praising the prequels for their "action" and "underrated merit"? Seems to me like somebody was trying to reinvigorate the franchise by paying online magazines and blogs to make terrible top ten lists.