The ability to speak does not make one intelligent

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DarkLord7
241 posts Member
edited April 17
Quote by QGJ. Some smug people in the forums are going on about how DR Malak is far more balanced after zFinn and zEP have been nerfed as viable counters than JKR meta was. Do these people realize that Traya teams could beat JKR the entire time? JKR was annoying, to be sure. But Traya could climb. How are we supposed to beat Malak? The whole point is they're anti JKR, zEP is nerfed, I hear CLS is a poor matchup, and zFinn no longer exists for our purposes. NS? I doubt it, for the damage this team puts out. "We want rock paper scissors (as part of a long term execution)." The recent action taken to undercut what was perhaps the best example of meta balance since the arrival of Traya almost a year ago makes it hard to take that message as seriously. DR, JKR, and zEP seemed to form a spectacular rock paper scissors: each team dominated one and was beatable by one, not to mention a potential for 1-2 other teams to break into any of them. DR held the upper hand, which is fair, he's the newest. Perhaps Malak needed a boost to prepare for the end game vision of rock paper scissors... But if that is the case, why did he need to be buffed now to disrupt the current balance instead of later when the balance requires it? If the latest paywall characters (which I understand must be introduced) are going to have any strong opposition removed, then what evidence of there is a real intent for future balance, even with the addition of new journey characters to the game? Why would the nature of meta balance change then if not now?
*Comment revised to acknowledge the full statement made by CG*
Post edited by DarkLord7 on

Replies

  • Fahrius
    620 posts Member
    jkr beats dr with malak, droids are beating dr with malak in around 30 seconds, cls can do it too with a bit of luck...
    https://swgoh.gg/u/fahrius/ - Discord - Fahrius#1194
  • I suggest they should nerf all toons to oblivion and just leave revan and malak as working toons it would be easier
  • Dk_rek
    3136 posts Member
    edited April 16
    Can i get my QGJ zeta back imo ?
  • Kyno
    21361 posts Moderator
    DarkLord7 wrote: »
    Quote by QGJ. Some smug people in the forums are going on about how DR Malak is far more balanced after zFinn and zEP have been nerfed as viable counters than JKR meta was. Do these people realize that Traya teams could beat JKR the entire time? JKR was annoying, to be sure. But Traya could climb. How are we supposed to beat Malak? The whole point is they're anti JKR, zEP is nerfed, I hear CLS is a poor matchup, and zFinn no longer exists for our purposes. NS? I doubt it, for the damage this team puts out. "We want rock paper scissors." Clearly that was not true, because we had a perfect rock paper scissors of DR beats JKR beats zEP beats DR. Nope. Rock paper scissors as in P2P has the rock, paper, AND scissors, while those of us who spend less than $200 have... Nothing.

    It is hard for something to be true when it is misquoted

    2hk1y8ukgz3l.jpg
  • Does the title apply to you as well? Asking for a friend.
  • Fact: the only people who want an unbeatable team are the people who have that unbeatable team. This is all you need to know about the state of humanity and people's selfish interests.
  • Nikoms565
    11076 posts Member
    Fahrius wrote: »
    jkr beats dr with malak, droids are beating dr with malak in around 30 seconds, cls can do it too with a bit of luck...

    Not at top levels. I have a 318 speed CLS maxed team. Against the right comp and a full g12 Malak (yes, there is at least one on my launch shard) CLS team has no chance. Not even a little bit.
    In game name: Lucas Gregory - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: TNR Uprising
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
  • Fahrius wrote: »
    jkr beats dr with malak, droids are beating dr with malak in around 30 seconds, cls can do it too with a bit of luck...

    CLS can not do it, he could barely get through DR before Malak and that's talking +150 speed on CLS etc. Also, what JTR team? I have not seen this.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    DarkLord7 wrote: »
    Quote by QGJ. Some smug people in the forums are going on about how DR Malak is far more balanced after zFinn and zEP have been nerfed as viable counters than JKR meta was. Do these people realize that Traya teams could beat JKR the entire time? JKR was annoying, to be sure. But Traya could climb. How are we supposed to beat Malak? The whole point is they're anti JKR, zEP is nerfed, I hear CLS is a poor matchup, and zFinn no longer exists for our purposes. NS? I doubt it, for the damage this team puts out. "We want rock paper scissors." Clearly that was not true, because we had a perfect rock paper scissors of DR beats JKR beats zEP beats DR. Nope. Rock paper scissors as in P2P has the rock, paper, AND scissors, while those of us who spend less than $200 have... Nothing.

    It is hard for something to be true when it is misquoted

    2hk1y8ukgz3l.jpg


    I can appreciate that it was listed as an end goal state. However, when it appears in the short term and is immediately removed, that doesn't send the strongest reinforcing message about future intentions; people have been talking about meta diversity for years, yet we've still seen one meta followed by another since Traya. The devs also said that they would be listening to player feedback about zFinn rework, and the overwhelming majority of feedback I saw conflicted strongly with what was proposed. I won't beat the dead horse, I got my refunded Zeta. The point is that whatever player feedback they received and factored into the kit was not very transparent (which makes it seem non-existent). The definition of rock paper scissors is also somewhat open to interpretation. There always seem to be one or two very specific niche teams that CAN beat something some of the time... But also utterly collapse in the real arena. Many are afraid that their expectations of a rock paper scissors situation is more balanced than the vision held by the devs. Long term and end game are also variable terms. Some reworks that had been acknowledged as necessary took upwards of a year to arrive. In short, with little to base our interpretations of that grandiose declaration on other than the actions actually undertaken, it undercuts the seriousness with which we can appreciate the statement. Nonetheless, your point still stands that the quote is taken somewhat out of context, and I will amend the original phrasing of my post accordingly.
  • VonZant
    3842 posts Member
    Paragraphs will make people more likely to read what you write, FYI.

    Bad Spelling, cruddy punctuation, poor grammar and even **** are not fatal to comprehension of the written word.

    Lack of paragraphs is fatal though.
  • Yeah, maybe it just learned to talk as a parlor trick, like fry.
  • DarkLord7 wrote: »
    However, when it appears in the short term and is immediately removed, that doesn't send the strongest reinforcing message about future intentions...

    This.

    Devs said they considered rock/paper/scissors a worthy goal to work towards.

    They then achieve something that looks a bit like it. And kill it.


    Lets be grown up. The game making money is far more important than achieving a RSP situation. And this has been proven. So let's not use false words and false notions.



  • Fahrius
    620 posts Member
    DarkLord7 wrote: »
    Fahrius wrote: »
    jkr beats dr with malak, droids are beating dr with malak in around 30 seconds, cls can do it too with a bit of luck...

    CLS can not do it, he could barely get through DR before Malak and that's talking +150 speed on CLS etc. Also, what JTR team? I have not seen this.

    Maybe not you, but i heard people doing it, although not reliably... and its a k not a t
    https://swgoh.gg/u/fahrius/ - Discord - Fahrius#1194
  • Kyno wrote: »
    DarkLord7 wrote: »
    Quote by QGJ. Some smug people in the forums are going on about how DR Malak is far more balanced after zFinn and zEP have been nerfed as viable counters than JKR meta was. Do these people realize that Traya teams could beat JKR the entire time? JKR was annoying, to be sure. But Traya could climb. How are we supposed to beat Malak? The whole point is they're anti JKR, zEP is nerfed, I hear CLS is a poor matchup, and zFinn no longer exists for our purposes. NS? I doubt it, for the damage this team puts out. "We want rock paper scissors." Clearly that was not true, because we had a perfect rock paper scissors of DR beats JKR beats zEP beats DR. Nope. Rock paper scissors as in P2P has the rock, paper, AND scissors, while those of us who spend less than $200 have... Nothing.

    It is hard for something to be true when it is misquoted

    2hk1y8ukgz3l.jpg

    LOL

    Do you really believe in that ?? That cant be true, it is TOO obvious. It is an absolute non sense. A future rock paper scissors ? And then what, no more toon added ? End of the game ? We had a rock paper scissors right here right now and it is ALL what people want, whales, dolphins, f2p. But they simply dont care of what people want, they want to milk the whales to dry, period. It is not a game, it is a cash business for them, thats it.
  • leef
    12639 posts Member
    For someone who calls others smug, you sound awefully smug yourself.
    Also, i'm sure people will find a reliable counter to DR/Malak.
    Fact: the only people who want an unbeatable team are the people who have that unbeatable team. This is all you need to know about the state of humanity and people's selfish interests.

    This goes both ways, the only people who complain are the ones who can't beat said "unbeatable team".
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • Yea every team is beatable by a team or 2 atleast not including mirror matches
  • Nauros
    2739 posts Member
    Yea every team is beatable by a team or 2 atleast not including mirror matches

    Give me 2 non-mirror teams that reliably beat well modded, full G12 DR team with Malak, I'm listening. If you could accompany it with some proof and not just guesswork, that would be great.
    Revive the stores, the game needs it.
  • leef
    12639 posts Member
    Nauros wrote: »
    Yea every team is beatable by a team or 2 atleast not including mirror matches

    Give me 2 non-mirror teams that reliably beat well modded, full G12 DR team with Malak, I'm listening. If you could accompany it with some proof and not just guesswork, that would be great.

    in relation to the OP, there only was one reliable counter to JKR when he was released (traya, who was arguably still rather difficult to obtain at the time).
    I believe BH is quite a reliable counter. I'm sure there will be more as time goes on.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • Nauros wrote: »
    Yea every team is beatable by a team or 2 atleast not including mirror matches

    Give me 2 non-mirror teams that reliably beat well modded, full G12 DR team with Malak, I'm listening. If you could accompany it with some proof and not just guesswork, that would be great.





    And could use a dr team without malaks (technically not a mirror cause no malak)

    No proof but heard jango lead bh can also win
  • Nauros
    2739 posts Member
    leef wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Yea every team is beatable by a team or 2 atleast not including mirror matches

    Give me 2 non-mirror teams that reliably beat well modded, full G12 DR team with Malak, I'm listening. If you could accompany it with some proof and not just guesswork, that would be great.

    in relation to the OP, there only was one reliable counter to JKR when he was released (traya, who was arguably still rather difficult to obtain at the time).
    I believe BH is quite a reliable counter. I'm sure there will be more as time goes on.

    Are they really? I mean, it was speculated when the DR kit was released and it makes sense on paper, but that doesn't necessarily mean it actually works. That would be another ftp way to beat Malak, wonder how that one turns out.
    Revive the stores, the game needs it.
  • Nauros
    2739 posts Member
    Nauros wrote: »
    Yea every team is beatable by a team or 2 atleast not including mirror matches

    Give me 2 non-mirror teams that reliably beat well modded, full G12 DR team with Malak, I'm listening. If you could accompany it with some proof and not just guesswork, that would be great.





    And could use a dr team without malaks (technically not a mirror cause no malak)

    No proof but heard jango lead bh can also win

    Excluding the one with non-maxed Malak and "technically not mirror", that's one. Well, better than nothing, I guess, though I just skimmed through the video so I don't know how the mods compare in that one.
    Revive the stores, the game needs it.
  • leef
    12639 posts Member
    Nauros wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Yea every team is beatable by a team or 2 atleast not including mirror matches

    Give me 2 non-mirror teams that reliably beat well modded, full G12 DR team with Malak, I'm listening. If you could accompany it with some proof and not just guesswork, that would be great.

    in relation to the OP, there only was one reliable counter to JKR when he was released (traya, who was arguably still rather difficult to obtain at the time).
    I believe BH is quite a reliable counter. I'm sure there will be more as time goes on.

    Are they really? I mean, it was speculated when the DR kit was released and it makes sense on paper, but that doesn't necessarily mean it actually works. That would be another ftp way to beat Malak, wonder how that one turns out.

    I've only seen one vid (which i can't seem to find anymore) of jango lead winning vs dr/malak. Granted, it was only a 5* malak.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • Nauros
    2739 posts Member
    leef wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Yea every team is beatable by a team or 2 atleast not including mirror matches

    Give me 2 non-mirror teams that reliably beat well modded, full G12 DR team with Malak, I'm listening. If you could accompany it with some proof and not just guesswork, that would be great.

    in relation to the OP, there only was one reliable counter to JKR when he was released (traya, who was arguably still rather difficult to obtain at the time).
    I believe BH is quite a reliable counter. I'm sure there will be more as time goes on.

    Are they really? I mean, it was speculated when the DR kit was released and it makes sense on paper, but that doesn't necessarily mean it actually works. That would be another ftp way to beat Malak, wonder how that one turns out.

    I've only seen one vid (which i can't seem to find anymore) of jango lead winning vs dr/malak. Granted, it was only a 5* malak.

    Ok, that's probably something to keep an eye out for. Thanks.
    Revive the stores, the game needs it.
  • Kyno
    21361 posts Moderator
    DarkLord7 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    DarkLord7 wrote: »
    Quote by QGJ. Some smug people in the forums are going on about how DR Malak is far more balanced after zFinn and zEP have been nerfed as viable counters than JKR meta was. Do these people realize that Traya teams could beat JKR the entire time? JKR was annoying, to be sure. But Traya could climb. How are we supposed to beat Malak? The whole point is they're anti JKR, zEP is nerfed, I hear CLS is a poor matchup, and zFinn no longer exists for our purposes. NS? I doubt it, for the damage this team puts out. "We want rock paper scissors." Clearly that was not true, because we had a perfect rock paper scissors of DR beats JKR beats zEP beats DR. Nope. Rock paper scissors as in P2P has the rock, paper, AND scissors, while those of us who spend less than $200 have... Nothing.

    It is hard for something to be true when it is misquoted

    2hk1y8ukgz3l.jpg


    I can appreciate that it was listed as an end goal state. However, when it appears in the short term and is immediately removed, that doesn't send the strongest reinforcing message about future intentions; people have been talking about meta diversity for years, yet we've still seen one meta followed by another since Traya. The devs also said that they would be listening to player feedback about zFinn rework, and the overwhelming majority of feedback I saw conflicted strongly with what was proposed. I won't beat the dead horse, I got my refunded Zeta. The point is that whatever player feedback they received and factored into the kit was not very transparent (which makes it seem non-existent). The definition of rock paper scissors is also somewhat open to interpretation. There always seem to be one or two very specific niche teams that CAN beat something some of the time... But also utterly collapse in the real arena. Many are afraid that their expectations of a rock paper scissors situation is more balanced than the vision held by the devs. Long term and end game are also variable terms. Some reworks that had been acknowledged as necessary took upwards of a year to arrive. In short, with little to base our interpretations of that grandiose declaration on other than the actions actually undertaken, it undercuts the seriousness with which we can appreciate the statement. Nonetheless, your point still stands that the quote is taken somewhat out of context, and I will amend the original phrasing of my post accordingly.

    They are clearly saying it will not be rock paper scissors, so anyone expecting that will be let down, not matter what happens.

    Everything in this game on the developme side is on a long cycle, I would expect them to slam on the breaks to start this now, they have a plan and they will execute that.
  • Mzee
    1684 posts Member
    The best balance in the meta we have had is right before Commander Luke was added from what I recall. We had a lot of options. Lately we have had few options. We should never have a point where one team is 49/50 (the highest I saw in my shard with Revan).

    The end goal of balance is great, but the ends do not justify the means. Balance is achievable in the short term and maintain it for the long term.
  • Mzee wrote: »
    The best balance in the meta we have had is right before Commander Luke was added from what I recall. We had a lot of options. Lately we have had few options. We should never have a point where one team is 49/50 (the highest I saw in my shard with Revan).

    The end goal of balance is great, but the ends do not justify the means. Balance is achievable in the short term and maintain it for the long term.

    Unless they want a specific meta at all times and controlled aka only paywall meta teams if so it makes since with 0 none old meta allowed
  • Kyno wrote: »
    They are clearly saying it will not be rock paper scissors, so anyone expecting that will be let down, not matter what happens.

    What's hard about this? They said they wanted to get to rock-paper-scissors. They were then pointing in a good direction to achieve this and making progress.

    They then killed it.

  • Kyno
    21361 posts Moderator
    Kyno wrote: »
    They are clearly saying it will not be rock paper scissors, so anyone expecting that will be let down, not matter what happens.

    What's hard about this? They said they wanted to get to rock-paper-scissors. They were then pointing in a good direction to achieve this and making progress.

    They then killed it.

    They did NOT say that, they actually said it will not be a true rock paper scissors meta.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    They are clearly saying it will not be rock paper scissors, so anyone expecting that will be let down, not matter what happens.

    What's hard about this? They said they wanted to get to rock-paper-scissors. They were then pointing in a good direction to achieve this and making progress.

    They then killed it.

    They did NOT say that, they actually said it will not be a true rock paper scissors meta.

    This is true, which is a bit of a problem in and of itself. Not a very healthy mentality for the designers of the game to have. But, they’re at least being honest about it. 😂
    Member of ‘Thugs in White Armor’
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