As I said in an earlier post (as pure speculation), this could be intentional. We have seen a wide range of complaints about big fish in little ponds. This could be a back end fix to this issue that will push it to self correct
You're saying that the hurt to smaller guilds that I foresee and have spent the entire thread arguing against ... could actually be the intention all along?
So you're saying that I might be right? In that case, why are we arguing? **lol**
Do you not understand that small guild's get hurt no matter what...?
People that leave the guild, because no 80 mil, would leave the the guild also for not beating it.
Absolutely not true. I am a perfect example of this. I don't leave my guild for not being able to fully star Hoth. I could easily find a guild that could. For me, I know that I still get rewards, just at a slower rate and to me that is acceptable so that I can stay in a guild with my friends. If it is indeed possible to get a star with less than 80 million GP, we should be able to decide for ourselves if we want those small, but better, rewards instead of larger, but worse, rewards. Again, if it truly is not mathematically possible to get a single star with less than 80 million GP then I will stop complaining about the minimum requirement.
Know you quoted all my post besides the one that says:
That they have to start capping it somewhere. Capping it at 80mil and you only get one star, if your guild's goal is max char gp and max waves. That doesn't provent any complains. So they find a middle way. They still fingering out the cap they want, but there will be a cap. Doesn't matter what you have to say.
And you don't have to stop complaining. There are like 10 people actually complaining about that and 20 others telling you why it is that way.
You accept it or not, the cap is still coming and it won't be a huge impact in destroying guild's.
I did quote that and responded so you may have missed it. They do NOT have to cap it at all. That's a simple fact. They are choosing to do so. But I am extracting myself from this line of the conversation. It's going nowhere. There are those that want to play and will be excluded. We will see how it plays out. Once all the facts are known we can actually have intelligent discussions.
And @Kyno they did indeed make the post you quoted. However there are 3 gear pieces and they don't specifically say which ones come from where (unless I missed it, I didn't listen to podcast at all). I wouldn't be at all surprised if each piece came from one single source. One from GTB, one from GA championship, and one from farming. I'd love to know for sure. Would put my mind at ease if all were farmable. I would gladly accept the minimum threshold set if I knew I could farm the gear 12 finishers to completion without the TB. I could stay with my guild and still progress my gear. I would of course still want to play the new content but it would make the sting hurt less so to speak.
As I said in an earlier post (as pure speculation), this could be intentional. We have seen a wide range of complaints about big fish in little ponds. This could be a back end fix to this issue that will push it to self correct
You're saying that the hurt to smaller guilds that I foresee and have spent the entire thread arguing against ... could actually be the intention all along?
So you're saying that I might be right? In that case, why are we arguing? **lol**
Do you not understand that small guild's get hurt no matter what...?
People that leave the guild, because no 80 mil, would leave the the guild also for not beating it.
Absolutely not true. I am a perfect example of this. I don't leave my guild for not being able to fully star Hoth. I could easily find a guild that could. For me, I know that I still get rewards, just at a slower rate and to me that is acceptable so that I can stay in a guild with my friends. If it is indeed possible to get a star with less than 80 million GP, we should be able to decide for ourselves if we want those small, but better, rewards instead of larger, but worse, rewards. Again, if it truly is not mathematically possible to get a single star with less than 80 million GP then I will stop complaining about the minimum requirement.
Know you quoted all my post besides the one that says:
That they have to start capping it somewhere. Capping it at 80mil and you only get one star, if your guild's goal is max char gp and max waves. That doesn't provent any complains. So they find a middle way. They still fingering out the cap they want, but there will be a cap. Doesn't matter what you have to say.
And you don't have to stop complaining. There are like 10 people actually complaining about that and 20 others telling you why it is that way.
You accept it or not, the cap is still coming and it won't be a huge impact in destroying guild's.
I did quote that and responded so you may have missed it. They do NOT have to cap it at all. That's a simple fact. They are choosing to do so. But I am extracting myself from this line of the conversation. It's going nowhere. There are those that want to play and will be excluded. We will see how it plays out. Once all the facts are known we can actually have intelligent discussions.
And Kyno they did indeed make the post you quoted. However there are 3 gear pieces and they don't specifically say which ones come from where (unless I missed it, I didn't listen to podcast at all). I wouldn't be at all surprised if each piece came from one single source. One from GTB, one from GA championship, and one from farming. I'd love to know for sure. Would put my mind at ease if all were farmable. I would gladly accept the minimum threshold set if I knew I could farm the gear 12 finishers to completion without the TB. I could stay with my guild and still progress my gear. I would of course still want to play the new content but it would make the sting hurt less so to speak.
Correct, as I said this is the information we have right now, but I can all but guarantee you are incorrect and all pieces will be accessible without the TB.
As I said in an earlier post (as pure speculation), this could be intentional. We have seen a wide range of complaints about big fish in little ponds. This could be a back end fix to this issue that will push it to self correct
You're saying that the hurt to smaller guilds that I foresee and have spent the entire thread arguing against ... could actually be the intention all along?
So you're saying that I might be right? In that case, why are we arguing? **lol**
Do you not understand that small guild's get hurt no matter what...?
People that leave the guild, because no 80 mil, would leave the the guild also for not beating it.
Absolutely not true. I am a perfect example of this. I don't leave my guild for not being able to fully star Hoth. I could easily find a guild that could. For me, I know that I still get rewards, just at a slower rate and to me that is acceptable so that I can stay in a guild with my friends. If it is indeed possible to get a star with less than 80 million GP, we should be able to decide for ourselves if we want those small, but better, rewards instead of larger, but worse, rewards. Again, if it truly is not mathematically possible to get a single star with less than 80 million GP then I will stop complaining about the minimum requirement.
Know you quoted all my post besides the one that says:
That they have to start capping it somewhere. Capping it at 80mil and you only get one star, if your guild's goal is max char gp and max waves. That doesn't provent any complains. So they find a middle way. They still fingering out the cap they want, but there will be a cap. Doesn't matter what you have to say.
And you don't have to stop complaining. There are like 10 people actually complaining about that and 20 others telling you why it is that way.
You accept it or not, the cap is still coming and it won't be a huge impact in destroying guild's.
I did quote that and responded so you may have missed it. They do NOT have to cap it at all. That's a simple fact. They are choosing to do so. But I am extracting myself from this line of the conversation. It's going nowhere. There are those that want to play and will be excluded. We will see how it plays out. Once all the facts are known we can actually have intelligent discussions.
And Kyno they did indeed make the post you quoted. However there are 3 gear pieces and they don't specifically say which ones come from where (unless I missed it, I didn't listen to podcast at all). I wouldn't be at all surprised if each piece came from one single source. One from GTB, one from GA championship, and one from farming. I'd love to know for sure. Would put my mind at ease if all were farmable. I would gladly accept the minimum threshold set if I knew I could farm the gear 12 finishers to completion without the TB. I could stay with my guild and still progress my gear. I would of course still want to play the new content but it would make the sting hurt less so to speak.
Correct, as I said this is the information we have right now, but I can all but guarantee you are incorrect and all pieces will be accessible without the TB.
Devs release tournaments, restricting players who haven't hoarded ally points from winning.
Devs: "Guess the players didn't like that".
Devs restrict specific characters in TW.
Devs: "Guess the players didn't like that either".
Devs restrict smaller guild from new TB map.
Devs: "Surely they'll appreciate this restriction"!
Seriously though, the restriction shouldn't directly hurt me or my guild but it's a massive bummer to small guilds who just play for fun. What's left if you take away the fun?
This same concept comes up every time there is new content.
New content tends to stir things up, but in the end stable/healthy guilds usually make it through.
Not sure I agree, online gaming is filled with free loaders and people out to get what they can with little or no social interaction, and they make up much more than the loyal gamer who stands up for more than just himself.
A "Stable and healthy guild" in most cases probably will have more than the required 80mGP. Ofc there will be stable healthy guilds with less but not too often.
I can see more people leaving guilds than waiting for their guilds GP to increase.
The most important thing to note is CG said the 80m GP is still not decided yet anyways so no point in worrying until we are certain
It's not like 80M is some steep requirement, our casual (but old) guild has almost double that.
Your are missing the point. Of course those guilds who already met requirements won't be hurt. But those who don't - will be, and badly. For example, my current guild will need to recruit almost 20 people with average GP higher than our current average. It's just impossible because there is no point for such people to join us - we are complete strangers to them AND we can't do actual PvE content. Even the fact that we are extremely successful for our size (won all our TW, started to clear heroic raids faster than other guilds of our size and age, etc) will change nothing - now we just cut off from the future game.
YOU miss the point of this requirements completey!
As I say above, no 80mil GP, means probably no star and no rewards.
You want that for lower guild's?
Not capping and low guild's miss on any rewards, because they can't achieve One star... Please stop that nonsense
So my guild with slightly under 80 million but with 3 players over 3 million and a dozen more over 1 million won't get any stars or rewards? OK. But where's the harm in letting us try?
If you've read my OP you'd have seen me comparing this to the Heroic Tank. We couldn't complete it at first but we could at least try. We'd fail, get back up and try again. Why aren't we allowed to do that with Geonosis? There's no good reason to not at least let players TRY.
And as for your comment of "please stop that nonsense" ...
It's not nonsense to want to try, so there's no nonsense to stop.
I honestly feel what your saying and I hate to be that guy who stands up for the company but they did make it totally clear that this was an event for end game players to aquire the hardest to get a gear, if they made it easy to beat why would anyone bother or want to do the lower ones?
People have been asking for more end game content and this is it.
You could also advertise in the guild section for a guild merge, you wont be the only 20-30 man guild so with a merge you'll be able acheive what you need and progress much faster than having ransoms join you, see a low gp and leave before they get to know what good guys and gals you are
No matter what cg did they were going to be in hot water in here.
I still remember the my guild leader has launched hsith for a month straight despite being 30 million gp. How could cg let one person screw 50 over like this.
I also remember the why didn't cg make Dengar mandatory for chewbacca thread.
Content should not be limited by how hard core or casual your guild is (you are)! Making content exclusivly for the 1% is a waste of ressources. You unnecessarily divide your playerbase. It does not work in the long run! You make the strong stronger and the new players cannot catch up.
Take Raids as an example: TIER 1 to 7, your guild decides. Make the same for Geonisis (with lower rewards of course)! But creating a gate (80 Mio.) is the wrong way ... Scaleable content FTW.
Content should not be limited by how hard core or casual your guild is (you are)! Making content exclusivly for the 1% is a waste of ressources. You unnecessarily divide your playerbase. It does not work in the long run! You make the strong stronger and the new players cannot catch up.
Take Raids as an example: TIER 1 to 7, your guild decides. Make the same for Geonisis (with lower rewards of course)! But creating a gate (80 Mio.) is the wrong way ... Scaleable content FTW.
%1? How did you come up that figure if you don't mind me asking.
Content should not be limited by how hard core or casual your guild is (you are)! Making content exclusivly for the 1% is a waste of ressources. You unnecessarily divide your playerbase. It does not work in the long run! You make the strong stronger and the new players cannot catch up.
Take Raids as an example: TIER 1 to 7, your guild decides. Make the same for Geonisis (with lower rewards of course)! But creating a gate (80 Mio.) is the wrong way ... Scaleable content FTW.
%1? How did you come up that figure if you don't mind me asking.
The 1% was meant to be representative for the minority not as a real number.
Content should not be limited by how hard core or casual your guild is (you are)! Making content exclusivly for the 1% is a waste of ressources. You unnecessarily divide your playerbase. It does not work in the long run! You make the strong stronger and the new players cannot catch up.
Take Raids as an example: TIER 1 to 7, your guild decides. Make the same for Geonisis (with lower rewards of course)! But creating a gate (80 Mio.) is the wrong way ... Scaleable content FTW.
%1? How did you come up that figure if you don't mind me asking.
The 1% was meant to be representative for the minority not as a real number.
Content should not be limited by how hard core or casual your guild is (you are)! Making content exclusivly for the 1% is a waste of ressources. You unnecessarily divide your playerbase. It does not work in the long run! You make the strong stronger and the new players cannot catch up.
Take Raids as an example: TIER 1 to 7, your guild decides. Make the same for Geonisis (with lower rewards of course)! But creating a gate (80 Mio.) is the wrong way ... Scaleable content FTW.
And how is T7 raid exclusive gear being behind that wall different than having limitations like this?
From the information we have the current raid setup is more hindering to development than the difference between the TBs.
Also, let's keep in mind that the difficulty for this event could make it a no go for guilds 50-100% over this limit. They could actually be choosing to do Hoth due to more rewards that can help them and develop and build up to being able to do the Geo TB.
Also nothing about this is limited to how hard core you guilds is. I'm sure there are many causal guilds that are over the 80M GP mark.
There are already many divisions of player base, this is a development game, its literally impossible to not have that be the case.
Content should not be limited by how hard core or casual your guild is (you are)! Making content exclusivly for the 1% is a waste of ressources. You unnecessarily divide your playerbase. It does not work in the long run! You make the strong stronger and the new players cannot catch up.
Take Raids as an example: TIER 1 to 7, your guild decides. Make the same for Geonisis (with lower rewards of course)! But creating a gate (80 Mio.) is the wrong way ... Scaleable content FTW.
%1? How did you come up that figure if you don't mind me asking.
The 1% was meant to be representative for the minority not as a real number.
So you think 80M+ GP guilds are a minority?
Maybe not, but I think there are a lot of small guilds (of friends) who want to play together and not in a big guild (80M+), which can not do the content because of this kind of requirments. If I'm wrong no biggy for me, everyday I learn more and in my experience of online games, such requirments hurt the community, because the gap between old players and new ones get bigger and bigger.
Content should not be limited by how hard core or casual your guild is (you are)! Making content exclusivly for the 1% is a waste of ressources. You unnecessarily divide your playerbase. It does not work in the long run! You make the strong stronger and the new players cannot catch up.
Take Raids as an example: TIER 1 to 7, your guild decides. Make the same for Geonisis (with lower rewards of course)! But creating a gate (80 Mio.) is the wrong way ... Scaleable content FTW.
%1? How did you come up that figure if you don't mind me asking.
The 1% was meant to be representative for the minority not as a real number.
So you think 80M+ GP guilds are a minority?
Maybe not, but I think there are a lot of small guilds (of friends) who want to play together and not in a big guild (80M+), which can not do the content because of this kind of requirments. If I'm wrong no biggy for me, everyday I learn more and in my experience of online games, such requirments hurt the community, because the gap between old players and new ones get bigger and bigger.
I agree that you should at least be allowed to play with (with dismissable ingame warnings). It's obvious being able to play it won't do you any good, or probably even afford a single star on the event though. That makes the whole discussion -just for the sake of it- after a while.
Content should not be limited by how hard core or casual your guild is (you are)! Making content exclusivly for the 1% is a waste of ressources. You unnecessarily divide your playerbase. It does not work in the long run! You make the strong stronger and the new players cannot catch up.
Take Raids as an example: TIER 1 to 7, your guild decides. Make the same for Geonisis (with lower rewards of course)! But creating a gate (80 Mio.) is the wrong way ... Scaleable content FTW.
And how is T7 raid exclusive gear being behind that wall different than having limitations like this?
From the information we have the current raid setup is more hindering to development than the difference between the TBs.
Also, let's keep in mind that the difficulty for this event could make it a no go for guilds 50-100% over this limit. They could actually be choosing to do Hoth due to more rewards that can help them and develop and build up to being able to do the Geo TB.
Also nothing about this is limited to how hard core you guilds is. I'm sure there are many causal guilds that are over the 80M GP mark.
There are already many divisions of player base, this is a development game, its literally impossible to not have that be the case.
The difference is kinda simple, you can play the new TB even if you get not the new shiny toys, but even at "T6" you see how it works and have some diversity. Why does it work for Territorty War with its GM-tiers (to balance Guild vs. Guild) and the Raids, but not for TB Hoth / Geonsis? You lock content from players for the illusion of progression and thats not good (some would say bad game design / decisions ...)
Content should not be limited by how hard core or casual your guild is (you are)! Making content exclusivly for the 1% is a waste of ressources. You unnecessarily divide your playerbase. It does not work in the long run! You make the strong stronger and the new players cannot catch up.
Take Raids as an example: TIER 1 to 7, your guild decides. Make the same for Geonisis (with lower rewards of course)! But creating a gate (80 Mio.) is the wrong way ... Scaleable content FTW.
And how is T7 raid exclusive gear being behind that wall different than having limitations like this?
I understand where you're coming from except that the difference is that with raids, everyone gets the content just at whatever difficulty the guild chooses. With the new TB you miss out on the content altogether. You miss out on the experience. And to top it off, it sounds like it's going to be some badass new content. Whereas there is nothing "different" with Hoth. It's just battles like anywhere else. The only aspects that make the actual playable content of Hoth any different than regular light/dark/cantina/fleet battles are special abilities sometimes if you unlock them. With Geonosis it sounds like they're going to have battles more like a raid (think Ackley). LOTS of people will miss out on that. Think about it, what's the average time it takes a F2P player to get to 1.6 million GP? Even people who spend a little will take a while to get there. I spent a LOT and I don't know how long it took me but it was a while.
Content should not be limited by how hard core or casual your guild is (you are)! Making content exclusivly for the 1% is a waste of ressources. You unnecessarily divide your playerbase. It does not work in the long run! You make the strong stronger and the new players cannot catch up.
Take Raids as an example: TIER 1 to 7, your guild decides. Make the same for Geonisis (with lower rewards of course)! But creating a gate (80 Mio.) is the wrong way ... Scaleable content FTW.
And how is T7 raid exclusive gear being behind that wall different than having limitations like this?
From the information we have the current raid setup is more hindering to development than the difference between the TBs.
Also, let's keep in mind that the difficulty for this event could make it a no go for guilds 50-100% over this limit. They could actually be choosing to do Hoth due to more rewards that can help them and develop and build up to being able to do the Geo TB.
Also nothing about this is limited to how hard core you guilds is. I'm sure there are many causal guilds that are over the 80M GP mark.
There are already many divisions of player base, this is a development game, its literally impossible to not have that be the case.
The difference is kinda simple, you can play the new TB even if you get not the new shiny toys, but even at "T6" you see how it works and have some diversity. Why does it work for Territorty War with its GM-tiers (to balance Guild vs. Guild) and the Raids, but not for TB Hoth / Geonsis? You lock content from players for the illusion of progression and thats not good (some would say bad game design / decisions ...)
TBs doesn't have tiers and I think they shouldn't have either. Hoth vs. Geo are the tiers necessary in practise where Geo being like the heroic TB.
You probably wouldn't know about the release state of AAT raid. There was those who can simply do the heroic. And then the T6 of it had such a redundant amount of health there were guilds that were still doing their first raid after the 1st month of it xD (remember rosters replenish everyday for tiers below heroic). They have to severely gimp T6 to make it doable after rage day in and day out.
Content should not be limited by how hard core or casual your guild is (you are)! Making content exclusivly for the 1% is a waste of ressources. You unnecessarily divide your playerbase. It does not work in the long run! You make the strong stronger and the new players cannot catch up.
Take Raids as an example: TIER 1 to 7, your guild decides. Make the same for Geonisis (with lower rewards of course)! But creating a gate (80 Mio.) is the wrong way ... Scaleable content FTW.
And how is T7 raid exclusive gear being behind that wall different than having limitations like this?
From the information we have the current raid setup is more hindering to development than the difference between the TBs.
Also, let's keep in mind that the difficulty for this event could make it a no go for guilds 50-100% over this limit. They could actually be choosing to do Hoth due to more rewards that can help them and develop and build up to being able to do the Geo TB.
Also nothing about this is limited to how hard core you guilds is. I'm sure there are many causal guilds that are over the 80M GP mark.
There are already many divisions of player base, this is a development game, its literally impossible to not have that be the case.
In all seriousness,
P3 (Phase 3) of the sith raid has had loops since launch. It has one now. Also, with the introduction of Revan and Darth Revan, Aura Sing and already decent chex mix and Night sisters. A few well geared people could take down sith.... I am saying you could have a guild between 60-80 doing sith raid. There was never a litmus to doing it. No guild number, or GP. You say it had a barrier, but it wasn't a HARD CAP barrier. This is.
Content should not be limited by how hard core or casual your guild is (you are)! Making content exclusivly for the 1% is a waste of ressources. You unnecessarily divide your playerbase. It does not work in the long run! You make the strong stronger and the new players cannot catch up.
Take Raids as an example: TIER 1 to 7, your guild decides. Make the same for Geonisis (with lower rewards of course)! But creating a gate (80 Mio.) is the wrong way ... Scaleable content FTW.
And how is T7 raid exclusive gear being behind that wall different than having limitations like this?
From the information we have the current raid setup is more hindering to development than the difference between the TBs.
Also, let's keep in mind that the difficulty for this event could make it a no go for guilds 50-100% over this limit. They could actually be choosing to do Hoth due to more rewards that can help them and develop and build up to being able to do the Geo TB.
Also nothing about this is limited to how hard core you guilds is. I'm sure there are many causal guilds that are over the 80M GP mark.
There are already many divisions of player base, this is a development game, its literally impossible to not have that be the case.
The difference is kinda simple, you can play the new TB even if you get not the new shiny toys, but even at "T6" you see how it works and have some diversity. Why does it work for Territorty War with its GM-tiers (to balance Guild vs. Guild) and the Raids, but not for TB Hoth / Geonsis? You lock content from players for the illusion of progression and thats not good (some would say bad game design / decisions ...)
TBs doesn't have tiers and I think they shouldn't have either. Hoth vs. Geo are the tiers necessary in practise where Geo being like the heroic TB.
You probably wouldn't know about the release state of AAT raid. There was those who can simply do the heroic. And then the T6 of it had such a redundant amount of health there were guilds that were still doing their first raid after the 1st month of it xD (remember rosters replenish everyday for tiers below heroic). They have to severely gimp T6 to make it doable after rage day in and day out.
I think there are some advocating for that, but I think the majority of us are NOT advocating for different tiers of the TB, we just want to be able to play it regardless of difficulty. If we don't get anywhere, then so be it, but at least we were given the option to try.
Content should not be limited by how hard core or casual your guild is (you are)! Making content exclusivly for the 1% is a waste of ressources. You unnecessarily divide your playerbase. It does not work in the long run! You make the strong stronger and the new players cannot catch up.
Take Raids as an example: TIER 1 to 7, your guild decides. Make the same for Geonisis (with lower rewards of course)! But creating a gate (80 Mio.) is the wrong way ... Scaleable content FTW.
And how is T7 raid exclusive gear being behind that wall different than having limitations like this?
From the information we have the current raid setup is more hindering to development than the difference between the TBs.
Also, let's keep in mind that the difficulty for this event could make it a no go for guilds 50-100% over this limit. They could actually be choosing to do Hoth due to more rewards that can help them and develop and build up to being able to do the Geo TB.
Also nothing about this is limited to how hard core you guilds is. I'm sure there are many causal guilds that are over the 80M GP mark.
There are already many divisions of player base, this is a development game, its literally impossible to not have that be the case.
The difference is kinda simple, you can play the new TB even if you get not the new shiny toys, but even at "T6" you see how it works and have some diversity. Why does it work for Territorty War with its GM-tiers (to balance Guild vs. Guild) and the Raids, but not for TB Hoth / Geonsis? You lock content from players for the illusion of progression and thats not good (some would say bad game design / decisions ...)
T6 is Hoth, T7 is Geo.
You can play Hoth and get the idea on how to manage TB, get a feel for it, see how it works and not get completely locked out of rewards.
TW locks you out if you dont have 25 members.
There are gates and locks all over the game, this one is no different. The one difference right now is that it doesn't seem to be locking you out of any exclusive rewards.
Designing content to have a longer lifespan and create a goal is never bad design. Never. It is achievable for everyone and maintainable to gate progress through this means and is done in many other games just like this. This is one of the few games I have seen of this style where everything is opened up as early as it is.
Content should not be limited by how hard core or casual your guild is (you are)! Making content exclusivly for the 1% is a waste of ressources. You unnecessarily divide your playerbase. It does not work in the long run! You make the strong stronger and the new players cannot catch up.
Take Raids as an example: TIER 1 to 7, your guild decides. Make the same for Geonisis (with lower rewards of course)! But creating a gate (80 Mio.) is the wrong way ... Scaleable content FTW.
And how is T7 raid exclusive gear being behind that wall different than having limitations like this?
From the information we have the current raid setup is more hindering to development than the difference between the TBs.
Also, let's keep in mind that the difficulty for this event could make it a no go for guilds 50-100% over this limit. They could actually be choosing to do Hoth due to more rewards that can help them and develop and build up to being able to do the Geo TB.
Also nothing about this is limited to how hard core you guilds is. I'm sure there are many causal guilds that are over the 80M GP mark.
There are already many divisions of player base, this is a development game, its literally impossible to not have that be the case.
In all seriousness,
P3 (Phase 3) of the sith raid has had loops since launch. It has one now. Also, with the introduction of Revan and Darth Revan, Aura Sing and already decent chex mix and Night sisters. A few well geared people could take down sith.... I am saying you could have a guild between 60-80 doing sith raid. There was never a litmus to doing it. No guild number, or GP. You say it had a barrier, but it wasn't a HARD CAP barrier. This is.
Actually T6 would be more of a gate to get to T7 in a low end guild than trouble getting through T7.
There are other limitations put in place in raids. Do you think it's an accident that it can be done with with a certain number of X team. In those cases it's not spelled out, but no one is doing HSR without some number of JTR. << there is a hard cap. Certain phases have the team you need to have because you cant muscle through it without them and have steam left for the later phases.
Content should not be limited by how hard core or casual your guild is (you are)! Making content exclusivly for the 1% is a waste of ressources. You unnecessarily divide your playerbase. It does not work in the long run! You make the strong stronger and the new players cannot catch up.
Take Raids as an example: TIER 1 to 7, your guild decides. Make the same for Geonisis (with lower rewards of course)! But creating a gate (80 Mio.) is the wrong way ... Scaleable content FTW.
And how is T7 raid exclusive gear being behind that wall different than having limitations like this?
From the information we have the current raid setup is more hindering to development than the difference between the TBs.
Also, let's keep in mind that the difficulty for this event could make it a no go for guilds 50-100% over this limit. They could actually be choosing to do Hoth due to more rewards that can help them and develop and build up to being able to do the Geo TB.
Also nothing about this is limited to how hard core you guilds is. I'm sure there are many causal guilds that are over the 80M GP mark.
There are already many divisions of player base, this is a development game, its literally impossible to not have that be the case.
The difference is kinda simple, you can play the new TB even if you get not the new shiny toys, but even at "T6" you see how it works and have some diversity. Why does it work for Territorty War with its GM-tiers (to balance Guild vs. Guild) and the Raids, but not for TB Hoth / Geonsis? You lock content from players for the illusion of progression and thats not good (some would say bad game design / decisions ...)
T6 is Hoth, T7 is Geo.
You can play Hoth and get the idea on how to manage TB, get a feel for it, see how it works and not get completely locked out of rewards.
TW locks you out if you dont have 25 members.
There are gates and locks all over the game, this one is no different. The one difference right now is that it doesn't seem to be locking you out of any exclusive rewards.
Designing content to have a longer lifespan and create a goal is never bad design. Never. It is achievable for everyone and maintainable to gate progress through this means and is done in many other games just like this. This is one of the few games I have seen of this style where everything is opened up as early as it is.
T6 is Hoth, T7 is Geo? No, sorry. You play the Pit if you want to play the Pit and not the HAAT. You can do all 3 raids, see the content, test teams and all of them have a different feel /rules, but you can not play Geo at all! No testing, no "miniraid", nothing!
Designing content to have a longer lifespan by reducing the amount of players who can play a whole new TB? No, not good! I'm with you with the goals, but T6 to HSTR is also a goal and gives you the impression of progression.
Replies
I did quote that and responded so you may have missed it. They do NOT have to cap it at all. That's a simple fact. They are choosing to do so. But I am extracting myself from this line of the conversation. It's going nowhere. There are those that want to play and will be excluded. We will see how it plays out. Once all the facts are known we can actually have intelligent discussions.
And @Kyno they did indeed make the post you quoted. However there are 3 gear pieces and they don't specifically say which ones come from where (unless I missed it, I didn't listen to podcast at all). I wouldn't be at all surprised if each piece came from one single source. One from GTB, one from GA championship, and one from farming. I'd love to know for sure. Would put my mind at ease if all were farmable. I would gladly accept the minimum threshold set if I knew I could farm the gear 12 finishers to completion without the TB. I could stay with my guild and still progress my gear. I would of course still want to play the new content but it would make the sting hurt less so to speak.
Correct, as I said this is the information we have right now, but I can all but guarantee you are incorrect and all pieces will be accessible without the TB.
I sincerely hope you are correct.
Devs: "Guess the players didn't like that".
Devs restrict specific characters in TW.
Devs: "Guess the players didn't like that either".
Devs restrict smaller guild from new TB map.
Devs: "Surely they'll appreciate this restriction"!
Seriously though, the restriction shouldn't directly hurt me or my guild but it's a massive bummer to small guilds who just play for fun. What's left if you take away the fun?
Not sure I agree, online gaming is filled with free loaders and people out to get what they can with little or no social interaction, and they make up much more than the loyal gamer who stands up for more than just himself.
A "Stable and healthy guild" in most cases probably will have more than the required 80mGP. Ofc there will be stable healthy guilds with less but not too often.
I can see more people leaving guilds than waiting for their guilds GP to increase.
The most important thing to note is CG said the 80m GP is still not decided yet anyways so no point in worrying until we are certain
I honestly feel what your saying and I hate to be that guy who stands up for the company but they did make it totally clear that this was an event for end game players to aquire the hardest to get a gear, if they made it easy to beat why would anyone bother or want to do the lower ones?
People have been asking for more end game content and this is it.
I still remember the my guild leader has launched hsith for a month straight despite being 30 million gp. How could cg let one person screw 50 over like this.
I also remember the why didn't cg make Dengar mandatory for chewbacca thread.
Cg finally listen and people don't like it.
Take Raids as an example: TIER 1 to 7, your guild decides. Make the same for Geonisis (with lower rewards of course)! But creating a gate (80 Mio.) is the wrong way ... Scaleable content FTW.
%1? How did you come up that figure if you don't mind me asking.
The 1% was meant to be representative for the minority not as a real number.
So you think 80M+ GP guilds are a minority?
And how is T7 raid exclusive gear being behind that wall different than having limitations like this?
From the information we have the current raid setup is more hindering to development than the difference between the TBs.
Also, let's keep in mind that the difficulty for this event could make it a no go for guilds 50-100% over this limit. They could actually be choosing to do Hoth due to more rewards that can help them and develop and build up to being able to do the Geo TB.
Also nothing about this is limited to how hard core you guilds is. I'm sure there are many causal guilds that are over the 80M GP mark.
There are already many divisions of player base, this is a development game, its literally impossible to not have that be the case.
Maybe not, but I think there are a lot of small guilds (of friends) who want to play together and not in a big guild (80M+), which can not do the content because of this kind of requirments. If I'm wrong no biggy for me, everyday I learn more and in my experience of online games, such requirments hurt the community, because the gap between old players and new ones get bigger and bigger.
I agree that you should at least be allowed to play with (with dismissable ingame warnings). It's obvious being able to play it won't do you any good, or probably even afford a single star on the event though. That makes the whole discussion -just for the sake of it- after a while.
The difference is kinda simple, you can play the new TB even if you get not the new shiny toys, but even at "T6" you see how it works and have some diversity. Why does it work for Territorty War with its GM-tiers (to balance Guild vs. Guild) and the Raids, but not for TB Hoth / Geonsis? You lock content from players for the illusion of progression and thats not good (some would say bad game design / decisions ...)
I understand where you're coming from except that the difference is that with raids, everyone gets the content just at whatever difficulty the guild chooses. With the new TB you miss out on the content altogether. You miss out on the experience. And to top it off, it sounds like it's going to be some badass new content. Whereas there is nothing "different" with Hoth. It's just battles like anywhere else. The only aspects that make the actual playable content of Hoth any different than regular light/dark/cantina/fleet battles are special abilities sometimes if you unlock them. With Geonosis it sounds like they're going to have battles more like a raid (think Ackley). LOTS of people will miss out on that. Think about it, what's the average time it takes a F2P player to get to 1.6 million GP? Even people who spend a little will take a while to get there. I spent a LOT and I don't know how long it took me but it was a while.
TBs doesn't have tiers and I think they shouldn't have either. Hoth vs. Geo are the tiers necessary in practise where Geo being like the heroic TB.
You probably wouldn't know about the release state of AAT raid. There was those who can simply do the heroic. And then the T6 of it had such a redundant amount of health there were guilds that were still doing their first raid after the 1st month of it xD (remember rosters replenish everyday for tiers below heroic). They have to severely gimp T6 to make it doable after rage day in and day out.
Speculation is the internet sir
In all seriousness,
P3 (Phase 3) of the sith raid has had loops since launch. It has one now. Also, with the introduction of Revan and Darth Revan, Aura Sing and already decent chex mix and Night sisters. A few well geared people could take down sith.... I am saying you could have a guild between 60-80 doing sith raid. There was never a litmus to doing it. No guild number, or GP. You say it had a barrier, but it wasn't a HARD CAP barrier. This is.
I think there are some advocating for that, but I think the majority of us are NOT advocating for different tiers of the TB, we just want to be able to play it regardless of difficulty. If we don't get anywhere, then so be it, but at least we were given the option to try.
T6 is Hoth, T7 is Geo.
You can play Hoth and get the idea on how to manage TB, get a feel for it, see how it works and not get completely locked out of rewards.
TW locks you out if you dont have 25 members.
There are gates and locks all over the game, this one is no different. The one difference right now is that it doesn't seem to be locking you out of any exclusive rewards.
Designing content to have a longer lifespan and create a goal is never bad design. Never. It is achievable for everyone and maintainable to gate progress through this means and is done in many other games just like this. This is one of the few games I have seen of this style where everything is opened up as early as it is.
Actually T6 would be more of a gate to get to T7 in a low end guild than trouble getting through T7.
There are other limitations put in place in raids. Do you think it's an accident that it can be done with with a certain number of X team. In those cases it's not spelled out, but no one is doing HSR without some number of JTR. << there is a hard cap. Certain phases have the team you need to have because you cant muscle through it without them and have steam left for the later phases.
This gate is just put out there more directly.
T6 is Hoth, T7 is Geo? No, sorry. You play the Pit if you want to play the Pit and not the HAAT. You can do all 3 raids, see the content, test teams and all of them have a different feel /rules, but you can not play Geo at all! No testing, no "miniraid", nothing!
Designing content to have a longer lifespan by reducing the amount of players who can play a whole new TB? No, not good! I'm with you with the goals, but T6 to HSTR is also a goal and gives you the impression of progression.