I welcome healthy debate, but I do believe I have well-represented the opinions of whales, f2p, mid-level guilds, and high-level guilds, which essentially encompasses every demographic in the community. If I am wrong, please tell me so I can better understand the community!
You have completely neglected the the perspective of effective f2p who are able to do things like: get GLs in a few months rather than years; relic multiple characters in a reasonable timeframe; not make absurd complaints about it taking 3.5 years to r7 a useless character when the reason for that is that relics didn't exist until then.
Wow, its almost like you missed the part where I said I run several accounts, a few of which are new. I know the grind, firsthand from every perspective. It's laughable to say any F2P player can get a GL in a few months, or even less than a year. Maybe a year if they grind every day, since even getting to level 85 and having access to all the nodes for grinding for anyone short of an insanely competitive player is going to take several months of regular but casual play. No one F2P is going to go through such an insane grind in as short a time as a few months, and those who do will barely relic one maybe two characters tops, and possibly not even one of the 20+ needed for these events.
I think you undermine your point with the 3.5 year to g13 a toon. It took me my whole life to g13 my first toon, that contributed nothing...
Also what is you starting reference point for a F2P in this instance?
A brand new account?
I welcome healthy debate, but I do believe I have well-represented the opinions of whales, f2p, mid-level guilds, and high-level guilds, which essentially encompasses every demographic in the community. If I am wrong, please tell me so I can better understand the community!
You have completely neglected the the perspective of effective f2p who are able to do things like: get GLs in a few months rather than years; relic multiple characters in a reasonable timeframe; not make absurd complaints about it taking 3.5 years to r7 a useless character when the reason for that is that relics didn't exist until then.
Wow, its almost like you missed the part where I said I run several accounts, a few of which are new. I know the grind, firsthand from every perspective. It's laughable to say any F2P player can get a GL in a few months, or even less than a year. Maybe a year if they grind every day, since even getting to level 85 and having access to all the nodes for grinding for anyone short of an insanely competitive player is going to take several months of regular but casual play. No one F2P is going to go through such an insane grind in as short a time as a few months, and those who do will barely relic one maybe two characters tops, and possibly not even one of the 20+ needed for these events.
I think you undermine your point with the 3.5 year to g13 a toon. It took me my whole life to g13 my first toon, that contributed nothing...
Also what is you starting reference point for a F2P in this instance?
A brand new account?
Oh shoot I did forget to account for my 1.5 year break, sorry, that's my bad XD
And I was banking on a GR Jedi rework, I had no clue she would *continue* to contribute nothing. And now apparently she will take even longer to be relevant again, thanks to delaying/cancelling reworks. Another reason I'm annoyed with this Q&A
I welcome healthy debate, but I do believe I have well-represented the opinions of whales, f2p, mid-level guilds, and high-level guilds, which essentially encompasses every demographic in the community. If I am wrong, please tell me so I can better understand the community!
You have completely neglected the the perspective of effective f2p who are able to do things like: get GLs in a few months rather than years; relic multiple characters in a reasonable timeframe; not make absurd complaints about it taking 3.5 years to r7 a useless character when the reason for that is that relics didn't exist until then.
Wow, its almost like you missed the part where I said I run several accounts, a few of which are new. I know the grind, firsthand from every perspective. It's laughable to say any F2P player can get a GL in a few months, or even less than a year. Maybe a year if they grind every day, since even getting to level 85 and having access to all the nodes for grinding for anyone short of an insanely competitive player is going to take several months of regular but casual play. No one F2P is going to go through such an insane grind in as short a time as a few months, and those who do will barely relic one maybe two characters tops, and possibly not even one of the 20+ needed for these events.
I think you undermine your point with the 3.5 year to g13 a toon. It took me my whole life to g13 my first toon, that contributed nothing...
Also what is you starting reference point for a F2P in this instance?
A brand new account?
Oh shoot I did forget to account for my 1.5 year break, sorry, that's my bad XD
And I was banking on a GR Jedi rework, I had no clue she would *continue* to contribute nothing. And now apparently she will take even longer to be relevant again, thanks to delaying/cancelling reworks. Another reason I'm annoyed with this Q&A
Okay, but you can only claim to have actively worked on g13 since it came out, in may or june or whatever.
But anyway, i see your edit addresses a lot of what i said elsewise
I welcome healthy debate, but I do believe I have well-represented the opinions of whales, f2p, mid-level guilds, and high-level guilds, which essentially encompasses every demographic in the community. If I am wrong, please tell me so I can better understand the community!
You have completely neglected the the perspective of effective f2p who are able to do things like: get GLs in a few months rather than years; relic multiple characters in a reasonable timeframe; not make absurd complaints about it taking 3.5 years to r7 a useless character when the reason for that is that relics didn't exist until then.
Wow, its almost like you missed the part where I said I run several accounts, a few of which are new. I know the grind, firsthand from every perspective. It's laughable to say any F2P player can get a GL in a few months, or even less than a year. Maybe a year if they grind every day, since even getting to level 85 and having access to all the nodes for grinding for anyone short of an insanely competitive player is going to take several months of regular but casual play. No one F2P is going to go through such an insane grind in as short a time as a few months, and those who do will barely relic one maybe two characters tops, and possibly not even one of the 20+ needed for these events.
I think you undermine your point with the 3.5 year to g13 a toon. It took me my whole life to g13 my first toon, that contributed nothing...
Also what is you starting reference point for a F2P in this instance?
A brand new account?
Oh shoot I did forget to account for my 1.5 year break, sorry, that's my bad XD
And I was banking on a GR Jedi rework, I had no clue she would *continue* to contribute nothing. And now apparently she will take even longer to be relevant again, thanks to delaying/cancelling reworks. Another reason I'm annoyed with this Q&A
Okay, but you can only claim to have actively worked on g13 since it came out, in may or june or whatever.
But anyway, i see your edit addresses a lot of what i said elsewise
Yeah sorry for the lack of clarity, but what I essentially meant to portray was a good representation of the average F2P, with a few variations I have experience with like active relic farming. The average F2P is (most likely) a larger portion of the player base than hardcore F2P, especially because really hardcore players are substantially more likely to turn to whaling in the sake of progress.
I’m surprised they went into such detail about how expensive it would be. I really don’t get the “it can’t be monetized” or “it won’t make money” arguments. Marketing, ads, and artwork in game can’t directly be tied to making money, but they spend a lot of time on those.
Marketing, ads, and artwork in game aren't directly tied to making money?
I feel like you’re trying to make a point...what is it?
Marketing, ads, and artwork in game are directly tied to making money
How so? If they increase the art department’s budget by 20%, how much additional revenue would that bring in?
well clearly art is the least important, if we go by how it looks (sometimes, to be fair) and how successful the game is. I mean, obviously. But art is important to get people into the game and many people like it. Just look at all the art questions!
If you are asking how marketing and ads tie into revenue, well...
Well what? I could have picked any of those 3 and made the same argument. There is no direct correlation. Companies guess at it all the time, but an increase in spending on any of these cannot be directly tied to an increase in revenue.
“ But art is important to get people into the game and many people like it. Just look at all the art questions!” I think if we change the word “art” for “sandbox mode” we would see basically the same argument.
I’m surprised they went into such detail about how expensive it would be. I really don’t get the “it can’t be monetized” or “it won’t make money” arguments. Marketing, ads, and artwork in game can’t directly be tied to making money, but they spend a lot of time on those.
Marketing, ads, and artwork in game aren't directly tied to making money?
I feel like you’re trying to make a point...what is it?
Marketing, ads, and artwork in game are directly tied to making money
How so? If they increase the art department’s budget by 20%, how much additional revenue would that bring in?
well clearly art is the least important, if we go by how it looks (sometimes, to be fair) and how successful the game is. I mean, obviously. But art is important to get people into the game and many people like it. Just look at all the art questions!
If you are asking how marketing and ads tie into revenue, well...
Well what? I could have picked any of those 3 and made the same argument. There is no direct correlation. Companies guess at it all the time, but an increase in spending on any of these cannot be directly tied to an increase in revenue.
“ But art is important to get people into the game and many people like it. Just look at all the art questions!” I think if we change the word “art” for “sandbox mode” we would see basically the same argument.
if you don't think product, marketing, and ads can be directly tied to revenue I can't help you. I mean, what exactly can be directly tied to revenue iyo?
By “I can’t help you,” do you mean that you don’t know how they can be tied so you can’t tell me? If you can’t bother to prove you’re own point, I’m not going to work on it for you.
You obviously know nothing about business. Look at any successful business in the world. Part of that has to do with marketing. If you can't understand that and need more "proof" you should stop. All you're doing is showing a server lack of reality.
And you’re only showing your lack of reading comprehension skills. I never said marketing is not part of business (or whatever kind of point you’re trying to make). But if you can show me a direct correlation between marketing budgets and increases in revenue, I’ll be happy to read it. And I mean something that actually uses numbers and facts...not the underpants gnomes: Step 1=marketing, Step 2=, Step 3=profit.
Regardless, this is getting off topic, and I’ve been taken away from my original point. I’ll stop this now.
They have explained where they are coming from with the "data", and they have other places where they monitor and talk with players.
agree or dont, they have some information about the situation. There are also other points that can be made:
- if a player has something going on IRL, anything not rewards based would probably be the first thing they dont play.
- not everyone will use it. plain and simple, a mode like this will without a doubt have the lowest % of interaction compared to modes that give rewards.
unfortunately there is no "simple compromise", once it is in game people are going to ask for upgrades and QOL, its a game feature and it would need attention as time moves on. in for a penny in for a pound.
I think the last reason there is one of the main reasons we have been dragged on for a while with a maybe, and now its more of a hard no. At one point it was considered, but now the long term investment of resources is just not something they want to considering investing in, because it would start to limit their ability to put out content.
Think about it, since the JG has been introduced, how many times have you redone events just for something to play?
from a business sense (not $$) it makes sense, its a large (and continuing) investment for a lower/unknown gain.
How can you say a sandbox mode - where you fight your own roster or created teams for testing will without a doubt have the lowest % interactions of all game modes? Just because other modes give rewards? I think you are 100% wrong
Did you intentionally not think about the players who...
Will finish their dailies in 10 minutes and spend hours playing in sandbox because they are bored and have nothing else to do in the game... or
Will play sandbox mode but have semi retired from competitive play so dont care about progressing they just want to use what they have unlocked for fun... or
Are super competitive and will want to test out every combination possible... or
The streamers who will record and post free publicity for the game on youtube by making their own creative videos using sandbox mode... or
The little kids who just like playing something for entertainment and dont really understand progression... or
I could keep going on there are a lot of types of players that would use sandbox mode MORE THAN REWARD MODES. Some may even say the majority of active players would.
Actually I can only think of a couple player types who would play rewards modes stuff more frequently than a sandbox mode =
lazy people and
people who only care about progression.
if you only care about progression then that means you do care about progression. If you care about progression as a #1 goal then your obviously competitive. Everyone who's competitive would want to experiment and make good use of a sandbox mode to improve their game knowledge and test out their teams before actual combat use. So people who care about progression only would by default use sandbox mode.
That leaves just lazy people. Oh and people who are super busy in real life which I doubt is a significant portion of the player base. Most people play phone games because they have additional spare time not because they are super busy in real life. Maybe I'm wrong and my doctor is playing star wars in between surgeries to get his 600 in and hitting the tank. Really doubt this is any sizable amount of CGs target market...
Anyways that just leaves lazy people
So your saying most of the player base is lazy and wont use a sandbox mode because there is no in game reward for their time investment?
Do you have any data to support your case? Or your just making up stuff to support CGs lack of excitement about being asked to make a sandbox mode.
But your thinking highlights exactly what's wrong with CG in my opinion.
Your thinking is essentially that people wont play it because there is no in game reward.
The reward is knowledge, actually playing the game, theory crafting and experimenting but all of this is meaningless to you and CG because it can not be boxed up and sold in q bundle for Crystal's. That's the real truth and reason why there will never be a sandbox mode.
In the end your probally right. If they did make a sandbox mode it would be so broken (like 100 Crystal's for 1 test fight) that no one would use it and it would be the event played by the lowest % of people. (Only because CG would try to monetize it heavily)
with the long development time of teams and relatively stable metas and known listings of counters, how many times do you think the average player will repeat battles ?
I'm not saying it wouldn't be used, but for most players it would hit a saturation point where they are not going to keep it a top priority to battle 5, 10, 20 more times a day just because they can.
No I dont think they wont use it because it doesn't offer rewards, but the continuation of play will drop off "for no reason", players dont like X, but they will keep doing it at some level for their guild or for the rewards, without those at some point due to RL or other reasons (like saturation).
do you have any issues with any of the crunches going on in the game? are you happy with your ability to develop fast enough?
many players are not. Do you think they should divert development time to something that would slow development of things that would help with player development?
you can keep your jaded view out of the conversation to keep it constructive, thats ok.
They have explained where they are coming from with the "data", and they have other places where they monitor and talk with players.
agree or dont, they have some information about the situation. There are also other points that can be made:
- if a player has something going on IRL, anything not rewards based would probably be the first thing they dont play.
- not everyone will use it. plain and simple, a mode like this will without a doubt have the lowest % of interaction compared to modes that give rewards.
unfortunately there is no "simple compromise", once it is in game people are going to ask for upgrades and QOL, its a game feature and it would need attention as time moves on. in for a penny in for a pound.
I think the last reason there is one of the main reasons we have been dragged on for a while with a maybe, and now its more of a hard no. At one point it was considered, but now the long term investment of resources is just not something they want to considering investing in, because it would start to limit their ability to put out content.
Think about it, since the JG has been introduced, how many times have you redone events just for something to play?
from a business sense (not $$) it makes sense, its a large (and continuing) investment for a lower/unknown gain.
How can you say a sandbox mode - where you fight your own roster or created teams for testing will without a doubt have the lowest % interactions of all game modes? Just because other modes give rewards? I think you are 100% wrong
Did you intentionally not think about the players who...
Will finish their dailies in 10 minutes and spend hours playing in sandbox because they are bored and have nothing else to do in the game... or
Will play sandbox mode but have semi retired from competitive play so dont care about progressing they just want to use what they have unlocked for fun... or
Are super competitive and will want to test out every combination possible... or
The streamers who will record and post free publicity for the game on youtube by making their own creative videos using sandbox mode... or
The little kids who just like playing something for entertainment and dont really understand progression... or
I could keep going on there are a lot of types of players that would use sandbox mode MORE THAN REWARD MODES. Some may even say the majority of active players would.
Actually I can only think of a couple player types who would play rewards modes stuff more frequently than a sandbox mode =
lazy people and
people who only care about progression.
if you only care about progression then that means you do care about progression. If you care about progression as a #1 goal then your obviously competitive. Everyone who's competitive would want to experiment and make good use of a sandbox mode to improve their game knowledge and test out their teams before actual combat use. So people who care about progression only would by default use sandbox mode.
That leaves just lazy people. Oh and people who are super busy in real life which I doubt is a significant portion of the player base. Most people play phone games because they have additional spare time not because they are super busy in real life. Maybe I'm wrong and my doctor is playing star wars in between surgeries to get his 600 in and hitting the tank. Really doubt this is any sizable amount of CGs target market...
Anyways that just leaves lazy people
So your saying most of the player base is lazy and wont use a sandbox mode because there is no in game reward for their time investment?
Do you have any data to support your case? Or your just making up stuff to support CGs lack of excitement about being asked to make a sandbox mode.
But your thinking highlights exactly what's wrong with CG in my opinion.
Your thinking is essentially that people wont play it because there is no in game reward.
The reward is knowledge, actually playing the game, theory crafting and experimenting but all of this is meaningless to you and CG because it can not be boxed up and sold in q bundle for Crystal's. That's the real truth and reason why there will never be a sandbox mode.
In the end your probally right. If they did make a sandbox mode it would be so broken (like 100 Crystal's for 1 test fight) that no one would use it and it would be the event played by the lowest % of people. (Only because CG would try to monetize it heavily)
with the long development time of teams and relatively stable metas and known listings of counters, how many times do you think the average player will repeat battles ?
I'm not saying it wouldn't be used, but for most players it would hit a saturation point where they are not going to keep it a top priority to battle 5, 10, 20 more times a day just because they can.
No I dont think they wont use it because it doesn't offer rewards, but the continuation of play will drop off "for no reason", players dont like X, but they will keep doing it at some level for their guild or for the rewards, without those at some point due to RL or other reasons (like saturation).
do you have any issues with any of the crunches going on in the game? are you happy with your ability to develop fast enough?
many players are not. Do you think they should divert development time to something that would slow development of things that would help with player development?
you can keep your jaded view out of the conversation to keep it constructive, thats ok.
(Nute Gunray) "You assume too much."
You're putting a lot of faith in CG that they're actually developing things that would help the player development. Honestly part of the frustrating part of the slow grind is that every new thing they add is another huge requirement in gear levels. LSGTB for example is an absolute gear wall and they stated they have no intentions of adding anything towards progression or tuning the difficulty.
So my guess is the next nee thing they add to game will be just as requirement heavy as LSGTB or even GL and again giving content that is rather unplayable or unenjoyable.
At least with the most basic of sandbox modes/interguild arena, we create the content... that can be played and enjoyed.
They have explained where they are coming from with the "data", and they have other places where they monitor and talk with players.
agree or dont, they have some information about the situation. There are also other points that can be made:
- if a player has something going on IRL, anything not rewards based would probably be the first thing they dont play.
- not everyone will use it. plain and simple, a mode like this will without a doubt have the lowest % of interaction compared to modes that give rewards.
unfortunately there is no "simple compromise", once it is in game people are going to ask for upgrades and QOL, its a game feature and it would need attention as time moves on. in for a penny in for a pound.
I think the last reason there is one of the main reasons we have been dragged on for a while with a maybe, and now its more of a hard no. At one point it was considered, but now the long term investment of resources is just not something they want to considering investing in, because it would start to limit their ability to put out content.
Think about it, since the JG has been introduced, how many times have you redone events just for something to play?
from a business sense (not $$) it makes sense, its a large (and continuing) investment for a lower/unknown gain.
How can you say a sandbox mode - where you fight your own roster or created teams for testing will without a doubt have the lowest % interactions of all game modes? Just because other modes give rewards? I think you are 100% wrong
Did you intentionally not think about the players who...
Will finish their dailies in 10 minutes and spend hours playing in sandbox because they are bored and have nothing else to do in the game... or
Will play sandbox mode but have semi retired from competitive play so dont care about progressing they just want to use what they have unlocked for fun... or
Are super competitive and will want to test out every combination possible... or
The streamers who will record and post free publicity for the game on youtube by making their own creative videos using sandbox mode... or
The little kids who just like playing something for entertainment and dont really understand progression... or
I could keep going on there are a lot of types of players that would use sandbox mode MORE THAN REWARD MODES. Some may even say the majority of active players would.
Actually I can only think of a couple player types who would play rewards modes stuff more frequently than a sandbox mode =
lazy people and
people who only care about progression.
if you only care about progression then that means you do care about progression. If you care about progression as a #1 goal then your obviously competitive. Everyone who's competitive would want to experiment and make good use of a sandbox mode to improve their game knowledge and test out their teams before actual combat use. So people who care about progression only would by default use sandbox mode.
That leaves just lazy people. Oh and people who are super busy in real life which I doubt is a significant portion of the player base. Most people play phone games because they have additional spare time not because they are super busy in real life. Maybe I'm wrong and my doctor is playing star wars in between surgeries to get his 600 in and hitting the tank. Really doubt this is any sizable amount of CGs target market...
Anyways that just leaves lazy people
So your saying most of the player base is lazy and wont use a sandbox mode because there is no in game reward for their time investment?
Do you have any data to support your case? Or your just making up stuff to support CGs lack of excitement about being asked to make a sandbox mode.
But your thinking highlights exactly what's wrong with CG in my opinion.
Your thinking is essentially that people wont play it because there is no in game reward.
The reward is knowledge, actually playing the game, theory crafting and experimenting but all of this is meaningless to you and CG because it can not be boxed up and sold in q bundle for Crystal's. That's the real truth and reason why there will never be a sandbox mode.
In the end your probally right. If they did make a sandbox mode it would be so broken (like 100 Crystal's for 1 test fight) that no one would use it and it would be the event played by the lowest % of people. (Only because CG would try to monetize it heavily)
with the long development time of teams and relatively stable metas and known listings of counters, how many times do you think the average player will repeat battles ?
I'm not saying it wouldn't be used, but for most players it would hit a saturation point where they are not going to keep it a top priority to battle 5, 10, 20 more times a day just because they can.
No I dont think they wont use it because it doesn't offer rewards, but the continuation of play will drop off "for no reason", players dont like X, but they will keep doing it at some level for their guild or for the rewards, without those at some point due to RL or other reasons (like saturation).
do you have any issues with any of the crunches going on in the game? are you happy with your ability to develop fast enough?
many players are not. Do you think they should divert development time to something that would slow development of things that would help with player development?
you can keep your jaded view out of the conversation to keep it constructive, thats ok.
(Nute Gunray) "You assume too much."
You're putting a lot of faith in CG that they're actually developing things that would help the player development. Honestly part of the frustrating part of the slow grind is that every new thing they add is another huge requirement in gear levels. LSGTB for example is an absolute gear wall and they stated they have no intentions of adding anything towards progression or tuning the difficulty.
So my guess is the next nee thing they add to game will be just as requirement heavy as LSGTB or even GL and again giving content that is rather unplayable or unenjoyable.
At least with the most basic of sandbox modes/interguild arena, we create the content... that can be played and enjoyed.
If you dont have some faith in that, then why be here.
If I had 10% of the feelings expressed here about the dev team, i wouldnt be here.
Say what you will we have had events and things added that have increased the influx of needed materials. No it will never be at the pace the players want.
80% base for both all ingame modes, which could include a sandbox mode.
Of that 20% some portion of players 'X' would still do any game mode that has rewards or something that helps them progress or helps their guild, but dont do the sandbox.
80% + X is greater than 80%.
So yes it will be a lower % of players. No I dont think this is a good enough reason on it's own to not do it, but that doesnt make that statement wrong, by any means.
They have explained where they are coming from with the "data", and they have other places where they monitor and talk with players.
agree or dont, they have some information about the situation. There are also other points that can be made:
- if a player has something going on IRL, anything not rewards based would probably be the first thing they dont play.
- not everyone will use it. plain and simple, a mode like this will without a doubt have the lowest % of interaction compared to modes that give rewards.
- unfortunately there is no "simple compromise", once it is in game people are going to ask for upgrades and QOL, its a game feature and it would need attention as time moves on. in for a penny in for a pound.
I think the last reason there is one of the main reasons we have been dragged on for a while with a maybe, and now its more of a hard no. At one point it was considered, but now the long term investment of resources is just not something they want to considering investing in, because it would start to limit their ability to put out content.
Think about it, since the JG has been introduced, how many times have you redone events just for something to play?
from a business sense (not $$) it makes sense, its a large (and continuing) investment for a lower/unknown gain.
Can you ask them for the data showing a significant portion of players don’t want a new raid? You know that thing they ‘worked on’ that is now paused for some new garbage that no one asked for, but is better?
They have explained where they are coming from with the "data", and they have other places where they monitor and talk with players.
agree or dont, they have some information about the situation. There are also other points that can be made:
- if a player has something going on IRL, anything not rewards based would probably be the first thing they dont play.
- not everyone will use it. plain and simple, a mode like this will without a doubt have the lowest % of interaction compared to modes that give rewards.
- unfortunately there is no "simple compromise", once it is in game people are going to ask for upgrades and QOL, its a game feature and it would need attention as time moves on. in for a penny in for a pound.
I think the last reason there is one of the main reasons we have been dragged on for a while with a maybe, and now its more of a hard no. At one point it was considered, but now the long term investment of resources is just not something they want to considering investing in, because it would start to limit their ability to put out content.
Think about it, since the JG has been introduced, how many times have you redone events just for something to play?
from a business sense (not $$) it makes sense, its a large (and continuing) investment for a lower/unknown gain.
Can you ask them for the data showing a significant portion of players don’t want a new raid? You know that thing they ‘worked on’ that is now paused for some new garbage that no one asked for, but is better?
After you show me the quote where they said a significant portion of the players dont want a new raid.
They have explained where they are coming from with the "data", and they have other places where they monitor and talk with players.
agree or dont, they have some information about the situation. There are also other points that can be made:
- if a player has something going on IRL, anything not rewards based would probably be the first thing they dont play.
- not everyone will use it. plain and simple, a mode like this will without a doubt have the lowest % of interaction compared to modes that give rewards.
unfortunately there is no "simple compromise", once it is in game people are going to ask for upgrades and QOL, its a game feature and it would need attention as time moves on. in for a penny in for a pound.
I think the last reason there is one of the main reasons we have been dragged on for a while with a maybe, and now its more of a hard no. At one point it was considered, but now the long term investment of resources is just not something they want to considering investing in, because it would start to limit their ability to put out content.
Think about it, since the JG has been introduced, how many times have you redone events just for something to play?
from a business sense (not $$) it makes sense, its a large (and continuing) investment for a lower/unknown gain.
How can you say a sandbox mode - where you fight your own roster or created teams for testing will without a doubt have the lowest % interactions of all game modes? Just because other modes give rewards? I think you are 100% wrong
Did you intentionally not think about the players who...
Will finish their dailies in 10 minutes and spend hours playing in sandbox because they are bored and have nothing else to do in the game... or
Will play sandbox mode but have semi retired from competitive play so dont care about progressing they just want to use what they have unlocked for fun... or
Are super competitive and will want to test out every combination possible... or
The streamers who will record and post free publicity for the game on youtube by making their own creative videos using sandbox mode... or
The little kids who just like playing something for entertainment and dont really understand progression... or
I could keep going on there are a lot of types of players that would use sandbox mode MORE THAN REWARD MODES. Some may even say the majority of active players would.
Actually I can only think of a couple player types who would play rewards modes stuff more frequently than a sandbox mode =
lazy people and
people who only care about progression.
if you only care about progression then that means you do care about progression. If you care about progression as a #1 goal then your obviously competitive. Everyone who's competitive would want to experiment and make good use of a sandbox mode to improve their game knowledge and test out their teams before actual combat use. So people who care about progression only would by default use sandbox mode.
That leaves just lazy people. Oh and people who are super busy in real life which I doubt is a significant portion of the player base. Most people play phone games because they have additional spare time not because they are super busy in real life. Maybe I'm wrong and my doctor is playing star wars in between surgeries to get his 600 in and hitting the tank. Really doubt this is any sizable amount of CGs target market...
Anyways that just leaves lazy people
So your saying most of the player base is lazy and wont use a sandbox mode because there is no in game reward for their time investment?
Do you have any data to support your case? Or your just making up stuff to support CGs lack of excitement about being asked to make a sandbox mode.
But your thinking highlights exactly what's wrong with CG in my opinion.
Your thinking is essentially that people wont play it because there is no in game reward.
The reward is knowledge, actually playing the game, theory crafting and experimenting but all of this is meaningless to you and CG because it can not be boxed up and sold in q bundle for Crystal's. That's the real truth and reason why there will never be a sandbox mode.
In the end your probally right. If they did make a sandbox mode it would be so broken (like 100 Crystal's for 1 test fight) that no one would use it and it would be the event played by the lowest % of people. (Only because CG would try to monetize it heavily)
with the long development time of teams and relatively stable metas and known listings of counters, how many times do you think the average player will repeat battles ?
I'm not saying it wouldn't be used, but for most players it would hit a saturation point where they are not going to keep it a top priority to battle 5, 10, 20 more times a day just because they can.
No I dont think they wont use it because it doesn't offer rewards, but the continuation of play will drop off "for no reason", players dont like X, but they will keep doing it at some level for their guild or for the rewards, without those at some point due to RL or other reasons (like saturation).
do you have any issues with any of the crunches going on in the game? are you happy with your ability to develop fast enough?
many players are not. Do you think they should divert development time to something that would slow development of things that would help with player development?
you can keep your jaded view out of the conversation to keep it constructive, thats ok.
(Nute Gunray) "You assume too much."
You're putting a lot of faith in CG that they're actually developing things that would help the player development. Honestly part of the frustrating part of the slow grind is that every new thing they add is another huge requirement in gear levels. LSGTB for example is an absolute gear wall and they stated they have no intentions of adding anything towards progression or tuning the difficulty.
So my guess is the next nee thing they add to game will be just as requirement heavy as LSGTB or even GL and again giving content that is rather unplayable or unenjoyable.
At least with the most basic of sandbox modes/interguild arena, we create the content... that can be played and enjoyed.
If you dont have some faith in that, then why be here.
If I had 10% of the feelings expressed here about the dev team, i wouldnt be here.
Say what you will we have had events and things added that have increased the influx of needed materials. No it will never be at the pace the players want.
Cause I love Star Wars more than I have faith in CG.
They have explained where they are coming from with the "data", and they have other places where they monitor and talk with players.
agree or dont, they have some information about the situation. There are also other points that can be made:
- if a player has something going on IRL, anything not rewards based would probably be the first thing they dont play.
- not everyone will use it. plain and simple, a mode like this will without a doubt have the lowest % of interaction compared to modes that give rewards.
- unfortunately there is no "simple compromise", once it is in game people are going to ask for upgrades and QOL, its a game feature and it would need attention as time moves on. in for a penny in for a pound.
I think the last reason there is one of the main reasons we have been dragged on for a while with a maybe, and now its more of a hard no. At one point it was considered, but now the long term investment of resources is just not something they want to considering investing in, because it would start to limit their ability to put out content.
Think about it, since the JG has been introduced, how many times have you redone events just for something to play?
from a business sense (not $$) it makes sense, its a large (and continuing) investment for a lower/unknown gain.
Can you ask them for the data showing a significant portion of players don’t want a new raid? You know that thing they ‘worked on’ that is now paused for some new garbage that no one asked for, but is better?
After you show me the quote where they said a significant portion of the players dont want a new raid.
There’s no quote saying the data shows we don’t want a raid. That’s in regards to sandbox mode.
As for the raid though, they better have something amazing planned because to have the player base beg for a new raid for almost a year now, the devs start working on it, stop and then claim to have something else, it better be amazing. GL’s were a let down. Majorly. The event was stale and boring and shouldn’t have taken months to roll out.
All we gotten this year are GL’s, which are virtually whale and kraken exclusive, (yes there are maybe a couple underlying FTP that did it but they are the exceptions), new tiers to the assault battles (thumbs up tho those) and a couple marquees. Not the ocean of content they claimed.
Just wait and see. They said we’ll find out in a few weeks, none of us are likely going anywhere until we find out. CG certainly hasn’t earned any blind faith but it could be amazing like the GAC was or it could be horrible, like more relic levels or Ships 3.0: Vehicle Boogaloo. Either way there is no point in complaining about what we’re not getting until we find out what that trade off is going towards.
Is there any point in q and a now they just seem to back track on everything, they make their own conclusions like everyone loves relics and GL duels and not enough people want sandbox , just cause I don’t spam the chat every second of the day doesn’t mean I’m not interested in a sandbox do a public survey so we can all see the results so CG can’t fudge them. Finally this was q and a wast just a giant no to everything, what was the point? Btw mod upgrades are coming that’s what we have to look forward to and the reason why they won’t nerf ls geo.
They have explained where they are coming from with the "data", and they have other places where they monitor and talk with players.
agree or dont, they have some information about the situation. There are also other points that can be made:
- if a player has something going on IRL, anything not rewards based would probably be the first thing they dont play.
- not everyone will use it. plain and simple, a mode like this will without a doubt have the lowest % of interaction compared to modes that give rewards.
- unfortunately there is no "simple compromise", once it is in game people are going to ask for upgrades and QOL, its a game feature and it would need attention as time moves on. in for a penny in for a pound.
I think the last reason there is one of the main reasons we have been dragged on for a while with a maybe, and now its more of a hard no. At one point it was considered, but now the long term investment of resources is just not something they want to considering investing in, because it would start to limit their ability to put out content.
Think about it, since the JG has been introduced, how many times have you redone events just for something to play?
from a business sense (not $$) it makes sense, its a large (and continuing) investment for a lower/unknown gain.
Can you ask them for the data showing a significant portion of players don’t want a new raid? You know that thing they ‘worked on’ that is now paused for some new garbage that no one asked for, but is better?
After you show me the quote where they said a significant portion of the players dont want a new raid.
To be fair he didn't say they said that.
The community was hyped for a raid and in a classic CG move they've gone in the direction of, 'here's what they say they want, so let's overcomplicate that thing, change it into something else, deliver it, and then go silent for 2 weeks after it drops.
2 weeks later
"We saw high levels of community engagement with thing 'X' and we are very pleased with this.
Thanks CG, maybe just deliver on your promises of communication now and then and you wouldn't get blasted so wildly when you do actually speak to us.
All we gotten this year are GL’s, which are virtually whale and kraken exclusive, (yes there are maybe a couple underlying FTP that did it but they are the exceptions), new tiers to the assault battles (thumbs up tho those) and a couple marquees. Not the ocean of content they claimed.
When you say "this year" do you mean the full year that is completed, 2019, or do you mean so far this year in 2020?
If you mean 2020 then I'd say the year isn't over yet so maybe more coming. (One can hope)
If you mean 2019 then there were some new character events, Padme, Jevan, Drevan, Malac, GAS.
Not that any of those were available to anyone who hadn't been playing at least 6 months already, more like 18 months.
That said, as someone who has been playing 13 months & is has caught to the point of Malac being my next project, I can say nothing they release is geared towards newer players. (Except Marquees)
I like the Journey guide since it basically acts as a good point to aim for when you'll get a new character.
Oh sure, maybe you'll get lucky & pick it up at the 6/9 month points when it shows up for the 3rd/4th time, but its almost just as easy to wait for the 5th/1yr point when it pops into the Guide.
And really, given the fact that all events now require G12-13-Relic levels, even if you have the farm done in 6 months you might not have the gear for the entire team so the 1 year point just makes sense for FTP IMO.
If your FTP from 4 years ago & have an entire roster sitting at G12+3 then sure, maybe its not as long a farm but for the rest of us that aren't in that situation new events are completely unattainable.
Replies
I think you undermine your point with the 3.5 year to g13 a toon. It took me my whole life to g13 my first toon, that contributed nothing...
Also what is you starting reference point for a F2P in this instance?
A brand new account?
Oh shoot I did forget to account for my 1.5 year break, sorry, that's my bad XD
And I was banking on a GR Jedi rework, I had no clue she would *continue* to contribute nothing. And now apparently she will take even longer to be relevant again, thanks to delaying/cancelling reworks. Another reason I'm annoyed with this Q&A
Okay, but you can only claim to have actively worked on g13 since it came out, in may or june or whatever.
But anyway, i see your edit addresses a lot of what i said elsewise
Yeah sorry for the lack of clarity, but what I essentially meant to portray was a good representation of the average F2P, with a few variations I have experience with like active relic farming. The average F2P is (most likely) a larger portion of the player base than hardcore F2P, especially because really hardcore players are substantially more likely to turn to whaling in the sake of progress.
And you’re only showing your lack of reading comprehension skills. I never said marketing is not part of business (or whatever kind of point you’re trying to make). But if you can show me a direct correlation between marketing budgets and increases in revenue, I’ll be happy to read it. And I mean something that actually uses numbers and facts...not the underpants gnomes: Step 1=marketing, Step 2=, Step 3=profit.
Regardless, this is getting off topic, and I’ve been taken away from my original point. I’ll stop this now.
Are you saying that isn't the case?
with the long development time of teams and relatively stable metas and known listings of counters, how many times do you think the average player will repeat battles ?
I'm not saying it wouldn't be used, but for most players it would hit a saturation point where they are not going to keep it a top priority to battle 5, 10, 20 more times a day just because they can.
No I dont think they wont use it because it doesn't offer rewards, but the continuation of play will drop off "for no reason", players dont like X, but they will keep doing it at some level for their guild or for the rewards, without those at some point due to RL or other reasons (like saturation).
do you have any issues with any of the crunches going on in the game? are you happy with your ability to develop fast enough?
many players are not. Do you think they should divert development time to something that would slow development of things that would help with player development?
you can keep your jaded view out of the conversation to keep it constructive, thats ok.
(Nute Gunray) "You assume too much."
You're putting a lot of faith in CG that they're actually developing things that would help the player development. Honestly part of the frustrating part of the slow grind is that every new thing they add is another huge requirement in gear levels. LSGTB for example is an absolute gear wall and they stated they have no intentions of adding anything towards progression or tuning the difficulty.
So my guess is the next nee thing they add to game will be just as requirement heavy as LSGTB or even GL and again giving content that is rather unplayable or unenjoyable.
At least with the most basic of sandbox modes/interguild arena, we create the content... that can be played and enjoyed.
If you dont have some faith in that, then why be here.
If I had 10% of the feelings expressed here about the dev team, i wouldnt be here.
Say what you will we have had events and things added that have increased the influx of needed materials. No it will never be at the pace the players want.
Just an FYI, some quick math
80% of the players fall into your category 1.
20% fall into your lazy, RL , category 2.
80% base for both all ingame modes, which could include a sandbox mode.
Of that 20% some portion of players 'X' would still do any game mode that has rewards or something that helps them progress or helps their guild, but dont do the sandbox.
80% + X is greater than 80%.
So yes it will be a lower % of players. No I dont think this is a good enough reason on it's own to not do it, but that doesnt make that statement wrong, by any means.
Can you ask them for the data showing a significant portion of players don’t want a new raid? You know that thing they ‘worked on’ that is now paused for some new garbage that no one asked for, but is better?
After you show me the quote where they said a significant portion of the players dont want a new raid.
Cause I love Star Wars more than I have faith in CG.
Hope is different than faith.
There’s no quote saying the data shows we don’t want a raid. That’s in regards to sandbox mode.
As for the raid though, they better have something amazing planned because to have the player base beg for a new raid for almost a year now, the devs start working on it, stop and then claim to have something else, it better be amazing. GL’s were a let down. Majorly. The event was stale and boring and shouldn’t have taken months to roll out.
All we gotten this year are GL’s, which are virtually whale and kraken exclusive, (yes there are maybe a couple underlying FTP that did it but they are the exceptions), new tiers to the assault battles (thumbs up tho those) and a couple marquees. Not the ocean of content they claimed.
To be fair he didn't say they said that.
The community was hyped for a raid and in a classic CG move they've gone in the direction of, 'here's what they say they want, so let's overcomplicate that thing, change it into something else, deliver it, and then go silent for 2 weeks after it drops.
2 weeks later
"We saw high levels of community engagement with thing 'X' and we are very pleased with this.
Thanks CG, maybe just deliver on your promises of communication now and then and you wouldn't get blasted so wildly when you do actually speak to us.
When you say "this year" do you mean the full year that is completed, 2019, or do you mean so far this year in 2020?
If you mean 2020 then I'd say the year isn't over yet so maybe more coming. (One can hope)
If you mean 2019 then there were some new character events, Padme, Jevan, Drevan, Malac, GAS.
Not that any of those were available to anyone who hadn't been playing at least 6 months already, more like 18 months.
That said, as someone who has been playing 13 months & is has caught to the point of Malac being my next project, I can say nothing they release is geared towards newer players. (Except Marquees)
I like the Journey guide since it basically acts as a good point to aim for when you'll get a new character.
Oh sure, maybe you'll get lucky & pick it up at the 6/9 month points when it shows up for the 3rd/4th time, but its almost just as easy to wait for the 5th/1yr point when it pops into the Guide.
And really, given the fact that all events now require G12-13-Relic levels, even if you have the farm done in 6 months you might not have the gear for the entire team so the 1 year point just makes sense for FTP IMO.
If your FTP from 4 years ago & have an entire roster sitting at G12+3 then sure, maybe its not as long a farm but for the rest of us that aren't in that situation new events are completely unattainable.