Matchmaking is broken

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R_Taylor95
20 posts Member
edited August 2020
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So the picture with the two GLs is my GAC opponent. The photo with 0 GLs is mine. Please also notice the shear GP difference between my opponent and me. I would love to see CGs response to this. I don’t know how this is considered an even fight. Can someone please help explain? @CG_SBCrumb @CG_TopHat
Post edited by Kyno on

Replies

  • R_Taylor95 wrote: »
    d53cmk3e3ed7.png
    nvdqt5md9zc4.png

    So the picture with the two GLs is my GAC opponent. The photo with 0 GLs is mine. Please also notice the shear GP difference between my opponent and me. I would love to see CGs response to this. I don’t know how this is considered an even fight. Can someone please help explain? @CG_SBCrumb @CG_TopHat

    Post the 2 ally codes so we can do an analysis.

    I have 400K GP on my opponent, 22 more zetas and 2 GL to his one. But when you do the analysis we are the same top 80 GP

  • You’re not matched on total GP.

    Your GP is really high for someone that doesn’t own a GL. Looking at r7 Chewbacca, B1, GBA, GMY; r6 Padmé; r5 CLS and r4 Ezra I’d say you are over applying relic levels to toons that don’t really benefit from the investment. Can’t tell though, but if we saw your whole roster there might be more dead GP in there. This inflates your top 80 GP and has matched you against someone more frugal with their resources.

    Also, for someone to be that far on with farming KAM but still not have either GL, you must be a microdot on the swgoh Venn diagram.
  • You’re not matched on total GP.

    Your GP is really high for someone that doesn’t own a GL. Looking at r7 Chewbacca, B1, GBA, GMY; r6 Padmé; r5 CLS and r4 Ezra I’d say you are over applying relic levels to toons that don’t really benefit from the investment. Can’t tell though, but if we saw your whole roster there might be more dead GP in there. This inflates your top 80 GP and has matched you against someone more frugal with their resources.

    Also, for someone to be that far on with farming KAM but still not have either GL, you must be a microdot on the swgoh Venn diagram.

    Our top 80 shouldn’t matter. My point is match making is broken. When they came up with the current matchmaking, GLs weren’t a factor. Now they are and it needs to be addressed in TW and GAC. But to entertain that comment our top 80 is about the same, with me being .12 higher and my 6 dots are double his. In every other category he has me beat.
  • I have two unnecessary relics (to a degree) and that is Ezra and Kanan.
  • Waqui
    8548 posts Member
    Your screenshots are not worth much, if the rosters are sorted by "all", which will list your favourites before your g13s.
  • Rath_Tarr wrote: »

    I disagree, but that still doesn’t answer the question. Why is their matchmaking so messed up that this happens.
  • Kyno
    31481 posts Moderator
    R_Taylor95 wrote: »
    Rath_Tarr wrote: »

    I disagree, but that still doesn’t answer the question. Why is their matchmaking so messed up that this happens.

    We are each given the ability to build the tools we think will be effective. They measure this in GP, for GAC, specifically the GP of the top 80, which is enough toons to fill a map and fight an equal amount of teams.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    R_Taylor95 wrote: »
    Rath_Tarr wrote: »

    I disagree, but that still doesn’t answer the question. Why is their matchmaking so messed up that this happens.

    We are each given the ability to build the tools we think will be effective. They measure this in GP, for GAC, specifically the GP of the top 80, which is enough toons to fill a map and fight an equal amount of teams.

    I understand, but GLs should not be valued the same as a ResTrooper or a Hermit yoda. They need their own value in the matchmaking process that ranks them higher than other characters.
  • R_Taylor95 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    R_Taylor95 wrote: »
    Rath_Tarr wrote: »

    I disagree, but that still doesn’t answer the question. Why is their matchmaking so messed up that this happens.

    We are each given the ability to build the tools we think will be effective. They measure this in GP, for GAC, specifically the GP of the top 80, which is enough toons to fill a map and fight an equal amount of teams.

    I understand, but GLs should not be valued the same as a ResTrooper or a Hermit yoda. They need their own value in the matchmaking process that ranks them higher than other characters.
    They are not valued the same as res trooper or Hoda though.

    Maxed Rey has nearly 50k GP, which is almost double relic 3 Hoda and much more than double relic 5 res trooper.

    On top of that, the GLs require 12 Relic toons, many of which are unlikely to feature in someone’s GAC attack or defence plans, so they already carry a large amount of GP bloat.

    I would also argue you have more than 2 unnecessary relics - it’s not just about taking them to g13, it’s how far up the relics you push them. R5, r6, r7 add a load of GP and the performance of the toon is not enhanced enough to make it worth it for many characters.
  • Waqui
    8548 posts Member
    R_Taylor95 wrote: »
    Rath_Tarr wrote: »

    I disagree, but that still doesn’t answer the question.

    Your question was:
    R_Taylor95 wrote: »
    I don’t know how this is considered an even fight. Can someone please help explain?

    The answer is: It may not be an even fight, but since you have matching top-X GP it's a fair fight. Bloating your GP with relic Carth, Kanan, ROLO, CHS (without unlocking JKL) and whatnot was your own choice.

  • R_Taylor95 wrote: »
    d53cmk3e3ed7.png
    nvdqt5md9zc4.png

    So the picture with the two GLs is my GAC opponent. The photo with 0 GLs is mine. Please also notice the shear GP difference between my opponent and me. I would love to see CGs response to this. I don’t know how this is considered an even fight. Can someone please help explain? @CG_SBCrumb @CG_TopHat

    I understand your frustration, but I don't agree with you. The problem isn't with matchmaking.
    And comparing total GP is a losing argument. (You could add 2M GP to the bottom 80% of your roster and it wouldn't help you in GAC)

    The problem is with game balance and how GP is calculated. For that there is no easy solution, and it's at the core of CG's business model, so I wouldn't expect them to make any changes.

    My recommendation is to focus more attention on the Meta teams like your opponent (if you prioritize GAC).
  • kfcjhn5ah2gf.jpeg
    It’s still a messed up system. But who needs GLs
  • Congratulations on the win!

    Matchmaking is not "messed up" you just dislike the results because you have neglected the roster management aspect of GAC.
  • Waqui
    8548 posts Member
    R_Taylor95 wrote: »
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    It’s still a messed up system. But who needs GLs

    Not as messed up as this whole discussion.

  • Rath_Tarr wrote: »
    Congratulations on the win!

    Matchmaking is not "messed up" you just dislike the results because you have neglected the roster management aspect of GAC.

    Obviously Not.
  • TVF
    30976 posts Member
    R_Taylor95 wrote: »
    Rath_Tarr wrote: »
    Congratulations on the win!

    Matchmaking is not "messed up" you just dislike the results because you have neglected the roster management aspect of GAC.

    Obviously Not.

    Well, debatable.
    The CGDF is no more. Now we hate CG because of conquest. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Maybe GLs need more GP allocated to them, as they make such a huge difference in match ups. Perhaps easier than trying to have a better algorithm, which seems a non-issue from CG's perspective.
  • Kyno
    31481 posts Moderator
    Wimma wrote: »
    Maybe GLs need more GP allocated to them, as they make such a huge difference in match ups. Perhaps easier than trying to have a better algorithm, which seems a non-issue from CG's perspective.

    But, why?

    Any player who has the same matchmaking GP as someone with a GL, has made their choices and built their roster to that power, for whatever goals they had. If one of those goals was GAC, then they would either be prepared for the likely toons they will see, or would have made different choices along the way.

    This could happen even if s GL had more power.

    There are changes they could make, and try to make it more fair, but the focus should not be on GLs, they are just like every previous meta. Adapt, and overcome.
  • Disagree. All previous meta had a team that could counter them. Counters for GLs often use key toons from multiple other teams, so yes, you can get a counter team, but it will break many others. TW is a good example of this - the more GL advantage one side has, the more likely they are to win.
    My main issue is the power of GLs does put the focus on them, and forces you to aim for them to stay relevant in GAC/TW, so the game moves away from free choice to go after teams you want to. If you remove GLs, the game is a lot closer to paper-scissors-rock, where players have more freedom to choose and still be competitive and be able to contribute. We have to adapt, do agree there. But you can't farm up anything, as the teams are not balanced. GLs are just the extreme example of that in my view.
  • Kyno
    31481 posts Moderator
    They may or may not move that way, only time will tell and either way it's still going to have some sort of driving force, just like the meta chance. They are not likely to ever just ley it be open choice as to what is at the top end.

    We can agree to disagree, the GL counters are the general counter toons used in previous metas. Maybe at worst 2 teams get broken up, and again, that should be accounted for by anyone building up a GAC focused roster. Moves/counter moves....adapt and over come. Just like each meta before.

    The meta reports would disagree with your statement about the game ever being rock paper scissors.
  • Can't say I was across the previous meta counters in depth, but I assume Wat wasn't needed for previous counters, but yes, agree everyone will have their own opinions.
    I always saw JKR, then DR, then Padme & GAS, who all seemed to be somewhat effective against each other, and a mix of them in TW meant some success. But I could throw my whole 4.9M roster against a single GL Rey team in TW with likely no success.
    I still see GLs as the main factor in TW win or loss, and those stats would be nice to see - TW results with GL counts/comparisons. Wouldn't know where to get that info, if it is even available?
  • Ultra
    8437 posts Moderator
    The reason top 80 GP works is because you need 40 toons for defense, 40 toons for offense

    So on paper, it is a good enough
    Wimma wrote: »
    Maybe GLs need more GP allocated to them, as they make such a huge difference in match ups. Perhaps easier than trying to have a better algorithm, which seems a non-issue from CG's perspective.
    They are one of the highest GP toons in the game. The ultimate ability adds ~7.5k+ GP, you'll have several relic level advantage for each ultimate ability applied. Each Galactic Legend has a non-Galactic Legend counter squad, so you can brute force and win against Galactic Legend owners.

    There are players with no GL beating 2 GL owners, and so on
  • Wimma
    152 posts Member
    I get the theory in GAC (if you have a GL you may lack some depth compared to your opponent), and that seems to work no too bad. Can't often get full clear against a GL roster, but you can win.
    But it doesn't seem to work that way in TW. Does the TW match making only count everyone's top X toons, like GAC?
    Seems when we hit massive GL lists they have more of everything, but perhaps that's the numbers issue (47 signed up vs 40 from the opponent, and thus smaller zones to negate any roster depth advantage)?
  • Wimma wrote: »
    Maybe GLs need more GP allocated to them, as they make such a huge difference in match ups. Perhaps easier than trying to have a better algorithm, which seems a non-issue from CG's perspective.
    I have already allocated more than enough GP to my GL Kylo thank you very much and I haven't even unlocked him yet.

    k7pno18xzso6.png
  • The whole point of farming GLs is to gain an advantage, so complaining that you should never be matched against someone with a GL when you don't have one is ridiculous. However, I've found my matches much more difficult since unlocking my own 2 GLs ( F2P I might add ), so I would argue it's not even an advantage for Gac at all.

    However, that said the real problem in gac matchmaking is the amount of GP added per relic level. The difference in true character power is pretty linear between each relic level, however the amount GALACTIC power added per relic level is on a big upward curve. I feel like that curve starts to really deviate from the linear line of how much better the character is per relic level around relic level 4. This is why you see most of the top gac players with a roster full of r3 or lower characters. I feel like players are being punished for going high relics instead of being encouraged/rewarded like a progression based game should do. CG really needs to address this It's crazy that going from g12 to G13 R0 adds a negligible amount of GP whereas going from R6 to R7 adds thousands. We really need an overhaul of GP added at the lower levels to appropriately reflect the true power difference between gear/relic levels ( which would also help TB ). Other option is remove GP at the higher relic levels but I don't think removing GP is a good idea because of TB. Last thing we need is to lose GP while trying to max out LSTB.
  • R_Taylor95 wrote: »
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    It’s still a messed up system. But who needs GLs

    Must not be too messed up. You still had a chance to win and pulled it out. If it was so bad, you would have been crushed.
  • TVF
    30976 posts Member
    edited October 2020
    Rath_Tarr wrote: »
    Wimma wrote: »
    Maybe GLs need more GP allocated to them, as they make such a huge difference in match ups. Perhaps easier than trying to have a better algorithm, which seems a non-issue from CG's perspective.
    I have already allocated more than enough GP to my GL Kylo thank you very much and I haven't even unlocked him yet.

    k7pno18xzso6.png

    I'm not necessarily taking the stance that GLs need more GP allocated, but this was your choice.

    EDIT: Unless you're farming tickets now.
    The CGDF is no more. Now we hate CG because of conquest. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Wimma wrote: »
    Can't say I was across the previous meta counters in depth, but I assume Wat wasn't needed for previous counters, but yes, agree everyone will have their own opinions.
    I always saw JKR, then DR, then Padme & GAS, who all seemed to be somewhat effective against each other, and a mix of them in TW meant some success. But I could throw my whole 4.9M roster against a single GL Rey team in TW with likely no success.
    I still see GLs as the main factor in TW win or loss, and those stats would be nice to see - TW results with GL counts/comparisons. Wouldn't know where to get that info, if it is even available?

    GL Rey is easy to beat in 5v5. Vader, wat, thrawn +2. I prefer darth revan and dark Bastilla since the fear makes it more reliable and probably higher banners. I use it mostly in arena but win frequently with full health and protection. You do lose your Darth revan team and part of your ep team but you can throw ep and malak in another sith team and make it better than it otherwise would be.
  • Hawthorne wrote: »
    The whole point of farming GLs is to gain an advantage, so complaining that you should never be matched against someone with a GL when you don't have one is ridiculous. However, I've found my matches much more difficult since unlocking my own 2 GLs ( F2P I might add ), so I would argue it's not even an advantage for Gac at all.

    However, that said the real problem in gac matchmaking is the amount of GP added per relic level. The difference in true character power is pretty linear between each relic level, however the amount GALACTIC power added per relic level is on a big upward curve. I feel like that curve starts to really deviate from the linear line of how much better the character is per relic level around relic level 4. This is why you see most of the top gac players with a roster full of r3 or lower characters. I feel like players are being punished for going high relics instead of being encouraged/rewarded like a progression based game should do. CG really needs to address this It's crazy that going from g12 to G13 R0 adds a negligible amount of GP whereas going from R6 to R7 adds thousands. We really need an overhaul of GP added at the lower levels to appropriately reflect the true power difference between gear/relic levels ( which would also help TB ). Other option is remove GP at the higher relic levels but I don't think removing GP is a good idea because of TB. Last thing we need is to lose GP while trying to max out LSTB.

    I agree and have been saying this for a while now. I don't see it happening unfortunately.
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