How does Health Down work again?

NicWester · February 16, 2017 9:49PM

I think this is how it works, please correct me when/if I'm wrong:
A character has 1000/1000hp, Health Down brings them down to 800/800. If you ignore them, when HD expires they will be 1000/1000 again.

If you hit them for 100 damage they will go to 700/800, and when HD expires they will be at 875/1000. Right?

I'm trying to gameplan around Nihilus and think Grievous will be the answer. AoE heal debuff, then AoE Health Down to take a sizeable bite out of their enormous boosted health pool.

kodias · February 16, 2017 9:54PM

If you want to plan to counter DN I would just go Resistance. Expose hits for 20% of their health so that will be a huge counter to their enormous health pools. That being said I am sure DN is going to be behind a huge pay wall so you wont see many DN led sith teams for a long time.

Unfortunately I can't comment with certainty on your Health down question but how you explain it makes sense to me. Their health after HD expires would be the same percentage as they had when HD was on.

Josh_K · February 16, 2017 9:58PM

Health down reduces both the current and max health by 20%. It basically preserves the current percentage health while lowering max.

NicWester · February 16, 2017 10:08PM

kodias wrote: »

If you want to plan to counter DN I would just go Resistance. Expose hits for 20% of their health so that will be a huge counter to their enormous health pools. That being said I am sure DN is going to be behind a huge pay wall so you wont see many DN led sith teams for a long time.

Unfortunately I can't comment with certainty on your Health down question but how you explain it makes sense to me. Their health after HD expires would be the same percentage as they had when HD was on.

If I'm interpreting Health Down correctly, this would basically be Expose, except it affects every attack instead of just the first attack. The difference being Expose does its 200 damage (using the made up numbers from the first post) when you hit, Health Down gives an effective 20% damage boost to each hit.

I.... I think.

Josh_K wrote: »

Health down reduces both the current and max health by 20%. It basically preserves the current percentage health while lowering max.

Yeah, but what happens when the effect expires? Their max goes back to normal, what happens to their current hp?

Is it reproportioned?

Dark_Omega · March 4, 2017 2:37PM

Bump

Misogi1981 · April 2, 2017 12:54AM

This is why if you're going to be using characters with health down powers like grievous or zeta nihilus, it's double whammy to pair them up with units that can also expose on top of it.

JinSaotome · April 2, 2017 4:45AM

Health down is pretty useless right now. It needs to be reworked into something else. You're basically trying to kill a character 20% faster, but against the clock before health down expires. Except it doesn't affect protection.

What health down should do is allow attacks to bypass protection for a chance of killing a character by directly attacking their health. Or something like that, because as it is there's no real purpose.

Mastoraz · April 2, 2017 4:53AM

It's more to help nihilus get his cool down aoe power off better... The health down is a bonus

Mazurka · April 2, 2017 4:55AM

JinSaotome wrote: »

Health down is pretty useless right now. It needs to be reworked into something else. You're basically trying to kill a character 20% faster, but against the clock before health down expires. Except it doesn't affect protection.

What health down should do is allow attacks to bypass protection for a chance of killing a character by directly attacking their health. Or something like that, because as it is there's no real purpose.

Health down is far from useless. I like killing guys faster, idk about you

Vertigo · April 2, 2017 5:03AM

Mazurka wrote: »

JinSaotome wrote: »

Health down is pretty useless right now. It needs to be reworked into something else. You're basically trying to kill a character 20% faster, but against the clock before health down expires. Except it doesn't affect protection.

What health down should do is allow attacks to bypass protection for a chance of killing a character by directly attacking their health. Or something like that, because as it is there's no real purpose.

Health down is far from useless. I like killing guys faster, idk about you

He seems like a slow roaster, but I think he just doesn't understand the power that is the microwave.

sneeekypants · April 2, 2017 7:30AM

JinSaotome wrote: »

Health down is pretty useless right now. It needs to be reworked into something else. You're basically trying to kill a character 20% faster, but against the clock before health down expires. Except it doesn't affect protection.

What health down should do is allow attacks to bypass protection for a chance of killing a character by directly attacking their health. Or something like that, because as it is there's no real purpose.

The ability requires more thought than Rebel shoot them with a blaster for damage. It was released to be used in conjunction with the other new sith abilities.

Even if it expires, it has the function of doing extra damage to anything that damages health whether it be due to protection being gone or a special ability that bypasses protection.

You will notice it the most in later rounds once the protection is gone, making them easier to kill by "amplifying" damage.

Donkeysaurus · April 3, 2017 5:56PM

I'm also curious about the formula and mechanics of health down. But I think in the case of DN zeta unique you guys might be missing the boat. It's applied every turn to every enemy in a loop so long as DN is alive. So the simplest way to analyze it is that save for cleansing and resists you have 20% less Health to burn through. So its like a constant expose which heals will not replenish since Max health is capped.

Vertigo · April 3, 2017 5:59PM

Donkeysaurus wrote: »

I'm also curious about the formula and mechanics of health down. But I think in the case of DN zeta unique you guys might be missing the boat. It's applied every turn to every enemy in a loop so long as DN is alive. So the simplest way to analyze it is that save for cleansing and resists you have 20% less Health to burn through. So its like a constant expose which heals will not replenish since Max health is capped.

Yup its a pretty good debuff to have constantly applied, but it won't be very effective against a team with tenacity up.

NicWester · April 3, 2017 6:04PM

Donkeysaurus wrote: »

I'm also curious about the formula and mechanics of health down. But I think in the case of DN zeta unique you guys might be missing the boat. It's applied every turn to every enemy in a loop so long as DN is alive. So the simplest way to analyze it is that save for cleansing and resists you have 20% less Health to burn through. So its like a constant expose which heals will not replenish since Max health is capped.

Good point. Solid point. But the original question is about Health Down as a counter to Nihilus =P

Vertigo · April 3, 2017 6:10PM

NicWester wrote: »

Donkeysaurus wrote: »

I'm also curious about the formula and mechanics of health down. But I think in the case of DN zeta unique you guys might be missing the boat. It's applied every turn to every enemy in a loop so long as DN is alive. So the simplest way to analyze it is that save for cleansing and resists you have 20% less Health to burn through. So its like a constant expose which heals will not replenish since Max health is capped.

Good point. Solid point. But the original question is about Health Down as a counter to Nihilus =P

I mean if you look at Nihilus, g11 with protection mods 50k protection is pretty reasonable: (https://swgoh.gg/u/vertigo/collection/darth-nihilus/). Add to that 20/25k base health you're looking at a health pool of 75k health with his leadership ability. With health down applied Nihilus goes from 75k total hp to 60k total hp. Health down effectively cuts off 15k damage so you only have to deal 60k instead of 75k damage total to Nihilus. Is this an effective counter? Maybe, it sure helps a lot, but you're still going to need to pair it with some ability that stops healing as 60k health is still a large pool of health and can be healed to max through the lifesteal. It will mean you need less turns to kill them though which should allow you to hopefully kill them before healing immunity wears off.

LeoRavus · April 3, 2017 8:43PM

I would recommend staying far away from darth nihilus health down zeta.

Why? Because chaze is on the rise, and health down makes baze taunt like mad. When chirrut gets applied with health down, and then it wears off after 2 turns (which it does and needs to be reapplied), or chirrut cleanses it, he'll be below his max health even if he has full protection. Then baze will taunt.

Basically nihilus zeta is giving the opponent's baze license to taunt over and over. It's the worst. Anything that ignores protection is a huge liability when it comes to chaze and the taunting half of that duo.

Lord_LeBobcat · April 3, 2017 8:54PM

LeoRavus wrote: »

I would recommend staying far away from darth nihilus health down zeta.

Why? Because chaze is on the rise, and health down makes baze taunt like mad. When chirrut gets applied with health down, and then it wears off after 2 turns (which it does and needs to be reapplied), or chirrut cleanses it, he'll be below his max health even if he has full protection. Then baze will taunt.

Basically nihilus zeta is giving the opponent's baze license to taunt over and over. It's the worst. Anything that ignores protection is a huge liability when it comes to chaze and the taunting half of that duo.

Is this really true

RAYRAY · April 3, 2017 8:55PM

Lord_LeBobcat wrote: »

LeoRavus wrote: »

I would recommend staying far away from darth nihilus health down zeta.

Why? Because chaze is on the rise, and health down makes baze taunt like mad. When chirrut gets applied with health down, and then it wears off after 2 turns (which it does and needs to be reapplied), or chirrut cleanses it, he'll be below his max health even if he has full protection. Then baze will taunt.

Basically nihilus zeta is giving the opponent's baze license to taunt over and over. It's the worst. Anything that ignores protection is a huge liability when it comes to chaze and the taunting half of that duo.

Is this really true

No, none of it is true. I face chaze today and this doesn't happen. Also, "chaze is on the rise"? I have been facing chaze for months, I don't think Leo really knows how this works.

Let me explain, Every time an enemy goes, they get health down unless they have tenacity up. Health down doesn't cause enemies to go below 100% health or ignore protection.

LeoRavus · April 3, 2017 8:56PM

Lord_LeBobcat wrote: »

LeoRavus wrote: »

I would recommend staying far away from darth nihilus health down zeta.

Why? Because chaze is on the rise, and health down makes baze taunt like mad. When chirrut gets applied with health down, and then it wears off after 2 turns (which it does and needs to be reapplied), or chirrut cleanses it, he'll be below his max health even if he has full protection. Then baze will taunt.

Basically nihilus zeta is giving the opponent's baze license to taunt over and over. It's the worst. Anything that ignores protection is a huge liability when it comes to chaze and the taunting half of that duo.

Is this really true

Yeah. Baze will taunt whenever chirrut falls below 100% health, and when chirrut recovers from the health down debuff he'll be below 100% health. Even if he heals himself to 100% as he clears the debuff baze will taunt.

Basically when health down wears off the character regains their max health, but not their full health. They keep the amount of health they had with health down which isn't going to be max.

WompWompRat · April 3, 2017 8:58PM

This makes me think of my own thread from over the weekend ... should I zeta DN's unique as opposed to his leader ability ... since I'm using a Zaul team lol. I'll get the zeta tonight ... so hmm

RAYRAY · April 3, 2017 9:04PM

LeoRavus wrote: »

Lord_LeBobcat wrote: »

LeoRavus wrote: »

I would recommend staying far away from darth nihilus health down zeta.

Why? Because chaze is on the rise, and health down makes baze taunt like mad. When chirrut gets applied with health down, and then it wears off after 2 turns (which it does and needs to be reapplied), or chirrut cleanses it, he'll be below his max health even if he has full protection. Then baze will taunt.

Basically nihilus zeta is giving the opponent's baze license to taunt over and over. It's the worst. Anything that ignores protection is a huge liability when it comes to chaze and the taunting half of that duo.

Is this really true

Yeah. Baze will taunt whenever chirrut falls below 100% health, and when chirrut recovers from the health down debuff he'll be below 100% health. Even if he heals himself to 100% as he clears the debuff baze will taunt.

It doesn't work like that. Health down expires, and Chirrut is still at 100% health, he will remain at 100% health.

LeoRavus · April 3, 2017 9:06PM

RAYRAY wrote: »

Lord_LeBobcat wrote: »

LeoRavus wrote: »

I would recommend staying far away from darth nihilus health down zeta.

Why? Because chaze is on the rise, and health down makes baze taunt like mad. When chirrut gets applied with health down, and then it wears off after 2 turns (which it does and needs to be reapplied), or chirrut cleanses it, he'll be below his max health even if he has full protection. Then baze will taunt.

Basically nihilus zeta is giving the opponent's baze license to taunt over and over. It's the worst. Anything that ignores protection is a huge liability when it comes to chaze and the taunting half of that duo.

Is this really true

No, none of it is true. I face chaze today and this doesn't happen. Also, "chaze is on the rise"? I have been facing chaze for months, I don't think Leo really knows how this works.

Let me explain, Every time an enemy goes, they get health down unless they have tenacity up. Health down doesn't cause enemies to go below 100% health or ignore protection.

I run zeta nihilus and I know this happens. When health down wears off, the enemy is not at full health. They don't regain their max health, just the full potential of what their max health should be. When it comes to chirrut, it makes baze taunt.

I see it when I face them. Chirrut or another cleanser clears his health down debuff, then baze taunts immediately even if chirrut has protection.

RAYRAY · April 3, 2017 9:10PM

LeoRavus wrote: »

RAYRAY wrote: »

Lord_LeBobcat wrote: »

LeoRavus wrote: »

I would recommend staying far away from darth nihilus health down zeta.

Why? Because chaze is on the rise, and health down makes baze taunt like mad. When chirrut gets applied with health down, and then it wears off after 2 turns (which it does and needs to be reapplied), or chirrut cleanses it, he'll be below his max health even if he has full protection. Then baze will taunt.

Basically nihilus zeta is giving the opponent's baze license to taunt over and over. It's the worst. Anything that ignores protection is a huge liability when it comes to chaze and the taunting half of that duo.

Is this really true

No, none of it is true. I face chaze today and this doesn't happen. Also, "chaze is on the rise"? I have been facing chaze for months, I don't think Leo really knows how this works.

Let me explain, Every time an enemy goes, they get health down unless they have tenacity up. Health down doesn't cause enemies to go below 100% health or ignore protection.

I run zeta nihilus and I know this happens. When health down wears off, the enemy is not at full health. They don't regain their max health, just the full potential of what their max health should be. When it comes to chirrut, it makes baze taunt.

I see it when I face them. Chirrut or another cleanser clears his health down debuff, then baze taunts immediately even if chirrut has protection.

I run it too and never noticed Baze taunting more than normal. And I save them for later in the match. Are you sure this happens? Because I don't ever notice health down expiring and then ignoring protection leaving an enemy with 20% less health. Do you run SiT or SA?

LeoRavus · April 3, 2017 9:16PM

RAYRAY wrote: »

LeoRavus wrote: »

RAYRAY wrote: »

Lord_LeBobcat wrote: »

LeoRavus wrote: »

I would recommend staying far away from darth nihilus health down zeta.

Why? Because chaze is on the rise, and health down makes baze taunt like mad. When chirrut gets applied with health down, and then it wears off after 2 turns (which it does and needs to be reapplied), or chirrut cleanses it, he'll be below his max health even if he has full protection. Then baze will taunt.

Basically nihilus zeta is giving the opponent's baze license to taunt over and over. It's the worst. Anything that ignores protection is a huge liability when it comes to chaze and the taunting half of that duo.

Is this really true

No, none of it is true. I face chaze today and this doesn't happen. Also, "chaze is on the rise"? I have been facing chaze for months, I don't think Leo really knows how this works.

Let me explain, Every time an enemy goes, they get health down unless they have tenacity up. Health down doesn't cause enemies to go below 100% health or ignore protection.

I run zeta nihilus and I know this happens. When health down wears off, the enemy is not at full health. They don't regain their max health, just the full potential of what their max health should be. When it comes to chirrut, it makes baze taunt.

I see it when I face them. Chirrut or another cleanser clears his health down debuff, then baze taunts immediately even if chirrut has protection.

I run it too and never noticed Baze taunting more than normal. And I save them for later in the match. Are you sure this happens? Because I don't ever notice health down expiring and then ignoring protection leaving an enemy with 20% less health. Do you run SiT or SA?

No I run no one that ignores protection.

It took me a while to figure out why baze was taunting whenever a cleanser removed health down. I know he only taunts at the beginning of a match, when an enemy is defeated, and whenever chirrut falls below 100% health. Then I heard someone mention that when health down wears off, a character doesn't get their max health filled back up.

Pay close attention when you face chaze and chirrut has health down then cleanses while baze isn't taunting. Apparently chirrut clears the debuff, triggers baze taunt when he's then below 100% health, then heals himself in that order.

Mjay · April 4, 2017 3:24PM

I see so many people referencing when Health Down wears off...but unless cleansed, this won't happen. It is applied every turn. I just read this ENTIRE thread and I think I am more confused on how EXACTLY health down works. LOL! I thought it was simply 20% less Max Health. So instead of say 10k, that toon can only reach a max of 8k. The bigger question for me was how it rolled throughout the match. Does it stack at all, or is it simply to give a character that has 10k a max of 8k throughout the match?

WompWompRat · April 4, 2017 3:27PM

RAYRAY wrote: »

LeoRavus wrote: »

RAYRAY wrote: »

Lord_LeBobcat wrote: »

LeoRavus wrote: »

I would recommend staying far away from darth nihilus health down zeta.

Why? Because chaze is on the rise, and health down makes baze taunt like mad. When chirrut gets applied with health down, and then it wears off after 2 turns (which it does and needs to be reapplied), or chirrut cleanses it, he'll be below his max health even if he has full protection. Then baze will taunt.

Basically nihilus zeta is giving the opponent's baze license to taunt over and over. It's the worst. Anything that ignores protection is a huge liability when it comes to chaze and the taunting half of that duo.

Is this really true

No, none of it is true. I face chaze today and this doesn't happen. Also, "chaze is on the rise"? I have been facing chaze for months, I don't think Leo really knows how this works.

Let me explain, Every time an enemy goes, they get health down unless they have tenacity up. Health down doesn't cause enemies to go below 100% health or ignore protection.

I run zeta nihilus and I know this happens. When health down wears off, the enemy is not at full health. They don't regain their max health, just the full potential of what their max health should be. When it comes to chirrut, it makes baze taunt.

I see it when I face them. Chirrut or another cleanser clears his health down debuff, then baze taunts immediately even if chirrut has protection.

I run it too and never noticed Baze taunting more than normal. And I save them for later in the match. Are you sure this happens? Because I don't ever notice health down expiring and then ignoring protection leaving an enemy with 20% less health. Do you run SiT or SA?

I started running it last night too and noticed the Baze/additional taunt pattern. Interesting.

scuba · April 4, 2017 3:36PM

Mjay wrote: »

I see so many people referencing when Health Down wears off...but unless cleansed, this won't happen. It is applied every turn. I just read this ENTIRE thread and I think I am more confused on how EXACTLY health down works. LOL! I thought it was simply 20% less Max Health. So instead of say 10k, that toon can only reach a max of 8k. The bigger question for me was how it rolled throughout the match. Does it stack at all, or is it simply to give a character that has 10k a max of 8k throughout the match?

It doesn't stack. If they get health down 1 turn and then another it just extends the duration
1st turn get health down
2nd turn get heath down (1st turn health down would have gone away here)
3rd turn doesn't get health at the end of turn health down goes away.

scuba · April 4, 2017 3:37PM

LeoRavus wrote: »

RAYRAY wrote: »

LeoRavus wrote: »

RAYRAY wrote: »

Lord_LeBobcat wrote: »

LeoRavus wrote: »

I would recommend staying far away from darth nihilus health down zeta.

Why? Because chaze is on the rise, and health down makes baze taunt like mad. When chirrut gets applied with health down, and then it wears off after 2 turns (which it does and needs to be reapplied), or chirrut cleanses it, he'll be below his max health even if he has full protection. Then baze will taunt.

Basically nihilus zeta is giving the opponent's baze license to taunt over and over. It's the worst. Anything that ignores protection is a huge liability when it comes to chaze and the taunting half of that duo.

Is this really true

No, none of it is true. I face chaze today and this doesn't happen. Also, "chaze is on the rise"? I have been facing chaze for months, I don't think Leo really knows how this works.

Let me explain, Every time an enemy goes, they get health down unless they have tenacity up. Health down doesn't cause enemies to go below 100% health or ignore protection.

I run zeta nihilus and I know this happens. When health down wears off, the enemy is not at full health. They don't regain their max health, just the full potential of what their max health should be. When it comes to chirrut, it makes baze taunt.

I see it when I face them. Chirrut or another cleanser clears his health down debuff, then baze taunts immediately even if chirrut has protection.

I run it too and never noticed Baze taunting more than normal. And I save them for later in the match. Are you sure this happens? Because I don't ever notice health down expiring and then ignoring protection leaving an enemy with 20% less health. Do you run SiT or SA?

No I run no one that ignores protection.

It took me a while to figure out why baze was taunting whenever a cleanser removed health down. I know he only taunts at the beginning of a match, when an enemy is defeated, and whenever chirrut falls below 100% health. Then I heard someone mention that when health down wears off, a character doesn't get their max health filled back up.

Pay close attention when you face chaze and chirrut has health down then cleanses while baze isn't taunting. Apparently chirrut clears the debuff, triggers baze taunt when he's then below 100% health, then heals himself in that order.

If anyone is less then 100% Health and chirrut is at 100% health and uses his cleanse it will force Baze to taunt because of the health equalization.
This can happen without health down on chirrut.

As you can see below Chirrut, Cassian and Jyn all have health down. When Chirrut cleanses baze does not gain taunt.

In order for baze to gain taunt with chirrut cleanse chirruit must be at 100% health and another ally less than 100% health

Mjay · April 4, 2017 4:21PM

I hear ya Scuba, except there wouldn't be a turn where it went away since it is applied on every enemy turn.

scuba · April 4, 2017 4:38PM

Mjay wrote: »

I hear ya Scuba, except there wouldn't be a turn where it went away since it is applied on every enemy turn.

it can be resisted
Turn 1 apply
Turn 2 apply
Turn 3 resisted

As shown below Cassian had it applied on his previous turn. It was resisted on his next so went away at the end.

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How does Health Down work again?

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