1) They can function on virtually any team (unlike Droids or Zaul or even Wiggs - who generally need Wedge in the lead to maximize their effectiveness).
2) They have no direct counter.
3) They are labelled as Rebels - already one of the strongest factions in the game.
I daily play against them at 7*/gear 11 battling for the number 1 spot at my payout. So I do face them, and I don't use them. I don't even have them. I have no reason to defend them for personal benefit. To your points I'd say:
1) Lots of toons function great on any team individually without the need of a specific other toon. These 2 really need eachother. Chirrut more so. You mentioned Wiggs who absolutely can go into lots of teams as the DPS without Wedge lead.
2) There are tons of direct counters. I used to destroy them with STHan in the previous meta. A counter attack that does little damage fed me TM until Baze was dead and almost nobody on his team had moved yet. Stormtrooper has been reworked to have a similar effect. Zader with an AoE dispeller also ruins their day. Multiple toons do amplified amounts of damage to toons with lots of buffs. We just need more options for counters in more factions. And that's what will happen. Faction passes are the plan moving forward.
3) Sith are the strongest faction. Rebels are one of the largest. But there are still very bad Rebel toons whereas every single Sith in the game is arena viable in some team comp. And just because a faction is big or strong doesn't mean a toon in it should be nerfed. In fact if for instance Bounty Hunters get a faction pass, and you then have a legit support squad to run with Boba (who already counters Chaze to death single handedly) then it would reduce the nerf talk.
So are they on a higher level than lots of toons? Yes. And they are very easily beaten multiple ways with a variety of toons.
The main problem (which the devs have stated explicitly) is that many of the original toons that came out with the game were underwhelming to begin with, and need to be updated to the new power level. Faction passes for bad teams/characters are coming. Nerfs aren't going to happen.
well, the Devs can't very well nerf them (and chances are 100% that they won't) lest you know who write them another stern letter threatening to close their wallets, until of course they open them again the same week so as not to lose their seat at the table.
By themselves, they're cannon fodder. They need to be together to have the synergy to make them great. Sorta like wiggs. And droids. And zaul.
Okay, first, let me say two things:
1) As a general rule, I am opposed to nerfs of any kind. I think they unfairly punish paying customers - and those that "paid" with time and gear.
2) I have no dog in this fight. I can beat Chaze teams and finish #1 arena if I am available around my payout time (that's a different discussion)
Those two things said, I DO think Chaze need to be "balanced". Anyone suggesting that they are not OP to some degree either hasn't played against/with 7* versions at max gear or is simply trying to defend their team. When paired together they do almost everything that they do better than any other character that does them. A tank with an AoE debuff that also calls a strong attacker to assist. An attacker that not only hits like a truck but cleanses and heals - and calls the tank to assist. Both of their basics also have abilities attached to them. Oh, and they both counter most of the time - with those basics.
Now, the above would be a sufficient reason to take a close look at them for rebalancing - but the things that makes it almost a no-brainer are:
1) They can function on virtually any team (unlike Droids or Zaul or even Wiggs - who generally need Wedge in the lead to maximize their effectiveness).
2) They have no direct counter.
3) They are labelled as Rebels - already one of the strongest factions in the game.
@Nikoms565 exactly my point. Together, which I mentioned, they are fantastic. The synergy they have with just two of them makes them plug and play in ANY squad, as you mentioned. You add any combo of boba, zylo, nihilus, rex, GK, etc. etc, super tough team to beat. And yes, most of my top ten has Chaze in their squad from 4* maxed to 7* maxed.
My response to the "nerf Chaze" thing, was based on the fact that alone - according to MY experience from battling them on a daily basis - they get crushed. They need to be together in or to be excellent.
Which is why I mentioned would disagree that they need a nerf. If they were rediculously over powered alone, then the conversation would have merit. I too am generally against Nerfs. There has always been a work around to meta teams, regardless of how stron they are.
My previous examples of zaul, wiggs, droids were only to illustrate that those are factions where the sum is greater than its parts. Together, they are very strong.
I daily play against them at 7*/gear 11 battling for the number 1 spot at my payout.
just curious, does your arm ever get sore from patting yourself on the back so much? is there a single post that you contribute to these forums that doesn't involve some self-congratulatory spiel about how easy everything is or how you're no. 1 at your payout?
"very easily beaten with a variety of toons" -- riiiiiiiiight.
Everything is beatable in this game but what you use to beat someone is likely far easier to beat. i can crush Chaze with my Nihilus lead lineup but if I leave them in for long, I will be targeted and knocked down by all the people who would rather avoid Chaze.
This is why "they have counters" isn't a good barometer for balance. Whoever uses Chaze can beat other lineups without much of a fuss and will drop less than others using Chazeless lineups.
A viscious circle where everyone moves to Chaze to gain the same advantages is the result. Until there is a reliable team that can hold versus Chaze on defense - a real counter - the chazificaion of arena will only continue.
I daily play against them at 7*/gear 11 battling for the number 1 spot at my payout.
just curious, does your arm ever get sore from patting yourself on the back so much? is there a single post that you contribute to these forums that doesn't involve some self-congratulatory spiel about how easy everything is or how you're no. 1 at your payout?
There was explicitly a comment made that said nobody who plays against them would defend them. So it was relevant. One thing I don't do is personally attack people I disagree with. That's the fallback position of someone with no valid argument.
I daily play against them at 7*/gear 11 battling for the number 1 spot at my payout.
just curious, does your arm ever get sore from patting yourself on the back so much? is there a single post that you contribute to these forums that doesn't involve some self-congratulatory spiel about how easy everything is or how you're no. 1 at your payout?
There was explicitly a comment made that said nobody who plays against them would defend them. So it was relevant. One thing I don't do is personally attack people I disagree with. That's the fallback position of someone with no valid argument.
dude, your fake high-road **** is almost as overtly wack as your ridiculous hyperbolic statements like -- "can be very easily beaten by a number of teams" -- really? ok, hotshot, first define "easily beaten" (win ratio/how long the battle took) then provide us with some footage of said victories. you have the floor.
I daily play against them at 7*/gear 11 battling for the number 1 spot at my payout.
just curious, does your arm ever get sore from patting yourself on the back so much? is there a single post that you contribute to these forums that doesn't involve some self-congratulatory spiel about how easy everything is or how you're no. 1 at your payout?
There was explicitly a comment made that said nobody who plays against them would defend them. So it was relevant. One thing I don't do is personally attack people I disagree with. That's the fallback position of someone with no valid argument.
dude, your fake high-road **** is almost as overtly wack as your ridiculous hyperbolic statements like -- "can be very easily beaten by a number of teams" -- really? ok, hotshot, first define "easily beaten" (win ratio/how long the battle took) then provide us with some footage of said victories. you have the floor.
Try searching YouTube yourself, and not cursing at strangers. Stay classy my friend.
I daily play against them at 7*/gear 11 battling for the number 1 spot at my payout.
just curious, does your arm ever get sore from patting yourself on the back so much? is there a single post that you contribute to these forums that doesn't involve some self-congratulatory spiel about how easy everything is or how you're no. 1 at your payout?
There was explicitly a comment made that said nobody who plays against them would defend them. So it was relevant. One thing I don't do is personally attack people I disagree with. That's the fallback position of someone with no valid argument.
dude, your fake high-road **** is almost as overtly wack as your ridiculous hyperbolic statements like -- "can be very easily beaten by a number of teams" -- really? ok, hotshot, first define "easily beaten" (win ratio/how long the battle took) then provide us with some footage of said victories. you have the floor.
Try searching YouTube yourself, and not cursing at strangers. Stay classy my friend.
I daily play against them at 7*/gear 11 battling for the number 1 spot at my payout.
just curious, does your arm ever get sore from patting yourself on the back so much? is there a single post that you contribute to these forums that doesn't involve some self-congratulatory spiel about how easy everything is or how you're no. 1 at your payout?
There was explicitly a comment made that said nobody who plays against them would defend them. So it was relevant. One thing I don't do is personally attack people I disagree with. That's the fallback position of someone with no valid argument.
dude, your fake high-road **** is almost as overtly wack as your ridiculous hyperbolic statements like -- "can be very easily beaten by a number of teams" -- really? ok, hotshot, first define "easily beaten" (win ratio/how long the battle took) then provide us with some footage of said victories. you have the floor.
Try searching YouTube yourself, and not cursing at strangers. Stay classy my friend.
so basically, you're full of it as u can only refer me to what someone else has accomplished--pretty much what i expected... u can't even provide anecdotal evidence to back up ur claim.
By themselves, they're cannon fodder. They need to be together to have the synergy to make them great. Sorta like wiggs. And droids. And zaul.
Okay, first, let me say two things:
1) As a general rule, I am opposed to nerfs of any kind. I think they unfairly punish paying customers - and those that "paid" with time and gear.
2) I have no dog in this fight. I can beat Chaze teams and finish #1 arena if I am available around my payout time (that's a different discussion)
Those two things said, I DO think Chaze need to be "balanced". Anyone suggesting that they are not OP to some degree either hasn't played against/with 7* versions at max gear or is simply trying to defend their team. When paired together they do almost everything that they do better than any other character that does them. A tank with an AoE debuff that also calls a strong attacker to assist. An attacker that not only hits like a truck but cleanses and heals - and calls the tank to assist. Both of their basics also have abilities attached to them. Oh, and they both counter most of the time - with those basics.
Now, the above would be a sufficient reason to take a close look at them for rebalancing - but the things that makes it almost a no-brainer are:
1) They can function on virtually any team (unlike Droids or Zaul or even Wiggs - who generally need Wedge in the lead to maximize their effectiveness).
2) They have no direct counter.
3) They are labelled as Rebels - already one of the strongest factions in the game.
@Nikoms565 exactly my point. Together, which I mentioned, they are fantastic. The synergy they have with just two of them makes them plug and play in ANY squad, as you mentioned. You add any combo of boba, zylo, nihilus, rex, GK, etc. etc, super tough team to beat. And yes, most of my top ten has Chaze in their squad from 4* maxed to 7* maxed.
My response to the "nerf Chaze" thing, was based on the fact that alone - according to MY experience from battling them on a daily basis - they get crushed. They need to be together in or to be excellent.
Which is why I mentioned would disagree that they need a nerf. If they were rediculously over powered alone, then the conversation would have merit. I too am generally against Nerfs. There has always been a work around to meta teams, regardless of how stron they are.
My previous examples of zaul, wiggs, droids were only to illustrate that those are factions where the sum is greater than its parts. Together, they are very strong.
Basically brother, we're on the same page.
I'll just add this to your response to @Nikoms565.
I don't even have Chirrut unlocked. Or maybe I do, but at minimal stars.
But somehow "magically" , I've stayed within range of #1 without a crystal refresh on a daily basis. I say magically, because no nerfers believe me anyway as they persist with the idea that chaze needs a nerf, so I must have an innate ability nerfers do not in swgoh. I must be the "David Blaine" of swgoh. No wonder some here need a nerf, they just can't keep up otherwise!
what an ugly thing to say... does this mean we're not friends anymore?
I daily play against them at 7*/gear 11 battling for the number 1 spot at my payout.
just curious, does your arm ever get sore from patting yourself on the back so much? is there a single post that you contribute to these forums that doesn't involve some self-congratulatory spiel about how easy everything is or how you're no. 1 at your payout?
There was explicitly a comment made that said nobody who plays against them would defend them. So it was relevant. One thing I don't do is personally attack people I disagree with. That's the fallback position of someone with no valid argument.
dude, your fake high-road **** is almost as overtly wack as your ridiculous hyperbolic statements like -- "can be very easily beaten by a number of teams" -- really? ok, hotshot, first define "easily beaten" (win ratio/how long the battle took) then provide us with some footage of said victories. you have the floor.
Try searching YouTube yourself, and not cursing at strangers. Stay classy my friend.
I daily play against them at 7*/gear 11 battling for the number 1 spot at my payout.
just curious, does your arm ever get sore from patting yourself on the back so much? is there a single post that you contribute to these forums that doesn't involve some self-congratulatory spiel about how easy everything is or how you're no. 1 at your payout?
There was explicitly a comment made that said nobody who plays against them would defend them. So it was relevant. One thing I don't do is personally attack people I disagree with. That's the fallback position of someone with no valid argument.
dude, your fake high-road **** is almost as overtly wack as your ridiculous hyperbolic statements like -- "can be very easily beaten by a number of teams" -- really? ok, hotshot, first define "easily beaten" (win ratio/how long the battle took) then provide us with some footage of said victories. you have the floor.
Try searching YouTube yourself, and not cursing at strangers. Stay classy my friend.
so basically, you're full of it as u can only refer me to what someone else has accomplished--pretty much what i expected... u can't even provide anecdotal evidence to back up ur claim.
What about mythical evidence. I heard a legend once about a character who's damage was amplified by the buffs of his opponents.
A viscious circle where everyone moves to Chaze to gain the same advantages is the result. Until there is a reliable team that can hold versus Chaze on defense - a real counter - the chazificaion of arena will only continue.
Sith teams hold better at top tier in my experience. Rex+Chaze teams drop like any other teams into the top20-30 so on, on a Dec 2015 arena shard.
@ImYourHuckleberry im in the same boat. They're both unlocked but super low gear (I think churrit is lvl 1, 0 gear haha!)
But yes, I dont "need" them to compete. If anything, switching gears, nihilus is the one who can prevent me falling off the cliff.
Finished 4th yesterday; im at 40-ish right now. The climb is getting tiresome.
Having said that, a Chaze would be awfully sweet to have and might prevent the tumble. Lots O' chaze, nihilus,GK rex and zaul teams in my top 15.
There are some Zader teams I ran that never dropped below a refresh in arena to regain 1st on a rex/chaze/gk/nihilus heavy shard. I also believe R2 will open even more combinations that'll be just as good against those rex(L) teams. Just the community needs time to figure it out.
what an ugly thing to say... does this mean we're not friends anymore?
What about mythical evidence. I heard a legend once about a character who's damage was amplified by the buffs of his opponents.
That was a terrible video, but made a point. Here is another personal full battle video vs. Rex +Chaze+ maxed out R2D2. No ZMaul, no Chaze required. You'll see I'm totally fooked at the start of the fight, but played the odds.
@ImYourHuckleberry im in the same boat. They're both unlocked but super low gear (I think churrit is lvl 1, 0 gear haha!)
But yes, I dont "need" them to compete. If anything, switching gears, nihilus is the one who can prevent me falling off the cliff.
Finished 4th yesterday; im at 40-ish right now. The climb is getting tiresome.
Having said that, a Chaze would be awfully sweet to have and might prevent the tumble. Lots O' chaze, nihilus,GK rex and zaul teams in my top 15.
There are some Zader teams I ran that never dropped below a refresh in arena to regain 1st on a rex/chaze/gk/nihilus heavy shard. I also believe R2 will open even more combinations that'll be just as good against those rex(L) teams. Just the community needs time to figure it out.
Agreed. Zader is really good against them (chaze), plus boba. R2 looks like a lot of fun especially in your vid. Can't wait to try him out when he's ready.
Baze and Chirrut are still pretty tough and I think if I didn't have a strong Nihilus in my squad I would probably still avoid those teams. It makes me wonder if Nihilus was only released as a Chaze counter, and that would be classic power-creep, wouldn't it? To have a nearly invincible pair of characters and release a cheezy instakill character to beat them.
And what comes next? What god-like abilities will forthcoming characters have to make Chaze and Nihilus irrelevant?
I didn't want to jump on the Chaze bandwagon but I've maxed them both now. It looks like they will be a viable option and the backbone of many squads for some time to come, so you are probably forced to get them. Maybe a nerf is justified for these guys, but there are also other characters like zSavage, zKylo, zBarriss (and zBarriss with GK) who just can't be killed at all if you don't have the right abilities and firepower, so they all limit which characters you can use to fight against them.
Not sure all these tanky characters who heal when they're hit are really healthy for the game. I wonder if CG is thinking ahead when they design these ability sets.
How is it a lie? Even if there's more than 10 toons that counter them (and I contend that being able to beat them is not the same as countering them), thats still a small minority of characters in the game. They're almost impossible to beat if you aren't using zetas or characters outside that list. Prove me wrong.
That adds TFP, who is also very effective and wasn't in the other vids. That makes 19 now. What random threshold do I need to cross for this not to be considered too small a number?
If you are still having difficulties with this pairing (they lose plenty on defense believe me) then you've either built a team that shouldn't be fighting them (in which case you should probably build another team if they're "everywhere" on your shard) or you're out-modded. People that make comments about being "stuck at 200" because of team comps are really missing the reality of the situation. If you are that low it's because of your mods.
By themselves, they're cannon fodder. They need to be together to have the synergy to make them great. Sorta like wiggs. And droids. And zaul.
Okay, first, let me say two things:
1) As a general rule, I am opposed to nerfs of any kind. I think they unfairly punish paying customers - and those that "paid" with time and gear.
2) I have no dog in this fight. I can beat Chaze teams and finish #1 arena if I am available around my payout time (that's a different discussion)
Those two things said, I DO think Chaze need to be "balanced". Anyone suggesting that they are not OP to some degree either hasn't played against/with 7* versions at max gear or is simply trying to defend their team. When paired together they do almost everything that they do better than any other character that does them. A tank with an AoE debuff that also calls a strong attacker to assist. An attacker that not only hits like a truck but cleanses and heals - and calls the tank to assist. Both of their basics also have abilities attached to them. Oh, and they both counter most of the time - with those basics.
Now, the above would be a sufficient reason to take a close look at them for rebalancing - but the things that makes it almost a no-brainer are:
1) They can function on virtually any team (unlike Droids or Zaul or even Wiggs - who generally need Wedge in the lead to maximize their effectiveness).
2) They have no direct counter.
3) They are labelled as Rebels - already one of the strongest factions in the game.
They tried to make a direct counter. They just forgot to give Deathtrooper some good stats to go with his kit.
Alright, time for some cold hard truth to hit the people that are still whining about Chaze being OP. The simple fact of the matter is this. They aren't. The cleanse happens and then what? You just reapply the same Shock and ability block that was in them before and whoa, they can't do anything and have low damage. Shocker. Oh, what's this, they can't counter toons with stealth like Zaul teams and Nihilus and Boba Fett can one shot them. It's almost like the devs knew that they needed a viable option to deal with this combo so they reworked Boba to kill two birds with one stone. Oh and what about that bug that nobody talks about that does the same thing Boba does but also gains stealth so he can't be countered. Chaze has so many counters that without a team of cleansers to get rid of debuffs on Chirrut, there isn't anything OP about them. They don't deal OP free damage like Wiggs, FOTP, and Rey used to do, they are highly temperamental and are ruined by a simple ability block, and their utility is just average in everything. The cleanse on Chirrut is the most lethal part of that combo and even then it just set up Boba for the instakill through Baze's Taunt.
By themselves, they're cannon fodder. They need to be together to have the synergy to make them great. Sorta like wiggs. And droids. And zaul.
Okay, first, let me say two things:
1) As a general rule, I am opposed to nerfs of any kind. I think they unfairly punish paying customers - and those that "paid" with time and gear.
2) I have no dog in this fight. I can beat Chaze teams and finish #1 arena if I am available around my payout time (that's a different discussion)
Those two things said, I DO think Chaze need to be "balanced". Anyone suggesting that they are not OP to some degree either hasn't played against/with 7* versions at max gear or is simply trying to defend their team. When paired together they do almost everything that they do better than any other character that does them. A tank with an AoE debuff that also calls a strong attacker to assist. An attacker that not only hits like a truck but cleanses and heals - and calls the tank to assist. Both of their basics also have abilities attached to them. Oh, and they both counter most of the time - with those basics.
Now, the above would be a sufficient reason to take a close look at them for rebalancing - but the things that makes it almost a no-brainer are:
1) They can function on virtually any team (unlike Droids or Zaul or even Wiggs - who generally need Wedge in the lead to maximize their effectiveness).
2) They have no direct counter.
3) They are labelled as Rebels - already one of the strongest factions in the game.
They tried to make a direct counter. They just forgot to give Deathtrooper some good stats to go with his kit.
Which is why I have been farming and gearing Deathtrooper.
In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie
In game guild: TNR Uprising I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
I didn't bother with them for quite some time as I was building my sith/empire teams but now I'm farming them. Might as well since R2 is here and there are a lot of good combos to consider with Chaze a centerpiece of them.
And yes, they are annoying. Not unbeatable but definitely a lot of effort is required in many cases.
By themselves, they're cannon fodder. They need to be together to have the synergy to make them great. Sorta like wiggs. And droids. And zaul.
Okay, first, let me say two things:
1) As a general rule, I am opposed to nerfs of any kind. I think they unfairly punish paying customers - and those that "paid" with time and gear.
2) I have no dog in this fight. I can beat Chaze teams and finish #1 arena if I am available around my payout time (that's a different discussion)
Those two things said, I DO think Chaze need to be "balanced". Anyone suggesting that they are not OP to some degree either hasn't played against/with 7* versions at max gear or is simply trying to defend their team. When paired together they do almost everything that they do better than any other character that does them. A tank with an AoE debuff that also calls a strong attacker to assist. An attacker that not only hits like a truck but cleanses and heals - and calls the tank to assist. Both of their basics also have abilities attached to them. Oh, and they both counter most of the time - with those basics.
Now, the above would be a sufficient reason to take a close look at them for rebalancing - but the things that makes it almost a no-brainer are:
1) They can function on virtually any team (unlike Droids or Zaul or even Wiggs - who generally need Wedge in the lead to maximize their effectiveness).
2) They have no direct counter.
3) They are labelled as Rebels - already one of the strongest factions in the game.
They tried to make a direct counter. They just forgot to give Deathtrooper some good stats to go with his kit.
I would also add that you can say the first two things about Nihilus (who has roughly double the usage of Baze or Chirrut on the Meta report), but everyone got him for free so we don't see 80 different nerf threads around...
As for the rebels argument, Rebels are only still relevant because of R1 and Chaze (and now R2). When was the last time you saw Wiggs near the top of a mature server? Nerf Chaze utility and you wind up with yet another faction with loads of important characters that can't compete.
Buff block is not an effective counter since Chirrut is rarely the only cleanser on the team.
Chirrut should have his cleanse ability removed alltogether, that way people that want to run double/triple cleanse teams have to give up somthing. Would he still not be the best attacker/healer in game? Yes he would.
Buff block is not an effective counter since Chirrut is rarely the only cleanser on the team.
Chirrut should have his cleanse ability removed alltogether, that way people that want to run double/triple cleanse teams have to give up somthing. Would he still not be the best attacker/healer in game? Yes he would.
So you think a special ability that only equalizes health and doesn't cleanse (and therefore doesn't HoT) would be the best in the game.
An interesting position. Gotta say I pretty wholeheartedly disagree...
I'll add this. Thrawn with a unique like this would be cool:
Unique: Study Their Tactics (Zeta) - When an enemy gains a buff, every member of your team gains that buff.
Best thing here. I like the idea, and it fits with the lore pretty well.
As far as the "Chaze OP" discussion goes, I'm gonna kinda just sit on the fence. As a general rule, it'd be bad to nerf toons because you open the floodgates for a lot more balance fixes. Not that this is a terrible thing, some games make it work fine, but in a f2p p2w game (which this certainly is) you run the risk of upsetting the players that pay, from small spender to huge whale.
Chaze are strong because one of them has decent damage, they have a lot of tools in their kit, and they are extremely strong together. There are plenty of hard counters, and plenty of ways to deal with them that aren't direct counters though. I think the real problem here is that people think that they should just be able to pick a faction or a team and beat any other team with it, and that's just not the case. I still run into some Wiggs rebels in my GW and when my 2nd or 3rd GW team loses a person instantly in the battle, my first reaction is "****! how did that happen when I slightly overpower them?" Of course, if I continue to play I wind up with 3 toons to their 0. Its a pain in the butt in GW, but its not really unbalanced.
Also as stated they are now completely F2P farmable; if you think they're that OP then just farm and play them until the meta shifts away from them.
Last little note: I saw somebody mention win rate AND length of arena battles. The two are a little irrelevant to each other. Just because a team takes time to beat doesn't mean you didn't beat them, so I don't see how the length of an arena battle matters unless the combo is strictly there to time you out. Not a bad idea if you think about it; go high attack and climb up, then put a super strong defense combo in to hold for you.
Keep the heal over time, just don't remove the debuffs.
1: The HoT's come from the cleanse.
2: Even if you just added an equivalent number of HoT's to current debuffs it still largely negates the heal. Chirrut's HoT's have the lowest percentage value in the game. Even simple DoT debuffs would effectively cancel them out, to say nothing of buff immunity, shock, and heal immunity...
Your statement that without the cleanse he would still be the best is just objectively false.
Replies
I daily play against them at 7*/gear 11 battling for the number 1 spot at my payout. So I do face them, and I don't use them. I don't even have them. I have no reason to defend them for personal benefit. To your points I'd say:
1) Lots of toons function great on any team individually without the need of a specific other toon. These 2 really need eachother. Chirrut more so. You mentioned Wiggs who absolutely can go into lots of teams as the DPS without Wedge lead.
2) There are tons of direct counters. I used to destroy them with STHan in the previous meta. A counter attack that does little damage fed me TM until Baze was dead and almost nobody on his team had moved yet. Stormtrooper has been reworked to have a similar effect. Zader with an AoE dispeller also ruins their day. Multiple toons do amplified amounts of damage to toons with lots of buffs. We just need more options for counters in more factions. And that's what will happen. Faction passes are the plan moving forward.
3) Sith are the strongest faction. Rebels are one of the largest. But there are still very bad Rebel toons whereas every single Sith in the game is arena viable in some team comp. And just because a faction is big or strong doesn't mean a toon in it should be nerfed. In fact if for instance Bounty Hunters get a faction pass, and you then have a legit support squad to run with Boba (who already counters Chaze to death single handedly) then it would reduce the nerf talk.
So are they on a higher level than lots of toons? Yes. And they are very easily beaten multiple ways with a variety of toons.
The main problem (which the devs have stated explicitly) is that many of the original toons that came out with the game were underwhelming to begin with, and need to be updated to the new power level. Faction passes for bad teams/characters are coming. Nerfs aren't going to happen.
@Nikoms565 exactly my point. Together, which I mentioned, they are fantastic. The synergy they have with just two of them makes them plug and play in ANY squad, as you mentioned. You add any combo of boba, zylo, nihilus, rex, GK, etc. etc, super tough team to beat. And yes, most of my top ten has Chaze in their squad from 4* maxed to 7* maxed.
My response to the "nerf Chaze" thing, was based on the fact that alone - according to MY experience from battling them on a daily basis - they get crushed. They need to be together in or to be excellent.
Which is why I mentioned would disagree that they need a nerf. If they were rediculously over powered alone, then the conversation would have merit. I too am generally against Nerfs. There has always been a work around to meta teams, regardless of how stron they are.
My previous examples of zaul, wiggs, droids were only to illustrate that those are factions where the sum is greater than its parts. Together, they are very strong.
Basically brother, we're on the same page.
just curious, does your arm ever get sore from patting yourself on the back so much? is there a single post that you contribute to these forums that doesn't involve some self-congratulatory spiel about how easy everything is or how you're no. 1 at your payout?
"very easily beaten with a variety of toons" -- riiiiiiiiight.
This is why "they have counters" isn't a good barometer for balance. Whoever uses Chaze can beat other lineups without much of a fuss and will drop less than others using Chazeless lineups.
A viscious circle where everyone moves to Chaze to gain the same advantages is the result. Until there is a reliable team that can hold versus Chaze on defense - a real counter - the chazificaion of arena will only continue.
There was explicitly a comment made that said nobody who plays against them would defend them. So it was relevant. One thing I don't do is personally attack people I disagree with. That's the fallback position of someone with no valid argument.
dude, your fake high-road **** is almost as overtly wack as your ridiculous hyperbolic statements like -- "can be very easily beaten by a number of teams" -- really? ok, hotshot, first define "easily beaten" (win ratio/how long the battle took) then provide us with some footage of said victories. you have the floor.
Try searching YouTube yourself, and not cursing at strangers. Stay classy my friend.
so basically, you're full of it as u can only refer me to what someone else has accomplished--pretty much what i expected... u can't even provide anecdotal evidence to back up ur claim.
To the one who said farm them out of shipments, yea you don't "farm" anything out of shipments, you pay.
That all being said, the OP is saying nerf Chirrut an Baze because he can't beat them point blank.
In today's society is always easiest to just say that someone needs to fix it for me.
To the OP, here is a solution get yourself some Sith get some good mods an go fight. I was beating Chaze with Maul, Sid, B2,DN, and EP.
Some guy in my shard is combining Maul lead with Baze an Chirrut. Maybe someone should nerf him.
I'll just add this to your response to @Nikoms565.
I don't even have Chirrut unlocked. Or maybe I do, but at minimal stars.
But somehow "magically" , I've stayed within range of #1 without a crystal refresh on a daily basis. I say magically, because no nerfers believe me anyway as they persist with the idea that chaze needs a nerf, so I must have an innate ability nerfers do not in swgoh. I must be the "David Blaine" of swgoh. No wonder some here need a nerf, they just can't keep up otherwise!
What about mythical evidence. I heard a legend once about a character who's damage was amplified by the buffs of his opponents.
But yes, I dont "need" them to compete. If anything, switching gears, nihilus is the one who can prevent me falling off the cliff.
Finished 4th yesterday; im at 40-ish right now. The climb is getting tiresome.
Having said that, a Chaze would be awfully sweet to have and might prevent the tumble. Lots O' chaze, nihilus,GK rex and zaul teams in my top 15.
Sith teams hold better at top tier in my experience. Rex+Chaze teams drop like any other teams into the top20-30 so on, on a Dec 2015 arena shard.
There are some Zader teams I ran that never dropped below a refresh in arena to regain 1st on a rex/chaze/gk/nihilus heavy shard. I also believe R2 will open even more combinations that'll be just as good against those rex(L) teams. Just the community needs time to figure it out.
That was a terrible video, but made a point. Here is another personal full battle video vs. Rex +Chaze+ maxed out R2D2. No ZMaul, no Chaze required. You'll see I'm totally fooked at the start of the fight, but played the odds.
Edit: re-upload the video as it was only partial. Hopefully it will be up in a few minutes.
Agreed. Zader is really good against them (chaze), plus boba. R2 looks like a lot of fun especially in your vid. Can't wait to try him out when he's ready.
And what comes next? What god-like abilities will forthcoming characters have to make Chaze and Nihilus irrelevant?
I didn't want to jump on the Chaze bandwagon but I've maxed them both now. It looks like they will be a viable option and the backbone of many squads for some time to come, so you are probably forced to get them. Maybe a nerf is justified for these guys, but there are also other characters like zSavage, zKylo, zBarriss (and zBarriss with GK) who just can't be killed at all if you don't have the right abilities and firepower, so they all limit which characters you can use to fight against them.
Not sure all these tanky characters who heal when they're hit are really healthy for the game. I wonder if CG is thinking ahead when they design these ability sets.
Agreed, it truly is impressive.
A comment i made literally months ago in one of the many, many existing threads on this topic (seriously, search bar is your friend people).
The link to the aforementioned pg 15 https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/86020/so-chaze-is-just-going-to-be-ignored/p15
If you are still having difficulties with this pairing (they lose plenty on defense believe me) then you've either built a team that shouldn't be fighting them (in which case you should probably build another team if they're "everywhere" on your shard) or you're out-modded. People that make comments about being "stuck at 200" because of team comps are really missing the reality of the situation. If you are that low it's because of your mods.
Which is why I have been farming and gearing Deathtrooper.
In game guild: TNR Uprising
I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
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And yes, they are annoying. Not unbeatable but definitely a lot of effort is required in many cases.
I would also add that you can say the first two things about Nihilus (who has roughly double the usage of Baze or Chirrut on the Meta report), but everyone got him for free so we don't see 80 different nerf threads around...
As for the rebels argument, Rebels are only still relevant because of R1 and Chaze (and now R2). When was the last time you saw Wiggs near the top of a mature server? Nerf Chaze utility and you wind up with yet another faction with loads of important characters that can't compete.
Chirrut should have his cleanse ability removed alltogether, that way people that want to run double/triple cleanse teams have to give up somthing. Would he still not be the best attacker/healer in game? Yes he would.
So you think a special ability that only equalizes health and doesn't cleanse (and therefore doesn't HoT) would be the best in the game.
An interesting position. Gotta say I pretty wholeheartedly disagree...
Best thing here. I like the idea, and it fits with the lore pretty well.
As far as the "Chaze OP" discussion goes, I'm gonna kinda just sit on the fence. As a general rule, it'd be bad to nerf toons because you open the floodgates for a lot more balance fixes. Not that this is a terrible thing, some games make it work fine, but in a f2p p2w game (which this certainly is) you run the risk of upsetting the players that pay, from small spender to huge whale.
Chaze are strong because one of them has decent damage, they have a lot of tools in their kit, and they are extremely strong together. There are plenty of hard counters, and plenty of ways to deal with them that aren't direct counters though. I think the real problem here is that people think that they should just be able to pick a faction or a team and beat any other team with it, and that's just not the case. I still run into some Wiggs rebels in my GW and when my 2nd or 3rd GW team loses a person instantly in the battle, my first reaction is "****! how did that happen when I slightly overpower them?" Of course, if I continue to play I wind up with 3 toons to their 0. Its a pain in the butt in GW, but its not really unbalanced.
Also as stated they are now completely F2P farmable; if you think they're that OP then just farm and play them until the meta shifts away from them.
Last little note: I saw somebody mention win rate AND length of arena battles. The two are a little irrelevant to each other. Just because a team takes time to beat doesn't mean you didn't beat them, so I don't see how the length of an arena battle matters unless the combo is strictly there to time you out. Not a bad idea if you think about it; go high attack and climb up, then put a super strong defense combo in to hold for you.
1: The HoT's come from the cleanse.
2: Even if you just added an equivalent number of HoT's to current debuffs it still largely negates the heal. Chirrut's HoT's have the lowest percentage value in the game. Even simple DoT debuffs would effectively cancel them out, to say nothing of buff immunity, shock, and heal immunity...
Your statement that without the cleanse he would still be the best is just objectively false.