I 100% agree that he needs a nerf. It's annoying seeing Rex, a good guy/Light Side give turn meter and Tenacity up to Darth Vader, Tarkin, Dooku, etc. it should read "Jedi allies gain X amount of turn meter and Clone allies gain double." Or whatever. In no way should such synergy exist between Rex and anyone who isn't a Jedi, Clone or Rebel.
Well, that's an old issue - but I agree now with all the characters we have ideally he wouldn't spread love to anyone. They aren't really building leaders like that now.
Look at DN - he is just Sith. Would be nice to counter Rex if he also gave the no-crit skill to non-Sith and the health steal and O up from his leader were reduced for non-Sith....or better yet it would be nice if at least his leader applied to all dark side characters. Rex buffing everything with his leader gives him a big advantage over other focused leaders. Is it fair at a character level? Not really.
I 100% agree that he needs a nerf. It's annoying seeing Rex, a good guy/Light Side give turn meter and Tenacity up to Darth Vader, Tarkin, Dooku, etc. it should read "Jedi allies gain X amount of turn meter and Clone allies gain double." Or whatever. In no way should such synergy exist between Rex and anyone who isn't a Jedi, Clone or Rebel.
I like that we can put different characters who would never have been in the same side in the films on the same team. Having synergy only revolve around factions is kind of lame and boring in my opinion
I 100% agree that he needs a nerf. It's annoying seeing Rex, a good guy/Light Side give turn meter and Tenacity up to Darth Vader, Tarkin, Dooku, etc. it should read "Jedi allies gain X amount of turn meter and Clone allies gain double." Or whatever. In no way should such synergy exist between Rex and anyone who isn't a Jedi, Clone or Rebel.
Using that logic you should fix Boba, Phasma, Bariss and many other toons as well. Why just mention Rex when Boba can give CC and CD to Han Solo; Phasma can make Poe get an assist attack, and Bariss can give health and healing to Sidious. Dooku can make Yoda evade like crazy, and Old Ben can make Vader do the same. Why is Rex the only toon who cannot have this kind of 'neutral' synergy?
I 100% agree that he needs a nerf. It's annoying seeing Rex, a good guy/Light Side give turn meter and Tenacity up to Darth Vader, Tarkin, Dooku, etc. it should read "Jedi allies gain X amount of turn meter and Clone allies gain double." Or whatever. In no way should such synergy exist between Rex and anyone who isn't a Jedi, Clone or Rebel.
So in other words no leadership ability should work unless they are all of the same faction? Come on now man. It's Galaxy of heroes..meaning you can pick and choose what toons work best with what toons. Limiting leadership abilities to specific toons is what make so many toons on this game already useless.
What's really interesting about Rex is that prior to the current meta, he was the meta breaker. It's also been said that his kit allows other strong toons to strive without much synergy. Both of these things make him unique and have made the arena at least slightly more interesting for quite a while; the fact that he is the meta is probably just because he's broken every previous meta. He also, as stated, broke the speed mod meta.
Case in point he's a counter for all the power creep and until it creeps further he's here to stay. Nerf him and you'll likely see r1 with r2 and nihilus vs zaul with nihilus.
Oh btw your meta nerf thread forgot to mention that Darth Nihilus is in over 75% of arena teams...
No nerfs. Period. People invest into toons given their abilities. Nerfing is cheating and stealing from those who put money, effort, time and resources into them.
Rex is mostly just rough on teams that rely on critical hits. Same with GK and Zarris. Without him there would have been no counter to Zaul. DN, Zader and imperial troopers eat Rex for lunch. I'm glad he's around.
Lots of teams seem really op of you go up against them with the wrong team. Z-qgj lead Jedi for example. Use the right team against them and they fall apart and seem kind of weak.
No nerfs. Period. People invest into toons given their abilities. Nerfing is cheating and stealing from those who put money, effort, time and resources into them.
I am so tired of these nerf requests. EA's recent mild nerfs, like uniques not sticking after death seem pretty reasonable and not too game changing. I have never used STH as a major player in my arena squad, but that particular nerf seems like a bit of a bummer that it happened. No longer granting TM unless he's taunting. I'm against this one nerf, even though I don't use him in arena. He usually dies when he taunts. His taunt is easily dispelled. He can't usually get up another taunt and he deals so little damage. Seems unfair to cripple his one great passive ability.
I am so tired of these nerf requests. EA's recent mild nerfs, like uniques not sticking after death seem pretty reasonable and not too game changing. I have never used STH as a major player in my arena squad, but that particular nerf seems like a bit of a bummer that it happened. No longer granting TM unless he's taunting. I'm against this one nerf, even though I don't use him in arena. He usually dies when he taunts. His taunt is easily dispelled. He can't usually get up another taunt and he deals so little damage. Seems unfair to cripple his one great passive ability.
... none of the recent changes were nerfs. They were fixes. Nerfs are making the ability weaker than they were previously, not making them work in accordance with their design.
Maul uses Daze. So while everyone is saying Rex is a counter to maul, you basically argue that maul is a counter to Rex?
I'm not arguing at all... just contributing to the discussion the fact that Daze prevents TM gain. Characters that apply Daze would counter characters who rely on TM gain. I only know this because I use K-2SO a lot, no really into Maul.
Some of you may know that I am against nerfs of any kind. I don't believe nerfs should ever be considered, primarily because of the amount of investment required in each toon we play, whether it is time, gear, credits, or even crystals. An investor needs certainty in their investment, and avoiding rule changes after an investment is only fair to the gamer. In addition, nerf requests usually originate from a gamers' lack of ability to adapt to evolving game styles, or lack of ability to win against certain toons and squads.
So it may come as a surprise to you, (I know it comes as a surprise to me), I am now convinced that Rex needs a nerf, whether a direct nerf or a new skill to counter his tm manipulation. His tm manipulation is unhealthy for the game. And there you have it - my reason for this nerf request - I'm being altruistic, and want to improve the health of the game for the good of all gamers.
But why should Rex be nerfed?
Look at this.
Impeding shot - 25% tm reduction against target.
Squad Discipline - non clone allies gain 30% tm, and 5% tm for every negative status effect dispelled. (doubled for clones)
Brother in Arms non clone allies gain 7.5% tm on opponents critical hit, (double for clones)
No toon should have this kind of an op kit, a kit which is destroying turn order in a massive way and invalidating the power of mods and speed so that they are irrelevant against Rex. Already the Rex usage as a leader is tops in meta, as gamers have figured out a new way to dominate the boards without investing in mods. Since Rex is now an easy farm, Rex usage will only increase from here, further eroding the game.
But why nerf Rex? Simple, his massively op tm manipulation has no counter. And that's it. Without a direct counter to such an op kit, the game is healthy.
But Rex is beatable... Let's be honest here. Just because Rex is beatable doesn't mean he is not op, all toons, are beatable, which I've proven 1st hand as there isn't a squad out there I can't beat. Nevertheless, rex is clearly out of balance and needs a nerf. 40% of gamers on swgoh.gg using Rex as a lead further illustrates how out of balanced Rex is.
If you could change Rex's leader ability what would you change it to?
How can a toon that's been around over a year need a nerf? He has a great kit and good for all aspects of the game. But nerf is when something is truth OP. If anything I would like to see more toons like Rex that are viable in more than 1 format.
... Lots of teams seem really op of you go up against them with the wrong team. Z-qgj lead Jedi for example. Use the right team against them and they fall apart and seem kind of weak.
Again, maybe you can reread my OP, as I stated I have no problem beating Rex, or any other comp, with numerous squads I can field. I know you didn't come right out and state that, but it was kinda alluded to in your response.
what an ugly thing to say... does this mean we're not friends anymore?
Why complain now?
He hasn't received a buff, and has been out for over a year. It's like a char nerf necro thread like when people make "nerf wiggs" still.
Some of you may know that I am against nerfs of any kind. I don't believe nerfs should ever be considered, primarily because of the amount of investment required in each toon we play, whether it is time, gear, credits, or even crystals. An investor needs certainty in their investment, and avoiding rule changes after an investment is only fair to the gamer. In addition, nerf requests usually originate from a gamers' lack of ability to adapt to evolving game styles, or lack of ability to win against certain toons and squads.
So it may come as a surprise to you, (I know it comes as a surprise to me), I am now convinced that Rex needs a nerf, whether a direct nerf or a new skill to counter his tm manipulation. His tm manipulation is unhealthy for the game. And there you have it - my reason for this nerf request - I'm being altruistic, and want to improve the health of the game for the good of all gamers.
But why should Rex be nerfed?
Look at this.
Impeding shot - 25% tm reduction against target.
Squad Discipline - non clone allies gain 30% tm, and 5% tm for every negative status effect dispelled. (doubled for clones)
Brother in Arms non clone allies gain 7.5% tm on opponents critical hit, (double for clones)
No toon should have this kind of an op kit, a kit which is destroying turn order in a massive way and invalidating the power of mods and speed so that they are irrelevant against Rex. Already the Rex usage as a leader is tops in meta, as gamers have figured out a new way to dominate the boards without investing in mods. Since Rex is now an easy farm, Rex usage will only increase from here, further eroding the game.
But why nerf Rex? Simple, his massively op tm manipulation has no counter. And that's it. Without a direct counter to such an op kit, the game is healthy.
But Rex is beatable... Let's be honest here. Just because Rex is beatable doesn't mean he is not op, all toons, are beatable, which I've proven 1st hand as there isn't a squad out there I can't beat. Nevertheless, rex is clearly out of balance and needs a nerf. 40% of gamers on swgoh.gg using Rex as a lead further illustrates how out of balanced Rex is.
If you could change Rex's leader ability what would you change it to?
That's a great question. I haven't given it much thought. But some have mentioned some ideas here. Personally, I think a toon like b2, that somehow directly and passively counters tm gains.
what an ugly thing to say... does this mean we're not friends anymore?
One additional: he is crazy squishy. Easily a one shot target. Any slight adjustment would make him entirely useless.
I hear you. I definitely don't want to see Rex destroyed as a toon. We need more toons that have great kits. But I'm against Rex because he basically nerfs mods/speed. In the end, it is a balancing concern that penalizes great mods.
what an ugly thing to say... does this mean we're not friends anymore?
One additional: he is crazy squishy. Easily a one shot target. Any slight adjustment would make him entirely useless.
I hear you. I definitely don't want to see Rex destroyed as a toon. We need more toons that have great kits. But I'm against Rex because he basically nerfs mods/speed. In the end, it is a balancing concern that penalizes great mods.
Isn't that a good thing though? Without him isn't this really what the arena is? How many tm-gaining high-speed secondary toons with synergy do you have?
One additional: he is crazy squishy. Easily a one shot target. Any slight adjustment would make him entirely useless.
I hear you. I definitely don't want to see Rex destroyed as a toon. We need more toons that have great kits. But I'm against Rex because he basically nerfs mods/speed. In the end, it is a balancing concern that penalizes great mods.
I disagree. Rex doesn't penalize people for speed, he penalizes them for critical hits. Rex doesn't care how fast you go.
One additional: he is crazy squishy. Easily a one shot target. Any slight adjustment would make him entirely useless.
I hear you. I definitely don't want to see Rex destroyed as a toon. We need more toons that have great kits. But I'm against Rex because he basically nerfs mods/speed. In the end, it is a balancing concern that penalizes great mods.
I disagree. Rex doesn't penalize people for speed, he penalizes them for critical hits. Rex doesn't care how fast you go.
He doesn't penalize speed, but he has turn meter manipulation on everything but his 3rd special. He is, undoubtedly, a master at tm and this is largely what makes him strong. It's not that he punishes speed, but rather beats it...
The OP also did say release a counter option - that's ideal to me and I agree. DM isn't a counter at all anymore because of non-stop cleanse. You need some other way to get around the TM gain. DN lead is a solid example, but need more options than just having one leader that only impacts 8 other characters.
One additional: he is crazy squishy. Easily a one shot target. Any slight adjustment would make him entirely useless.
I hear you. I definitely don't want to see Rex destroyed as a toon. We need more toons that have great kits. But I'm against Rex because he basically nerfs mods/speed. In the end, it is a balancing concern that penalizes great mods.
What is bad about a counter to speed? Do you want insane tfp and SA speed all over arena instead?
One additional: he is crazy squishy. Easily a one shot target. Any slight adjustment would make him entirely useless.
I hear you. I definitely don't want to see Rex destroyed as a toon. We need more toons that have great kits. But I'm against Rex because he basically nerfs mods/speed. In the end, it is a balancing concern that penalizes great mods.
I disagree. Rex doesn't penalize people for speed, he penalizes them for critical hits. Rex doesn't care how fast you go.
Rex is way more effective vs faster teams than vs slower teams. If the entire enemy team is faster than you are, a rex lead potentially lets you take 5 turns in a row after the enemy only took 1 turn. The faster the enemy is, the faster you'll become due to the TM gain, negating the effect of his faster mods. If you're already faster rex has much less influence on the outcome of the battle.
so yea, rex cares about how fast you go.
One additional: he is crazy squishy. Easily a one shot target. Any slight adjustment would make him entirely useless.
I hear you. I definitely don't want to see Rex destroyed as a toon. We need more toons that have great kits. But I'm against Rex because he basically nerfs mods/speed. In the end, it is a balancing concern that penalizes great mods.
I disagree. Rex doesn't penalize people for speed, he penalizes them for critical hits. Rex doesn't care how fast you go.
Rex is way more effective vs faster teams than vs slower teams. If the entire enemy team is faster than you are, a rex lead potentially lets you take 5 turns in a row after the enemy only took 1 turn. The faster the enemy is, the faster you'll become due to the TM gain, negating the effect of his faster mods. If you're already faster rex has much less influence on the outcome of the battle.
so yea, rex cares about how fast you go.
But only if you crit...
So I still disagree, since it is only indirectly that he cares about how fast you go
Replies
Well, that's an old issue - but I agree now with all the characters we have ideally he wouldn't spread love to anyone. They aren't really building leaders like that now.
Look at DN - he is just Sith. Would be nice to counter Rex if he also gave the no-crit skill to non-Sith and the health steal and O up from his leader were reduced for non-Sith....or better yet it would be nice if at least his leader applied to all dark side characters. Rex buffing everything with his leader gives him a big advantage over other focused leaders. Is it fair at a character level? Not really.
I like that we can put different characters who would never have been in the same side in the films on the same team. Having synergy only revolve around factions is kind of lame and boring in my opinion
Using that logic you should fix Boba, Phasma, Bariss and many other toons as well. Why just mention Rex when Boba can give CC and CD to Han Solo; Phasma can make Poe get an assist attack, and Bariss can give health and healing to Sidious. Dooku can make Yoda evade like crazy, and Old Ben can make Vader do the same. Why is Rex the only toon who cannot have this kind of 'neutral' synergy?
So in other words no leadership ability should work unless they are all of the same faction? Come on now man. It's Galaxy of heroes..meaning you can pick and choose what toons work best with what toons. Limiting leadership abilities to specific toons is what make so many toons on this game already useless.
Case in point he's a counter for all the power creep and until it creeps further he's here to stay. Nerf him and you'll likely see r1 with r2 and nihilus vs zaul with nihilus.
Oh btw your meta nerf thread forgot to mention that Darth Nihilus is in over 75% of arena teams...
And complain of a non-rex user.
No nerfs. Period. People invest into toons given their abilities. Nerfing is cheating and stealing from those who put money, effort, time and resources into them.
Lots of teams seem really op of you go up against them with the wrong team. Z-qgj lead Jedi for example. Use the right team against them and they fall apart and seem kind of weak.
... none of the recent changes were nerfs. They were fixes. Nerfs are making the ability weaker than they were previously, not making them work in accordance with their design.
I'm not arguing at all... just contributing to the discussion the fact that Daze prevents TM gain. Characters that apply Daze would counter characters who rely on TM gain. I only know this because I use K-2SO a lot, no really into Maul.
December 2016 Arena Shard
Nah, you misread my posts. I wish you could have understood the nuance I made, but.... O well.
If you could change Rex's leader ability what would you change it to?
Again, maybe you can reread my OP, as I stated I have no problem beating Rex, or any other comp, with numerous squads I can field. I know you didn't come right out and state that, but it was kinda alluded to in your response.
He hasn't received a buff, and has been out for over a year. It's like a char nerf necro thread like when people make "nerf wiggs" still.
That's a great question. I haven't given it much thought. But some have mentioned some ideas here. Personally, I think a toon like b2, that somehow directly and passively counters tm gains.
I hear you. I definitely don't want to see Rex destroyed as a toon. We need more toons that have great kits. But I'm against Rex because he basically nerfs mods/speed. In the end, it is a balancing concern that penalizes great mods.
I disagree. Rex doesn't penalize people for speed, he penalizes them for critical hits. Rex doesn't care how fast you go.
What is bad about a counter to speed? Do you want insane tfp and SA speed all over arena instead?
Rex is way more effective vs faster teams than vs slower teams. If the entire enemy team is faster than you are, a rex lead potentially lets you take 5 turns in a row after the enemy only took 1 turn. The faster the enemy is, the faster you'll become due to the TM gain, negating the effect of his faster mods. If you're already faster rex has much less influence on the outcome of the battle.
so yea, rex cares about how fast you go.
But only if you crit...
So I still disagree, since it is only indirectly that he cares about how fast you go