DN is not OP and is a needed balance against tenacity up and triple cleanse
DN isn't even close to be being the most difficult toon to control or deal with. The problem with changing drain force is two fold.
1.....without him (and one could argue possibly death trooper's similar irresistible cooldown increase) triple cleanse teams and tenacity up in general will not have a significant counter in this game. It would be like Zaul all over again.
2......whether it was consciously meant to be irresistible or not, his kit was calibrated (cooldown etc) with drain force being irresistible. Without recalibrating his Annihilate cooldown and/or percentage of chance to reduce cooldowns, he would be nerfed to such a tremendous degree..... He'd easily lose 60 percent of his viability.
The simplest approach would be just to add: this affect cannot be resisted to the the abilities description.
1.....without him (and one could argue possibly death trooper's similar irresistible cooldown increase) triple cleanse teams and tenacity up in general will not have a significant counter in this game. It would be like Zaul all over again.
2......whether it was consciously meant to be irresistible or not, his kit was calibrated (cooldown etc) with drain force being irresistible. Without recalibrating his Annihilate cooldown and/or percentage of chance to reduce cooldowns, he would be nerfed to such a tremendous degree..... He'd easily lose 60 percent of his viability.
The simplest approach would be just to add: this affect cannot be resisted to the the abilities description.
0
Replies
Massively OP.
Wedge Chaze GK R2 destroys triple cleanse.
Ha ha ha hahahahahahahahahahahahaha. So double cleanse is more your fancy?
Useage don't dictate a toon being OP
So Wedge and r2 must be more Op than DN and Rex then?
Actually triple cleanse also, if you zeta r2
Triple cleanse if R2 have zeta
The fixed payout times are the worst part of this game and makes it absolutely family-unfriendly.
So you're saying the counter to a triple cleanse team is......another triple cleanse team?
The complaint is about the mechanic itself, not Nihilus. Every time someone says something like: "But Darth Nihilus is fine" in response to people complaining about the cooldown increase mechanic having no resistance check, they are not actually responding to that person, they are ignoring their point.
Making the cooldown increase go through a resistance check will at most delay annihilate by 2 or 3 turns. If you're using Drain Force on someone with tenacity up, odds are 2-3 people will have cds increased. After it gets changed, you will have to wait one turn to use it so you can buff wipe. If it is a single target buff wipe, that person has 50% chance to have their cd increased. That works out to 2 or 3 turns. If you use an AoE buff wipe, it could make it so you still get your annihilate cooldown decreased by 5 Nihilus's 1st turn.
If those extra 2 or 3 turns to get to Annihilate are too much, maybe the cooldown on annihilate should be decreased accordingly. But either way, the mechanic itself is broken because there is NO WAY to defend against it. There is no other offensive mechanic in the game that has no defense.
Tarkin has the first irresistible AoE debuff. There was never one before that... but HIS can still be undone. This can not. This should not be irresistible because it can not be undone, period.
If people wish to address this issue, they really need to understand the difference between a mechanic and an ability because responding to complaints about a mechanic with examples of abilities is ignoring the conversation more than contributing to it.
I defend against DN just fine. Sometimes he gets one off. Sometimes he doesn't, but with the exception of terrible rng, the only time I lose to a team with DN, is when I'm terribly outmatched anyway as a team.
I have never seen it suggested once. All I have ever seen suggested is people requesting the cooldown increase mechanic be changed. Most people mistakenly misinterpret it as Drain Force being changed, I'll agree to that.
Yes, they are looking into the complaint about the cooldown increase mechanic having no resistance check, not Nihilus's balance (just like the looked into tm removal having no resistance check, not the Ewok's balance).
And they more than said they are looking into it. The first Dev response said they were going to look into it, the 2nd said it is slated for release in a future update. In other words, they have already decided that it needs a resistance check, but haven't gotten around to adding it yet.
I'm expecting it this week to push people towards Ahsoka.
Is the same thing. Also... DT cooldown increase works like that. Tenacity check means tenacity up would make drain force unusable in a lot of situations. Then we're talking no reduced cooldown. And no Annihilate at all most matches.
Its pretty obvious that when they designed his kit with a staggering 8 turn cooldown on Annihilate and only a 50 percent chance to reduce cooldowns on non debuffed toons, they were using the current dynamics: irresistible but can be deflected.
He's effectively the only non triple or double cleanse counter to a triple or double cleanse and tenacity up teams that I'm aware of. Without drain force being irresistible, Chaze /GK and company are the next Zaul.
Its a good balance that it can be deflected and only pets a 50 percent chance to increase cooldowns without a debuff. Making it resistible would make Boba the preferable toon to ability block again.
Foresight is an excellent counter to DN and with R2 Jedi have become highly viable in to arena again. Of course only very specific high end Jedi Jedi teams.
Right. We wondering the same thing. Ashoka is the next hot thing and she is gonna generate some revenue. She actually looks more Op than DN.
But as an attacker she's going to need stars to hit hard. Unlike Nihilus who just needed gear to keep him alive. Which means you're gonna need to buy packs to make her as good as you need her to be.
It's absolutely not the same thing. What we are talking about are two different things. The thing itself, and how it is implemented. The complaint is about the thing itself, but your arguments against the thing itself being changed revolve around how it is implemented.
The mechanic itself is broken, and no implementation of it should ever be irresistible since it can not be undone.
Darth Nihilus's ability can be dodged but ONLY because it also deals damage. The fact that it also deals damage further increases the need for this ability in particular to have a resistance check attached to it. The mechanic itself has no defense against it whatsoever, and that is broken. It needs to be fixed.
As I said before, I have no problem with them tweaking DN's abilities to maintain his effectiveness after they add the resistance check to CD increase, but CD increase needs that check to not be completely broken.
Ching ching..... Give us the money, honey!
How would you fix it, and rebalance the game for nihilus drain force?
I think there's really two issues at play here: the Tenacity/Potency battle, and cooldown increase. Tenacity up really shouldn't be: "block all debuffs", it should be "increase tenacity by 50%", but in order for that to be effective, they need to adjust the balance between tenacity and potency to 50-50, or 60-40 in favor of tenacity, or increase the amounts of tenacity stats on mods compared to potency. Tenacity Down is fine as it is.
Cooldown increase should absolutely go through a tenacity check. Adding that to the mechanic should result in lowering the cooldown for annihilate on Nihilus by 1 or 2 turns. This would make it operate much the same as it is now, but with a bit more variance in time depending on Comp. Pairing him with B2, Baze, etc., would actually make Annihilate pop up faster with the adjustment, and it shouldn't add more than 3 turns to the longest that you'd currently have to wait for it. Reducing the Annihilate cooldown by a turn or 2 would balance the length of time having a resistance check should add onto it.
Either way, I don't see something else being broken as a good reason to leave this broken as well.
The ultimate solution would be to fix both of these mechanics.
No, that's the fix that's going to (eventually) be coming through.