Good. Fix it now before a whole bunch of toons have the mechanic and it becomes a real problem to fix. Tenacity Down was irresistible, but was "balanced" by needing critical hits to land.
Cooldown Increase is "balanced" in the fact that it needs set circumstances to activate at a 100% chance. Deathtrooper's requires that the enemy be not buffed, which is harder to do when you think about the fact that DT's grenade is the AOE dispel for an empire team. Nihilus's requires that the target already be debuffed. This already requires more set up than tenacity down because crits are easier to manage than guaranteeing that your enemy is debuffed thanks to the sheer amount of cleansers and tenacity up.
If drain force has to go through tenacity check it should be changed to the following:
"Deal Special damage to all enemies and increase their cooldowns by 1. For each enemy damaged, reduce the cooldown of Annihilate by 1."
It may not currently go though the potency/tenacity check but it does go through an rng check, which tenacity up still helps with clearing debuffs in rex's case. It also cant hit through foresight.
However I do also think if they change it they should also reduce ann. to maybe 6 turn cooldown to start.
Personally I think he is fine as is. I think this game has bigger issues than DN
Exactly
People are complaining about a mechanic, not a character. The mechanic is already slated to be fixed because the mechanic itself is broken. Bringing up how the change in mechanic will affect a character is of secondary concern to making sure the mechanic itself is not broken.
Instead of trying to "save Nihilus from being nerfed" (put in quotations because that is not at all the case of what is happening), people should instead be coming up with ideas of how to keep him viable after the mechanic he partakes of is fixed. Becaise bringing him up in response to people's complaints about the mechanic is actually going off topic. Sure it's a related topic, but it's not actually the topic of the problem that is being looked at.
There are quite a few irresistible effects in the game. I still say they calibrated his kit as is. If any mechanic is broken it's tenacity up, which really means debuff immunity. I use it myself..... Rather like making many teams Irrelivant with it, and am fine with keeping it. But not without irresistible effects also being in the game.
The only debilitating mechanic that is irresistible in this game besides Cooldown Increase is Tenacity Down, and since all that does is improve the RNG of other debilitating effects, that's ok.
Irresistible abilities is an entirely different thing altogether from a mechanic that has no checks and directly harms a character in some fashion or another.
I completely agree that tenacity up is also broken, as is the whole potency:tenacity ratio. I don't think one broken mechanic is a good reason to leave another mechanic broken as well.
As I have stated before, Adjusting Nihilus's abilities to account for the fix is good, but whether or not he himself is OP and needs adjustment is not the complaint that is being levied, the complaint is about the cooldown increase mechanic. which exists outside of Nihilus himself. To talk about whether or nor Nihilus himself is balanced in the face of the complaint is to actually ignore the specifics of the complaint.
Only now do you say that you think Tenacity Up is broken. Yet you only suggest changing the one mechanic that really has a 50% chance success rate against the other broken mechanic.... As in, nerf the one that has less success to ensure the other one has total control... Because Tenacity Up has been Tenacity Up for a while. It's probably not going to change, so you're basically suggesting to stop any chance of truly being able to combat the "cleanse, cleanse, cleanse, tenacity up hahah no debuffs for, haha I have crit immunity thanks to GK so you can't land tenacity down, cleanse again, Oh you applied tenacity down.... Let me just reverse that to tenacity up "
I understand that you're defending the fact that you think it should be fixed. I simply just don't agree with you. Changing only the way that cooldown increase functions would not fix this game. It wouldn't come close. We need more abilities that can puncture the wall of tenacity up and cleansing to allow debuffing character actual room in arena matches. Debuff character require set up and strategy to use, cleanse spamming and tenacity up and raw damage from the likes of Wiggs doesn't actually really require any strategy. (Not complaining about Wiggs, they're just the epitome of all damage no strategy lol). Manipulating status effects is a large part of this game, and one of the parts that actually requires you to think. Changing what we have now to make it less effective gives more power to the tenacity up cleanse spam and almost negates the strategy involved in manipulating status effects on toons. This is supposedly a strategy game, let's at least try to keep that for the time being.
Leave DN as he is. It's not just Rex lead you need to worry about. If you faced a timeout team ( With GK Chaze Zbaris Z5's) you can't win without him in time. I have to switch him into my arena team to get past them. Anyway after the failure of the phantom team and everything in between R2 I think we should get ready for more OP toons and a powercreep as this is how they make money ( Remember Rey ???) she is nothing now and in a few months this conversation will also be irrelevant.
Good. Fix it now before a whole bunch of toons have the mechanic and it becomes a real problem to fix. Tenacity Down was irresistible, but was "balanced" by needing critical hits to land.
Cooldown Increase is "balanced" in the fact that it needs set circumstances to activate at a 100% chance. Deathtrooper's requires that the enemy be not buffed, which is harder to do when you think about the fact that DT's grenade is the AOE dispel for an empire team. Nihilus's requires that the target already be debuffed. This already requires more set up than tenacity down because crits are easier to manage than guaranteeing that your enemy is debuffed thanks to the sheer amount of cleansers and tenacity up.
If drain force has to go through tenacity check it should be changed to the following:
"Deal Special damage to all enemies and increase their cooldowns by 1. For each enemy damaged, reduce the cooldown of Annihilate by 1."
It may not currently go though the potency/tenacity check but it does go through an rng check, which tenacity up still helps with clearing debuffs in rex's case. It also cant hit through foresight.
However I do also think if they change it they should also reduce ann. to maybe 6 turn cooldown to start.
Personally I think he is fine as is. I think this game has bigger issues than DN
Exactly
People are complaining about a mechanic, not a character. The mechanic is already slated to be fixed because the mechanic itself is broken. Bringing up how the change in mechanic will affect a character is of secondary concern to making sure the mechanic itself is not broken.
Instead of trying to "save Nihilus from being nerfed" (put in quotations because that is not at all the case of what is happening), people should instead be coming up with ideas of how to keep him viable after the mechanic he partakes of is fixed. Becaise bringing him up in response to people's complaints about the mechanic is actually going off topic. Sure it's a related topic, but it's not actually the topic of the problem that is being looked at.
There are quite a few irresistible effects in the game. I still say they calibrated his kit as is. If any mechanic is broken it's tenacity up, which really means debuff immunity. I use it myself..... Rather like making many teams Irrelivant with it, and am fine with keeping it. But not without irresistible effects also being in the game.
The only debilitating mechanic that is irresistible in this game besides Cooldown Increase is Tenacity Down, and since all that does is improve the RNG of other debilitating effects, that's ok.
Irresistible abilities is an entirely different thing altogether from a mechanic that has no checks and directly harms a character in some fashion or another.
I completely agree that tenacity up is also broken, as is the whole potency:tenacity ratio. I don't think one broken mechanic is a good reason to leave another mechanic broken as well.
As I have stated before, Adjusting Nihilus's abilities to account for the fix is good, but whether or not he himself is OP and needs adjustment is not the complaint that is being levied, the complaint is about the cooldown increase mechanic. which exists outside of Nihilus himself. To talk about whether or nor Nihilus himself is balanced in the face of the complaint is to actually ignore the specifics of the complaint.
Only now do you say that you think Tenacity Up is broken. Yet you only suggest changing the one mechanic that really has a 50% chance success rate against the other broken mechanic.... As in, nerf the one that has less success to ensure the other one has total control... Because Tenacity Up has been Tenacity Up for a while. It's probably not going to change, so you're basically suggesting to stop any chance of truly being able to combat the "cleanse, cleanse, cleanse, tenacity up hahah no debuffs for, haha I have crit immunity thanks to GK so you can't land tenacity down, cleanse again, Oh you applied tenacity down.... Let me just reverse that to tenacity up "
I understand that you're defending the fact that you think it should be fixed. I simply just don't agree with you. Changing only the way that cooldown increase functions would not fix this game. It wouldn't come close. We need more abilities that can puncture the wall of tenacity up and cleansing to allow debuffing character actual room in arena matches. Debuff character require set up and strategy to use, cleanse spamming and tenacity up and raw damage from the likes of Wiggs doesn't actually really require any strategy. (Not complaining about Wiggs, they're just the epitome of all damage no strategy lol). Manipulating status effects is a large part of this game, and one of the parts that actually requires you to think. Changing what we have now to make it less effective gives more power to the tenacity up cleanse spam and almost negates the strategy involved in manipulating status effects on toons. This is supposedly a strategy game, let's at least try to keep that for the time being.
It's not only now that I say tenacity up is also broken. I've stated it in numerous threads across this forum. I have also pointed out an easy fix for the problem numerous times.
Tenacity Down needing Crits as part of the ability itself instead of the mechanic but now having no checks whatsoever with Krennic is exactly the point of why having the mechanic balanced by limitations on the ability instead of checks on the mechanic itself is no good. It is an example of why it is bad to not have checks on the mechanic itself, not an example of how Nihilus's ability is fine.
I am not defending the fact of why I think it should be fixed at all. I am explaining over and over to people why their complaints about the balance of Nihilus has nothing whatsoever to do with the problem of having an indefensible detrimental mechanic. It is already "slated to be released in a future update" so, I am explaining to people how their perceptions is skewed. I am not at all arguing for what I want. I am trying to open the eyes of people who don't see the necessity of the incoming fix.
Instead of continuing to post threads to "keep Nihilus from being nerfed" (which is not what's about to happen anyway), people should be continually posting about fixing tenacity/potency.
And, since you haven't seen my complaints about tenacity/potency in general, I will reiterate an easy way to balance it.
First of all, fix the ratio. Make it a 50/50 chance to land a debuff before potency and tenacity are stacked instead of an 85/15 ratio in favor of debuffs. Keep the 15% minimum resist. Doing this would actually make stacking both tenacity and potency valuable.
Turn Tenacity up into a 50% multiplicative effect like offense up is. This would make tenacity up easily penetrable by stacking potency. If the person also stacked tenacity however, it would require potency gains from buffs and abilities to still be able to be penetrated. It would make it so stacking potency was a necessity if your team relies on debuffs, or stacking tenacity was necessary if you really wanted to avoid them.
Tenacity Down should be left exactly as is however.
Finally they should introduce new temporary buffs that grant 100% resistance of the next debuff, and new temporary debuffs that make the next debuff irresistible.
Any way you look at it though, talking about how tenacity up is broken is not a good reason to leave cooldown increase as an also broken mechanic.
You can say tenacity will probably never be changed, but if there's enough outcry it probably will be. They have been really really good about identifying and correcting bugs over the last few months. I think they expanded their staff. The non-bug fixing that was going on last year is not the case this year.
If drain force has to go through tenacity check it should be changed to the following:
"Deal Special damage to all enemies and increase their cooldowns by 1. For each enemy damaged, reduce the cooldown of Annihilate by 1."
It may not currently go though the potency/tenacity check but it does go through an rng check, which tenacity up still helps with clearing debuffs in rex's case. It also cant hit through foresight.
However I do also think if they change it they should also reduce ann. to maybe 6 turn cooldown to start.
Personally I think he is fine as is. I think this game has bigger issues than DN
Exactly
People are complaining about a mechanic, not a character. The mechanic is already slated to be fixed because the mechanic itself is broken. Bringing up how the change in mechanic will affect a character is of secondary concern to making sure the mechanic itself is not broken.
Instead of trying to "save Nihilus from being nerfed" (put in quotations because that is not at all the case of what is happening), people should instead be coming up with ideas of how to keep him viable after the mechanic he partakes of is fixed. Becaise bringing him up in response to people's complaints about the mechanic is actually going off topic. Sure it's a related topic, but it's not actually the topic of the problem that is being looked at.
There are quite a few irresistible effects in the game. I still say they calibrated his kit as is. If any mechanic is broken it's tenacity up, which really means debuff immunity. I use it myself..... Rather like making many teams Irrelivant with it, and am fine with keeping it. But not without irresistible effects also being in the game.
The only debilitating mechanic that is irresistible in this game besides Cooldown Increase is Tenacity Down, and since all that does is improve the RNG of other debilitating effects, that's ok.
Irresistible abilities is an entirely different thing altogether from a mechanic that has no checks and directly harms a character in some fashion or another.
I completely agree that tenacity up is also broken, as is the whole potency:tenacity ratio. I don't think one broken mechanic is a good reason to leave another mechanic broken as well.
As I have stated before, Adjusting Nihilus's abilities to account for the fix is good, but whether or not he himself is OP and needs adjustment is not the complaint that is being levied, the complaint is about the cooldown increase mechanic. which exists outside of Nihilus himself. To talk about whether or nor Nihilus himself is balanced in the face of the complaint is to actually ignore the specifics of the complaint.
You have to balance tenacity/potency and then you can fix cd increase mechanic
If drain force has to go through tenacity check it should be changed to the following:
"Deal Special damage to all enemies and increase their cooldowns by 1. For each enemy damaged, reduce the cooldown of Annihilate by 1."
It may not currently go though the potency/tenacity check but it does go through an rng check, which tenacity up still helps with clearing debuffs in rex's case. It also cant hit through foresight.
However I do also think if they change it they should also reduce ann. to maybe 6 turn cooldown to start.
Personally I think he is fine as is. I think this game has bigger issues than DN
Exactly
People are complaining about a mechanic, not a character. The mechanic is already slated to be fixed because the mechanic itself is broken. Bringing up how the change in mechanic will affect a character is of secondary concern to making sure the mechanic itself is not broken.
Instead of trying to "save Nihilus from being nerfed" (put in quotations because that is not at all the case of what is happening), people should instead be coming up with ideas of how to keep him viable after the mechanic he partakes of is fixed. Becaise bringing him up in response to people's complaints about the mechanic is actually going off topic. Sure it's a related topic, but it's not actually the topic of the problem that is being looked at.
There are quite a few irresistible effects in the game. I still say they calibrated his kit as is. If any mechanic is broken it's tenacity up, which really means debuff immunity. I use it myself..... Rather like making many teams Irrelivant with it, and am fine with keeping it. But not without irresistible effects also being in the game.
The only debilitating mechanic that is irresistible in this game besides Cooldown Increase is Tenacity Down, and since all that does is improve the RNG of other debilitating effects, that's ok.
Irresistible abilities is an entirely different thing altogether from a mechanic that has no checks and directly harms a character in some fashion or another.
I completely agree that tenacity up is also broken, as is the whole potency:tenacity ratio. I don't think one broken mechanic is a good reason to leave another mechanic broken as well.
As I have stated before, Adjusting Nihilus's abilities to account for the fix is good, but whether or not he himself is OP and needs adjustment is not the complaint that is being levied, the complaint is about the cooldown increase mechanic. which exists outside of Nihilus himself. To talk about whether or nor Nihilus himself is balanced in the face of the complaint is to actually ignore the specifics of the complaint.
You have to balance tenacity/potency and then you can fix cd increase mechanic
Well that's probably not going to happen unfortunately. Cool down increase is already in the works for a fix. They haven't said anything about fixing tenacity/potency yet.
It depends on how Chaze is starred and modded, and who they're run under. There's someone on my shard I regularly battle who runs them with DN and Boba under a Rex lead and they're beatable nine times out of ten. But personally, I wouldn't bother fighting most squads with the duo under Rex, whether or not they're accompanied by DN.
As for SiT, it's his taunt duration which gets me and I'm just not quick enough to shock him before he gains it. Chaze is largely RNG/mod dependant but I have never beaten a Sith squad with SiT in arena and by the time I've whittled his health pool, it's too late to get an ability block on DN before it's his turn to use drain force again or annihilate. Without a tank, Maul squads with DN are pretty easy (though bad RNG with evasion, Dooku's lightning and turn order after SiA's opening move have definitely gotten the better of me).
I consider myself lucky I manage to stay in the top 50 and make it to the top 20 for payout, and that luck is running out fast. I think I'll need ten battles tomorrow. Or maybe just pick a squad I enjoy fighting with and suck up the lower crystal payout.
Just throwing this out there for anyone who sees my previous victories against Chaze as proof they're balanced: they're seriously, seriously not balanced. At all.
It depends on how Chaze is starred and modded, and who they're run under. There's someone on my shard I regularly battle who runs them with DN and Boba under a Rex lead and they're beatable nine times out of ten. But personally, I wouldn't bother fighting most squads with the duo under Rex, whether or not they're accompanied by DN.
As for SiT, it's his taunt duration which gets me and I'm just not quick enough to shock him before he gains it. Chaze is largely RNG/mod dependant but I have never beaten a Sith squad with SiT in arena and by the time I've whittled his health pool, it's too late to get an ability block on DN before it's his turn to use drain force again or annihilate. Without a tank, Maul squads with DN are pretty easy (though bad RNG with evasion, Dooku's lightning and turn order after SiA's opening move have definitely gotten the better of me).
I consider myself lucky I manage to stay in the top 50 and make it to the top 20 for payout, and that luck is running out fast. I think I'll need ten battles tomorrow. Or maybe just pick a squad I enjoy fighting with and suck up the lower crystal payout.
Just throwing this out there for anyone who sees my previous victories against Chaze as proof they're balanced: they're seriously, seriously not balanced. At all.
Have you tried using EP and DN? EP to shock SiT and DN's dispel or another dispeller. He's great because he dispels on his basic.
If drain force has to go through tenacity check it should be changed to the following:
"Deal Special damage to all enemies and increase their cooldowns by 1. For each enemy damaged, reduce the cooldown of Annihilate by 1."
It may not currently go though the potency/tenacity check but it does go through an rng check, which tenacity up still helps with clearing debuffs in rex's case. It also cant hit through foresight.
However I do also think if they change it they should also reduce ann. to maybe 6 turn cooldown to start.
Personally I think he is fine as is. I think this game has bigger issues than DN
Exactly
People are complaining about a mechanic, not a character. The mechanic is already slated to be fixed because the mechanic itself is broken. Bringing up how the change in mechanic will affect a character is of secondary concern to making sure the mechanic itself is not broken.
Instead of trying to "save Nihilus from being nerfed" (put in quotations because that is not at all the case of what is happening), people should instead be coming up with ideas of how to keep him viable after the mechanic he partakes of is fixed. Becaise bringing him up in response to people's complaints about the mechanic is actually going off topic. Sure it's a related topic, but it's not actually the topic of the problem that is being looked at.
There are quite a few irresistible effects in the game. I still say they calibrated his kit as is. If any mechanic is broken it's tenacity up, which really means debuff immunity. I use it myself..... Rather like making many teams Irrelivant with it, and am fine with keeping it. But not without irresistible effects also being in the game.
The only debilitating mechanic that is irresistible in this game besides Cooldown Increase is Tenacity Down, and since all that does is improve the RNG of other debilitating effects, that's ok.
Irresistible abilities is an entirely different thing altogether from a mechanic that has no checks and directly harms a character in some fashion or another.
I completely agree that tenacity up is also broken, as is the whole potency:tenacity ratio. I don't think one broken mechanic is a good reason to leave another mechanic broken as well.
As I have stated before, Adjusting Nihilus's abilities to account for the fix is good, but whether or not he himself is OP and needs adjustment is not the complaint that is being levied, the complaint is about the cooldown increase mechanic. which exists outside of Nihilus himself. To talk about whether or nor Nihilus himself is balanced in the face of the complaint is to actually ignore the specifics of the complaint.
You have to balance tenacity/potency and then you can fix cd increase mechanic
Well that's probably not going to happen unfortunately. Cool down increase is already in the works for a fix. They haven't said anything about fixing tenacity/potency yet.
They have already announced that it IS WORKING AS INTENDED and WILL NOT be nerfed, The update is only a change in the moves description, so much for ol boy saying they will nerf it, when the devs flat out said they wont. Long live DN
Nihilus Resist Mechanics @CG_feltz916
I wanted to clarify this specific issue as there have been a couple of threads brought up regarding Nihilus and Cooldown Increase resistibility.
The current implementation of his Drain Force is working as intended per design intentions. It cannot be resisted. This is the same for other Characters and Ships that increase cooldowns as well. (Deathtrooper and Tie Reaper)
The issue is that we did not specify this in the ability description and will be updating the ability text to indicate this for all the affected units.
They have already announced that it IS WORKING AS INTENDED and WILL NOT be nerfed, The update is only a change in the moves description, so much for ol boy saying they will nerf it, when the devs flat out said they wont. Long live DN
Nihilus Resist Mechanics
I wanted to clarify this specific issue as there have been a couple of threads brought up regarding Nihilus and Cooldown Increase resistibility.
The current implementation of his Drain Force is working as intended per design intentions. It cannot be resisted. This is the same for other Characters and Ships that increase cooldowns as well. (Deathtrooper and Tie Reaper)
The issue is that we did not specify this in the ability description and will be updating the ability text to indicate this for all the affected units.
Meh. They said it was flagged as a bug and would be released in a future update. If they aren't changing it, then that's fine. But does a wording change sound like a bug fix to you?
They have already announced that it IS WORKING AS INTENDED and WILL NOT be nerfed, The update is only a change in the moves description, so much for ol boy saying they will nerf it, when the devs flat out said they wont. Long live DN
Nihilus Resist Mechanics
I wanted to clarify this specific issue as there have been a couple of threads brought up regarding Nihilus and Cooldown Increase resistibility.
The current implementation of his Drain Force is working as intended per design intentions. It cannot be resisted. This is the same for other Characters and Ships that increase cooldowns as well. (Deathtrooper and Tie Reaper)
The issue is that we did not specify this in the ability description and will be updating the ability text to indicate this for all the affected units.
Meh. They said it was flagged as a bug and would be released in a future update. If they aren't changing it, then that's fine. But does a wording change sound like a bug fix to you?
They have already announced that it IS WORKING AS INTENDED and WILL NOT be nerfed, The update is only a change in the moves description, so much for ol boy saying they will nerf it, when the devs flat out said they wont. Long live DN
Nihilus Resist Mechanics
I wanted to clarify this specific issue as there have been a couple of threads brought up regarding Nihilus and Cooldown Increase resistibility.
The current implementation of his Drain Force is working as intended per design intentions. It cannot be resisted. This is the same for other Characters and Ships that increase cooldowns as well. (Deathtrooper and Tie Reaper)
The issue is that we did not specify this in the ability description and will be updating the ability text to indicate this for all the affected units.
Meh. They said it was flagged as a bug and would be released in a future update. If they aren't changing it, then that's fine. But does a wording change sound like a bug fix to you?
Yeah, that was the first one. The second one said differently though. It was no longer "sent up for review" and "to see what we could see", it was "flagged as a bug" and "slated for release in a future update":
They decided to make evasion the universal debuff check. They decided that any negative status effect that doesn't go through a tenacity check will say irresistible from now on. All good things. I still don't think that changing the wording is a bug fix.
They have already announced that it IS WORKING AS INTENDED and WILL NOT be nerfed, The update is only a change in the moves description, so much for ol boy saying they will nerf it, when the devs flat out said they wont. Long live DN
Nihilus Resist Mechanics
I wanted to clarify this specific issue as there have been a couple of threads brought up regarding Nihilus and Cooldown Increase resistibility.
The current implementation of his Drain Force is working as intended per design intentions. It cannot be resisted. This is the same for other Characters and Ships that increase cooldowns as well. (Deathtrooper and Tie Reaper)
The issue is that we did not specify this in the ability description and will be updating the ability text to indicate this for all the affected units.
Meh. They said it was flagged as a bug and would be released in a future update. If they aren't changing it, then that's fine. But does a wording change sound like a bug fix to you?
Yeah, that was the first one. The second one said differently though. It was no longer "sent up for review" and "to see what we could see", it was "flagged as a bug" and "slated for release in a future update":
They decided to make evasion the universal debuff check. They decided that any negative status effect that doesn't go through a tenacity check will say irresistible from now on. All good things. I still don't think that changing the wording is a bug fix.
Turning bugs into features is a viable solution. Ask pretty much any programmer
Edit: Although in this case, I am pretty sure it was designed this way, hence not really a bug.
Have you tried using EP and DN? EP to shock SiT and DN's dispel or another dispeller. He's great because he dispels on his basic.
Interestingly, I've lately been luckier against Zaul teams with SiT. That said, I'm well aware I need to gear up DN and B2 pronto. Kylo gets my next Stun Gun, but I'm farming another which will likely be given to B2.
It's a wonder it's taken me this long to work on B2 with the aggro he could have saved me.
Edit: and the number of times I've prematurely ended an arena match against Chaze because of the constant counters and health restoration... utterly frustrating and NOT fun.
They have already announced that it IS WORKING AS INTENDED and WILL NOT be nerfed, The update is only a change in the moves description, so much for ol boy saying they will nerf it, when the devs flat out said they wont. Long live DN
Nihilus Resist Mechanics
I wanted to clarify this specific issue as there have been a couple of threads brought up regarding Nihilus and Cooldown Increase resistibility.
The current implementation of his Drain Force is working as intended per design intentions. It cannot be resisted. This is the same for other Characters and Ships that increase cooldowns as well. (Deathtrooper and Tie Reaper)
The issue is that we did not specify this in the ability description and will be updating the ability text to indicate this for all the affected units.
Meh. They said it was flagged as a bug and would be released in a future update. If they aren't changing it, then that's fine. But does a wording change sound like a bug fix to you?
Yeah, that was the first one. The second one said differently though. It was no longer "sent up for review" and "to see what we could see", it was "flagged as a bug" and "slated for release in a future update":
They decided to make evasion the universal debuff check. They decided that any negative status effect that doesn't go through a tenacity check will say irresistible from now on. All good things. I still don't think that changing the wording is a bug fix.
Turning bugs into features is a viable solution. Ask pretty much any programmer
Edit: Although in this case, I am pretty sure it was designed this way, hence not really a bug.
Solution, yes. Designed this way, yes. Bug fix? No.
The point I am making is that they used terminology that led to the conclusion it was going to be changed.
They have already announced that it IS WORKING AS INTENDED and WILL NOT be nerfed, The update is only a change in the moves description, so much for ol boy saying they will nerf it, when the devs flat out said they wont. Long live DN
Nihilus Resist Mechanics
I wanted to clarify this specific issue as there have been a couple of threads brought up regarding Nihilus and Cooldown Increase resistibility.
The current implementation of his Drain Force is working as intended per design intentions. It cannot be resisted. This is the same for other Characters and Ships that increase cooldowns as well. (Deathtrooper and Tie Reaper)
The issue is that we did not specify this in the ability description and will be updating the ability text to indicate this for all the affected units.
Meh. They said it was flagged as a bug and would be released in a future update. If they aren't changing it, then that's fine. But does a wording change sound like a bug fix to you?
Yeah, that was the first one. The second one said differently though. It was no longer "sent up for review" and "to see what we could see", it was "flagged as a bug" and "slated for release in a future update":
They decided to make evasion the universal debuff check. They decided that any negative status effect that doesn't go through a tenacity check will say irresistible from now on. All good things. I still don't think that changing the wording is a bug fix.
Turning bugs into features is a viable solution. Ask pretty much any programmer
Edit: Although in this case, I am pretty sure it was designed this way, hence not really a bug.
Solution, yes. Designed this way, yes. Bug fix? No.
The point I am making is that they used terminology that led to the conclusion it was going to be changed.
I sense disappointment. Yoh would have prefered a different solution?
I never thought DN was OP. It's cool that he can wipe out anyone with a single shot, sure, but it takes him some time to get there. The only truly OP toons in the game right how are Chaze.
I use Nihilius and Chaze. I think Nihilius is a tiny bit OPer than Chaze. Why? I tried to get #1 without Chaze or without Nihilius and Chaze is easier replaced than Nihilius.
why in the hell are u all kitten about CD increase?? to think for a second that reworking it to be resisted will do anything but empower the triple cleanse even more is kitten, this argument is between the trip[le cleanse users and the non TC users sad part is he is being used in 3/4 of the TC teams out there anyways
I sense disappointment. Yoh would have prefered a different solution?
You may sense disappointment, but it's about a misleading statement rather than any personal investment in whatever they are going to do.
There solution isn't bad. They are going to make sure all debuffs can be dodged instead of them all going through tenacity (unless otherwise stated). That's a viable solution to me. Nihilus's ability could always be dodged, but debuffs that weren't tied to damage only had a resist check before.
The mechanic isn't broken as it has to go through a defense check of some kind, so I am satisfied with that. Their solution wasn't anything specific to the cooldown increase mechanic, it was a general rule for detrimental mechanics going forward (though nothing has outright changed), which is A-OK.
They have already announced that it IS WORKING AS INTENDED and WILL NOT be nerfed, The update is only a change in the moves description, so much for ol boy saying they will nerf it, when the devs flat out said they wont. Long live DN
Nihilus Resist Mechanics
I wanted to clarify this specific issue as there have been a couple of threads brought up regarding Nihilus and Cooldown Increase resistibility.
The current implementation of his Drain Force is working as intended per design intentions. It cannot be resisted. This is the same for other Characters and Ships that increase cooldowns as well. (Deathtrooper and Tie Reaper)
The issue is that we did not specify this in the ability description and will be updating the ability text to indicate this for all the affected units.
Meh. They said it was flagged as a bug and would be released in a future update. If they aren't changing it, then that's fine. But does a wording change sound like a bug fix to you?
Yeah, that was the first one. The second one said differently though. It was no longer "sent up for review" and "to see what we could see", it was "flagged as a bug" and "slated for release in a future update":
They decided to make evasion the universal debuff check. They decided that any negative status effect that doesn't go through a tenacity check will say irresistible from now on. All good things. I still don't think that changing the wording is a bug fix.
Turning bugs into features is a viable solution. Ask pretty much any programmer
Edit: Although in this case, I am pretty sure it was designed this way, hence not really a bug.
Solution, yes. Designed this way, yes. Bug fix? No.
The point I am making is that they used terminology that led to the conclusion it was going to be changed.
The woman who does the pr on the forum is not actually in the programming department. The developers had said earlier that DN worked as intended which is why it was shocking and surprising that it sounded like they were possibly going to alter him. Maybe it was the wording...... Maybe just a point that needed clarification among the staff at ea....... But it would have been a character breaking change had it actually been adjusted.
He's currently also the character who is probably the strongest direct counter to chaze and Rex. That would have gone away with the suggested alteration.
I'm just really upset my farming efforts of Nihilus, Sith Trooper and Assassin have been thwarted by them disappearing from the shard shop. The update says the Phoenix group is in there only for a limited time, but I doubt Nihilus and others won't return.....
Replies
Only now do you say that you think Tenacity Up is broken. Yet you only suggest changing the one mechanic that really has a 50% chance success rate against the other broken mechanic.... As in, nerf the one that has less success to ensure the other one has total control... Because Tenacity Up has been Tenacity Up for a while. It's probably not going to change, so you're basically suggesting to stop any chance of truly being able to combat the "cleanse, cleanse, cleanse, tenacity up hahah no debuffs for, haha I have crit immunity thanks to GK so you can't land tenacity down, cleanse again, Oh you applied tenacity down.... Let me just reverse that to tenacity up "
I understand that you're defending the fact that you think it should be fixed. I simply just don't agree with you. Changing only the way that cooldown increase functions would not fix this game. It wouldn't come close. We need more abilities that can puncture the wall of tenacity up and cleansing to allow debuffing character actual room in arena matches. Debuff character require set up and strategy to use, cleanse spamming and tenacity up and raw damage from the likes of Wiggs doesn't actually really require any strategy. (Not complaining about Wiggs, they're just the epitome of all damage no strategy lol). Manipulating status effects is a large part of this game, and one of the parts that actually requires you to think. Changing what we have now to make it less effective gives more power to the tenacity up cleanse spam and almost negates the strategy involved in manipulating status effects on toons. This is supposedly a strategy game, let's at least try to keep that for the time being.
It's not only now that I say tenacity up is also broken. I've stated it in numerous threads across this forum. I have also pointed out an easy fix for the problem numerous times.
Tenacity Down needing Crits as part of the ability itself instead of the mechanic but now having no checks whatsoever with Krennic is exactly the point of why having the mechanic balanced by limitations on the ability instead of checks on the mechanic itself is no good. It is an example of why it is bad to not have checks on the mechanic itself, not an example of how Nihilus's ability is fine.
I am not defending the fact of why I think it should be fixed at all. I am explaining over and over to people why their complaints about the balance of Nihilus has nothing whatsoever to do with the problem of having an indefensible detrimental mechanic. It is already "slated to be released in a future update" so, I am explaining to people how their perceptions is skewed. I am not at all arguing for what I want. I am trying to open the eyes of people who don't see the necessity of the incoming fix.
Instead of continuing to post threads to "keep Nihilus from being nerfed" (which is not what's about to happen anyway), people should be continually posting about fixing tenacity/potency.
And, since you haven't seen my complaints about tenacity/potency in general, I will reiterate an easy way to balance it.
First of all, fix the ratio. Make it a 50/50 chance to land a debuff before potency and tenacity are stacked instead of an 85/15 ratio in favor of debuffs. Keep the 15% minimum resist. Doing this would actually make stacking both tenacity and potency valuable.
Turn Tenacity up into a 50% multiplicative effect like offense up is. This would make tenacity up easily penetrable by stacking potency. If the person also stacked tenacity however, it would require potency gains from buffs and abilities to still be able to be penetrated. It would make it so stacking potency was a necessity if your team relies on debuffs, or stacking tenacity was necessary if you really wanted to avoid them.
Tenacity Down should be left exactly as is however.
Finally they should introduce new temporary buffs that grant 100% resistance of the next debuff, and new temporary debuffs that make the next debuff irresistible.
Any way you look at it though, talking about how tenacity up is broken is not a good reason to leave cooldown increase as an also broken mechanic.
You can say tenacity will probably never be changed, but if there's enough outcry it probably will be. They have been really really good about identifying and correcting bugs over the last few months. I think they expanded their staff. The non-bug fixing that was going on last year is not the case this year.
You have to balance tenacity/potency and then you can fix cd increase mechanic
Well that's probably not going to happen unfortunately. Cool down increase is already in the works for a fix. They haven't said anything about fixing tenacity/potency yet.
As for SiT, it's his taunt duration which gets me and I'm just not quick enough to shock him before he gains it. Chaze is largely RNG/mod dependant but I have never beaten a Sith squad with SiT in arena and by the time I've whittled his health pool, it's too late to get an ability block on DN before it's his turn to use drain force again or annihilate. Without a tank, Maul squads with DN are pretty easy (though bad RNG with evasion, Dooku's lightning and turn order after SiA's opening move have definitely gotten the better of me).
I consider myself lucky I manage to stay in the top 50 and make it to the top 20 for payout, and that luck is running out fast. I think I'll need ten battles tomorrow. Or maybe just pick a squad I enjoy fighting with and suck up the lower crystal payout.
Just throwing this out there for anyone who sees my previous victories against Chaze as proof they're balanced: they're seriously, seriously not balanced. At all.
https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/114199/ship-evasion-resistability#latest
That's what I thought, but it's nice to have the official word. Thanks.
Have you tried using EP and DN? EP to shock SiT and DN's dispel or another dispeller. He's great because he dispels on his basic.
https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/114199/ship-evasion-resistability#latest
Nihilus Resist Mechanics @CG_feltz916
I wanted to clarify this specific issue as there have been a couple of threads brought up regarding Nihilus and Cooldown Increase resistibility.
The current implementation of his Drain Force is working as intended per design intentions. It cannot be resisted. This is the same for other Characters and Ships that increase cooldowns as well. (Deathtrooper and Tie Reaper)
The issue is that we did not specify this in the ability description and will be updating the ability text to indicate this for all the affected units.
Meh. They said it was flagged as a bug and would be released in a future update. If they aren't changing it, then that's fine. But does a wording change sound like a bug fix to you?
Edit: Look at the official post again. They said flagging it as a bug for REVIEW.
https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/comment/990855/#Comment_990855
Yeah, that was the first one. The second one said differently though. It was no longer "sent up for review" and "to see what we could see", it was "flagged as a bug" and "slated for release in a future update":
https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/comment/1092802#Comment_1092802
They decided to make evasion the universal debuff check. They decided that any negative status effect that doesn't go through a tenacity check will say irresistible from now on. All good things. I still don't think that changing the wording is a bug fix.
Turning bugs into features is a viable solution. Ask pretty much any programmer
Edit: Although in this case, I am pretty sure it was designed this way, hence not really a bug.
Interestingly, I've lately been luckier against Zaul teams with SiT. That said, I'm well aware I need to gear up DN and B2 pronto. Kylo gets my next Stun Gun, but I'm farming another which will likely be given to B2.
It's a wonder it's taken me this long to work on B2 with the aggro he could have saved me.
Edit: and the number of times I've prematurely ended an arena match against Chaze because of the constant counters and health restoration... utterly frustrating and NOT fun.
Solution, yes. Designed this way, yes. Bug fix? No.
The point I am making is that they used terminology that led to the conclusion it was going to be changed.
I sense disappointment. Yoh would have prefered a different solution?
You may sense disappointment, but it's about a misleading statement rather than any personal investment in whatever they are going to do.
There solution isn't bad. They are going to make sure all debuffs can be dodged instead of them all going through tenacity (unless otherwise stated). That's a viable solution to me. Nihilus's ability could always be dodged, but debuffs that weren't tied to damage only had a resist check before.
The mechanic isn't broken as it has to go through a defense check of some kind, so I am satisfied with that. Their solution wasn't anything specific to the cooldown increase mechanic, it was a general rule for detrimental mechanics going forward (though nothing has outright changed), which is A-OK.
The woman who does the pr on the forum is not actually in the programming department. The developers had said earlier that DN worked as intended which is why it was shocking and surprising that it sounded like they were possibly going to alter him. Maybe it was the wording...... Maybe just a point that needed clarification among the staff at ea....... But it would have been a character breaking change had it actually been adjusted.
He's currently also the character who is probably the strongest direct counter to chaze and Rex. That would have gone away with the suggested alteration.
if his cd spell is resisted by tenacity up he will be useless
his zeta gives Rex first turn and then his entire team, then their DN goes and puts you 2 turns behind
so unfair I wish zetas would be usefull not break your team....