Tarkin in Arena? Probably not.

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Tiggus
714 posts Member
With all the hype surrounding the Grand Moff's new abilities, I was curious to test it in Arena (I run an Empire team), but someone beat me to it, so I tried it first in the opposite team.

The story goes like this:
  • ... some things happen ...
  • Tarkin fires his mass debuff thing, a blatant success: all my toons are now neutered with offense and crit down. Things look pretty bleak for me right now.
  • Next turn is mine: "The Negotiator" (Kenobi) repaints all that red into green...
  • Now having my whole squad with both offense up and crit chance up, that's a nice treat! After that, it didn't take long for me to wipe out the Grand Moff and his whole crew.

So it's perhaps the first time that a toon lands after his perfect counter is already well established? I think the window of opportunity for Tarkin in Arena has ended a few months before it began.

I'm sure he can still find a decent supporting role in a Tank P3 squad or something, but I wouldn't bet much on his ambitions to take the center stage, like Anakin or Boba did for a bit after their rework.
☮ Consular ☮ - https://swgoh.gg/u/tiggus/

Replies

  • Most anything that comes to the game with debuffs has been dead on arrival really since Chaze and GK were able to be put together with Rex. I do use Tarkin now in arena - I think his rework is strong - but your general sentiment about debuffs is correct. The cleanse v debuff situation is seriously out of whack.

    The unfortunate part is stats for debuff characters continue to be adjusted downward for the supposed ability to use debuffs. Look at Tarkin and EP's total protection + health and speed as well. They have less total health than the new coming ahsoka and also less speed. Same thing if you look at them vs. R2 (and R2 has a lot of debuffs) and same thing if you look at them vs. Chirrut.

  • ExarTheKun
    2667 posts Member
    The thing is, all abilities come into this game with counters. Ahsoka needs buffs to be effective. B2 is going to wipe those buffs and make everyone buff immune. TFP or Boba is going to ability block your cleanser. If you happen to be running three cleansers with Ahsoka, either your dropped your other attacker (Nihilus) or Baze (Tank). In either event, your team hits like a wet noodle, or you can't keep your two attackers alive.

    In a five vs five man battle, there will always be holes. Too much "meta" and not enough room on the team. Triple cleanse doesn't have any room to switch up the roster without sacrificing some effectiveness to gain an advantage in any other area. I expect we will see the same old teams even after Ahsokas release, or slightly altered, equally beatable alternatives.
  • The Tenacity and cleanse limits all arena team compositions from including any DS characters beside DN.
  • leef
    11921 posts Member
    DS has a multitude of toons to chose from who can stun/abi block kenobi.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • leef wrote: »
    DS has a multitude of toons to chose from who can stun/abi block kenobi.

    Like? Oh, and let's pretend you know that Chaze, and Rex exist and GK likely has Tenacity up. Meaning nothing is landing.
  • leef
    11921 posts Member
    leef wrote: »
    DS has a multitude of toons to chose from who can stun/abi block kenobi.

    Like? Oh, and let's pretend you know that Chaze, and Rex exist and GK likely has Tenacity up. Meaning nothing is landing.

    ow, is that how tenacity up works. who knew.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • Nebulous
    1437 posts Member
    leef wrote: »
    DS has a multitude of toons to chose from who can stun/abi block kenobi.

    Really though, we'd have to ability block 3 toons and do this each turn, furthermore, ability block is not even the same class as stun. Honestly, arguably the best used stunner in the game is ls And it's a droid. Stun on basic with great speed, amazing team wide uniques and super solid specials. This toon fits in all ls Decks.

    Ds has what, ep, rg and daka? Rg can't work now. Daka hasn't been good in a very long time and ep is really good but potentially too squishy. Ep is the best choice for stun. Ability block 2 of 3 and It may as well have been none of the 3. Stun 2 of the 3 and it may as well been none. So no, claiming to AB/stun and it's a win is not realistic.
  • BrtStlnd
    1092 posts Member
    Yeah I mean all you have to do is ability block 3 different characters on every turn while disabling their respective uniques and preventing any of the three from getting a turn or using a special ability the entire match.

    Pssh, that's so easy I can do it on my sleep!
  • BrtStlnd wrote: »
    Yeah I mean all you have to do is ability block 3 different characters on every turn while disabling their respective uniques and preventing any of the three from getting a turn or using a special ability the entire match.

    Pssh, that's so easy I can do it on my sleep!

    And the best part is, there's a plethora of toons that can do it! Who would have thought, triple perpetual ability block, so simple it's silly!
  • leef
    11921 posts Member
    darn, i forgot again. I must learn to remember that the tripple cleans team is super OP and unbeatable, especially unbeatable for empire characters!
    smh

    Save water, drink champagne!
  • Tarkin is so much fun to use in GW and playing whack-an-Ewok. This rework is why I'm glad I invested in him. Load up on offense and potency mods, build up the damage during battle and unload a whopper. I've definitely seen decent damage with him.
    .GG Profile | Got spaces on my ally list.
  • Allenb60
    2125 posts Member
    edited May 2017
    Just imagine if Fulcrum Ahsoka had the Pheonix tag, they would gain health from being debuffed
    Edit: assuming Kanan is on the team
  • Nebulous
    1437 posts Member
    leef wrote: »
    darn, i forgot again. I must learn to remember that the tripple cleans team is super OP and unbeatable, especially unbeatable for empire characters!
    smh
    All I play is empire and I can crush chaze. Your comment was just flat out wrong. You said use stun or ability block to stop them. This isn't a top tier strat vs them.
  • leef wrote: »
    darn, i forgot again. I must learn to remember that the tripple cleans team is super OP and unbeatable, especially unbeatable for empire characters!
    smh

    It isn't that the triple cleanse team is unbeatable, it is that it takes careful strategy for a dark side team to beat them and they can beat all the dark side teams on auto. I love my Zader squad, but it isn't nearly as strong as all the double and triple cleanse teams I face. I have AOE stun, ability block, and cooldown increase on it plus the ab on Vaders basic, and it is still takes good RNG to beat teams that have both GK and Chaze.
  • Gaidal_Cain
    1635 posts Member
    leef wrote: »
    darn, i forgot again. I must learn to remember that the tripple cleans team is super OP and unbeatable, especially unbeatable for empire characters!
    smh

    It isn't that the triple cleanse team is unbeatable, it is that it takes careful strategy for a dark side team to beat them and they can beat all the dark side teams on auto. I love my Zader squad, but it isn't nearly as strong as all the double and triple cleanse teams I face. I have AOE stun, ability block, and cooldown increase on it plus the ab on Vaders basic, and it is still takes good RNG to beat teams that have both GK and Chaze.

    This.

    Some of these squads literally cannot lose on offense and they hold up extremely well on defense.
  • nobody talks about B2 anymore...
  • LastJedi
    3047 posts Member
    edited May 2017
    leef wrote: »
    darn, i forgot again. I must learn to remember that the tripple cleans team is super OP and unbeatable, especially unbeatable for empire characters!
    smh

    It isn't that the triple cleanse team is unbeatable, it is that it takes careful strategy for a dark side team to beat them and they can beat all the dark side teams on auto. I love my Zader squad, but it isn't nearly as strong as all the double and triple cleanse teams I face. I have AOE stun, ability block, and cooldown increase on it plus the ab on Vaders basic, and it is still takes good RNG to beat teams that have both GK and Chaze.

    Fyi, the only squad i cant beat is a zader lead, sa, zid. The other two change sometimes. But no chaze. This squad beats me on auto, for sure. Cuz i cant beat the AI. This is the only vader lead in my arena, fortunately for me.

    I use rex, dn, chaze, and b2/ep/boba. So i cant wait to get gk and auto this squad. Lol. I dont think that is gonna happen. Cant cleanse zader dots.
  • leef
    11921 posts Member
    Nebulous wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    darn, i forgot again. I must learn to remember that the tripple cleans team is super OP and unbeatable, especially unbeatable for empire characters!
    smh
    All I play is empire and I can crush chaze.
    i was being sarcastic obviously, i know empire can beat the tripple cleanse team because i see it happening on my arena leaderboard every day.
    Your comment was just flat out wrong. You said use stun or ability block to stop them. This isn't a top tier strat vs them.
    The thread was about kenobi being an excisting counter to the rework of tarkin, wich makes him unuseable in arena. My response:
    leef wrote: »
    DS has a multitude of toons to chose from who can stun/abi block kenobi.
    But okay, lets just assume the only kenobi's encountered in arena are supported by chaze with a rex lead. You can still make it work using stuns and abi blocks. Is it easy? No, if you want easy you should just use your own tripple cleanse team. Is it a top tier strategy? maybe not. I'd include a character who increases cooldowns aswell for more controll. Point is, you can make it work.
    I'm just tired of people calling toons useless because of.. .chaze/rex/kenobi. You yourself apparantly figured out a tactic that works vs them. One thing is for sure, stuns help me out a bunch when facing the tripple cleanse team.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • Tiggus
    714 posts Member
    leef wrote: »
    I'm just tired of people calling toons useless because of.. .chaze/rex/kenobi. You yourself apparantly figured out a tactic that works vs them. One thing is for sure, stuns help me out a bunch when facing the tripple cleanse team.

    I didn't go as far as calling Tarkin useless, but he'll have a hell of a hard time to prove himself in Arena, given the current landscape, and it's a bit sad for a fresh rework (I'm also a bit disappointed because I have him nearly maxed out already). The same cannot be said for R2 or Sith Assassin for example, or for Boba or Anakin when it happened.

    Note that he's far from being alone... The whole Phoenix team for instance, is also not anywhere close to get its share of Arena, probably whatever the current meta is.

    But who knows, maybe there is synergy waiting to happen?

    ☮ Consular ☮ - https://swgoh.gg/u/tiggus/
  • LastJedi wrote: »

    I use rex, dn, chaze, and b2/ep/boba. So i cant wait to get gk and auto this squad. Lol. I dont think that is gonna happen. Cant cleanse zader dots.
    This explains your openly biased posts. Pretty pathetic.
  • Most anything that comes to the game with debuffs has been dead on arrival really since Chaze and GK were able to be put together with Rex. I do use Tarkin now in arena - I think his rework is strong - but your general sentiment about debuffs is correct. The cleanse v debuff situation is seriously out of whack.

    The unfortunate part is stats for debuff characters continue to be adjusted downward for the supposed ability to use debuffs. Look at Tarkin and EP's total protection + health and speed as well. They have less total health than the new coming ahsoka and also less speed. Same thing if you look at them vs. R2 (and R2 has a lot of debuffs) and same thing if you look at them vs. Chirrut.

    Sorry, remember TiTO (Zarriss Chaze Boba GK)? It was a matter of running down the clock. I sincerely prefer a anti-debuff meta to that.

    BTW, you want to know what caused triple cleanse? Zaul...
  • ExarTheKun wrote: »
    The thing is, all abilities come into this game with counters. Ahsoka needs buffs to be effective. B2 is going to wipe those buffs and make everyone buff immune. TFP or Boba is going to ability block your cleanser. If you happen to be running three cleansers with Ahsoka, either your dropped your other attacker (Nihilus) or Baze (Tank). In either event, your team hits like a wet noodle, or you can't keep your two attackers alive.

    In a five vs five man battle, there will always be holes. Too much "meta" and not enough room on the team. Triple cleanse doesn't have any room to switch up the roster without sacrificing some effectiveness to gain an advantage in any other area. I expect we will see the same old teams even after Ahsokas release, or slightly altered, equally beatable alternatives.

    TiTO, the forerunner of triple cleanse, adapted into double cleanse when Nihilus arrived, then triple cleanse came when Zaul became rampant.
  • LastJedi wrote: »

    I use rex, dn, chaze, and b2/ep/boba. So i cant wait to get gk and auto this squad. Lol. I dont think that is gonna happen. Cant cleanse zader dots.
    This explains your openly biased posts. Pretty pathetic.

    I just find funny that he doesn't use even a single jedi with that username.
  • Most anything that comes to the game with debuffs has been dead on arrival really since Chaze and GK were able to be put together with Rex. I do use Tarkin now in arena - I think his rework is strong - but your general sentiment about debuffs is correct. The cleanse v debuff situation is seriously out of whack.

    The unfortunate part is stats for debuff characters continue to be adjusted downward for the supposed ability to use debuffs. Look at Tarkin and EP's total protection + health and speed as well. They have less total health than the new coming ahsoka and also less speed. Same thing if you look at them vs. R2 (and R2 has a lot of debuffs) and same thing if you look at them vs. Chirrut.

    Sorry, remember TiTO (Zarriss Chaze Boba GK)? It was a matter of running down the clock. I sincerely prefer a anti-debuff meta to that.

    BTW, you want to know what caused triple cleanse? Zaul...

    Triple cleanse parts were around WAY before Maul and people have used Rex in arena for >1 year since he was created. Maul was a joke - he was good for like 2 weeks on my leaderboard. Maul didn't create anything.
  • Most anything that comes to the game with debuffs has been dead on arrival really since Chaze and GK were able to be put together with Rex. I do use Tarkin now in arena - I think his rework is strong - but your general sentiment about debuffs is correct. The cleanse v debuff situation is seriously out of whack.

    The unfortunate part is stats for debuff characters continue to be adjusted downward for the supposed ability to use debuffs. Look at Tarkin and EP's total protection + health and speed as well. They have less total health than the new coming ahsoka and also less speed. Same thing if you look at them vs. R2 (and R2 has a lot of debuffs) and same thing if you look at them vs. Chirrut.

    Sorry, remember TiTO (Zarriss Chaze Boba GK)? It was a matter of running down the clock. I sincerely prefer a anti-debuff meta to that.

    BTW, you want to know what caused triple cleanse? Zaul...

    Triple cleanse parts were around WAY before Maul and people have used Rex in arena for >1 year since he was created. Maul was a joke - he was good for like 2 weeks on my leaderboard. Maul didn't create anything.

    On my leaderboard triple cleanse only started this week, and we're still fighting Zaul...
  • Most anything that comes to the game with debuffs has been dead on arrival really since Chaze and GK were able to be put together with Rex. I do use Tarkin now in arena - I think his rework is strong - but your general sentiment about debuffs is correct. The cleanse v debuff situation is seriously out of whack.

    The unfortunate part is stats for debuff characters continue to be adjusted downward for the supposed ability to use debuffs. Look at Tarkin and EP's total protection + health and speed as well. They have less total health than the new coming ahsoka and also less speed. Same thing if you look at them vs. R2 (and R2 has a lot of debuffs) and same thing if you look at them vs. Chirrut.

    Sorry, remember TiTO (Zarriss Chaze Boba GK)? It was a matter of running down the clock. I sincerely prefer a anti-debuff meta to that.

    BTW, you want to know what caused triple cleanse? Zaul...

    Triple cleanse parts were around WAY before Maul and people have used Rex in arena for >1 year since he was created. Maul was a joke - he was good for like 2 weeks on my leaderboard. Maul didn't create anything.

    On my leaderboard triple cleanse only started this week, and we're still fighting Zaul...

    Gotcha. My LB is old and has always moved fast - many of the top 10/20 guys already had Chaze / GK / Rex teams before DN/SA/SiTrooper were even created. Not many were running all of them together in one, but 3x cleanse teams + DN popped up months ago for me and pushed Maul out in a matter of weeks. Highest ranked Maul right now is at 22 - next one isn't until 38 - 5 Mauls in the top 50 total now.
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