No what I am saying is the compositions will get the job done to win a battle. How they fare on defence is a different matter.
Of course nihilus lead works.
Aa lead wiggs leia and Fulcrum (sub kenobi or r2 if you want to) also get it done.
The point is if you use debuffs and trigger the tenacity up you will have a very bad time.
But with planning and careful mod deployment even droids can get there with the right rng ie ability blocks on the right people at the right time. A guildmates alt gets top 10 with droids on a Dec 15 server....mostly because they can.
BTW Ewoks would work because they manipulate tm and don't give out debuffs. Dispell baze / work on kenobi / tmr control DN. The triple cleanse squads tenacity process is not triggered until chirrut tries to heal. So don't take anyone below 50% unless you can kill them before chirrut goes again. Use chirpa and/or GK bum-rush to finish toons off.
Tenacity is not a problematic debuff you simply need to understand how to counter it. Posts like this one suggest you are having significant issues with the game mechanic. Others don't so maybe there is some wisdom there if nowhere else.
No what I am saying is the compositions will get the job done to win a battle. How they fare on defence is a different matter.
Of course nihilus lead works.
Aa lead wiggs leia and Fulcrum (sub kenobi or r2 if you want to) also get it done.
The point is if you use debuffs and trigger the tenacity up you will have a very bad time.
But with planning and careful mod deployment even droids can get there with the right rng ie ability blocks on the right people at the right time. A guildmates alt gets top 10 with droids on a Dec 15 server....mostly because they can.
BTW Ewoks would work because they manipulate tm and don't give out debuffs. Dispell baze / work on kenobi / tmr control DN. The triple cleanse squads tenacity process is not triggered until chirrut tries to heal. So don't take anyone below 50% unless you can kill them before chirrut goes again. Use chirpa and/or GK bum-rush to finish toons off.
Tenacity is not a problematic debuff you simply need to understand how to counter it. Posts like this one suggest you are having significant issues with the game mechanic. Others don't so maybe there is some wisdom there if nowhere else.
LOL. Having difficulty with the game mechanic?? Looool. You are so naive. Triple cleanse with tenacity up is the most blatantly broken composition in the game that kills arena diversity. It hurts the game, makes competitive play extremely unhealthy and most importantly, completely invalidates a MASSIVE part of the game, considering how many characters are built around applying debuffs.
I hope you never become a game developer, because your answer to the community would always be "get good" when someone complains about an OP character.
Guys are you all forgetting that Zaul and the host of evil Sith and other Dark side Debuffers Ruled the arena for months. Really a big part of the game is that Metas shift and change so all you sith and empire loving sissies that who want the BAD GUYS TO RULE SUCK IT UP AND PLAY THE GAME. Let the Good Guys have their Day FOR ONCE GOODNESS KNOWS THEY DESERVE AND EARNED IT.
Just nerf rex is all i say, he has been meta for long enough, even longer than droids
But he is the only Clone that is very Good in arena I might could live with making him more limited to the clone/galactic republic Factions IF AND ONLY IF THE CLONE FACTION GETS A BUFF and or more characters that make clones arena viable
Tenacity is not a problematic debuff you simply need to understand how to counter it. Posts like this one suggest you are having significant issues with the game mechanic. Others don't so maybe there is some wisdom there if nowhere else.
I'm pretty sure you've been inflated with a sense of #1 arena superiority. "If I can beat it, so can you!" This logic is obviously absurd, and it alludes that you have little grasp on the question being presented.
And yes, technically many are having 'significant issues' with the game mechanic; specifically game balance.
Lastly, this isn't something you or I decide, this is hashed out by developers and game balance specialists. They have access to a much wider array of data than your experiences in the limited scope of your (or my) one shard and the small group of people (we) compete with at that range.
Tenacity is not a problematic debuff you simply need to understand how to counter it. Posts like this one suggest you are having significant issues with the game mechanic. Others don't so maybe there is some wisdom there if nowhere else.
I'm pretty sure you've been inflated with a sense of #1 arena superiority. "If I can beat it, so can you!" This logic is obviously absurd, and it alludes that you have little grasp on the question being presented.
And yes, technically many are having 'significant issues' with the game mechanic; specifically game balance.
Lastly, this isn't something you or I decide, this is hashed out by developers and game balance specialists. They have access to a much wider array of data than your experiences in the limited scope of your (or my) one shard and the small group of people (we) compete with at that range.
Yes mate I can beat it.....and so can you if you just try hard enough. One little buff that does no damage and you can't work out a squad to get around it? Come on - put your back in to it!
Here is the crux of the problem; people who are unable to develop a counter to what is a very benign buff are simply not bringing the right tools to the job. Why would you think a screwdriver can take the place of a hammer.
Tenacity itself isnt the issue it can be dispelled - its the combination of toons in the squad that is the issue.
I have run jedi on and off at the top for a long long time. I can also remember clearly my frustration with the dooku rg and data stun meta where I couldn't get a turn because my whole squad was stun locked. But instead of demanding a nerf I evolved and figured out new ways of dealing with it. Several other issues have been similar zaul wiggs etc have all caused no end of trouble.
It is clearly evident that he triple cleanse squad is beatable and for your benefit I provided a variety of ways to get there. Instead of throwing you hands up in the air and attacking on the forum why don't you use them for your benefit.
Finally it is good that game designers and balance experts have had tenacity in the game for a long as they have because they have also decided against making any changes thus far. Therefore it becomes even more important to adapt your strategy in order to continue to win.
No what I am saying is the compositions will get the job done to win a battle. How they fare on defence is a different matter.
Of course nihilus lead works.
Aa lead wiggs leia and Fulcrum (sub kenobi or r2 if you want to) also get it done.
The point is if you use debuffs and trigger the tenacity up you will have a very bad time.
But with planning and careful mod deployment even droids can get there with the right rng ie ability blocks on the right people at the right time. A guildmates alt gets top 10 with droids on a Dec 15 server....mostly because they can.
BTW Ewoks would work because they manipulate tm and don't give out debuffs. Dispell baze / work on kenobi / tmr control DN. The triple cleanse squads tenacity process is not triggered until chirrut tries to heal. So don't take anyone below 50% unless you can kill them before chirrut goes again. Use chirpa and/or GK bum-rush to finish toons off.
Tenacity is not a problematic debuff you simply need to understand how to counter it. Posts like this one suggest you are having significant issues with the game mechanic. Others don't so maybe there is some wisdom there if nowhere else.
LOL. Having difficulty with the game mechanic?? Looool. You are so naive. Triple cleanse with tenacity up is the most blatantly broken composition in the game that kills arena diversity. It hurts the game, makes competitive play extremely unhealthy and most importantly, completely invalidates a MASSIVE part of the game, considering how many characters are built around applying debuffs.
I hope you never become a game developer, because your answer to the community would always be "get good" when someone complains about an OP character.
Yep getting good is important. Can't be mediocre and expect top results! You are 100% correct.
It isnt OP by a long shot. As noted above many compositions will beat it and many more not listed there. If nothing else we should see the meta evolve to include more triple cleanse busting teams.
At the top triple cleanse is already old news with many adapting to find new strategies that smash it. The tail of the story is that chirrut and baze and gk are long intensive farms so people will continue to use them for some time to come.
Tenacity Down still allows 15% chance to resist. Make special toons like Yoda have Debuff Immunity as a new buff and Tenacity Up still leaving 15% chance to not resist. It will effectively nerf chaze and Rex, while making Yoda a it better
Tenacity Up being a guaranteed cleanse and guaranteed debuff immunity all in one is so nonsensical that it seems like an oversight they forgot to fix and are now scared to fix because an entire ecosystem has formed around it
No what I am saying is the compositions will get the job done to win a battle. How they fare on defence is a different matter.
Of course nihilus lead works.
Aa lead wiggs leia and Fulcrum (sub kenobi or r2 if you want to) also get it done.
The point is if you use debuffs and trigger the tenacity up you will have a very bad time.
But with planning and careful mod deployment even droids can get there with the right rng ie ability blocks on the right people at the right time. A guildmates alt gets top 10 with droids on a Dec 15 server....mostly because they can.
BTW Ewoks would work because they manipulate tm and don't give out debuffs. Dispell baze / work on kenobi / tmr control DN. The triple cleanse squads tenacity process is not triggered until chirrut tries to heal. So don't take anyone below 50% unless you can kill them before chirrut goes again. Use chirpa and/or GK bum-rush to finish toons off.
Tenacity is not a problematic debuff you simply need to understand how to counter it. Posts like this one suggest you are having significant issues with the game mechanic. Others don't so maybe there is some wisdom there if nowhere else.
LOL. Having difficulty with the game mechanic?? Looool. You are so naive. Triple cleanse with tenacity up is the most blatantly broken composition in the game that kills arena diversity. It hurts the game, makes competitive play extremely unhealthy and most importantly, completely invalidates a MASSIVE part of the game, considering how many characters are built around applying debuffs.
I hope you never become a game developer, because your answer to the community would always be "get good" when someone complains about an OP character.
Tenacity Up being a guaranteed cleanse and guaranteed debuff immunity all in one is so nonsensical that it seems like an oversight they forgot to fix and are now scared to fix because an entire ecosystem has formed around it
No what I am saying is the compositions will get the job done to win a battle. How they fare on defence is a different matter.
Of course nihilus lead works.
Aa lead wiggs leia and Fulcrum (sub kenobi or r2 if you want to) also get it done.
The point is if you use debuffs and trigger the tenacity up you will have a very bad time.
But with planning and careful mod deployment even droids can get there with the right rng ie ability blocks on the right people at the right time. A guildmates alt gets top 10 with droids on a Dec 15 server....mostly because they can.
BTW Ewoks would work because they manipulate tm and don't give out debuffs. Dispell baze / work on kenobi / tmr control DN. The triple cleanse squads tenacity process is not triggered until chirrut tries to heal. So don't take anyone below 50% unless you can kill them before chirrut goes again. Use chirpa and/or GK bum-rush to finish toons off.
Tenacity is not a problematic debuff you simply need to understand how to counter it. Posts like this one suggest you are having significant issues with the game mechanic. Others don't so maybe there is some wisdom there if nowhere else.
LOL. Having difficulty with the game mechanic?? Looool. You are so naive. Triple cleanse with tenacity up is the most blatantly broken composition in the game that kills arena diversity. It hurts the game, makes competitive play extremely unhealthy and most importantly, completely invalidates a MASSIVE part of the game, considering how many characters are built around applying debuffs.
I hope you never become a game developer, because your answer to the community would always be "get good" when someone complains about an OP character.
The title says it all. Changing tenacity up to mirror tenacity down in terms of effectiveness would break up the triple cleanse meta from dominating everything without being a direct nerf to any one character. There would be far more arena diversity and make the game much healthier. The Devs could even get away with it because it's not a "nerf," they could just say it wasn't working as intended.
If they want to keep a debuff immunity mechanic, then create a debuff immunity buff on the level of the buff immunity debuff, and then be smart about how many characters to give to, unlike the current triple cleanse/tenacity up cancer.
Wiggs Rebels will get there as well with some chirrut baze healing. Again no debuffs except baze basic and wedge defence down.
Tbh I reckon Ewoks in a teebo raid configuration would probably also get the job done provided they were fast enough and you include a dispeller
Nihilus led sith trounce it.
Boba fett gets you past chirrut and then triple cleanse is a bit silly.
Zader with a quick sith assassin will get in behind the tenacity up. Bring boba and shoretrooper and maybe deathtrooper.
Old ben lead fast zoda gk nihilus and deathtrooper also works spectacularly
So many options to knock over triple cleanse it's just not funny. Even droids can do it with some good rng.
Think outside the box and actually put together a squad that can handle life in the fast lane.
Yeah.. if you think even half those teams can compete and stay in top 10-20 arena against Rex triple cleanse you are deluded and clearly not a top tier arena player, certainly not with some of those teams you mentioned.
So who says every combination of teams MUST be able to stay in the top 20 of arena?
So basically people (probably Sith meta users) are **** that tenacity up blocks all those nifty Sith debuffs. Well, too bad.
I remember when the Sith meta came out; 8 out of 10 teams were Zaul teams, and when people complained, we heard a litany of "get a better team to fight them; they can be beat. Get better. Learn to play smarter. Stop trying to play with your Jedi team."
So now people have found a counter, which is exactly what all the Sith power players said they should do...and the result? To complain about it. "Oh, tenacity up is unfair because it always works! It's the only buff/debuff in the game that always works and there's no way to get around it!"
So the objection, then, is that it always works and you can't land a debuff on it. So you want it to have a chance to fail. Well, I've news for you; there are a LOT of buffs AND debuffs that "always work" when they're activated. So to go with what you're asking - to make it "fair" - then we need a rule that ALL buffs/debuffs should have a chance to fail. If that's the case, then here's where we can start:
Characters who are dazed should have a 15% chance to still gain TM, assist, or counter.
Characters who have been ability blocked should have a 15% chance to still gain buffs when attempts are made.
Characters who have been heal blocked should have a 15% chance to gain health.
Darth Maul's auto-stealth for Sith should have a 15% failure rate.
Darth Vader's DOT's should have a 15% chance to not come back ,even with his zeta.
Stunned characters have a 15% chance to not miss a turn.
Retribution should only work 85% of the time.
Characters should have a 15% chance to ignore taunt.
Staggered characters should lose only 85% TM.
Characters who are shocked have a 15% chance to heal, gain buffs, or gain bonus turn meter.
Offense up only works 85% of the time.
There. We can do many more, I'm sure, but those are buffs/debuffs with effects that can't be resisted (when they land) or can't fail. If we can't have buffs that have no chance of failing, well, then let's just get it over and make sure all debuffs/buffs have a chance not to work.
Replies
Of course nihilus lead works.
Aa lead wiggs leia and Fulcrum (sub kenobi or r2 if you want to) also get it done.
The point is if you use debuffs and trigger the tenacity up you will have a very bad time.
But with planning and careful mod deployment even droids can get there with the right rng ie ability blocks on the right people at the right time. A guildmates alt gets top 10 with droids on a Dec 15 server....mostly because they can.
BTW Ewoks would work because they manipulate tm and don't give out debuffs. Dispell baze / work on kenobi / tmr control DN. The triple cleanse squads tenacity process is not triggered until chirrut tries to heal. So don't take anyone below 50% unless you can kill them before chirrut goes again. Use chirpa and/or GK bum-rush to finish toons off.
Tenacity is not a problematic debuff you simply need to understand how to counter it. Posts like this one suggest you are having significant issues with the game mechanic. Others don't so maybe there is some wisdom there if nowhere else.
LOL. Having difficulty with the game mechanic?? Looool. You are so naive. Triple cleanse with tenacity up is the most blatantly broken composition in the game that kills arena diversity. It hurts the game, makes competitive play extremely unhealthy and most importantly, completely invalidates a MASSIVE part of the game, considering how many characters are built around applying debuffs.
I hope you never become a game developer, because your answer to the community would always be "get good" when someone complains about an OP character.
But he is the only Clone that is very Good in arena I might could live with making him more limited to the clone/galactic republic Factions IF AND ONLY IF THE CLONE FACTION GETS A BUFF and or more characters that make clones arena viable
I'm pretty sure you've been inflated with a sense of #1 arena superiority. "If I can beat it, so can you!" This logic is obviously absurd, and it alludes that you have little grasp on the question being presented.
And yes, technically many are having 'significant issues' with the game mechanic; specifically game balance.
Lastly, this isn't something you or I decide, this is hashed out by developers and game balance specialists. They have access to a much wider array of data than your experiences in the limited scope of your (or my) one shard and the small group of people (we) compete with at that range.
Yes mate I can beat it.....and so can you if you just try hard enough. One little buff that does no damage and you can't work out a squad to get around it? Come on - put your back in to it!
Here is the crux of the problem; people who are unable to develop a counter to what is a very benign buff are simply not bringing the right tools to the job. Why would you think a screwdriver can take the place of a hammer.
Tenacity itself isnt the issue it can be dispelled - its the combination of toons in the squad that is the issue.
I have run jedi on and off at the top for a long long time. I can also remember clearly my frustration with the dooku rg and data stun meta where I couldn't get a turn because my whole squad was stun locked. But instead of demanding a nerf I evolved and figured out new ways of dealing with it. Several other issues have been similar zaul wiggs etc have all caused no end of trouble.
It is clearly evident that he triple cleanse squad is beatable and for your benefit I provided a variety of ways to get there. Instead of throwing you hands up in the air and attacking on the forum why don't you use them for your benefit.
Finally it is good that game designers and balance experts have had tenacity in the game for a long as they have because they have also decided against making any changes thus far. Therefore it becomes even more important to adapt your strategy in order to continue to win.
Yep getting good is important. Can't be mediocre and expect top results! You are 100% correct.
It isnt OP by a long shot. As noted above many compositions will beat it and many more not listed there. If nothing else we should see the meta evolve to include more triple cleanse busting teams.
At the top triple cleanse is already old news with many adapting to find new strategies that smash it. The tail of the story is that chirrut and baze and gk are long intensive farms so people will continue to use them for some time to come.
Dude, stop crying and...
@kielbotronix that had me in stitches
What? You wanna nerf Rex?
fair enough.
I run Chaze.
So who says every combination of teams MUST be able to stay in the top 20 of arena?
So basically people (probably Sith meta users) are **** that tenacity up blocks all those nifty Sith debuffs. Well, too bad.
I remember when the Sith meta came out; 8 out of 10 teams were Zaul teams, and when people complained, we heard a litany of "get a better team to fight them; they can be beat. Get better. Learn to play smarter. Stop trying to play with your Jedi team."
So now people have found a counter, which is exactly what all the Sith power players said they should do...and the result? To complain about it. "Oh, tenacity up is unfair because it always works! It's the only buff/debuff in the game that always works and there's no way to get around it!"
So the objection, then, is that it always works and you can't land a debuff on it. So you want it to have a chance to fail. Well, I've news for you; there are a LOT of buffs AND debuffs that "always work" when they're activated. So to go with what you're asking - to make it "fair" - then we need a rule that ALL buffs/debuffs should have a chance to fail. If that's the case, then here's where we can start:
There. We can do many more, I'm sure, but those are buffs/debuffs with effects that can't be resisted (when they land) or can't fail. If we can't have buffs that have no chance of failing, well, then let's just get it over and make sure all debuffs/buffs have a chance not to work.
Sound fair?