Since when are sith (as a faction) paper to Jedi's rocks? It makes sense for there to be anti-sith Jedi, because awhile they acted as peacekeepers of the Galaxy, their main task was always to fight the dark side... and hence Sith.
No, it really wasn't. For the majority of nearly every Jedi's life the Sith were thought to be extinct. The only in-game exceptions to this are possibly Yoda, Barris, Ahsoka, Kanan and Ezra. Yoda is old, and I don't believe we've gotten a new-cannon answer when/why the Sith went underground. Barriss, Ahsoka & Kanan weren't yet padawans when Maul showed up, Ezra wasn't even born.
They can't be anti-Sith, because there were "no" Sith. GK's line about "our specialty" was him talking out his behind, at that point he'd watched his master die to at a Sith's hand and killed exactly 0 himself.
In fact, throughout the entire new-cannon Sith kill scores of Jedi, and Kenobi & Ani(not even really a Jedi at that point) are the only 2 to take a Sith out.
Since when are sith (as a faction) paper to Jedi's rocks? It makes sense for there to be anti-sith Jedi, because awhile they acted as peacekeepers of the Galaxy, their main task was always to fight the dark side... and hence Sith.
No, it really wasn't. For the majority of nearly every Jedi's life the Sith were thought to be extinct. The only in-game exceptions to this are possibly Yoda, Barris, Ahsoka, Kanan and Ezra. Yoda is old, and I don't believe we've gotten a new-cannon answer when/why the Sith went underground. Barriss, Ahsoka & Kanan were padawans when Maul showed up, Ezra was barely born.
They can't be anti-Sith, because there were "no" Sith. GK's line about "our specialty" was him talking out his behind, at that point he'd watched his master die to at a Sith's hand and killed exactly 0 himself.
In fact, throughout the entire new-cannon Sith kill scores of Jedi, and Kenobi & Ani(not even really a Jedi at that point) are the only 2 to take a Sith out.
As far as anyone knew at that point, Maul was dead. GK wasn't talking out of his behind. He had gone head-to-head with the only other Sith they knew of, specifically, and won. In fact, Kenobi defeated Maul EVERY time they fought, even with Savage's help. And you can't claim "scores of Jedi vs 2 Sith," when there were literally only 2 Sith at a time. If you take that as percentages, it's like 98% Jedi vs 100% of Sith. Jedi win that argument every time.
There are multiple sith with anti-Jedi traits (maul, sidious, EP, etc.) but no Jedi with anti-sith abilities. Anakin doesn't deal damage to all sith/federation enemies at the end of every turn. Is there a reason there are no anti-sith Jedi?
I completely agree that there should be anti-Sith abilities to balance things out, but once you get zetas, the only one that will bother you is zMaul. I run a fast zQGJ, Aayla, Yoda, JKA, Ahsoka team. I look for zVader, EP, and DN leads. As long as I can get my Yoda to go 1st, I win. Every time. Tenacity Up negates zVader and EP, and DN lead teams are too slow.
@Sawyerstooth I'll give you most of that. However while Kenobi had a great record VS Maul, he lost multiple times as well. Even in his victories he was often bailed out by Ani(and even Ventress). I'd gladly give him anti-Sith before anyone else, but it's still a stretch.
I had no idea people felt so strongly that jedi shouldn't have anti-sith abilities. I just thought since palp and co. have clearly stated anti-Jedi abilities, it wouldn't be such a bad idea to add a couple of Jedi that have clearly stated anti-sith abilities. I appreciate the support from everyone who agrees, and I also appreciate everyone's different points and the validity of their arguments. However, this game isn't pure Star Wars. Otherwise, it would be dominated by the force wielders. Characters who are considered top tier, such as wedge, Baze, chirrut, boba, even thrawn (I've seen reviews he's the best character in the game; I'm not sold) would just be decapitated immediately by the saber-wielders. So maybe it doesn't make sense to those who disagree with me that the current Jedi could possibly have anti-sith synergy; it also doesn't make sense that any common soldier (I.e. Geonosian soldier, b2, even the likes of Leia and Han) could ever take on a Jedi/sith 1v1 and survive, which occurs regularly in this game. Remember what happened when Han tried to shoot Vader in ep. V? Didn't really work out for him.
Edit: Oh and remember Jango? Perfect example of my decapitation hypothesis.
If you want balance, why would you want the Jedi to have anti Sith abilities? Shouldn't it be another faction? Why are we complaining that rock loses to paper so it needs an anti paper ability?
Since when are sith (as a faction) paper to Jedi's rocks? It makes sense for there to be anti-sith Jedi, because awhile they acted as peacekeepers of the Galaxy, their main task was always to fight the dark side... and hence Sith.
I'm not even referencing lore (which others have touched on), but speaking to game balance. It doesn't make a lot of sense to have Jedi get bonuses against Sith and Sith get bonuses against Jedi. It's ideal to create strengths and weaknesses.
If you want balance, why would you want the Jedi to have anti Sith abilities? Shouldn't it be another faction? Why are we complaining that rock loses to paper so it needs an anti paper ability?
Since when are sith (as a faction) paper to Jedi's rocks? It makes sense for there to be anti-sith Jedi, because awhile they acted as peacekeepers of the Galaxy, their main task was always to fight the dark side... and hence Sith.
I'm not even referencing lore (which others have touched on), but speaking to game balance. It doesn't make a lot of sense to have Jedi get bonuses against Sith and Sith get bonuses against Jedi. It's ideal to create strengths and weaknesses.
Balance-wise, Yoda is already pretty anti-sith. Not explicitly so, but foresight and tenacity up are both great counters to many of the sith abilities. A zQGJ, zYoda team does quite fine vs. Sith. However this is quite clearly a conversation about flavor. Maul is a jedi-hunting Sith and thus does bonus damage to Jedi. Darth Sidious stayed well hidden from the Jedi council and gets bonus evasion vs. Jedi. Why not give GK bonus accuracy vs. Sith? Or better yet: in Mace rework, give him a chance to reflect damage from Sith back onto themselves (Vaapad!).
I believe it's because none of the Jedi were anti-sith. We would need more from the galactic civil war SWKOTR timeframe, when they were actively training to combat the Sith. Whereas those characters on the sith side that were mentioned were actively training to combat the Jedi. Plus, two of the toons you mentioned are the same guy. Vader has his because he actively hunted the Jedi. There was no Jedi, that are in the game, that did this. Mace had one encounter with the sith, and lost. If you read the book, EP played him the entire fight in order to secure Anakin's fall to the dark side.
I'll give you a lot of that, but the bolded part is not accurate. First, Lucas said Windu won. In absence of definitive evidence in source material, you gotta go with the creator's intention. Second, it specifically says in the novelization that Mace and Palpatine reached a point near the end of the fight where they were both so entrenched in their style and the force it could have gone on indefinitely with neither side giving way... had Vapaad been Mace's only talent. Had Anakin not betrayed him it is strongly implied that Mace would have found another shatterpoint in the moment and finished the fight. Instead he found Anakin and Palpatine was able to finish the job of turning him.
@Sawyerstooth I'll give you most of that. However while Kenobi had a great record VS Maul, he lost multiple times as well. Even in his victories he was often bailed out by Ani(and even Ventress). I'd gladly give him anti-Sith before anyone else, but it's still a stretch.
He only lost once, their first meeting post TPM, in a 1v2 versus Maul and Savage. He later escapes with Ventress's help. After that he won a 1v2 versus Maul and Savage after Opress killed Adi Gallia. Their final meeting during the clone wars OBK was captured by death watch and never crossed blades with Maul. Then of course there was the fight in season 3 of Rebels...
He's like 0 for 3 against Dooku, but he was 3-1-1 against Maul and 1-0-1 against Vader (Vader killed him ANH, but I count a tie because OBK let him do it to motivate Luke )
@fascizio You're gonna make me rewatch Clone Wars again...so thanks for that.
Big fan of Rebels, but that fight scene was an abomination. Way too much history for them to settle it in 15 seconds.
Lol, my bad.
Yeah, that fight is interesting. I agree with your point on their history, the length certainly feels anticlimactic, but I was able to get over that watching OBK beat the move the killed QGJ with QGJ's style, I thought that was a pretty sweet callback.
To each their own though, I definitely see both sides with that fight.
Rebels is great for the callbacks and attention to tiny details. For as much flak as it gets, everyone involved really loves and knows SW.
Maybe it was my own fault, I went in expecting much more. Episodes of lead up spells out it's gonna be Maul's last fight, that Kenobi HAS to kill Maul because he just won't ever stop. They built up most of the season towards this inevitable epic battle that's over in "blink and you missed it" time. I did appreciate Kenobi's victory knowing Maul would use old tricks, I just wish it was his eventual victory, not his instant victory.
Especially on the heels of Ahsoka vs Vader, which had the same sort of building up towards an unavoidable confrontation feel to it, it just fell flat.
Edit- no need to appologise, CW is great. Been looking for a reason to binge through it again.
I believe it's because none of the Jedi were anti-sith. We would need more from the galactic civil war SWKOTR timeframe, when they were actively training to combat the Sith. Whereas those characters on the sith side that were mentioned were actively training to combat the Jedi. Plus, two of the toons you mentioned are the same guy. Vader has his because he actively hunted the Jedi. There was no Jedi, that are in the game, that did this. Mace had one encounter with the sith, and lost. If you read the book, EP played him the entire fight in order to secure Anakin's fall to the dark side.
I'll give you a lot of that, but the bolded part is not accurate. First, Lucas said Windu won. In absence of definitive evidence in source material, you gotta go with the creator's intention. Second, it specifically says in the novelization that Mace and Palpatine reached a point near the end of the fight where they were both so entrenched in their style and the force it could have gone on indefinitely with neither side giving way... had Vapaad been Mace's only talent. Had Anakin not betrayed him it is strongly implied that Mace would have found another shatterpoint in the moment and finished the fight. Instead he found Anakin and Palpatine was able to finish the job of turning him.
@Sawyerstooth I'll give you most of that. However while Kenobi had a great record VS Maul, he lost multiple times as well. Even in his victories he was often bailed out by Ani(and even Ventress). I'd gladly give him anti-Sith before anyone else, but it's still a stretch.
He only lost once, their first meeting post TPM, in a 1v2 versus Maul and Savage. He later escapes with Ventress's help. After that he won a 1v2 versus Maul and Savage after Opress killed Adi Gallia. Their final meeting during the clone wars OBK was captured by death watch and never crossed blades with Maul. Then of course there was the fight in season 3 of Rebels...
He's like 0 for 3 against Dooku, but he was 3-1-1 against Maul and 1-0-1 against Vader (Vader killed him ANH, but I count a tie because OBK let him do it to motivate Luke )
I believe it's because none of the Jedi were anti-sith. We would need more from the galactic civil war SWKOTR timeframe, when they were actively training to combat the Sith. Whereas those characters on the sith side that were mentioned were actively training to combat the Jedi. Plus, two of the toons you mentioned are the same guy. Vader has his because he actively hunted the Jedi. There was no Jedi, that are in the game, that did this. Mace had one encounter with the sith, and lost. If you read the book, EP played him the entire fight in order to secure Anakin's fall to the dark side.
I'm aware sidious and palpatine are the same person; my point was that there are several sith characters in this game with anti-Jedi traits. That's all well and good, but this game isn't exactly the best representation of Star Wars, and I was speaking more in support of balancing the factions than sticking to exact recreation of the Star Wars canon.
I always LOL when someone says Windu should be anti-Sith because he defeated Sidious...
Yeah, none are saying he should be anti-bounty hunter because he killed Jango ...
Windu DID NOT defeat Sidious. Palpy was simply playing with him until Anakin arrived. Check lore pls
Sorry, lore does not confirm what you say it does. From RoTS:
But there was still only the cycle of power, the endless loop, no wound taken on either side, not even the possibility of fatigue.
Impasse
Which might have gone on forever, if Vaapad were Mace's only gift. The fighting was effortless for him now; he let his body handle it without the intervention of his mind...Feeling for its shatterpoint. He found a knot of fault lines in [Palpatine's] future; he chose the largest fracture and followed it back to the here and now.
There is no definitive answer in canon either way - i.e. no omniscient narrative that confirms one way or the other - the novelization does strongly imply however that had Anakin not betrayed Mace, shatterpoint would have been the determining factor in the fight in Mace's favor.
I believe it's because none of the Jedi were anti-sith. We would need more from the galactic civil war SWKOTR timeframe, when they were actively training to combat the Sith. Whereas those characters on the sith side that were mentioned were actively training to combat the Jedi. Plus, two of the toons you mentioned are the same guy. Vader has his because he actively hunted the Jedi. There was no Jedi, that are in the game, that did this. Mace had one encounter with the sith, and lost. If you read the book, EP played him the entire fight in order to secure Anakin's fall to the dark side.
I'm aware sidious and palpatine are the same person; my point was that there are several sith characters in this game with anti-Jedi traits. That's all well and good, but this game isn't exactly the best representation of Star Wars, and I was speaking more in support of balancing the factions than sticking to exact recreation of the Star Wars canon.
I always LOL when someone says Windu should be anti-Sith because he defeated Sidious...
Yeah, none are saying he should be anti-bounty hunter because he killed Jango ...
Windu DID NOT defeat Sidious. Palpy was simply playing with him until Anakin arrived. Check lore pls
Lucas said he did, and you are claiming otherwise.
Humm, sure, lets take YOUR word for it.
I believe it's because none of the Jedi were anti-sith. We would need more from the galactic civil war SWKOTR timeframe, when they were actively training to combat the Sith. Whereas those characters on the sith side that were mentioned were actively training to combat the Jedi. Plus, two of the toons you mentioned are the same guy. Vader has his because he actively hunted the Jedi. There was no Jedi, that are in the game, that did this. Mace had one encounter with the sith, and lost. If you read the book, EP played him the entire fight in order to secure Anakin's fall to the dark side.
I'm aware sidious and palpatine are the same person; my point was that there are several sith characters in this game with anti-Jedi traits. That's all well and good, but this game isn't exactly the best representation of Star Wars, and I was speaking more in support of balancing the factions than sticking to exact recreation of the Star Wars canon.
I always LOL when someone says Windu should be anti-Sith because he defeated Sidious...
Yeah, none are saying he should be anti-bounty hunter because he killed Jango ...
Windu DID NOT defeat Sidious. Palpy was simply playing with him until Anakin arrived. Check lore pls
Sorry, lore does not confirm what you say it does. From RoTS:
But there was still only the cycle of power, the endless loop, no wound taken on either side, not even the possibility of fatigue.
Impasse
Which might have gone on forever, if Vaapad were Mace's only gift. The fighting was effortless for him now; he let his body handle it without the intervention of his mind...Feeling for its shatterpoint. He found a knot of fault lines in [Palpatine's] future; he chose the largest fracture and followed it back to the here and now.
There is no definitive answer in canon either way - i.e. no omniscient narrative that confirms one way or the other - the novelization does strongly imply however that had Anakin not betrayed Mace, shatterpoint would have been the determining factor in the fight in Mace's favor.
Replies
No, it really wasn't. For the majority of nearly every Jedi's life the Sith were thought to be extinct. The only in-game exceptions to this are possibly Yoda, Barris, Ahsoka, Kanan and Ezra. Yoda is old, and I don't believe we've gotten a new-cannon answer when/why the Sith went underground. Barriss, Ahsoka & Kanan weren't yet padawans when Maul showed up, Ezra wasn't even born.
They can't be anti-Sith, because there were "no" Sith. GK's line about "our specialty" was him talking out his behind, at that point he'd watched his master die to at a Sith's hand and killed exactly 0 himself.
In fact, throughout the entire new-cannon Sith kill scores of Jedi, and Kenobi & Ani(not even really a Jedi at that point) are the only 2 to take a Sith out.
Said the man who dies at the hands of a sith lord.
As far as anyone knew at that point, Maul was dead. GK wasn't talking out of his behind. He had gone head-to-head with the only other Sith they knew of, specifically, and won. In fact, Kenobi defeated Maul EVERY time they fought, even with Savage's help. And you can't claim "scores of Jedi vs 2 Sith," when there were literally only 2 Sith at a time. If you take that as percentages, it's like 98% Jedi vs 100% of Sith. Jedi win that argument every time.
I completely agree that there should be anti-Sith abilities to balance things out, but once you get zetas, the only one that will bother you is zMaul. I run a fast zQGJ, Aayla, Yoda, JKA, Ahsoka team. I look for zVader, EP, and DN leads. As long as I can get my Yoda to go 1st, I win. Every time. Tenacity Up negates zVader and EP, and DN lead teams are too slow.
Edit: Oh and remember Jango? Perfect example of my decapitation hypothesis.
I'm not even referencing lore (which others have touched on), but speaking to game balance. It doesn't make a lot of sense to have Jedi get bonuses against Sith and Sith get bonuses against Jedi. It's ideal to create strengths and weaknesses.
If only General Kenobi had some actual anti-Sith abilities.
Aside from his crit taunting, which sort of counters Sidious, I can't think of much.
Balance-wise, Yoda is already pretty anti-sith. Not explicitly so, but foresight and tenacity up are both great counters to many of the sith abilities. A zQGJ, zYoda team does quite fine vs. Sith. However this is quite clearly a conversation about flavor. Maul is a jedi-hunting Sith and thus does bonus damage to Jedi. Darth Sidious stayed well hidden from the Jedi council and gets bonus evasion vs. Jedi. Why not give GK bonus accuracy vs. Sith? Or better yet: in Mace rework, give him a chance to reflect damage from Sith back onto themselves (Vaapad!).
I'll give you a lot of that, but the bolded part is not accurate. First, Lucas said Windu won. In absence of definitive evidence in source material, you gotta go with the creator's intention. Second, it specifically says in the novelization that Mace and Palpatine reached a point near the end of the fight where they were both so entrenched in their style and the force it could have gone on indefinitely with neither side giving way... had Vapaad been Mace's only talent. Had Anakin not betrayed him it is strongly implied that Mace would have found another shatterpoint in the moment and finished the fight. Instead he found Anakin and Palpatine was able to finish the job of turning him.
He only lost once, their first meeting post TPM, in a 1v2 versus Maul and Savage. He later escapes with Ventress's help. After that he won a 1v2 versus Maul and Savage after Opress killed Adi Gallia. Their final meeting during the clone wars OBK was captured by death watch and never crossed blades with Maul. Then of course there was the fight in season 3 of Rebels...
He's like 0 for 3 against Dooku, but he was 3-1-1 against Maul and 1-0-1 against Vader (Vader killed him ANH, but I count a tie because OBK let him do it to motivate Luke
Big fan of Rebels, but that fight scene was an abomination. Way too much history for them to settle it in 15 seconds.
Lol, my bad.
Yeah, that fight is interesting. I agree with your point on their history, the length certainly feels anticlimactic, but I was able to get over that watching OBK beat the move the killed QGJ with QGJ's style, I thought that was a pretty sweet callback.
To each their own though, I definitely see both sides with that fight.
Maybe it was my own fault, I went in expecting much more. Episodes of lead up spells out it's gonna be Maul's last fight, that Kenobi HAS to kill Maul because he just won't ever stop. They built up most of the season towards this inevitable epic battle that's over in "blink and you missed it" time. I did appreciate Kenobi's victory knowing Maul would use old tricks, I just wish it was his eventual victory, not his instant victory.
Especially on the heels of Ahsoka vs Vader, which had the same sort of building up towards an unavoidable confrontation feel to it, it just fell flat.
Edit- no need to appologise, CW is great. Been looking for a reason to binge through it again.
This is very accurate.
Sorry, lore does not confirm what you say it does. From RoTS:
But there was still only the cycle of power, the endless loop, no wound taken on either side, not even the possibility of fatigue.
Impasse
Which might have gone on forever, if Vaapad were Mace's only gift. The fighting was effortless for him now; he let his body handle it without the intervention of his mind...Feeling for its shatterpoint. He found a knot of fault lines in [Palpatine's] future; he chose the largest fracture and followed it back to the here and now.
There is no definitive answer in canon either way - i.e. no omniscient narrative that confirms one way or the other - the novelization does strongly imply however that had Anakin not betrayed Mace, shatterpoint would have been the determining factor in the fight in Mace's favor.
Additionally Lucas said Mace won.
Lucas said he did, and you are claiming otherwise.
Humm, sure, lets take YOUR word for it.
Textual evidence can't be denied
Dooku would have killed him had Yoda not intervened. Dooku would have killed him again had Anakin not saved him. Vader did kill him. So...