Thrawn Lead Ruined with AI "Upgrade"
July 4, 2017 10:48AM
edited July 2017
When attacking a team with a zeta'd Nihilus unique (which applies health down at the start of each of your characters' turns, common in most top 10 teams)...
With the OLD AI and a fast Thrawn, he opens the match by swapping TM with Death Trooper, then Death Trooper sends in his AOE increasing the cooldowns of the opposing team. A solid start to any match.
Now, with the NEW AI, Thrawn swaps TM with Death Trooper who then just cleanses his health down debuff instead of attacking. First turn advantage is lost, the opposing team laughs and then proceeds to destroy the team.
I would honestly invest in a zeta for Thrawn's lead just to REMOVE the cleanse ability, it paralyses any Thrawn-led team with the constant cleansing activity (a job which can be done by GK's AOE far more efficiently).
@CG_Kozispoon if this was genuinely an attempt to improve Thrawn's AI, rather than a nerf, then it has failed spectacularly. Please revisit the cleansing and consider when it should be used, very few debuffs are worth wasting an entire turn to cleanse. Thrawn leadership is now a complete liability.
If this was in fact a nerf to Thrawn (as if he needed one) then it's working as intended.
With the OLD AI and a fast Thrawn, he opens the match by swapping TM with Death Trooper, then Death Trooper sends in his AOE increasing the cooldowns of the opposing team. A solid start to any match.
Now, with the NEW AI, Thrawn swaps TM with Death Trooper who then just cleanses his health down debuff instead of attacking. First turn advantage is lost, the opposing team laughs and then proceeds to destroy the team.
I would honestly invest in a zeta for Thrawn's lead just to REMOVE the cleanse ability, it paralyses any Thrawn-led team with the constant cleansing activity (a job which can be done by GK's AOE far more efficiently).
@CG_Kozispoon if this was genuinely an attempt to improve Thrawn's AI, rather than a nerf, then it has failed spectacularly. Please revisit the cleansing and consider when it should be used, very few debuffs are worth wasting an entire turn to cleanse. Thrawn leadership is now a complete liability.
If this was in fact a nerf to Thrawn (as if he needed one) then it's working as intended.
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Thrawn's lead is the direct counter to that Vader squad (I call it Vadawn) - it works until people realise that Thrawn neutralises the fast SA start completely (and, even before that, it only worked if you had the fastest SA).
@CG_Kozispoon can you either fix the lead
Thanks
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I believe the challenge is that health down is applied at 'start of turn', whereas Thrawn's cleanse is applied prior to their turn, so even if a toon has immediately been cleansed (by Thrawn) that toon can be immediately debuffed again (vs. zDN) before they take a move. With the change to AI mechanics, they now immediately cleanse rather than using a special as mentioned above.
Potential options could be to apply the cleanse after the TM swap i.e. TM swap, start-of-turn, Thrawn cleanse, or put the AI logic back which seemed to enable the toon to use its special if called in this manner.
Xio
to be fair, the adjustment was a response to players saying thrawn is horrible on def.
With the latest change, which is not mentioned in the notes (the priority part) this is a complete deal breaker for Thrawn leads. Shore doesn't put taunt up, deathtrooper doesn't use his grenade to CD increase when debuffed at the critical start of the battle. Considering zDN is a common factor in like 60% of top arena teams this is not something to simply overlook. Comments from shard mates changed from "Very difficult" to "Easy" overnight.
@CG_Kozispoon please raise this to the team to review! The majority of the changes are good, but this particular one needs to either be rolled back (if the technology does not allow it) or the AI has to deprioritize Maneuver. Many have invested zetas into Thrawn's lead which are now devalued if it is a liability on defense.
Outside of this ai error, id still agree dn needs to
Be redone.
Personally, I don't see Nihilis as the problem so much. With how difficult it can be to get Chaze down, I find Nihilis kind of a blessing although if the opponent's Nihilis goes first then it is often game over, so I agree with you that it can turn the tide a little too much. As a Nihilis lead user I mainly see Chaze as to blame. If Baze didn't taunt so much then it wouldn't be so bad, but he taunts whenever any one dies, and when Chirrut goes below 100% health. Sith Trooper's aoe will trigger Baze's taunt since it ignores protection, and same with Sith Assassin if you try to stun Chirrut. Nihilis is also the only one with a dispell, which is his basic, and this isn't much to work with against all the taunting, and buffs in general that Chaze, Rex, and Kenobi bring to the table. R2 D2's cloaking device just makes it worse when is in the combo. On top of that most Chaze combos also have a Nihilis in their team. I see it as quite imbalanced when light side have so many mass cleanses, and mass dispells. What do Sith have? Savage cleanses just one target at the end of his turn by taking the debuff himself, but that's it. I prefer teams with synergy. Unfortunately, the triple and quad cleanse teams are just hybrid teams cause Chaze, and Rex lead are so powerful and work in any team.
You mean the days of Landawiggs when the "strategy" was to one-shot everything and the person who had a faster Biggs/STHan won?
Please fix!