Mods and Protection Calculation

OnEMesSduPKiD

Hi all,

I have a question about how protection - for example - is calculated.

My FO Stormtrooper's base protection (without mods) is 25,335.
He gains 77.73% bonus protection on a percentage basis from primary and secondary mod stats.
He gains a flat 8692 protection from secondary mod stats.

His ending protection is 53,718.
That means the game applies the 77.73% first, and then adds the base protection.
(25335 x 1.7773) + 8692 = 53718

If the game applied base protection first, and then the percentage addition:
(25335 + 8692) x 1.7773 = 60,476 protection

Why does the game calculate stats this way? Can anyone think of a good reason? 6758 protection is a big difference over something so simple.

Kyno

Not sure about a good reason, but basically all mod stats are calculated off the base stats and added to the base. So no mod stat is used in the calculation.

They also only calculate off of the base stats of closed gear lvls, so any stat added by gear you can see is not used in mod calculations.

Waez

Because Mods and base stats are something different entirely.

It makes sense for mods to calculate their stats based on the base stats, and not calculate them based on the modded stats.

Why should mods synergize with their own bonuses?

Kyno

Waez wrote: »

Because Mods and base stats are something different entirely.

It makes sense for mods to calculate their stats based on the base stats, and not calculate them based on the modded stats.

Why should mods synergize with their own bonuses?

This is true but the flat bonuses could have been added in before % bonuses were calculated. That wouldn't be odd at all.

OnEMesSduPKiD

Kyno wrote: »

Waez wrote: »

Because Mods and base stats are something different entirely.

It makes sense for mods to calculate their stats based on the base stats, and not calculate them based on the modded stats.

Why should mods synergize with their own bonuses?

This is true but the flat bonuses could have been added in before % bonuses were calculated. That wouldn't be odd at all.

This is what I meant. Sorry if it was confusing.

Why is the percentage bonus added before the flat bonus, rather than the opposite? Flat bonus, then percentage bonus, yields higher end results.

DedrickRogue

OnEMesSduPKiD wrote: »

Kyno wrote: »

Waez wrote: »

Because Mods and base stats are something different entirely.

It makes sense for mods to calculate their stats based on the base stats, and not calculate them based on the modded stats.

Why should mods synergize with their own bonuses?

This is true but the flat bonuses could have been added in before % bonuses were calculated. That wouldn't be odd at all.

This is what I meant. Sorry if it was confusing.

Why is the percentage bonus added before the flat bonus, rather than the opposite? Flat bonus, then percentage bonus, yields higher end results.

Because you're thinking about it wrong. It's not applying the percentage boost then the other, it's adding them both to the base stat.

Be glad very glad. If it was the other instead of 90% of mods being useless it would be 99.9% of mods being trash, because nothing any set except speed would matter.

OnEMesSduPKiD

DedrickRogue wrote: »

OnEMesSduPKiD wrote: »

Kyno wrote: »

Waez wrote: »

Because Mods and base stats are something different entirely.

It makes sense for mods to calculate their stats based on the base stats, and not calculate them based on the modded stats.

Why should mods synergize with their own bonuses?

This is true but the flat bonuses could have been added in before % bonuses were calculated. That wouldn't be odd at all.

This is what I meant. Sorry if it was confusing.

Why is the percentage bonus added before the flat bonus, rather than the opposite? Flat bonus, then percentage bonus, yields higher end results.

Because you're thinking about it wrong. It's not applying the percentage boost then the other, it's adding them both to the base stat.

Be glad very glad. If it was the other instead of 90% of mods being useless it would be 99.9% of mods being trash, because nothing any set except speed would matter.

Well there are no 23.5% speed primaries like there are protection, so speed wouldn't benefit much if it was the other way around. Protection suffers the most, and I guess offense and health are hurt a good bit too.

Huatimus

He meant speed set mods farmed by resistance team. If game worked like you said, you'd add the +100 or so from speed secondaries to stats first then multiply by 10%, which gives easily 20 extra speed.

crzydroid

OnEMesSduPKiD wrote: »

DedrickRogue wrote: »

OnEMesSduPKiD wrote: »

Kyno wrote: »

Waez wrote: »

Because Mods and base stats are something different entirely.

It makes sense for mods to calculate their stats based on the base stats, and not calculate them based on the modded stats.

Why should mods synergize with their own bonuses?

This is true but the flat bonuses could have been added in before % bonuses were calculated. That wouldn't be odd at all.

This is what I meant. Sorry if it was confusing.

Why is the percentage bonus added before the flat bonus, rather than the opposite? Flat bonus, then percentage bonus, yields higher end results.

Because you're thinking about it wrong. It's not applying the percentage boost then the other, it's adding them both to the base stat.

Be glad very glad. If it was the other instead of 90% of mods being useless it would be 99.9% of mods being trash, because nothing any set except speed would matter.

Well there are no 23.5% speed primaries like there are protection, so speed wouldn't benefit much if it was the other way around. Protection suffers the most, and I guess offense and health are hurt a good bit too.

Protection may "suffer" the most for this, but it's also the one that gives you the biggest gains. It's really easy to mod a super tank like Baze or Shore with ridiculous amounts of protection.

I also imagine it would make things difficult for new players. A g6 toon with 300 flat protection would be able to increase that to 600. That could give a huge advantage to a level 50 player over a level 49 player, without putting the effort to get to purple gear.

OnEMesSduPKiD

Huatimus wrote: »

He meant speed set mods farmed by resistance team. If game worked like you said, you'd add the +100 or so from speed secondaries to stats first then multiply by 10%, which gives easily 20 extra speed.

It's only an extra 10 speed.

Not too big of a difference, but I understand your concern.

Dretzle

I would think it's just a way to prevent them from getting out of hand.

Pyrefly

Dretzle wrote: »

I would think it's just a way to prevent them from getting out of hand.

This. It's classic game balance 101. Stat synergy is something that's carefully monitored. Hard caps, soft caps, diminishing returns, additive vs. multiplicative values... Very few games are going to provide potentially synergistic bonuses like protection up and % protection up without making them separate.

Waez

OnEMesSduPKiD wrote: »

Huatimus wrote: »

He meant speed set mods farmed by resistance team. If game worked like you said, you'd add the +100 or so from speed secondaries to stats first then multiply by 10%, which gives easily 20 extra speed.

It's only an extra 10 speed.

Not too big of a difference, but I understand your concern.

There are people willing to pay hundreds of dollars for an extra 10 speed.

Kyno

Pyrefly wrote: »

Dretzle wrote: »

I would think it's just a way to prevent them from getting out of hand.

This. It's classic game balance 101. Stat synergy is something that's carefully monitored. Hard caps, soft caps, diminishing returns, additive vs. multiplicative values... Very few games are going to provide potentially synergistic bonuses like protection up and % protection up without making them separate.

Were you here for the original roll out of mods?

Pyrefly

Kyno wrote: »

Pyrefly wrote: »

Dretzle wrote: »

I would think it's just a way to prevent them from getting out of hand.

This. It's classic game balance 101. Stat synergy is something that's carefully monitored. Hard caps, soft caps, diminishing returns, additive vs. multiplicative values... Very few games are going to provide potentially synergistic bonuses like protection up and % protection up without making them separate.

Were you here for the original roll out of mods?

Yes, I was.
And when they fixed mods shortly after their release, they even stated:
"Another, very important, item of note for Mods: Percentage-based stats ONLY affect those gained through other progression means (Character Star Rarity, Levels, and Gear). They do not affect any stats gained through the Mod feature (meaning they do not compound with themselves)."

xanderxman

Calculating off of modded values would also make the order mods are applied matter. For example, let's say I have a character with 10,000 base protection and six mods I can apply. Three offer 1,000 flat protection and three offer 10% protection.

If you put on the three 10% protection mods first you would end up at 13,310 protection. Now add the three 1,000 flat protection mods and you are at 16,310 protection.

If you put the three flat 1,000 protection mods on first you are at 13,000 protection. Now add the three 10% protection mods and you end up at 17,303 protection.

And that is just an example of the base stat. Taking secondaries into account it would get even more convoluted.

Kyno

Pyrefly wrote: »

Kyno wrote: »

Pyrefly wrote: »

Dretzle wrote: »

I would think it's just a way to prevent them from getting out of hand.

This. It's classic game balance 101. Stat synergy is something that's carefully monitored. Hard caps, soft caps, diminishing returns, additive vs. multiplicative values... Very few games are going to provide potentially synergistic bonuses like protection up and % protection up without making them separate.

Were you here for the original roll out of mods?

Yes, I was.
And when they fixed mods shortly after their release, they even stated:
"Another, very important, item of note for Mods: Percentage-based stats ONLY affect those gained through other progression means (Character Star Rarity, Levels, and Gear). They do not affect any stats gained through the Mod feature (meaning they do not compound with themselves)."

I just mean to say, they had no interest in balance when they rolled out mods, so it's kinda funny to associate those 2 now.

Pyrefly

Kyno wrote: »

Pyrefly wrote: »

Kyno wrote: »

Pyrefly wrote: »

Dretzle wrote: »

I would think it's just a way to prevent them from getting out of hand.

This. It's classic game balance 101. Stat synergy is something that's carefully monitored. Hard caps, soft caps, diminishing returns, additive vs. multiplicative values... Very few games are going to provide potentially synergistic bonuses like protection up and % protection up without making them separate.

Were you here for the original roll out of mods?

Yes, I was.
And when they fixed mods shortly after their release, they even stated:
"Another, very important, item of note for Mods: Percentage-based stats ONLY affect those gained through other progression means (Character Star Rarity, Levels, and Gear). They do not affect any stats gained through the Mod feature (meaning they do not compound with themselves)."

I just mean to say, they had no interest in balance when they rolled out mods, so it's kinda funny to associate those 2 now.

What? They pushed the mod update out only a few days after mods were initially released. And from their own admission, when they tested the mods, they saw that they were relatively balanced when both sides were modded. They forgot to take into account, however, just how much of a difference a medium disparity in mods would actually cause, especially right at the level 50 mark where you had modded level 50s vs. unmodded level 49s, etc.
Getting something wrong and then fixing it immediately is not even remotely the same as having no interest in it in the first place.