Was TLJ the Right Step for the Franchise?
December 22, 2017 2:41PM
edited December 2017
Was TLJ the Right Step for the Franchise? 151 votes
Yes, the movie built on and improved the legacy of Star Wars
39%
60 votes
No, the movie divorced itself and detracted from the Star Wars Legacy
60%
91 votes
0
Replies
The big problem is that Star Wars is creatively bankrupt (especially in the direction the new films have taken it). “Star Wars” is not this huge diverse universe the fans have made it out to be. The original success of the franchise was built on fun, well paced adventures with likable characters, not the lore and rules of the universe. If you try to expand on those core characteristics (in films), you get nonsensical trash like the prequels.
If you try to make a star wars film that isn’t ultimately about a force sensitive protagonist who joins an underdog team of people rebelling against a massive force led by someone with a red lightsaber, then it won’t really feel like star wars (especially if it doesn’t have x wings, tie fighters, stormtroopers, lightsabers, etc).
The most interesting aspect of the star wars franchise has always been the testing of one’s moral code and thats been done to death (luke, anakin, obi wan, rey, kylo ren, etc). Without that, there is no conflict in the story.
TLDR: Overall I enjoy the new star wars films, but they shouldn’t exist and I’m just going to get star wars fatigue
I think they will end in Ep9 and that's part of why things went the way they did in TLJ. I'm sure Leia will die off screen due to Carrie Fisher's death. Ben/Ren will die battling Rey most likely. That's the end of the Skywalker bloodline and the end of the trilogy of trilogies. They can move on from there and expand the Star Wars galaxy as was somewhat touched on in TLJ. My biggest problem with Lucas is that he took a galaxy and kept shrinking it, everything had to be connected. TLJ started a bridge to help expand the galaxy. Hence Rey's parentage and that kid in the stables. While TLJ wasn't perfect, it did help the franchise for the future, maybe not the Skywalker saga (I'll have to see it more times to determine that), and help expand the galaxy more like it should be.
Agreed. The ending of TLJ sets episode 9 up to be incredibly boring and familiar. Kylo is evil, Rey is good, rebels are weak, empire is strong, blah blah blah. There’s nowhere for these characters to go unlike the ending of TFA. Episode 9 is likely to just have another superweapon because there’s not another source of conflict.
I use it quite often, but I assumed the people who opened this thread have already seen the movie. Still I'll edit it out.
During the movie first Luke talks with Rey about the past mistakes of the Jedi and how it lead to the reign of the Sith how the ideologies of the Ideologies created Vader and played a way to making Luke helping Snoke with the turning of Kylo, later in the movie Kylo mentions breaking off from the past letting the Sith and the Jedi die and bringing order to the galaxy through the First Order (with which I agree even though the actions they take are extreme but the republic is just doomed to fail all the time). What i believe would be the best to happen in the last film is for both Kylo and Rey to die and thus destroying what is portrayed as dark side and light side in the Star Wars universe.
True enough I guess
100% agree. I could rant for an hour and probably still miss something.
-Sun Tzu
I’m gonna try to see it again too
No edit can fix this.
On the one hand, I'm glad that it did away with dull setup from The Force Awakens that was just pushing the sequel trilogy to continue rehashing the originals or was otherwise looking predictable and weak, like Snoke (who was a blatant Palpatine ripoff from the moment he first appeared) or the "mystery" of Rey's parents which seemed like it was set up to turn out that she was Luke's daughter. Wish it could have gone further and also gotten rid of Kylo Ren so we could have a better villain, but I guess that was never going to happen.
But on the other hand, it didn't really replace that setup with anything, or provide much entertainment outside of burning down some of what TFA screwed up. And it instead went and screwed up Luke's character, basically invalidating the whole path that the original trilogy set him on by having him simply give up after his first big failure, and then removing any chance of him getting back on track by killing him in the end. I can't understate the extent to which that is not the sort of continuation of his story that I ever wanted to see.
So... on balance, more no than yes, I suppose. I mean, between this and TFA, I'm going to start treating Star Wars like DC superhero films: I'm only going to see Episode 9 if word of mouth on it turns out to be better than expected. Because the only post-Disney Star Wars film that has given me reason to believe the series will be worth watching is Rogue One, and that only gives me some confidence in the side-story films, not the mainline "Episodes."
I don't know, those guys are really creative. When the blu-rays get released with deleted/extended scenes and bonus material they take it and run. They go way beyond just deleting lame stuff. And who knows what footage they'll be able to take from Episode IX and cut into parts of VIII to make it make sense.
-Sun Tzu
I'd take a refund. Definitely won't be wasting my money to see the next one in theaters.
The Star Wars universe is about the dark and light side of the force, find a different universe to live without them.
No, the only review I heard before seeing it was from my brother, who loved it. I despise the film. I would take my money back and don't intend to see the next one. Probably will not see another SW movie while Kathleen Kennedy is in charge.
If the last Jedi was not covered in star wars branding and history it would be an even worse movie than it is. Star wars is a family franchise and is the wrong vehicle to push out political messages. Most parents want to take their kids and enjoy a simple movie, just like when they did when they were young and not have to explain what Pansexual means!
...Well, so long as those new actors look exactly like those toxic and loud fans.
Really? Since when? Unless you're saying a movie where a rag tag bunch of diverse freedom fighters rise up against an oppressive, genocidal, mono-ethnic regime isn't political?
And why have you got to explain what pansexuality means to your kids? They never said it in the movie. They never said what the relationship between Baze and Chirrut was. They never said if or why Luke never married. All of that was subtext that doesn't play into the story, but is there for folks to speculate on if that's what they want to do. It's there for the unseen to see if they would like, and for the seen to not care about if they don't.
If your kid got out of Solo and said, "Father, while the film was ongoing I was particularly interested in the socio-economic themes of class struggle within a **** dictatorship, but there was one thing that distracted me very much. What is 'Pansexuality?'" Then congratulations on your kid being open-minded and I look forward to when they get married to someone they love and you're seething in the background because you once had to explain to them that some people aren't hung up on the same things you are.
While I agree with you in general terms, one of the things I like most about the newer movies is that they explore what the force means to the average person. The first six movies were all from the top down--we see the galaxy through the eyes of jedi masters, sith usurpers, rebel generals, and so on. It isn't really until Rogue One that we see what things are like down at the bottom.
Moreover, the original and prequel trilogies are centered on force sensitive folks who have established ideologies to follow, and are rewarded with more force control for doing so. A jedi who sticks to the light will be a better jedi who can use the light side of the force more, a sith who sticks to the dark will be a sith that can shoot cool lightning bolts from their fingers. If I'm the non-force sensitive son of an unemployed shipbuilder on Corellia, I don't have that immediate reward feedback for my moral choices. If I do the light side thing and then just get shoved aside by some syndicate goons, I don't get to deflect blaster shots with my light saber. I love that Last Jedi and Solo explored the morality of the franchise without that conceit. I love that Rogue One wrestled with the morality of the early rebellion and what the whole point would be if they just followed Cassian's outlook from early in the movie.