It's fair to say the MM is not perfect. In aggregate it probably serves it's purpose, but there are a lot of glaring holes in the system. Comparing player by player is probably not as good as comparing guild to guild imo. Obviously that's an opinion since we can't base that on fact. I can see how matching 2 guilds that have 100m but one with 30 players and one with 50 would be a mismatch, but putting 2 guilds that have an equivalent number G12 players shouldn't be. In the lower tiers, I can understand the need to balance around guilds that aren't all at 50 members. But in the upper tiers, it probably should be based on 50 members (note that many guilds purposely run 48-49 to get an easier matchup). I'm sure they know a lot more about this than we do, but they also don't necessarily play this game every day either. We do. And I agree with the comments that they are just wasting everyone's time when they put these gross mismatches together. Many guilds like ours put almost as much (maybe more) time into TW preparation than they do actually playing the TW. I've been on both sides of, and I can tell you it is a huge let down on both sides. Not fun for anyone and a huge waste of the time and effort put into preparing for it.
And I agree with the comments that they are just wasting everyone's time when they put these gross mismatches together. Many guilds like ours put almost as much (maybe more) time into TW preparation than they do actually playing the TW. I've been on both sides of, and I can tell you it is a huge let down on both sides. Not fun for anyone and a huge waste of the time and effort put into preparing for it.
One other suggestion that would probably solve this over time. Just create a ladder system. Match teams based on their wins and losses and the ladder rating of the guilds in those wins and losses (how big of a win/loss perhaps also). Use the ladder system to rank guilds on the leaderboards
Just finishing one territory war where we failed to break even their first territory. The weakest defensive squad in the enemy first line was stronger than our strongest squad. 75% of their defensive units in the first territory were gear level 12+. 3% of ours were. And it's not like we saved everything for attack, since we weren't even able to defeat one of their territories.
We've been playing TW since the start and I think we've won once so far.
The matchmaking algorithm is clearly being thrown off by something in the makeup of our guild. Maybe lots of level 85 toons but few rare OP zeta-ed gear level 12+ toons. I'm not saying it's easy to fix but I wish the developers would take a look at why some guild are consistently mismatched and try to work out why their algorithm is failing so badly in these cases.
I fully agree that more matchmaking algorithm shouldnt be revealed as guilds will try to play the system.
I also understand that matchmaking is a dofficult topic. That being said it still feels flawed.
What for probably is barely reflected is the quality of mods. A 150m gp guild and a 170m gp guild may have a close match on meta toons and zetas, but there are huge differences in quality of speed mods.
While Gp is not the main paramater it is still an indicator for such stuff. Can a differende of 5m gp with good strategy overcome? I think so. 7-8m gp? Only if the opponent makes larger mistakes. More than 10m gp? Not really.
Considering that tw is currently the most work for guild officers, it can easily become the most frustrating with the current matchmaking. So i hope there is monitoring and adaption of the algorithm.
We play as a 45m guild always against 55m+ guilds. Its insanely fun. Minimum roster strength is 6000 per char, thus many chars of our type of guild will be "out". Its just utterly pointless to think a g12/zeta is worth 20000 strength and a simple g9 is worth 14000 strength. The whole mathematic doesnt show the real strength considering damage and protection/health of high teams. Those teams are the ones standing in defence and laughing at lower level guilds. Its no fight, its just a slaughter.
The whole calculation is simply bad and the matchmaking is non sense.
What is the problem of guilds in 5% range? There should be more than enough to choose from...
Every time there is a TW, the whining begins about matchmaking.....
A lot of folks seem to want the matchmaking to take into account synergies, number of zetS and omegas etc. Why should it?
If you and your guildmates have a whack of 6000 level gear 8 scrubs laying around with no synergies and haven't take the time to work on one squad at a time and out in the patience to collect and apply Zetas and omegas, then why do you expect to be rewarded with a win in TW?
You sound like the parents at my kid's school that don't want to count score and think they should hand out trophies and medals for participation.....
Every time there is a TW, the whining begins about matchmaking.....
A lot of folks seem to want the matchmaking to take into account synergies, number of zetS and omegas etc. Why should it?
If you and your guildmates have a whack of 6000 level gear 8 scrubs laying around with no synergies and haven't take the time to work on one squad at a time and out in the patience to collect and apply Zetas and omegas, then why do you expect to be rewarded with a win in TW?
You sound like the parents at my kid's school that don't want to count score and think they should hand out trophies and medals for participation.....
You really haven't been reading the entire thread...quit trolling or contribute something meaningful to this discussion.
Every time there is a TW, the whining begins about matchmaking.....
A lot of folks seem to want the matchmaking to take into account synergies, number of zetS and omegas etc. Why should it?
If you and your guildmates have a whack of 6000 level gear 8 scrubs laying around with no synergies and haven't take the time to work on one squad at a time and out in the patience to collect and apply Zetas and omegas, then why do you expect to be rewarded with a win in TW?
You sound like the parents at my kid's school that don't want to count score and think they should hand out trophies and medals for participation.....
You really haven't been reading the entire thread...quit trolling or contribute something meaningful to this discussion.
I read the whole thread.... And the half dozen others that get started every time there is a TW...
Quite frankly, it's a whole lot of people whining when they have no idea how this actually works....
If you need to fight as mostly g10 vs mostly g12 zeta you will loose? Hope you understand the peoples point more clearly now.
Or its like 15khp/protection vs 25khp/40k protection and more damage...even with better group layout you will get overpowered mostly. And this means you will loose - from start. Thats a fail matchmaking - which it certainly is at the moment.
Strength calculation inside this game is not working simply. Than they compete 25% different strength which in reality is more like double or triple more strong - and thats not working.
G12 Luke - 22k (zeta, god like mods)
G10 Luke? - 14k (no zeta, okay mods)
G12 Luke has like 35k prot and can most likely solo the whole g10 party - this is the real issue.
There is no need to have more than 5% difference in the TK for the majority of guilds (99%). The system right now is poor as it is no competition. Make it one! Make the teams more close to eachanother and not an instant loose because luck was not on your side. The teams we get surely laugh at the system and love it. No stress with a full g12 lineup, which we cant even break with our handful of g12 chars.../cheers
If you need to fight as mostly g10 vs mostly g12 zeta you will loose? Hope you understand the peoples point more clearly now.
Or its like 15khp/protection vs 25khp/40k protection and more damage...even with better group layout you will get overpowered mostly. And this means you will loose - from start. Thats a fail matchmaking - which it certainly is at the moment.
Yes..... If you don't prepare your troops, gear them up and train them and you go to war, you will likely lose...... That's kind of how it works...
If your guild mates are disorganized about their farming, are spreading themselves too thin and don't have solid squads, your guild will lose....
You can't expect matchmaking to make up for poor planning and a lack of patience....
Every time there is a TW, the whining begins about matchmaking.....
A lot of folks seem to want the matchmaking to take into account synergies, number of zetS and omegas etc. Why should it?
If you and your guildmates have a whack of 6000 level gear 8 scrubs laying around with no synergies and haven't take the time to work on one squad at a time and out in the patience to collect and apply Zetas and omegas, then why do you expect to be rewarded with a win in TW?
You sound like the parents at my kid's school that don't want to count score and think they should hand out trophies and medals for participation.....
You really haven't been reading the entire thread...quit trolling or contribute something meaningful to this discussion.
I read the whole thread.... And the half dozen others that get started every time there is a TW...
Quite frankly, it's a whole lot of people whining when they have no idea how this actually works....
No you didn't, because your answers are not even related to the real problem. You have no idea what people have worked on or what teams they put together. You are assuming everyone wants first place. Your simplistic answer that you need to have synergies, zetas and omegas is narrow sighted. No amount of zetas or omegas are ever going to make up for a 1,000 G12 toon deficiency.
My whole point is not to know (or care) about their algorithm, but that they acknowledge the algorithm is either:
A) broken by the grossly mismatched wars
or
That they think everything is good and are completely apathetic to their player base about the situation they are putting them in. (I.e. lack of gameplay and fun for both sides, which am sure is not happening for either side when it's that mismatched.)
If you need to fight as mostly g10 vs mostly g12 zeta you will loose? Hope you understand the peoples point more clearly now.
Or its like 15khp/protection vs 25khp/40k protection and more damage...even with better group layout you will get overpowered mostly. And this means you will loose - from start. Thats a fail matchmaking - which it certainly is at the moment.
Yes..... If you don't prepare your troops, gear them up and train them and you go to war, you will likely lose...... That's kind of how it works...
If your guild mates are disorganized about their farming, are spreading themselves too thin and don't have solid squads, your guild will lose....
You can't expect matchmaking to make up for poor planning and a lack of patience....
And what would you say to the guild that is 1,000 G12 toon underdogs? You argument makes no sense and is narrow sighted as to the real problem.
The mere fact that you can presume you know what people worked on, which synergies and zetas they have is of incredible poor judgment and I believe you are here just to troll.
If you need to fight as mostly g10 vs mostly g12 zeta you will loose? Hope you understand the peoples point more clearly now.
Or its like 15khp/protection vs 25khp/40k protection and more damage...even with better group layout you will get overpowered mostly. And this means you will loose - from start. Thats a fail matchmaking - which it certainly is at the moment.
Yes..... If you don't prepare your troops, gear them up and train them and you go to war, you will likely lose...... That's kind of how it works...
If your guild mates are disorganized about their farming, are spreading themselves too thin and don't have solid squads, your guild will lose....
You can't expect matchmaking to make up for poor planning and a lack of patience....
And what would you say to the guild that is 1,000 G12 toon underdogs? You argument makes no sense and is narrow sighted as to the real problem.
I would tell them they need more g12 toons.....
The point I am trying to make is most people and guilds that complain about TW matchmaking are their own worst enemy..... How many players get their toons to g8 and abandon that toon for the next one because they are "good enough" for events and they are jumping around farming multiple toons for multiple events?
All of those 6-7000 power toons get counted.... You know that Jedi consular you abandoned at 6300 when you realized how bad he was, he hurts you, take his mods off before TW so he drops below 6k...... TW, like everything else in this game rewards patience....
This is why you see so many posts of guilds actually beating much higher gp guilds as well....
Yes its narrow minded. Last tw was the nearest match we have had since forming in Jan. We have won 9 tw's and all against bigger GP guilds. However we more often that not lately are facing wars that are just totally unbalanced. We know we could build better have lots of better teams etc but that takes time, so why should we be facing a guild that has the better teams already?
So last tw was 2mil diff - they had upper hand in number of participants and GP. They had more of the better teams (not by much but was more), more gear 12, more zetas etc. As i state not by much but they where still the better guild. However due to our tactics we won the war easily. We didnt take down all their tiles though.
This war the GP difference is 23mil GP. They have 8 that never signed up we have 1. So they ahead on GP even with less participants.
They dont have 9 profiles on swgoh.gg but we have all:
Comparisons:
7* toons - 3030 to us - 3554 on there profiles so will be more. so roughly 600 more 7* toons to us
Gear 12 - 225 to us - 342+ to them - so at least 120 more gear 12 toons. So that at 20 teams per tile is a whole tile and spare change of gear 12 toons they can put down more than us.
Zeta's - 93 to us - 247+ to them.
How the above is considered a fair match i have no idea.
We dont want an easy war, far from it. We had some very exciting to the death, next kill wins type of wars before they messed with matchmaking, that was fun if we lost or won.
As stated even when it was exciting we was still the underdog. We dont mind being the underdog and like the challenge. What we dont like is having a war where we have no chance no matter what we do.
If you need to fight as mostly g10 vs mostly g12 zeta you will loose? Hope you understand the peoples point more clearly now.
Or its like 15khp/protection vs 25khp/40k protection and more damage...even with better group layout you will get overpowered mostly. And this means you will loose - from start. Thats a fail matchmaking - which it certainly is at the moment.
Yes..... If you don't prepare your troops, gear them up and train them and you go to war, you will likely lose...... That's kind of how it works...
If your guild mates are disorganized about their farming, are spreading themselves too thin and don't have solid squads, your guild will lose....
You can't expect matchmaking to make up for poor planning and a lack of patience....
And what would you say to the guild that is 1,000 G12 toon underdogs? You argument makes no sense and is narrow sighted as to the real problem.
I would tell them they need more g12 toons.....
The point I am trying to make is most people and guilds that complain about TW matchmaking are their own worst enemy..... How many players get their toons to g8 and abandon that toon for the next one because they are "good enough" for events and they are jumping around farming multiple toons for multiple events?
All of those 6-7000 power toons get counted.... You know that Jedi consular you abandoned at 6300 when you realized how bad he was, he hurts you, take his mods off before TW so he drops below 6k...... TW, like everything else in this game rewards patience....
This is why you see so many posts of guilds actually beating much higher gp guilds as well....
So you assertion is it's the player bases fault?!? What you are missing out of the entire thread and point of the discussion is that it is not just on the player base to just "get more G12 toons"...but rather the matchmaking is grossly unbalanced and that they seem apathetic to the situation.
What i really wanted out of all of this is for them to acknowledge that either:
A) it's broken
or
that this is WAI and you will get extraordinary bad matchups and they are ok with ruining the player experience.
Unfortunately your argumentation is not exisiting. To get better is inside a progressing game a permanent process.
To make it very clear for you:
The matchmaking lets play in our case 40-45 mio against 55-60 mio guilds.
G10 char - 14k points
G12 char - 20k points
So its same as fighting with g10 squads vs g12 squads. If you understand that the point system doesn't properly shows the real difference between the power - than maybe now you hopefully are enlightened!
You will not win - unless the other does major mistakes. And thats not called a matchmaking. Its same as trying to race a F1 car with a Civic Type R/random sport car...you will loose unless the other driver makes a mistake.
And thats the only point people have here - the matchmaking should be way more close and not that far off.
If you need to fight as mostly g10 vs mostly g12 zeta you will loose? Hope you understand the peoples point more clearly now.
Or its like 15khp/protection vs 25khp/40k protection and more damage...even with better group layout you will get overpowered mostly. And this means you will loose - from start. Thats a fail matchmaking - which it certainly is at the moment.
Yes..... If you don't prepare your troops, gear them up and train them and you go to war, you will likely lose...... That's kind of how it works...
If your guild mates are disorganized about their farming, are spreading themselves too thin and don't have solid squads, your guild will lose....
You can't expect matchmaking to make up for poor planning and a lack of patience....
And what would you say to the guild that is 1,000 G12 toon underdogs? You argument makes no sense and is narrow sighted as to the real problem.
I would tell them they need more g12 toons.....
The point I am trying to make is most people and guilds that complain about TW matchmaking are their own worst enemy..... How many players get their toons to g8 and abandon that toon for the next one because they are "good enough" for events and they are jumping around farming multiple toons for multiple events?
All of those 6-7000 power toons get counted.... You know that Jedi consular you abandoned at 6300 when you realized how bad he was, he hurts you, take his mods off before TW so he drops below 6k...... TW, like everything else in this game rewards patience....
This is why you see so many posts of guilds actually beating much higher gp guilds as well....
So you assertion is it's the player bases fault?!? What you are missing out of the entire thread and point of the discussion is that it is not just on the player base to just "get more G12 toons"...but rather the matchmaking is grossly unbalanced and that they seem apathetic to the situation.
What i really wanted out of all of this is for them to acknowledge that either:
A) it's broken
or
that this is WAI and you will get extraordinary bad matchups and they are ok with ruining the player experience.
I'm asserting that, if these guilds that are complaining about matchmaking were more organized about their farming, they would get better results in TW..... Using strategy would help too.
1- If the guild you are facing has more G12 toons, set up lots of defence, if they are using them to attack they can only use them once....
2- Be smart about how your defence is set up, don't put all strong in front etc....
If you need to fight as mostly g10 vs mostly g12 zeta you will loose? Hope you understand the peoples point more clearly now.
Or its like 15khp/protection vs 25khp/40k protection and more damage...even with better group layout you will get overpowered mostly. And this means you will loose - from start. Thats a fail matchmaking - which it certainly is at the moment.
Yes..... If you don't prepare your troops, gear them up and train them and you go to war, you will likely lose...... That's kind of how it works...
If your guild mates are disorganized about their farming, are spreading themselves too thin and don't have solid squads, your guild will lose....
You can't expect matchmaking to make up for poor planning and a lack of patience....
And what would you say to the guild that is 1,000 G12 toon underdogs? You argument makes no sense and is narrow sighted as to the real problem.
I would tell them they need more g12 toons.....
The point I am trying to make is most people and guilds that complain about TW matchmaking are their own worst enemy..... How many players get their toons to g8 and abandon that toon for the next one because they are "good enough" for events and they are jumping around farming multiple toons for multiple events?
All of those 6-7000 power toons get counted.... You know that Jedi consular you abandoned at 6300 when you realized how bad he was, he hurts you, take his mods off before TW so he drops below 6k...... TW, like everything else in this game rewards patience....
This is why you see so many posts of guilds actually beating much higher gp guilds as well....
So you assertion is it's the player bases fault?!? What you are missing out of the entire thread and point of the discussion is that it is not just on the player base to just "get more G12 toons"...but rather the matchmaking is grossly unbalanced and that they seem apathetic to the situation.
What i really wanted out of all of this is for them to acknowledge that either:
A) it's broken
or
that this is WAI and you will get extraordinary bad matchups and they are ok with ruining the player experience.
I'm asserting that, if these guilds that are complaining about matchmaking were more organized about their farming, they would get better results in TW..... Using strategy would help too.
1- If the guild you are facing has more G12 toons, set up lots of defence, if they are using them to attack they can only use them once....
2- Be smart about how your defence is set up, don't put all strong in front etc....
Little things make a big difference in TW
You don't get it. and would also guess your guild is in the 100M range, where making small tweaks and defensive setups make a difference. Not arguing that point at all. Smarter GP will always win....
BUT....the little things wont matter when you face guilds that have 1,000 G12 more toons.
Bottom line: it's broken and would love to hear back from CG on this one.
This just absolutely proves you don't understand the issue here.
We have perfect tactics that win against bigger guilds most of the time when the difference is reasonable (within 15mil bracket is the best we done, that guild was actually a TB guild with inflated GP).
When you are talking that the average GP diff between is 500k difference that is a huge difference.
Look at the figures posted.
They have more gk 7*, more hans 7*, more jtr's etc etc etc.
More and more of everything.
No MATTER how we setup, where we put things, what we do, with the difference we have received, we will NOT win.
Let’s just be frank about this and admit this game mode is not balanced not competitive and not worth arguing over about the matchmaking algorithm. It is alarming that there so few good close matches.
If you want a good algorithm:
Count G12, G11, G10, G9, G8 toons together...than watch at the opposite guild. G12 and G11 toons should be very close to each another as they can fully block out G10 and under in defensive. Not difficult and most likely the guild gp will also be very close to each another anyways - just right now it isn't which is the major problem.
My friends guild with 110m gp also plays vs 130m-140m (of course loose) or 80m (of course win). Both are a perfect example of bad matchmaking. The game is able to have a good matchmaking - just its not wanted from the devs. As the loosers should go and rampage with real $ inside the shop. But its very silly as it takes away fun from the game. And even I spent more than 1000$ inside this game - i will never buy for such a shabby reason. If I want and spend - i do it because I have fun doing so.
Only one solution:
Very close gp guild matchmaking and check between g12 and g11 chars alone would be enough most likely to get a similar match and this means exciting match in which strategy will matter. Hope dies last - as always.
We are 19-4 in TW. Three of the 4 losses we have been destroyed because we were paired against guilds 20M GP higher with just their top half members registering. I don't get why guild can't be paired like the rewards brackets: 70-79M, 80-89M, 99-109M, etc. Just pair the dam guilds within 10M GP- why are you punishing guilds that are well organized when you pair them up against 20M higher GP.
Today we lost against a 141 GP. My guild consists of active 53 GP.
I know it's in every game but the difference is too big in another SW game. SW Force Arena has a bigger difference in ranks than here in GP. So I don't want to fully complain here but for SW Force Arena by netmarble.
Even matching player by player isn't the answer, you can have the same "GP" and still be out matched due to lower skilled toons but many vs fewer higher toons with zatas and still have close to the same GP. If the toons we're all equal and RNG didn't decide to favor one you would both win or both draw. The problem I encounter is a miss match in the squads the GP. I have say 85k squad I vs a 80-85k squad but the zatas win on the other team. Regardless of higher GP. I see this most often but matching says "yeah that's fair it is equal or close to equal". Now repeat this every war..always out matched..but the system shows fair. Maybe you should take in account total number if Zatas on opposite team and then the win/loss records of the competing guild as well as GP. A Zata team vs a team with gear is still mismatched. And 30 people vs 40 people with same GP is still unfair match due to the 30 having the ability to form more powerful squads then the 40 combined.
Matching by GP, and deducing mismatches based on GP, is ridiculous. That's why it's a passive metric.
Surprisingly, if the algorithm was performing perfectly, the mean win percentage would be closer to .50. None of the anecdotal evidence shared here demonstrates that the win/loss percentage is outside expectations. Until there is true population data, or an verifiable sample size to show otherwise, I'll accept that the system is working as best as it can.
So this is what we learned about our last match up.
The guild we fought was 90 mil GP. We are 62 mil. 44/50 of our players signed up and they had 25/50. So our 44 players at 58 mil GP was matched with 25 players from their side with matching or close to 58 mil GP. They cleared the board; we got 1st upper node cleared and the 2nd upper node 9/17. Lower 1st node was 9/17 cleared. Average teams in their nodes were all GS12, 90-100k teams.
Many of our defensive battles were 3 or 4 attempts by them but most were 1 shot. If you can use that data great.
EA, would you kindly listen to the players? This is simply ridiculous. Our guild GP is 85M and we're matched against a 116M guild. A 31M difference. The opponent has 12 7* g12 JTRs, we have 5. Opponent has 33 7* g12 EP, we have 16. They have 44 7* g12 CLS, and we have 35.
I can't wrap my head around this crappy algorithm. For ****'s sake. Fire the turds that came up with this and write something that actually works. How can this be failing so miserably?
This isn't even the first time that this has happened to us. Matchups like this destroy morale. People want to quit. People hate the game. People feel like EA isn't listening, because hey, they're not.
I used to spend money on the game but since this pathetic algorithm came along and EA ignored complaints, I haven't dropped a dime.
Replies
THIS x 1,000,000,000,000
We've been playing TW since the start and I think we've won once so far.
The matchmaking algorithm is clearly being thrown off by something in the makeup of our guild. Maybe lots of level 85 toons but few rare OP zeta-ed gear level 12+ toons. I'm not saying it's easy to fix but I wish the developers would take a look at why some guild are consistently mismatched and try to work out why their algorithm is failing so badly in these cases.
I also understand that matchmaking is a dofficult topic. That being said it still feels flawed.
What for probably is barely reflected is the quality of mods. A 150m gp guild and a 170m gp guild may have a close match on meta toons and zetas, but there are huge differences in quality of speed mods.
While Gp is not the main paramater it is still an indicator for such stuff. Can a differende of 5m gp with good strategy overcome? I think so. 7-8m gp? Only if the opponent makes larger mistakes. More than 10m gp? Not really.
Considering that tw is currently the most work for guild officers, it can easily become the most frustrating with the current matchmaking. So i hope there is monitoring and adaption of the algorithm.
The whole calculation is simply bad and the matchmaking is non sense.
What is the problem of guilds in 5% range? There should be more than enough to choose from...
A lot of folks seem to want the matchmaking to take into account synergies, number of zetS and omegas etc. Why should it?
If you and your guildmates have a whack of 6000 level gear 8 scrubs laying around with no synergies and haven't take the time to work on one squad at a time and out in the patience to collect and apply Zetas and omegas, then why do you expect to be rewarded with a win in TW?
You sound like the parents at my kid's school that don't want to count score and think they should hand out trophies and medals for participation.....
You really haven't been reading the entire thread...quit trolling or contribute something meaningful to this discussion.
I read the whole thread.... And the half dozen others that get started every time there is a TW...
Quite frankly, it's a whole lot of people whining when they have no idea how this actually works....
Or its like 15khp/protection vs 25khp/40k protection and more damage...even with better group layout you will get overpowered mostly. And this means you will loose - from start. Thats a fail matchmaking - which it certainly is at the moment.
G12 Luke - 22k (zeta, god like mods)
G10 Luke? - 14k (no zeta, okay mods)
G12 Luke has like 35k prot and can most likely solo the whole g10 party - this is the real issue.
There is no need to have more than 5% difference in the TK for the majority of guilds (99%). The system right now is poor as it is no competition. Make it one! Make the teams more close to eachanother and not an instant loose because luck was not on your side. The teams we get surely laugh at the system and love it. No stress with a full g12 lineup, which we cant even break with our handful of g12 chars.../cheers
Yes..... If you don't prepare your troops, gear them up and train them and you go to war, you will likely lose...... That's kind of how it works...
If your guild mates are disorganized about their farming, are spreading themselves too thin and don't have solid squads, your guild will lose....
You can't expect matchmaking to make up for poor planning and a lack of patience....
No you didn't, because your answers are not even related to the real problem. You have no idea what people have worked on or what teams they put together. You are assuming everyone wants first place. Your simplistic answer that you need to have synergies, zetas and omegas is narrow sighted. No amount of zetas or omegas are ever going to make up for a 1,000 G12 toon deficiency.
My whole point is not to know (or care) about their algorithm, but that they acknowledge the algorithm is either:
A) broken by the grossly mismatched wars
or
And what would you say to the guild that is 1,000 G12 toon underdogs? You argument makes no sense and is narrow sighted as to the real problem.
The mere fact that you can presume you know what people worked on, which synergies and zetas they have is of incredible poor judgment and I believe you are here just to troll.
I would tell them they need more g12 toons.....
The point I am trying to make is most people and guilds that complain about TW matchmaking are their own worst enemy..... How many players get their toons to g8 and abandon that toon for the next one because they are "good enough" for events and they are jumping around farming multiple toons for multiple events?
All of those 6-7000 power toons get counted.... You know that Jedi consular you abandoned at 6300 when you realized how bad he was, he hurts you, take his mods off before TW so he drops below 6k...... TW, like everything else in this game rewards patience....
This is why you see so many posts of guilds actually beating much higher gp guilds as well....
So last tw was 2mil diff - they had upper hand in number of participants and GP. They had more of the better teams (not by much but was more), more gear 12, more zetas etc. As i state not by much but they where still the better guild. However due to our tactics we won the war easily. We didnt take down all their tiles though.
This war the GP difference is 23mil GP. They have 8 that never signed up we have 1. So they ahead on GP even with less participants.
They dont have 9 profiles on swgoh.gg but we have all:
Comparisons:
7* toons - 3030 to us - 3554 on there profiles so will be more. so roughly 600 more 7* toons to us
Gear 12 - 225 to us - 342+ to them - so at least 120 more gear 12 toons. So that at 20 teams per tile is a whole tile and spare change of gear 12 toons they can put down more than us.
Zeta's - 93 to us - 247+ to them.
How the above is considered a fair match i have no idea.
We dont want an easy war, far from it. We had some very exciting to the death, next kill wins type of wars before they messed with matchmaking, that was fun if we lost or won.
As stated even when it was exciting we was still the underdog. We dont mind being the underdog and like the challenge. What we dont like is having a war where we have no chance no matter what we do.
So you assertion is it's the player bases fault?!? What you are missing out of the entire thread and point of the discussion is that it is not just on the player base to just "get more G12 toons"...but rather the matchmaking is grossly unbalanced and that they seem apathetic to the situation.
What i really wanted out of all of this is for them to acknowledge that either:
A) it's broken
or
Unfortunately your argumentation is not exisiting. To get better is inside a progressing game a permanent process.
To make it very clear for you:
The matchmaking lets play in our case 40-45 mio against 55-60 mio guilds.
G10 char - 14k points
G12 char - 20k points
So its same as fighting with g10 squads vs g12 squads. If you understand that the point system doesn't properly shows the real difference between the power - than maybe now you hopefully are enlightened!
You will not win - unless the other does major mistakes. And thats not called a matchmaking. Its same as trying to race a F1 car with a Civic Type R/random sport car...you will loose unless the other driver makes a mistake.
And thats the only point people have here - the matchmaking should be way more close and not that far off.
Have a decent evening!
I'm asserting that, if these guilds that are complaining about matchmaking were more organized about their farming, they would get better results in TW..... Using strategy would help too.
1- If the guild you are facing has more G12 toons, set up lots of defence, if they are using them to attack they can only use them once....
2- Be smart about how your defence is set up, don't put all strong in front etc....
Little things make a big difference in TW
You don't get it. and would also guess your guild is in the 100M range, where making small tweaks and defensive setups make a difference. Not arguing that point at all. Smarter GP will always win....
BUT....the little things wont matter when you face guilds that have 1,000 G12 more toons.
Bottom line: it's broken and would love to hear back from CG on this one.
We have perfect tactics that win against bigger guilds most of the time when the difference is reasonable (within 15mil bracket is the best we done, that guild was actually a TB guild with inflated GP).
When you are talking that the average GP diff between is 500k difference that is a huge difference.
Look at the figures posted.
They have more gk 7*, more hans 7*, more jtr's etc etc etc.
More and more of everything.
No MATTER how we setup, where we put things, what we do, with the difference we have received, we will NOT win.
If might differs by over 25% it will never work.
If you want a good algorithm:
Count G12, G11, G10, G9, G8 toons together...than watch at the opposite guild. G12 and G11 toons should be very close to each another as they can fully block out G10 and under in defensive. Not difficult and most likely the guild gp will also be very close to each another anyways - just right now it isn't which is the major problem.
My friends guild with 110m gp also plays vs 130m-140m (of course loose) or 80m (of course win). Both are a perfect example of bad matchmaking. The game is able to have a good matchmaking - just its not wanted from the devs. As the loosers should go and rampage with real $ inside the shop. But its very silly as it takes away fun from the game. And even I spent more than 1000$ inside this game - i will never buy for such a shabby reason. If I want and spend - i do it because I have fun doing so.
Only one solution:
Very close gp guild matchmaking and check between g12 and g11 chars alone would be enough most likely to get a similar match and this means exciting match in which strategy will matter. Hope dies last - as always.
I know it's in every game but the difference is too big in another SW game. SW Force Arena has a bigger difference in ranks than here in GP. So I don't want to fully complain here but for SW Force Arena by netmarble.
Surprisingly, if the algorithm was performing perfectly, the mean win percentage would be closer to .50. None of the anecdotal evidence shared here demonstrates that the win/loss percentage is outside expectations. Until there is true population data, or an verifiable sample size to show otherwise, I'll accept that the system is working as best as it can.
What do you need.. screenshots..video..Or would you come back and say it was isolated. How can we help you?
The guild we fought was 90 mil GP. We are 62 mil. 44/50 of our players signed up and they had 25/50. So our 44 players at 58 mil GP was matched with 25 players from their side with matching or close to 58 mil GP. They cleared the board; we got 1st upper node cleared and the 2nd upper node 9/17. Lower 1st node was 9/17 cleared. Average teams in their nodes were all GS12, 90-100k teams.
Many of our defensive battles were 3 or 4 attempts by them but most were 1 shot. If you can use that data great.
I can't wrap my head around this crappy algorithm. For ****'s sake. Fire the turds that came up with this and write something that actually works. How can this be failing so miserably?
This isn't even the first time that this has happened to us. Matchups like this destroy morale. People want to quit. People hate the game. People feel like EA isn't listening, because hey, they're not.
I used to spend money on the game but since this pathetic algorithm came along and EA ignored complaints, I haven't dropped a dime.