Sith Triumvirate: The Real Problem (IMO)
I've read a lot and given this a lot of thought, and this is what I've come up with.
The main problem with the raid, at least for sub-Heroic guilds, is that it's always active. When's the last time you had a day where you didn't have a Sith raid active, with 5 hits to do each and every single day? Sometimes 10 when it was defeated and started again? Ideally, such an important guild event would take place a couple of days a week, at most. This way, it would remain exciting for those participating, instead of the endless grind it has become.
Everyone I know autos 4 out of their 5 battles, on average. Even my guild leader has a note telling everyone to make sure to use their 5 attacks and auto them if needed. This is representative of how tired we all are of fighting the same battles each and every day.
It really is such a shame, because the battles in this raid are more innovative and interesting than anything we've seen so far.
There are undoubtedly solutions for this. One solution would be to require an unlock for each tier, say, clearing the previous tier in under 2 days. Another would be to set a time limit on all difficulties. I'm sure you can come up with something better than what I can come up with.
Find a way to prevent us from running this raid every single day of our lives, and you'll undoubtedly increase player interest in the raid and its offerings.
p.s. I read that once you can beat tier 6 without wasting tickets, you can beat heroic - this seems quite unbalanced and I truly hope it isn't so.
The main problem with the raid, at least for sub-Heroic guilds, is that it's always active. When's the last time you had a day where you didn't have a Sith raid active, with 5 hits to do each and every single day? Sometimes 10 when it was defeated and started again? Ideally, such an important guild event would take place a couple of days a week, at most. This way, it would remain exciting for those participating, instead of the endless grind it has become.
Everyone I know autos 4 out of their 5 battles, on average. Even my guild leader has a note telling everyone to make sure to use their 5 attacks and auto them if needed. This is representative of how tired we all are of fighting the same battles each and every day.
It really is such a shame, because the battles in this raid are more innovative and interesting than anything we've seen so far.
There are undoubtedly solutions for this. One solution would be to require an unlock for each tier, say, clearing the previous tier in under 2 days. Another would be to set a time limit on all difficulties. I'm sure you can come up with something better than what I can come up with.
Find a way to prevent us from running this raid every single day of our lives, and you'll undoubtedly increase player interest in the raid and its offerings.
p.s. I read that once you can beat tier 6 without wasting tickets, you can beat heroic - this seems quite unbalanced and I truly hope it isn't so.
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Tbh, there was a moment, when we thought about doing the sith raid manually again. That happened when they increased currency rewards and made everyone receive the same prize box. But whe we received rewards we found them nerfed drastically, and a half of the guild just reverted to autoplay. But then devs reverted back to previous rewards, and now everyone autoplays again. What to say? I hope devs will figure out finally, that rewards we receive for the Sith Raid are not worth the effort of manual play, moreover, when they nerf all strategies players find on the way.
Yes, i'm aware of how certain teams have been drafted to work with them, but they all feel almost like exploiting because of how specific they are in function, and how next to no variance is allowed in these compositions
Stacking speed and tenacity aren't bad mechanics, but they are WAY overtuned, the speed isnt actually that bad, i'd lower it JUST a smidge (10, or 5 less speed per hit recieved), but 50% extra tenacity is TOO MUCH, one hit makes it VERY difficult to stick anything, TWO makes it impossible.
That's without touching the amount of health we have to carve through.
Honestly, I think the worst problem is Nihilus. The man so specifically counters every option but irresistible debuffs that there just aren't good strategies left.
You can't beat him by debuffing him unless they're irresistible debuffs, because high base tenacity and stacking tenacity.
You can't beat him by buffing your guys because he eats buffs.
You can't do death by a thousand cuts because he has regenerating protection.
Basics are a liability because you do it once, and for the next two turns unless you cleanse, you give him protection back, and his potency is high enough that getting enough tenacity to reliably resist his defense down isn't practical, and there are very few methods to practically cleanse that fast enough.
That means you have to rely on specials, but that doesn't work reliably either, because he has AoE cooldown increase.
Nihilus is such an incredibly unsatisfying fight that shuts down almost every team so absolutely. It's incredibly frustrating and unsatisfying.
I'm used to get so "rage quit" angry by my 15th restart that i just started autoing everything.
This is a good point. The most boring part of the raid is Nihilus. If they nerf him, it wil be a good start on improving raid's playability.
Guild leadership needs to stop pushing players into the top tier which requires the guild to constantly be engaged in STR. As mentioned, the rewards aren't that great. So why not just do a couple of T5's or T4's and then drop down to T2 or T3 a couple of times so players get a break? You still get currency.
A lot of the "problems" people state about the raid are just the same game play challenges we've all encountered in previous raids and / or are the result of poor guild leadership. Please please please stop forcing your players into constantly playing STR.
PS - I also think health on the raids should be dropped another 10% across all non-heroic tiers, but the bigger problem is people launching the most difficult raid their guild can complete without wasting tickets over and over and over again. Don't blame the game for poor leadership.
Cannot agree with this. How it works in our guild:
We are not forcing anyone to play STR. We discuss it with everyone, and try to find a better tier to accomplish. First we tried lower tiers of the raid, aka 2,3 and rewards were just ridiculous. Absolutely useless gear for us. And 3rd tier was the one, which still takes less time to finish than to collect back spent raid tickets. From the other hand, tier 4 takes double time to accomplish(compared to 3), so our raid tickets stuck at 150k, but it gives good rewards, like carbanti 3, stun guns 5, holoprojectors 3, etc.. That is the gear everyone need. So there is no point in doing tier 3, if it was even 3 times easier.
1st and 4th phases of the raid are boring anyway, not depending on the tier you are playing. Also player loses only 10-20% damage by autoplaying these phases instead of playing them manually. And it is not a big payout for not getting bored by broken mechanics.
Mechanics aren't fun, they're annoying.
That line of thinking is exactly what's going to lead to burnout. My point was very simple, the gear rewards aren't good. Run a couple at the max tier you can complete and then run a couple of them at a lower tier simply for the currency. If everyone in your guild is onboard with constantly running Tier 4 without a break in play, good on you, but then don't let me catch you posting that players are "burned out"
Also, you can buy all of those with guild currency. So, if you're able to burn down tickets in Tier 2 or Tier 3, you actually get more currency which equals more rewards. You're leaving raid gear on the table with your method.
No and no. We calculated even this. Guild currency does not fix anything. You cannot buy all the gear you receive for completing tier 4 using that bonus amount of currency(the difference is about 1000 guild tokens), which comes from completing tier 3 twice.
And again, the reason people autoplays 1st and 4th phase is because of boring Nihilus. It is two different reasons why players do not care much about new raid.
You said you were constantly sitting at 150k tickets. If you're wasting tickets, you're wasting currency. Your calculations are wrong.
My calculations are just fine. I dont see any calculations from you though, which prove that my calculations are wrong.
Lack of proof isn't proof. The fact that he doesn't have numbered calculations doesn't matter, he's clearly showing you that, with the very same calculations you're providing, you have made an error. As TVF mentioned in reference to Rebel_yell, if you're wasting tickets (sitting at 150k), you're wasting currency. It's a simple concept.
We are legit trying to help you. Let us.
That is the problem, it is a "simple concept", it prevents you from turning on your brain and trying to understand what I have written in previous comment.
Do not turn on your herd instinct. I am still waiting for your calculations.
Tier 1 (10m each phase?, lvl40, gear 5) = AAT (about same hp all phases, meant for lvl80, gear 8) this would be insane grind for lvl50 toons with gear 5
Tier 2 (20m each phase?, lvl50, gear 6)
Tier 3 (40m each phase?, lvl60, gear 7) = each phase one full AAT (rewards are lvl70 gear, and less tokens, credits)
Tier 4 (80m each phase?, lvl70, gear 8)
Tier 5 (160m each phase?, lvl75, gear 9)
Tier 6 (320m each phase?, lvl80, gear 10)...its just insane amount of hp
Tier 7 (m? each phase, lvl85, gear 11+)
Its no fun to play against a huge hp pool for endless days. It only favours in the end autoplay and thats it - the opposite the developers intended to do.
If you play manually you will notice the following:
All fights - no debuffs stuck reliable, unless unresistable effects from a handful of chars
Phase 1 - debuffs are completely random, so how many reduction to his annihilate he will receive you will not know if he increased your cooldowns before and your team is forced to use the standard attack, can be very frustrating fight if you really try your best
Phase 2 - good fight concept, difficult for debuff tanks like sion to land your taunt on him
Phase 3 - disaster as fight, if swords get foresight you are half jinxed, if you fight against her and the swords land a debuff on your riposting char she will nearly solo till enrage as she will remove your tm permanently
Phase 4 - combines all phases and the result is with all 3 up its just a random mess of doing damage or getting quick dispatched
Is this raid the one the players really wanted to have - i am certainly not sure and i do not believe the hitpoints pool matches the effort in any way. Its just feels like a time sink and no fun at all. Its neither hard, its just random without my post being a random rant
Make the fight more suiting and the extra clicks way more "strong" if you intend to nerf the autoplay function - thats fine. Just for the sake of the fun for all players - nerf the insane hitpoints pool (i think x10 less would fit the reward), let some effect land on the boss and make more teams viable.
Likewise. Show your math or go away. You’re interfering with rational discussions.
In his defence, you haven't shared your calculations either.
For what it's worth, i think you're right. I haven't done any calculations myself, nor do i have the information needed to do the calculations. Depending on how many tickets you actually waste, it's probably not worth doing more tier 3 raids of instead of fewer tier 4 raids.
tier 4 rewards are just way better than tier 3 rewards. Maybe it's even more beneficial to day a tier 1 every once in a while to grab rewards for the tickets you've otherwise would have wasted due to the ticket cap, but continue doing tier 4 most of the time.
Again, i haven't done any calculations, nor do i have the information to do them, so i could be wrong.
I need to emphasize that I'm not telling anyone to solely run T3. My argument is that you can run T4's and T3's to maximize ticket production / spend and prevent burnout.
NP mate, I will provide you with full calculations, after several hours. Got to play football this evening
Tier 2 - 1050 tokens (+14% to previous tier)
Tier 3 - 1200 tokens (+14% to previous tier)
Tier 4 - 1375 tokens (+ 14.5% to previous tier)
Tier 5 - 1650 tokens + 430 tokens = 2080 tokens (+51% to previous tier)
Tier 6 - 1925 tokens + 500 tokens = 2425 tokens (+16.5% to previous tier)
Tier 7 - ? + Traya totally OP shards (if you will manage this, you will not want to do tier 6 anyways)
The % behind shows the waste in tokens vs the previous tier for the same token rewards. Additionally you need to add the upgraded lootbox items. I suppose you can "waste" about 15%+10%-20% from the upgraded lootbox for all tiers. Exceptions is between 4th and 5th tier as it will increase by 51%+10%-20% from the upgraded lootbox.
Yup. And right now the waste in tickets is about 46,000 in the scenario we've been discussing (~38%). I calculated this based on 4 days to complete T4 versus 2 days to complete T3. Based on the posters description that it takes twice as long to complete T4 as T3.
What is difficult to "weight" in all of these calculations is the probability that someone is getting stun guns or cuffs in their T4 loot box. You can't really assign a value to replacing those missed pieces via guild currency because you have no way to knowing if you would have received them as awards (guild wide).
stun cuffs/stun gun/carbantis
You could use the following formula:
56 tokens = 1 salvage (as for the most bought and needed materials)
Additionally the full drop (maybe 1 - 5% chance, which requires 50-120 pieces...but its a very rare chance so you may also can leave this one out even it has a big influence to the whole calculation, but due to its randomness its not known when it will pay out and if you will get anything you actually need)
Have fun!
Here's the core of the issue:
There are player playing that started a week ago. Some a month ago. Others a year ago and others 2 years ago. Still others that started at launch. On top of all of that, you have all of those variations with varying levels of players who spend money (and at each entry point).
While they have tried, for most events, to create content that is interesting and a challenge for people at most of those "entry points", it was quite difficult. Often, even the highest tiers are easy(ish) for launch whales, while even the lowest tiers are often difficult for newer players - especially if they haven't yet farmed the characters to which the content is aimed.
All of this is only exacerbated by the fact the various events, and raids especially are maximixed for certain teams (Rancor to TM manipulation teams, AAT to hard hitting teams, Sith to JTRey and g12, etc.) I realize that certain characters (JTRey, CLS, etc.) are useful across all raids, however most newer players don't have all of the Hero's Journey characters, special event characters etc.
It seems clear that they attempted to build the STR with some longevity in mind - meaning, that even player who have been playing for a year+ would still find it quite difficult, and only the veteran players and whales who have extremely deep rosters (either from playing for 2+ years or paying significant sums of money - or both) would be able to beat it at the highest levels.
This has lead to situation where, it seems, there are many players who have been playing for a year or more who have, for the first time, run into content they can't beat or even compete at on the highest tiers.
Again, this is not CG's fault - they are trying to design content that won't be easily auto'd in a week or two by a majority of players. It's not always an enjoyable realization, but it might be that this particular raid (or at least the tier you are fighting) is just a little beyond your roster at this point. Trying to allow everyone to participate is a double edged sword.
People would flip if the STR simply didn't allow guilds that were below a certain total GP to participate. And yet, lower level guilds are frustrated because they have a hard time with, what is clearly designed to be, near end-game content (at this point).
TL;DR: Not all content is designed for every layer of player - that's almost impossible. Especially as the range (and thus roster differential) gets larger over time. The STR is clearly intended for the highest, longest playing players (and by that I mean players that have been playing for 2+ years). So it's not going to be as pleasant an experience if you are not "there" yet.
In game guild: TNR Uprising
I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
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