I actually think there is a deeper issue with Sith Triumverate Raid in general - and it really isn't CG's fault.
Here's the core of the issue:
There are player playing that started a week ago. Some a month ago. Others a year ago and others 2 years ago. Still others that started at launch. On top of all of that, you have all of those variations with varying levels of players who spend money (and at each entry point).
While they have tried, for most events, to create content that is interesting and a challenge for people at most of those "entry points", it was quite difficult. Often, even the highest tiers are easy(ish) for launch whales, while even the lowest tiers are often difficult for newer players - especially if they haven't yet farmed the characters to which the content is aimed.
All of this is only exacerbated by the fact the various events, and raids especially are maximixed for certain teams (Rancor to TM manipulation teams, AAT to hard hitting teams, Sith to JTRey and g12, etc.) I realize that certain characters (JTRey, CLS, etc.) are useful across all raids, however most newer players don't have all of the Hero's Journey characters, special event characters etc.
It seems clear that they attempted to build the STR with some longevity in mind - meaning, that even player who have been playing for a year+ would still find it quite difficult, and only the veteran players and whales who have extremely deep rosters (either from playing for 2+ years or paying significant sums of money - or both) would be able to beat it at the highest levels.
This has lead to situation where, it seems, there are many players who have been playing for a year or more who have, for the first time, run into content they can't beat or even compete at on the highest tiers.
Again, this is not CG's fault - they are trying to design content that won't be easily auto'd in a week or two by a majority of players. It's not always an enjoyable realization, but it might be that this particular raid (or at least the tier you are fighting) is just a little beyond your roster at this point. Trying to allow everyone to participate is a double edged sword.
People would flip if the STR simply didn't allow guilds that were below a certain total GP to participate. And yet, lower level guilds are frustrated because they have a hard time with, what is clearly designed to be, near end-game content (at this point).
TL;DR: Not all content is designed for every layer of player - that's almost impossible. Especially as the range (and thus roster differential) gets larger over time. The STR is clearly intended for the highest, longest playing players (and by that I mean players that have been playing for 2+ years). So it's not going to be as pleasant an experience if you are not "there" yet.
That's what I read into the next content release. My guess is their data shows their retention rate for players has dropped so they're going to help guide newbies a bit better. Good for the game.
@leef
5 days for tier 4 - we stuck on 150k tickets for one day, so we can run one after another.
3 days for tier 3 - we spend tickets faster than receive daily, but it doesnt matter, I dont want to make a stress on this weakness. My first discount to trolls. Lets just compare rewards.
so we can complete tier 3 raid 66% faster than tier 4. Lets be exact and compare rewards for 1st place for both tiers and multiply tier 3 rewards by 166%(5/3) to match the same amount.
Lets convert GC, Credits and Gear cost to Crystals to have one currency for all.
2 GC = 1 Crystal (price comparison from credit and GC shipments for gear only, shards cost less in GC)
1k Credits = 1 Crystal (price comparison from the shop). Actually you can receive more money by spending crystals. But let it be my second discount to trolls.
Tier 4 rewards:
1375 GC ~ 687 Crystals
475k Credits = 475 Crystals
~42 lvl8 gear parts (famous rare gear a.k.a. Carbanti mk3, Stun Cuffs MK3, Stun Gun MK5, Syringe MK6, Furnace MK5 and so on.) 28 crystals per part in the shop. = 1176 Crystals
Total: 2338 Crystals
Tier 3 rewards:
1200 GC * 1.66 = 1992 GC = 996 Crystals
375k Credits * 1.66 = 623 к = 623 Crystals
~42 lvl7 gear parts (very common useless gear, with an exception of Holo Projector MK3) 15 crystals per part in the shop = 630 Crystals
Total: 2249 Crystals
So we have 2338 vs. 2249 Crystals
Not considering the fact, that by empiric research we see that Tier 4 rewards are useful for 90% players, But tier 3 only for 30%. You cannot compare that common rewards to all these Stun guns an Carbanti's, but let it be my 3rd discount to trolls.
Interesting converting it all into crystals. I hadn't thought to do that.
Focusing primarily on currency earned, and giving the benefit of the doubt that the average raid participant receives 680 GC in useful gear drops from T4 as opposed to T3, I calculated a net difference of about 15,000 GC running exclusively T3 over the course of the year, or 1250 a month. I also based my calculations on completing Tier 4 in 4 days and Tier 3 in 2 days based on previous comments. This also doesn't account for a optimization model given that you'd spend down T3 tickets faster and have a gap between raid starts.
I don't think we'll ever see eye-to-eye on this given the multiple variables and randomness of rewards. I simply prefer not to grind every day on the same raid and pick my rewards. So I would choose getting more GC over your model, but it's your guild.
Happy hunting.
PS - one day you'll return to the light and realize you were the only one in this conversation calling people names.
I've been playing one year now and am doing great in T4. Our guild tried T5 and it took us a week, I think my roster is ready for it but many others aren't, so we went back down to T4.
I actually think there is a deeper issue with Sith Triumverate Raid in general - and it really isn't CG's fault.
Here's the core of the issue:
There are player playing that started a week ago. Some a month ago. Others a year ago and others 2 years ago. Still others that started at launch. On top of all of that, you have all of those variations with varying levels of players who spend money (and at each entry point).
While they have tried, for most events, to create content that is interesting and a challenge for people at most of those "entry points", it was quite difficult. Often, even the highest tiers are easy(ish) for launch whales, while even the lowest tiers are often difficult for newer players - especially if they haven't yet farmed the characters to which the content is aimed.
All of this is only exacerbated by the fact the various events, and raids especially are maximixed for certain teams (Rancor to TM manipulation teams, AAT to hard hitting teams, Sith to JTRey and g12, etc.) I realize that certain characters (JTRey, CLS, etc.) are useful across all raids, however most newer players don't have all of the Hero's Journey characters, special event characters etc.
It seems clear that they attempted to build the STR with some longevity in mind - meaning, that even player who have been playing for a year+ would still find it quite difficult, and only the veteran players and whales who have extremely deep rosters (either from playing for 2+ years or paying significant sums of money - or both) would be able to beat it at the highest levels.
This has lead to situation where, it seems, there are many players who have been playing for a year or more who have, for the first time, run into content they can't beat or even compete at on the highest tiers.
Again, this is not CG's fault - they are trying to design content that won't be easily auto'd in a week or two by a majority of players. It's not always an enjoyable realization, but it might be that this particular raid (or at least the tier you are fighting) is just a little beyond your roster at this point. Trying to allow everyone to participate is a double edged sword.
People would flip if the STR simply didn't allow guilds that were below a certain total GP to participate. And yet, lower level guilds are frustrated because they have a hard time with, what is clearly designed to be, near end-game content (at this point).
TL;DR: Not all content is designed for every layer of player - that's almost impossible. Especially as the range (and thus roster differential) gets larger over time. The STR is clearly intended for the highest, longest playing players (and by that I mean players that have been playing for 2+ years). So it's not going to be as pleasant an experience if you are not "there" yet.
I dont think the reason is that content is not intended for everyone. CG brings in common mistake - "extremely bloated HP". Actually it is a very common mistake amond developers, which has little experience. I had to work with some previously. When it is their first game, and they try to make it "fun" they start bloating HP of every enemy, instead of creating decent mechanics. They think it is "hardcore", and they actually dont see any difference between "boring stuff", which takes unnecessarily large amount of time to complete, and "hardcore stuff", where logic, reaction and planning could help you to do better. "Hardcore stuff" can be completed faster, when you improve you personal experience, "boring stuff" is just boring, it takes the same amount of time, and the player cannot influence it by any mean. Thats all we need to know.
By playing on tier 4 all my teams live till the moment Raid boss going nuts. It means, that my teams are good enough to do something decent, bu they dont. If I lost my characters in progress, I would understand that they are not good enough. But they live till the end, and they do less than 1% of damage. It is ridiculous.
I would even understand them, if they would bring "enrage" two times faster, for the 7th turn instead of 14th, but cut down HP of all phases 3 times.
Another solution to make it fun instead of boring:
increase influence of newly introduced mechanics - that big buttons with protection, etc. But yet - cut down HP 2-3 times. Give players a chance to make a mistake, to realise it and fix it. There is nothing worse than feeling, that the situation is not under your control, and devs just force you to spend hours to do unnecessary routine.
The raid should be doable within 1 day for a full sized actively played guild within the level range. Hard is not huge hitpoints pool - thats just boring as someone mentioned here before.
The hitpoints could drop by 5-10 times and the clicks could be more of a changer. So it cant be automatic played for bigger success.
By playing on tier 4 all my teams live till the moment Raid boss going nuts. It means, that my teams are good enough to do something decent, bu they dont. If I lost my characters in progress, I would understand that they are not good enough. But they live till the end, and they do less than 1% of damage. It is ridiculous.
This just means you're using the wrong teams. I'm also doing T4. Just as an example, everyone hates P1 right? Let's put aside JTR, assuming you don't have her. I can do around 2% to 3% with each of my other teams (NS, Rebels, Zader, IT). They all live to enrage.
I know you'll say that's still not enough, but this is a guild event, and it's meant for the whole guild to take it down. We finish T4 in 1-1/2 to 2 days, so we can relaunch it every three days. As long as we are beating in in less than three days, we are able to keep running it as often as that. If your guild is taking too long, move down a tier. If you're beating it in hours, move up a tier.
A guild should be able to run whatever tier raid they want to run. But I think it would be a useful to put some kind of warnings into the game if a guild is launching a tier they probably cannot do.
Example: Have our holotable tutor lady pop up and give them a talking to if they are entering into a tier that will crush their hopes and dreams. Each guild member should see this warning upon entering the raid for the first time since it was launched. Make sure they understand that this is higher level content and they just are not ready, but proceed if they want to. Give the option to dismiss her warning straight away, and disable the warning if the guild manages to defeat the tier in a timely fashion.
Indeed it would be very difficult to introduce content like this with tiers tuned for all player levels. Need to somehow manage players' expectations about what they think they should be able to do and what they are really capable of doing. With the HAAT raid, they punted on multi-level tuning and just gave us two levels: normal soul-destroying level, and heroic coming-of-age level. This was not well received; players asked for the more lower tiers, just so they could play the raid without it feeling like a hopeless slog. Players wanted to play it at an easier level even if the rewards were worthless.
Now they gave us the Sith raid with multi-level tuning so lower power players can participate in the raid before they are ready, earning worthless rewards upon completion. Oh, I guess this is not good enough either. Imagine the moaning if there were only two STR levels like HAAT.
Now they gave us the Sith raid with multi-level tuning so lower power players can participate in the raid before they are ready, earning worthless rewards upon completion. Oh, I guess this is not good enough either. Imagine the moaning if there were only two STR levels like HAAT.
That's something I found upsetting about HAAT. Some young guilds have that window where they can do heroic rancor more or less reliably through concerted effort, but can hardly scratch tier 6 tank. I always felt it should have lower tiers for junior guilds.
-First, increase the rewards across the board (except for Traya shards maybe) and make them much closer to what the rewards were when they bumped it.
-Raise the starting cost in tickets like 50%
This gives you a raid that 1) provides valuable rewards so players want them and 2) isn't constantly running.
No one wants to sit every day on this raid simply as it is. This type of game doesnt need raids take that long. The raids can be restarted to allow infinity attempts, have giant hp pools to give imagination of "skill" needed and the abilities are mostly just random of the enemies. There is no real challenge except managing this huge pool within the given time with the right team layout (other teams do instantly 1/5 - 1/10 of a good team). While I can respect the last part, i cannot understand the hitpoint pool under heroic stage 7 (its just a blatant waste of time). And most guilds do the raid far below their equipment level and so the loot boxes do not reflect the time in any piece.
No one wants to sit every day on this raid simply as it is. This type of game doesnt need raids take that long.
Speak for yourself.
First off I spoke for myself, but used a dramatic element to express my thoughts.
Just look around of the excitement most people have from this raid - not much at all.
I have played a long time in Everquest at its prime. With real great and long raids. Some have been a very high skill level needed. But it was not one raid for 3 - 4 days. The longest boss I remember was the Queen of Air and Avatar of Earth - taking like 3 hours on first kill. But thats it! You only needed them to do once or twice for the key and no one ever returned for doing their loot.
Even those games were way more difficult to built up a raid team - they understood no one wants to sit night and day on the same boss. The mechanic basically makes you need a very certain line up and only than you do some real damage - thats why all lower guilds do not have either the line up or the damage and in the end sit days at the raid.
If you have fun with the great mechanic in p1 and p4 and enjoy the endless amount of hitpoints and think thats skill needed for bringing a specific group layout - than be it so! Its your good right. However I have the opinion of the majority and dislike this raid being a time sink. I dislike every day doing my 2.5m - 10m dmg and getting a crap reward after 3-4 days. But thats again my good right!
You completely dismissed TVF's point, and that's wrong.
You do not speak for me. You do not speak for TVF. You do not speak for leef. You especially don't speak for everyone. That is offensive to the people you claim to speak on who don't want you speaking for them.
Yes, it's a rhetorical technique. It's a bad and incredibly rude rhetorical technique that should be removed from your arsenal. As a technique in forum debate, it doesn't build bridges. It polarizes. It agitates those you just spoke for into opposing you more viciously, and only serves in preaching to the choir.
You completely dismissed TVF's point, and that's wrong.
You do not speak for me. You do not speak for TVF. You do not speak for leef. You especially don't speak for everyone. That is offensive to the people you claim to speak on who don't want you speaking for them.
Yes, it's a rhetorical technique. It's a bad and incredibly rude rhetorical technique that should be removed from your arsenal. As a technique in forum debate, it doesn't build bridges. It polarizes. It agitates those you just spoke for into opposing you more viciously, and only serves in preaching to the choir.
I am telling you to stop speaking for me.
lol tears. Tell us more about how you like the sith raid....
No one wants to sit every day on this raid simply as it is. This type of game doesnt need raids take that long. The raids can be restarted to allow infinity attempts, have giant hp pools to give imagination of "skill" needed and the abilities are mostly just random of the enemies. There is no real challenge except managing this huge pool within the given time with the right team layout (other teams do instantly 1/5 - 1/10 of a good team). While I can respect the last part, i cannot understand the hitpoint pool under heroic stage 7 (its just a blatant waste of time). And most guilds do the raid far below their equipment level and so the loot boxes do not reflect the time in any piece.
Have fun. On the day Sith raid is off...
+ for this point if I understand what you mean. I see your message was heavily warped(or misunderstood). I hope you mean "majority" dont want to do that. And I agree, none of my guildies want to do that, and my friends from other guilds dont want to waste thier time for miserable rewards too. I dont know a single masochist as it seems. Lets hope for a rework. Maybe one day...
No one wants to sit every day on this raid simply as it is. This type of game doesnt need raids take that long. The raids can be restarted to allow infinity attempts, have giant hp pools to give imagination of "skill" needed and the abilities are mostly just random of the enemies. There is no real challenge except managing this huge pool within the given time with the right team layout (other teams do instantly 1/5 - 1/10 of a good team). While I can respect the last part, i cannot understand the hitpoint pool under heroic stage 7 (its just a blatant waste of time). And most guilds do the raid far below their equipment level and so the loot boxes do not reflect the time in any piece.
Have fun. On the day Sith raid is off...
+ for this point if I understand what you mean. I see your message was heavily warped(or misunderstood). I hope you mean "majority" dont want to do that. And I agree, none of my guildies want to do that, and my friends from other guilds dont want to waste thier time for miserable rewards too. I dont know a single masochist as it seems. Lets hope for a rework. Maybe one day...
Thankfully you understood my post. Apparently English is my 5th language - so it becomes a little bit more difficult to precisely tell (or how in different languages its possible) the main point without being misunderstood. Of course if we go in details its never "everyone" and everyone speaks just for "himself alone" - but this simply didn't sound exciting for me.
So for the previous posters - i can just tell by my own that i think this raid is "rubbish".
Newest Sith Raid
-too high hp (x10 too much)
-random mechanic (commonly need to restart, if you try to have a good run)
-t6 have x3 hp of t7? and rewards of t7 is far superior (so much more work for less, that reminds me on cleaning women in hotels which i always leave a good tip!)
-resist mechanic is bad, bosses should be tmr immune and thats it (makes sense actually)
+cool characters
+cool graphic
+p2 and p3 are pretty fine (dont like the need of tenacity up in p3 or being it very random)
-even Traya is stunning foresight chars like jrey they fully dominate, so the conter mechanic in latest Sith/Anti Sith edition doesnt work (see Visas Marr - which doesnt work at all with a debuff on her, fighting Sith all have debuffs! Its simply just rubbish)
No one wants to sit every day on this raid simply as it is. This type of game doesnt need raids take that long. The raids can be restarted to allow infinity attempts, have giant hp pools to give imagination of "skill" needed and the abilities are mostly just random of the enemies. There is no real challenge except managing this huge pool within the given time with the right team layout (other teams do instantly 1/5 - 1/10 of a good team). While I can respect the last part, i cannot understand the hitpoint pool under heroic stage 7 (its just a blatant waste of time). And most guilds do the raid far below their equipment level and so the loot boxes do not reflect the time in any piece.
Have fun. On the day Sith raid is off...
+ for this point if I understand what you mean. I see your message was heavily warped(or misunderstood). I hope you mean "majority" dont want to do that. And I agree, none of my guildies want to do that, and my friends from other guilds dont want to waste thier time for miserable rewards too. I dont know a single masochist as it seems. Lets hope for a rework. Maybe one day...
it's not getting reworked.
Powercreep will take care of most players their issues with the raid. Hopefully, because of the design of the raid people seem to dislike so much, we've got a long road ahead of us with gradually increasing scores.
The rancor became too easy too soon. Currently it might aswell be sim-able. I think the hAAT raid was pretty good in that regard. Took my guild a while before we could tackle it, with most of my guildies really disliking p1 (untill zkylo came along) and it took top players a long time before they were able the solo the entire raid.
Point being, just because it sucks now, doesn't mean it's a horrible raid. As i said in a previous comment in this thread, the health of non-heroic tiers makes for an unfun experience imo. The rewards don't help either, but that has nothing to do with the raid itself. People just rather player horrible content for great rewards than awesome content for horrible rewards. Unfortunately players still tend to say the content is horrible just because it isn't rewarding enough in their opinion. In general i think players blame the wrong thing for something they don't enjoy alot on this forum.
No one wants to sit every day on this raid simply as it is. This type of game doesnt need raids take that long. The raids can be restarted to allow infinity attempts, have giant hp pools to give imagination of "skill" needed and the abilities are mostly just random of the enemies. There is no real challenge except managing this huge pool within the given time with the right team layout (other teams do instantly 1/5 - 1/10 of a good team). While I can respect the last part, i cannot understand the hitpoint pool under heroic stage 7 (its just a blatant waste of time). And most guilds do the raid far below their equipment level and so the loot boxes do not reflect the time in any piece.
Have fun. On the day Sith raid is off...
+ for this point if I understand what you mean. I see your message was heavily warped(or misunderstood). I hope you mean "majority" dont want to do that. And I agree, none of my guildies want to do that, and my friends from other guilds dont want to waste thier time for miserable rewards too. I dont know a single masochist as it seems. Lets hope for a rework. Maybe one day...
it's not getting reworked.
Powercreep will take care of most players their issues with the raid. Hopefully, because of the design of the raid people seem to dislike so much, we've got a long road ahead of us with gradually increasing scores.
The rancor became too easy too soon. Currently it might aswell be sim-able. I think the hAAT raid was pretty good in that regard. Took my guild a while before we could tackle it, with most of my guildies really disliking p1 (untill zkylo came along) and it took top players a long time before they were able the solo the entire raid.
Point being, just because it sucks now, doesn't mean it's a horrible raid. As i said in a previous comment in this thread, the health of non-heroic tiers makes for an unfun experience imo. The rewards don't help either, but that has nothing to do with the raid itself. People just rather player horrible content for great rewards than awesome content for horrible rewards. Unfortunately players still tend to say the content is horrible just because it isn't rewarding enough in their opinion. In general i think players blame the wrong thing for something they don't enjoy alot on this forum.
Yes mate, it is all about time. What is the most valuable thing in our lives? Right.
"Enormously bloated HP" - that is what I said previously too. The raid is not hard at all, it is just boring because of nerfed tactics and gigantic health points.
I dont know why you are so sure about it not getting a rework though. Do you have some kind of connection to devs, or another source of information or is it just a logic/intuition thing?
just a logic/intuition thing. I do not consider lowering the health for non-heroic tiers a "rework" though. While i doubt they'll do it, it still in the realm of possibility (again, just a logic/intuition thing).
Obviously i could be wrong and i shouldn't have stated it as fact. Sorry about that. I do however think it's better to accept it won't get reworked and if by some miracle they actually do rework the raid being pleasantly suprised about that than hoping for a rework in vain.
Replies
That's what I read into the next content release. My guess is their data shows their retention rate for players has dropped so they're going to help guide newbies a bit better. Good for the game.
Interesting converting it all into crystals. I hadn't thought to do that.
Focusing primarily on currency earned, and giving the benefit of the doubt that the average raid participant receives 680 GC in useful gear drops from T4 as opposed to T3, I calculated a net difference of about 15,000 GC running exclusively T3 over the course of the year, or 1250 a month. I also based my calculations on completing Tier 4 in 4 days and Tier 3 in 2 days based on previous comments. This also doesn't account for a optimization model given that you'd spend down T3 tickets faster and have a gap between raid starts.
I don't think we'll ever see eye-to-eye on this given the multiple variables and randomness of rewards. I simply prefer not to grind every day on the same raid and pick my rewards. So I would choose getting more GC over your model, but it's your guild.
Happy hunting.
PS - one day you'll return to the light and realize you were the only one in this conversation calling people names.
Seems about right to me.
I dont think the reason is that content is not intended for everyone. CG brings in common mistake - "extremely bloated HP". Actually it is a very common mistake amond developers, which has little experience. I had to work with some previously. When it is their first game, and they try to make it "fun" they start bloating HP of every enemy, instead of creating decent mechanics. They think it is "hardcore", and they actually dont see any difference between "boring stuff", which takes unnecessarily large amount of time to complete, and "hardcore stuff", where logic, reaction and planning could help you to do better. "Hardcore stuff" can be completed faster, when you improve you personal experience, "boring stuff" is just boring, it takes the same amount of time, and the player cannot influence it by any mean. Thats all we need to know.
By playing on tier 4 all my teams live till the moment Raid boss going nuts. It means, that my teams are good enough to do something decent, bu they dont. If I lost my characters in progress, I would understand that they are not good enough. But they live till the end, and they do less than 1% of damage. It is ridiculous.
I would even understand them, if they would bring "enrage" two times faster, for the 7th turn instead of 14th, but cut down HP of all phases 3 times.
Another solution to make it fun instead of boring:
increase influence of newly introduced mechanics - that big buttons with protection, etc. But yet - cut down HP 2-3 times. Give players a chance to make a mistake, to realise it and fix it. There is nothing worse than feeling, that the situation is not under your control, and devs just force you to spend hours to do unnecessary routine.
The hitpoints could drop by 5-10 times and the clicks could be more of a changer. So it cant be automatic played for bigger success.
This just means you're using the wrong teams. I'm also doing T4. Just as an example, everyone hates P1 right? Let's put aside JTR, assuming you don't have her. I can do around 2% to 3% with each of my other teams (NS, Rebels, Zader, IT). They all live to enrage.
I know you'll say that's still not enough, but this is a guild event, and it's meant for the whole guild to take it down. We finish T4 in 1-1/2 to 2 days, so we can relaunch it every three days. As long as we are beating in in less than three days, we are able to keep running it as often as that. If your guild is taking too long, move down a tier. If you're beating it in hours, move up a tier.
Are you serious? What is not clear in my calculations about rewards?
But since you insist on talking about something else, I think Rebel_yell covered it just fine.
Example: Have our holotable tutor lady pop up and give them a talking to if they are entering into a tier that will crush their hopes and dreams. Each guild member should see this warning upon entering the raid for the first time since it was launched. Make sure they understand that this is higher level content and they just are not ready, but proceed if they want to. Give the option to dismiss her warning straight away, and disable the warning if the guild manages to defeat the tier in a timely fashion.
Indeed it would be very difficult to introduce content like this with tiers tuned for all player levels. Need to somehow manage players' expectations about what they think they should be able to do and what they are really capable of doing. With the HAAT raid, they punted on multi-level tuning and just gave us two levels: normal soul-destroying level, and heroic coming-of-age level. This was not well received; players asked for the more lower tiers, just so they could play the raid without it feeling like a hopeless slog. Players wanted to play it at an easier level even if the rewards were worthless.
Now they gave us the Sith raid with multi-level tuning so lower power players can participate in the raid before they are ready, earning worthless rewards upon completion. Oh, I guess this is not good enough either. Imagine the moaning if there were only two STR levels like HAAT.
-First, increase the rewards across the board (except for Traya shards maybe) and make them much closer to what the rewards were when they bumped it.
-Raise the starting cost in tickets like 50%
This gives you a raid that 1) provides valuable rewards so players want them and 2) isn't constantly running.
Have fun. On the day Sith raid is off...
Speak for yourself.
First off I spoke for myself, but used a dramatic element to express my thoughts.
Just look around of the excitement most people have from this raid - not much at all.
I have played a long time in Everquest at its prime. With real great and long raids. Some have been a very high skill level needed. But it was not one raid for 3 - 4 days. The longest boss I remember was the Queen of Air and Avatar of Earth - taking like 3 hours on first kill. But thats it! You only needed them to do once or twice for the key and no one ever returned for doing their loot.
Even those games were way more difficult to built up a raid team - they understood no one wants to sit night and day on the same boss. The mechanic basically makes you need a very certain line up and only than you do some real damage - thats why all lower guilds do not have either the line up or the damage and in the end sit days at the raid.
If you have fun with the great mechanic in p1 and p4 and enjoy the endless amount of hitpoints and think thats skill needed for bringing a specific group layout - than be it so! Its your good right. However I have the opinion of the majority and dislike this raid being a time sink. I dislike every day doing my 2.5m - 10m dmg and getting a crap reward after 3-4 days. But thats again my good right!
my 2cp
stuff like this is funny as heck to me.
If you have something to tell about the main topic - go for it. Let me inform you - its about the newest loved Sith raid
You completely dismissed TVF's point, and that's wrong.
You do not speak for me. You do not speak for TVF. You do not speak for leef. You especially don't speak for everyone. That is offensive to the people you claim to speak on who don't want you speaking for them.
Yes, it's a rhetorical technique. It's a bad and incredibly rude rhetorical technique that should be removed from your arsenal. As a technique in forum debate, it doesn't build bridges. It polarizes. It agitates those you just spoke for into opposing you more viciously, and only serves in preaching to the choir.
I am telling you to stop speaking for me.
lol tears. Tell us more about how you like the sith raid....
+ for this point if I understand what you mean. I see your message was heavily warped(or misunderstood). I hope you mean "majority" dont want to do that. And I agree, none of my guildies want to do that, and my friends from other guilds dont want to waste thier time for miserable rewards too. I dont know a single masochist as it seems. Lets hope for a rework. Maybe one day...
Thankfully you understood my post. Apparently English is my 5th language - so it becomes a little bit more difficult to precisely tell (or how in different languages its possible) the main point without being misunderstood. Of course if we go in details its never "everyone" and everyone speaks just for "himself alone" - but this simply didn't sound exciting for me.
So for the previous posters - i can just tell by my own that i think this raid is "rubbish".
Newest Sith Raid
-too high hp (x10 too much)
-random mechanic (commonly need to restart, if you try to have a good run)
-t6 have x3 hp of t7? and rewards of t7 is far superior (so much more work for less, that reminds me on cleaning women in hotels which i always leave a good tip!)
-resist mechanic is bad, bosses should be tmr immune and thats it (makes sense actually)
+cool characters
+cool graphic
+p2 and p3 are pretty fine (dont like the need of tenacity up in p3 or being it very random)
-even Traya is stunning foresight chars like jrey they fully dominate, so the conter mechanic in latest Sith/Anti Sith edition doesnt work (see Visas Marr - which doesnt work at all with a debuff on her, fighting Sith all have debuffs! Its simply just rubbish)
it's not getting reworked.
Powercreep will take care of most players their issues with the raid. Hopefully, because of the design of the raid people seem to dislike so much, we've got a long road ahead of us with gradually increasing scores.
The rancor became too easy too soon. Currently it might aswell be sim-able. I think the hAAT raid was pretty good in that regard. Took my guild a while before we could tackle it, with most of my guildies really disliking p1 (untill zkylo came along) and it took top players a long time before they were able the solo the entire raid.
Point being, just because it sucks now, doesn't mean it's a horrible raid. As i said in a previous comment in this thread, the health of non-heroic tiers makes for an unfun experience imo. The rewards don't help either, but that has nothing to do with the raid itself. People just rather player horrible content for great rewards than awesome content for horrible rewards. Unfortunately players still tend to say the content is horrible just because it isn't rewarding enough in their opinion. In general i think players blame the wrong thing for something they don't enjoy alot on this forum.
Yes mate, it is all about time. What is the most valuable thing in our lives? Right.
"Enormously bloated HP" - that is what I said previously too. The raid is not hard at all, it is just boring because of nerfed tactics and gigantic health points.
I dont know why you are so sure about it not getting a rework though. Do you have some kind of connection to devs, or another source of information or is it just a logic/intuition thing?
Obviously i could be wrong and i shouldn't have stated it as fact. Sorry about that. I do however think it's better to accept it won't get reworked and if by some miracle they actually do rework the raid being pleasantly suprised about that than hoping for a rework in vain.