It sure is quiet... Captain Rex's off topic continuation...

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Lol at “continue to suffer”
The Star Wars brand is not suffering.


That is subjective, the audience suffers when the franchise is about money. The company never suffers, they just move on.

Replies

  • Boo
    3383 posts Member
    Not necessarily true - Disney paid Lucas billions of $ for the franchise - a major investment in one of the worlds top franchises won't just get dropped in the toilet - like any business - they will make changes where needed to protect their investment and return profitability.

    Kennedy will likely be one of these changes.
  • Boo wrote: »
    Not necessarily true - Disney paid Lucas billions of $ for the franchise - a major investment in one of the worlds top franchises won't just get dropped in the toilet - like any business - they will make changes where needed to protect their investment and return profitability.

    Kennedy will likely be one of these changes.

    One can only hope Kennedy goes, if she is the true issue, and it seems like she is.
  • TVF
    9359 posts Member
    Lol you guys know she's making them tons of money right?
  • TVF wrote: »
    Lol you guys know she's making them tons of money right?

    And from a corporate standpoint, that's all that matters. From a fan standpoint, at least the older, wiser group, she is destroying the franchise. Look at how much h8 TLJ is getting.
  • TVF
    9359 posts Member
    edited June 2018
    TVF wrote: »
    Lol you guys know she's making them tons of money right?

    And from a corporate standpoint, that's all that matters.

    Correct, so therefore she is very unlikely to be fired.
    From a fan standpoint, at least the older, wiser group, she is destroying the franchise.

    Lol this is a ridiculous statement. How old are you? I'm mid-40s and I love the new movies. Your personal preference makes you neither older nor wiser.
    Look at how much h8 TLJ is getting.

    Welcome to the internet.
  • TVF wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Lol you guys know she's making them tons of money right?

    And from a corporate standpoint, that's all that matters.

    Correct, so therefore she is very unlikely to be fired.
    From a fan standpoint, at least the older, wiser group, she is destroying the franchise.

    Lol this is a ridiculous statement. How old are you? I'm mid-40s and I love the new movies.
    Look at how much h8 TLJ is getting.

    Welcome to the internet.

    Really? Some of the most die hard fans I know can't stand TFA or TLJ, and think TLJ is worse than TFA. These people were either going to see the OT when it was released or grew up only having 3 Star Wars films.
  • JohnAran
    306 posts Member
    As a « softcore » Star Wars fan, I admit that I don’t really understand the hate the new trilogy is getting. I’m liking it a lot too and really don’t see any major issue that wasn’t already there in previous movies.
    I don’t care about that feminism - sexism - Mary Sue - whatever thing. I don’t even know who makes the movies and know nothing about all the stories around. Don’t know about that social justice thing in the movies either.

    However I do think that some people are being a bit biased toward Solo. I’m a very easy to please viewer when it comes to movies, I can watch almost anything as long as it has some form of entertainment (from Gran Torino to transformers if you see what I mean), and even I didn’t like it at all.
    It’s honestly a first for me to go watch a movie in a theater and halfway throught, stop and look around thinking : « well, I think it’s just not doing it for me » and actually regretting paying for that.

    Why in your opinion makes it more for the hardcore fans ?

  • JohnAran wrote: »
    As a « softcore » Star Wars fan, I admit that I don’t really understand the hate the new trilogy is getting. I’m liking it a lot too and really don’t see any major issue that wasn’t already there in previous movies.
    I don’t care about that feminism - sexism - Mary Sue - whatever thing. I don’t even know who makes the movies and know nothing about all the stories around. Don’t know about that social justice thing in the movies either.

    However I do think that some people are being a bit biased toward Solo. I’m a very easy to please viewer when it comes to movies, I can watch almost anything as long as it has some form of entertainment (from Gran Torino to transformers if you see what I mean), and even I didn’t like it at all.
    It’s honestly a first for me to go watch a movie in a theater and halfway throught, stop and look around thinking : « well, I think it’s just not doing it for me » and actually regretting paying for that.

    Why in your opinion makes it more for the hardcore fans ?

    I am more of a fanboy, and I can't say I absolutely hate all the content. Both movies have points I enjoyed and points I hated. I didn't get the "It's Star Wars" impression.

    As far as modern issues that you stated, the general theme of what I'm reading is that those points are being fused into the story, which I don't think should be the case. It doesn't matter to me who is lead, what the percentage of the cast is you fill in the blank. I've had about enough with both sides, just leave people alone.

    I like watching movies, and will give just about any movie a chance. On their own, TFA and LJ are so-so, nothing I would rush out and drop $20 for. FA felt like a reboot of the original Star Wars, and not a continuation. LJ was better, IMHO but the internet seems to think it was worse, no biggie.

    As for the hardcore, old school fans, these are the ones that seem to be more vocal about the value of the movies. I'm not saying everyone over a certain age and has seen both of the movies have to hate them, and there are a few that like/love them, I'm just seeing more comments and videos leaning towards the negative side. I think a lot of the hate probably stems from the Expanded Universe, now legends, being thrown out. A smart move for Disney, so nothing has to be finely tuned as not to disrupt the space time continuum. It gives a blank slate for creativity. But from a fan base, having a whole aspect of ones childhood suddenly being thrown out can be frustrating.
  • TVF
    9359 posts Member
    TVF wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Lol you guys know she's making them tons of money right?

    And from a corporate standpoint, that's all that matters.

    Correct, so therefore she is very unlikely to be fired.
    From a fan standpoint, at least the older, wiser group, she is destroying the franchise.

    Lol this is a ridiculous statement. How old are you? I'm mid-40s and I love the new movies.
    Look at how much h8 TLJ is getting.

    Welcome to the internet.

    Really? Some of the most die hard fans I know can't stand TFA or TLJ, and think TLJ is worse than TFA. These people were either going to see the OT when it was released or grew up only having 3 Star Wars films.

    C'mon, you should understand sample size by now.
  • TVF wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Lol you guys know she's making them tons of money right?

    And from a corporate standpoint, that's all that matters.

    Correct, so therefore she is very unlikely to be fired.
    From a fan standpoint, at least the older, wiser group, she is destroying the franchise.

    Lol this is a ridiculous statement. How old are you? I'm mid-40s and I love the new movies.
    Look at how much h8 TLJ is getting.

    Welcome to the internet.

    Really? Some of the most die hard fans I know can't stand TFA or TLJ, and think TLJ is worse than TFA. These people were either going to see the OT when it was released or grew up only having 3 Star Wars films.

    C'mon, you should understand sample size by now.

    Sample size for a poll perhaps. People expressing their opinions on open forums, that is a bit different.
  • TVF
    9359 posts Member
    TVF wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Lol you guys know she's making them tons of money right?

    And from a corporate standpoint, that's all that matters.

    Correct, so therefore she is very unlikely to be fired.
    From a fan standpoint, at least the older, wiser group, she is destroying the franchise.

    Lol this is a ridiculous statement. How old are you? I'm mid-40s and I love the new movies.
    Look at how much h8 TLJ is getting.

    Welcome to the internet.

    Really? Some of the most die hard fans I know can't stand TFA or TLJ, and think TLJ is worse than TFA. These people were either going to see the OT when it was released or grew up only having 3 Star Wars films.

    C'mon, you should understand sample size by now.

    Sample size for a poll perhaps. People expressing their opinions on open forums, that is a bit different.

    You really think an open forum is going to be an accurate representation of public opinion?

    Ok.
  • Chucko_marek
    2281 posts Member
    edited June 2018
    TVF wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Lol you guys know she's making them tons of money right?

    And from a corporate standpoint, that's all that matters.

    Correct, so therefore she is very unlikely to be fired.
    From a fan standpoint, at least the older, wiser group, she is destroying the franchise.

    Lol this is a ridiculous statement. How old are you? I'm mid-40s and I love the new movies.
    Look at how much h8 TLJ is getting.

    Welcome to the internet.

    Really? Some of the most die hard fans I know can't stand TFA or TLJ, and think TLJ is worse than TFA. These people were either going to see the OT when it was released or grew up only having 3 Star Wars films.

    C'mon, you should understand sample size by now.

    Sample size for a poll perhaps. People expressing their opinions on open forums, that is a bit different.

    You really think an open forum is going to be an accurate representation of public opinion?

    Ok.

    I don't think a poll would be any better, since the population could be stacked for a specific outcome, that is to say, the people polled could be chosen from a specific demographic, which would skew the results, creating a bias. I wouldn't put much stock in polls, nor would I trust the general consensus of public forum, especially on the internet.
  • TVF
    9359 posts Member
    You seem to be making my point for me. You can't trust opinions on Disney SW here any more than you can by talking to your friends and family.
  • leef
    11268 posts Member
    i love how possessive star wars fans are.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • DatBoi
    3572 posts Member
    TVF wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Lol you guys know she's making them tons of money right?

    And from a corporate standpoint, that's all that matters.

    Correct, so therefore she is very unlikely to be fired.
    From a fan standpoint, at least the older, wiser group, she is destroying the franchise.

    Lol this is a ridiculous statement. How old are you? I'm mid-40s and I love the new movies.
    Look at how much h8 TLJ is getting.

    Welcome to the internet.

    Really? Some of the most die hard fans I know can't stand TFA or TLJ, and think TLJ is worse than TFA. These people were either going to see the OT when it was released or grew up only having 3 Star Wars films.

    C'mon, you should understand sample size by now.

    Sample size for a poll perhaps. People expressing their opinions on open forums, that is a bit different.

    You really think an open forum is going to be an accurate representation of public opinion?

    Ok.

    I don't think a poll would be any better, since the population could be stacked for a specific outcome, that is to say, the people polled could be chosen from a specific demographic, which would skew the results, creating a bias. I wouldn't put much stock in polls, nor would I trust the general consensus of public forum, especially on the internet.

    Are there many poorly executed polls? Yes. Does that mean that polls are an invalid or inherently flawed means of gauging public opinion? No.
  • TVF
    9359 posts Member
    Exactly right.
  • t0neg0d
    616 posts Member
    Best way of telling how the franchise is doing is to look at merchandise sales. Jump on google... look it up... no discussion needed. Pretty obvious that the new movies failed to capture thier audience in this capacity at all.
  • TVF
    9359 posts Member
    edited June 2018
    I don't know why anyone cares though. It's completely out of your control. Either we get new movies and other stuff, or we don't.
  • leef
    11268 posts Member
    t0neg0d wrote: »
    Best way of telling how the franchise is doing is to look at merchandise sales. Jump on google... look it up... no discussion needed. Pretty obvious that the new movies failed to capture thier audience in this capacity at all.

    i'm not that skilled in googling, can you provide a list of merchendise sales per year from 2000 to 2017 ?
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • Boo
    3383 posts Member
    The main issues with the new movies are:

    TFA - was a remake of ANH. Its a shame that it lacked original story, but introduced exciting new characters - yes Rey was a Mary Sue, but the reasoning for that was to be expanded upon.

    TLJ - here is the real issue. It threw away all set-ups TFA created. It destroyed the character of Luke Skywalker (Kennedy lied when she said that Disney/Lucasfilm would protect the characters Lucas created). he story was completely boring and poorly developed. Any interesting character developments were not followed through on - Rey continued to be a Mary Sue (actually made her more of a Mary Sue) and when an audience cannot relate to its hero - its poor story telling and a boring hero. SJW politics came into effect: Rose, and Pansexula Holdo. Not to mention every white male in the movie is dumped on (Kylo - whiney Emo Child; Hux - incompetent joke; Luke - grumpy old man). It failed to tie up plot holes such as Snoke and the first order's return from the ashes of the Empire. It also had a pointless plot.
    Overall the movie was boring, useless characters and destruction of characters that were promised to be protected and respected.
    Don't get me wrong, there were points I enjoyed about TLJ, its just the bad certainly outweighed the good.

    Politics - following the politics of TLJ - the need for a strong female lead went crazy. Its sad because I was excited to get a strong jedi female lead. In fact the fan mase was ready for that - as strong female characters in the EU were fan favs such as Mara Jade. Instead we got a boring Mary Sue with no character development - Rey. We then got Jynn Erso for Rogue One and Iden Versio for Battlefront 2 - it was just too much of a push from Lucasfilm to make all star wars leads female at the same time - it was just bad timing.

    Then we have Kennedy - bosting how most of the board at Lucasfilm are now a female majority. She also goes on to say she wants more female visual effect artists and a female director for a Star wars movie. She also wore a T-shirt stating "The Force is Female". She also admits being cvaled by many male professionals about jobs at Lucasfilm and not many females doing the same. She also recognizes that the majority of the fanbase are male, yet states she doesn't have to cater to men and instead wants to cater to women?? - who does she think buys all those star wars toys and lightsaber replicas??? Not many of the female friends - you can bet that! So merchandise sales are down - but that is not the only reason why.

    We have LGBTQ agendas being pushed - Lando and Holdo being Pansexual - Ok if Holdo is, but why change Lando - another beloved character (so now we have Han executed by his emo child, Luke turned Grumpy and out of character, Leia as Mary Poppins and Lando as Pansexual - what are you doing to the OT characters we all love?!!!!). C3P0 was gay, but no one had to say he was, he just was - so why the need to label Lando and Holdo??

    L3 - the SJW droid - droid rights??? Droids are programmed. Its like you laptop saying it should be free from you typing on it all day????? ****?!

    Why is it so great L3 is the first female droid????? She isn't the droid at the beginning of TPM is. And like I said, 3P0 was gay, so back in the 1970s we had a gay droid before a female - is that not diverse???

    All of this points to bad merchandising - who wants to buy L3 action figures etc???? or poor characters like Rey and Poe and porgs (don't get me started there) - No one!!!

    Solo - the fans have had enough. Despite the SJW and political agendas it may have been a good movie - I wont see it. As I am part of the boycott. It has failed in making money. because of the change of directors the cost of the movie was well over $250M - making back roughly that much is barely breaking even for the movie, as all the marketing costs go with that too - its a flop, no matter how Lucasfilm or Disney want to say it isn't - numbers don't lie.

    For me though - R1 was the best of the 4 movies by far.

    At the end of the day the franchise is suffering and Kennedy is at the helm and is the major reason for its decline (especially in regard to all these political agendas). SHe has to go and for Disney - she is the perfect fall guy.
  • JohnAran
    306 posts Member
    Boo your message is great and it explains a lot of the hate Star Wars got lately.

    I think it’s nice cause almost everything in it I 100% do not care about whatsoever, and most of it do not have any actual effect on the movies, and yet those are the reasons pushed to justify how bad they are supposed to be.

    For example, every single lead role in Star Wars were men in the first 6 movies, suddenly you have 3 movies with female role and it’s « agenda », « bad timing » and so on. What I get from most people talking about this is : doesn’t matter if lead is man or woman, so always put man please.

    If Rey was a man what would it change : nothing obviously. In fact that’s where i’ll join the criticism on the lack of character development.
    Same with the other women you cited. Them being female Has nothing to do with the quality of the movies/game.

    What’s the problem with Rose ? The movie would be better if she was not asian ? I can’t even understand that.

    Same with Kennedy’s life (which i know nothing about, didn’t even know the name before today), nothing to do with the movies at all. Same with character sexuality. I find it interesting that you are ok with C3PO being gay (i didn’t know that) and Not ok with Lando and Holdo being pan (i didn’t know that either). It’s not talked about in any of the movies and does not show anywhere so again, I don’t see how that’s relevant. Even if it was, unless you are intolerant, Lando being pan should not be a negative thing to you so it really doesn’t matter, especially in an scifi universe where pan can mean so much more than in real life right.

    I don’t understand the part about L3, i thought she was fun although over the top (Disney right...).

    But really in the end, outside of some rare criticism about the actual movies (plot, character development), there is not much.


    As for solo I really think that the movie is plain bad. It shows in the articles and reviews and such. I know i told my friends not to go see it, for example. That’s why it didn’t work i guess. Which is not the case for TFA ad TLJ.
    Rogue One i liked but I actually think that Jyn Erso wasn’t a good character. I liked Cassian and Chirrut much more. They had actual personalities unlike her.
  • TVF
    9359 posts Member
    JohnAran wrote: »
    Boo your message is great

    I thought the exact opposite.
  • JohnAran
    306 posts Member
    TVF wrote: »
    JohnAran wrote: »
    Boo your message is great

    I thought the exact opposite.

    I thought it was great cause it kinda summarized everything i disagree with. Didn’t think i would see all this in one message.
  • TVF
    9359 posts Member
    Ok.
  • TVF wrote: »
    You seem to be making my point for me. You can't trust opinions on Disney SW here any more than you can by talking to your friends and family.

    I'm not just going off what I see on this forum, or friends/ guild members. Seems to be everywhere.

    So, what makes TFA and TLJ such amazing films?
  • DatBoi wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Lol you guys know she's making them tons of money right?

    And from a corporate standpoint, that's all that matters.

    Correct, so therefore she is very unlikely to be fired.
    From a fan standpoint, at least the older, wiser group, she is destroying the franchise.

    Lol this is a ridiculous statement. How old are you? I'm mid-40s and I love the new movies.
    Look at how much h8 TLJ is getting.

    Welcome to the internet.

    Really? Some of the most die hard fans I know can't stand TFA or TLJ, and think TLJ is worse than TFA. These people were either going to see the OT when it was released or grew up only having 3 Star Wars films.

    C'mon, you should understand sample size by now.

    Sample size for a poll perhaps. People expressing their opinions on open forums, that is a bit different.

    You really think an open forum is going to be an accurate representation of public opinion?

    Ok.

    I don't think a poll would be any better, since the population could be stacked for a specific outcome, that is to say, the people polled could be chosen from a specific demographic, which would skew the results, creating a bias. I wouldn't put much stock in polls, nor would I trust the general consensus of public forum, especially on the internet.

    Are there many poorly executed polls? Yes. Does that mean that polls are an invalid or inherently flawed means of gauging public opinion? No.

    I'm not saying dismiss polls altogether, but take them with a grain of salt, since the questions can be worded to exact a certain outcome and the group being polled can be selected to reflect the same.
  • CaptainRex
    2634 posts Member
    TVF wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Lol you guys know she's making them tons of money right?

    And from a corporate standpoint, that's all that matters.

    Correct, so therefore she is very unlikely to be fired.
    From a fan standpoint, at least the older, wiser group, she is destroying the franchise.

    Lol this is a ridiculous statement. How old are you? I'm mid-40s and I love the new movies.
    Look at how much h8 TLJ is getting.

    Welcome to the internet.

    Really? Some of the most die hard fans I know can't stand TFA or TLJ, and think TLJ is worse than TFA. These people were either going to see the OT when it was released or grew up only having 3 Star Wars films.

    C'mon, you should understand sample size by now.

    Here's your sample size
    la_fan.jpeg

    ONLY Star Wars film to fall under 50%.
    #CloneHelmets4Life...VICTORY!!!! :smiley: "I don't like sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere."
  • Boo
    3383 posts Member
    JohnAran wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    JohnAran wrote: »
    Boo your message is great

    I thought the exact opposite.

    I thought it was great cause it kinda summarized everything i disagree with. Didn’t think i would see all this in one message.

    I don't think it would be a problem that there are female leads - again, like I said, I think the fan base was ready for it. If a male was cast in the part of Rey, I think it would get the same backlash from the fans, but only being a "Gary Stu" rather than a Mary Sue.

    The additional problem was the fact that she was female. Kennedy felt that the movies needed that (and they did) but rather making a strong character that the audience could connect with - we got this overpowered character that was boring. I think the "female agenda" was pushed too hard to make her "strong" compared to the Skywalkers (previous male heroes) who were already considered overpowered force user - which was explained. Rey is just powerful because she just is - and that is boring. Why couldn't the studio have given us an interesting character who struggles to find her power within the force and that the amount of power she has can be explained without breaking star wars lore/precedent on such matters?

    It is a known fact that a majority of star wars fans are male (I am not saying at all there are no female fans - of course there are, there are loads of them), but having a lead such as Rey being female was a great idea and refreshing change to make these new movies stand out - but we got female leads across the board with TFA, TLJ, R1 and BF2 - all at once for a franchise dominated by male fans. It was a hard pill to swallow for a lot of fans that could no longer find relativity in any genre of the franchise - particularly gamers (another industry dominated by men) in regard to BF2.

    Like I said - I was ok with 3P0 being gay - it actually adds to his character and he is likeable as that compliments his quirky character. But like I said there was no press release from Lucasfilm stating he was gay - however there were such press releases from Disney in regard to Holdo and Lando's pansexuality - so for the fans, they feel that an LGBTQ diverse agenda aka real life political issues are finding their way into a franchise they like, being rammed down their throats and taking away from the sci-fi escapism star wars is, or should I now say was.

    To top it off, kids these days see the Marvel movies - people with incredible super powers! Infinity War was action packed all the way through - that is what star wars is competing with in today's world. As a kid in comparison, I'd find star wars boring. Luke was now considered the most powerful Jedi ever - and it was a missed opportunity to show the true power of the force (that we keep hearing about - apparently in comparison the death star's ability to destroy a planet is insignificant).

    Additionally Luke's character was ruined - true fans grew up with the OT, and Kennedy promised to preserve and respect Lucas' characters, such as Luke - she didn't.

    ANH Luke - went headstrong into the detention area of the death star to save a princess he had never met

    ESB Luke - ignored the warning of both Kenobi and Yoda to go to Bespin to save their lives at the risk of his own

    ROTJ Luke - risked his own life to save his father (a murdering sith lord) from the darkside, a father he does not even know.

    Now we get to TLJ Luke - ignors the fact that the galaxy is in turmoil by the first Order, or that Han was murdered and cut himself of from the force because he tried to murder his own nephew in his sleep

    This is not Luke Skywalker and is certainly not any indication of preservation or respect to his character.

    TLJ was bad on so many levels because it flat out ignored all set-ups for plots and character development left by JJ Abrams. Yes the OT had different directors, but they were all working on one giant story already written by Lucas. This new trilogy seems to have each director that comes along make things up as they go along and the whole thing stinks.

    This is all a result of bad leadership at Lucasfilm...Kennedy. If she stays, Star Wars will sink further and further into the toilet. That is what the Solo Boycott is about. If Disney wants to salvage the investment in the franchise they need to send Kennedy packing and somehow show the fans they are getting the franchise back on track, preferably before Episode 9 or Episode 9 needs to be truly amazing, tie up lose plot points and character developements to draw the fans back in.

    Either way - Kennedy needs to go, if Disney can't see that by now...I have a bad feeling about the future of star wars.
  • Boo
    3383 posts Member
    Furthermore regarding Rose - she was a bad character. She had the most pointless things to say and also a pointless role to play in the movie. She was simply thrown in there as another female character that added to racial diversity. I feel bad because I don't care about those things - but Johnson should have given her a better role and better lines - maybe she would have been likeable.

    I feel bad for the actress - she has received so much hate from so called fans she has abandoned all social media presence. That is really sad, because whatever her character's failings are - that's not her fault. Blame Kennedy or Johnson for that, but not her. She was just an actress doing her job. If I were in her shoes I would have done the role too, I mean c'mon being cast in a star wars movie is pretty cool!
  • Boo
    3383 posts Member
    TVF wrote: »
    JohnAran wrote: »
    Boo your message is great

    I thought the exact opposite.

    Whether you liked my posts or not is irrelevant - I am not here to please you or anyone else, just making my point.

    The points I made in the post are real issues that is fracturing the fanbase, so whether you agree with me or not, doesn't matter. These issues are real and Solo's failure is proof of that.
This discussion has been closed.